Accountant Fees

ferger1

Just wondering what lads are paying there accountant to have there accounts sorted for the year?

Im farming part time, full time job, with approx. 25 cows and there followers, so just the normal run of the mill of stuff, nothing unusual.

Got a bill of 950 for year ending 2013, does anyone think this is excessive?

trg

Is it a case that you hand in all your books and records at a point in time during the year and you sign tax return later then get the bill?

Sounds dear IF your record keeping is good. If it's poor (not saying it is!) then it may not be too dear.

simx

ferger1 wrote: »

Just wondering what lads are paying there accountant to have there accounts sorted for the year?

Im farming part time, full time job, with approx. 25 cows and there followers, so just the normal run of the mill of stuff, nothing unusual.

Got a bill of 950 for year ending 2013, does anyone think this is excessive?

Very excessive

dh1985

ferger1 wrote: »

Just wondering what lads are paying there accountant to have there accounts sorted for the year?

Im farming part time, full time job, with approx. 25 cows and there followers, so just the normal run of the mill of stuff, nothing unusual.

Got a bill of 950 for year ending 2013, does anyone think this is excessive?

Have a similar size operation to yourself. Accountants fee is 300e per year for the last good few years. Wouldnt be great with having everything in order for him either

epfff

dh1985 wrote: »

Have a similar size operation to yourself. Accountants fee is 300e per year for the last good few years. Wouldnt be great with having everything in order for him either

800 here
Half pit together wjen given to him

viztopia

op - I think half your bill would be enough

ferger1

trg wrote: »

Is it a case that you hand in all your books and records at a point in time during the year and you sign tax return later then get the bill?

Sounds dear IF your record keeping is good. If it's poor (not saying it is!) then it may not be too dear.

Yeah everything put together during the year and then dropped in.

Not singing my own trumpet, but I would have everything in order, statements, invoices, cheque stubs, the accountant even commented this year that the accounts are fairly tidy

ferger1

dh1985 wrote: »

Have a similar size operation to yourself. Accountants fee is 300e per year for the last good few years. Wouldnt be great with having everything in order for him either

Holy fcuk, that sounds very reasonable...im paying three times that :eek:

Dunedin

viztopia wrote: »

op - I think half your bill would be enough

jaays, you wouldn't want my bill from IFAC so............ similar operation to OP and pay circa 1100e per year. might be time for a change.

ferger1

Dunedin wrote: »

jaays, you wouldn't want my bill from IFAC so............ similar operation to OP and pay circa 1100e per year. might be time for a change.

Think it might be time to tighten the belt and shop around

lakill Farm

know a reputable company specialising in farm accounts who could off up to 50% off and the reduced price frozen for 5 years.

On top of that they cover the full country. In the last week I have saw them in Cork, galway, Sligo/Mayo and Dublin :cool:

td5man

lakill Farm wrote: »

know a reputable company specialising in farm accounts who could off up to 50% off and the reduced price frozen for 5 years.

On top of that they cover the full country. In the last week I have saw them in Cork, galway, Sligo/Mayo and Dublin :cool:

That sounds great, who is this reputable company? ? 😄

Jonblack

lakill Farm wrote: »

know a reputable company specialising in farm accounts who could off up to 50% off and the reduced price frozen for 5 years.

On top of that they cover the full country. In the last week I have saw them in Cork, galway, Sligo/Mayo and Dublin :cool:

Thinking of using them this year . A little bit more than I am paying at present but seem to be getting more for my money. The value is in the service you get.

towzer2010

Dunedin wrote: »

jaays, you wouldn't want my bill from IFAC so............ similar operation to OP and pay circa 1100e per year. might be time for a change.

I'm with them as well with the same size operation and my bill is exactly half yours.

jimmy G M

lakill Farm wrote: »

know a reputable company specialising in farm accounts who could off up to 50% off and the reduced price frozen for 5 years.

On top of that they cover the full country. In the last week I have saw them in Cork, galway, Sligo/Mayo and Dublin :cool:

Did they have a tent at the Tulkamore show?

td5man

jimmy G M wrote: »

Did they have a tent at the Tulkamore show?

HAD :-)

rowanh

My girlfriend is a drama teacher, she went to an accountant who was looking for 800 quid per year of accounts, she found an online place that did it for 80 euro plus something like 30 euro for something else she needed done. I think there was a bit more work involved for her, she needed to send them an excel spreadsheet with her costs and income or something but might be worth looking into. I think she found it with minimal effort.

lakill Farm

jimmy G M wrote: »

Did they have a tent at the Tulkamore show?

Yes for some of the day, and they were at the ploughing championship for the last few years

lakill Farm

rowanh wrote: »

My girlfriend is a drama teacher, she went to an accountant who was looking for 800 quid per year of accounts, she found an online place that did it for 80 euro plus something like 30 euro for something else she needed done. I think there was a bit more work involved for her, she needed to send them an excel spreadsheet with her costs and income or something but might be worth looking into. I think she found it with minimal effort.

Ye €350 all in would be loads to do that, just send in a bag

lakill Farm

td5man wrote: »

That sounds great, who is this reputable company? ? 😄

Seeing you asked, Probooks Ltd

bobmalooka

You'd need to tell us exactly what you got for your money to make a judgement, it's important to remember anyone can call themselves an accountant so always check what qualifications they have (ACA,ACCA,CPA)

Anyone could throw together a set of accounts for you for €100 but are they tax efficient? Are they qualified to know if your accounts are compliant if Revenue audit them?

berettaman

Hi OP.
For what you are describing that sounds a bit much. If you have books and records together and you need a simple set of accounts and a tax return then €450-500 is what you are looking at.
If you have a larger operation you are looking at €600-800 plus VAT.

If you have terrible records there will always will be an extra charge for hassle.

Quick question, did you have them into the accountant on time? Some charge extra for dropping them in late at the height of the busy season.


Regards,

B.

ferger1

berettaman wrote: »

Hi OP.
For what you are describing that sounds a bit much. If you have books and records together and you need a simple set of accounts and a tax return then €450-500 is what you are looking at.
If you have a larger operation you are looking at €600-800 plus VAT.

If you have terrible records there will always will be an extra charge for hassle.

Quick question, did you have them into the accountant on time? Some charge extra for dropping them in late at the height of the busy season.


Regards,

B.

Two months prior to the deadline, realistically I could have got them in sooner.

By the sounds of things, im paying at least twice what I should be.

I think 500 all in is a fair enough price for a part time set up...id love to know what the big dairy lads are paying :cool:

lakill Farm

ferger1 wrote: »

Two months prior to the deadline, realistically I could have got them in sooner.

By the sounds of things, im paying at least twice what I should be.

I think 500 all in is a fair enough price for a part time set up...id love to know what the big dairy lads are paying :cool:

have a few 100 herd dairy lads paying around the €500

Kovu

€300 per year here. For both farm & house. They live right next to lakill too

lakill Farm

Kovu wrote: »

€300 per year here. For both farm & house. They live right next to lakill too

:eek:

you may send on them details by PM

Kovu

lakill Farm wrote: »

:eek:

you may send on them details by PM

Wha, ya afraid of a little competition?

lakill Farm

Kovu wrote: »

Wha, ya afraid of a little competition?

No , beat them in service, professionalism and fee

and im not a boring sod like most of them. :eek:

Farmer Pudsey

ferger1 wrote: »

Just wondering what lads are paying there accountant to have there accounts sorted for the year?

Im farming part time, full time job, with approx. 25 cows and there followers, so just the normal run of the mill of stuff, nothing unusual.

Got a bill of 950 for year ending 2013, does anyone think this is excessive?

Dunedin wrote: »

jaays, you wouldn't want my bill from IFAC so............ similar operation to OP and pay circa 1100e per year. might be time for a change.

I pay about 650 inc vat for that they do the farm (drystock) a little bit of capital gains and employer/employee tax as well. I just hand over all the reciepts and go through the cheques etc. Not cheap but not expensive either as I am picking there brains a bit as well.

For straigh forward accounts for small drystock operations anything over 500 is questionable.

Username John

Part-time farming here, and tis only a small operation.

Accountant gets an excel with all incomes, expenses, every year. Fairly straight forward accounts I'd say. Plus a few random emails through out the year with questions. Annual bill is ~400 + VAT (so ~500euro)

john8984

yes that seems very expensive. For the same type of operation I pay approx €400 per year for accounts.
Shop around and stay away from the big name accountancy firms they are always more expensive

viztopia

larkill farm - just so I can compare your prices to others, are you charging vat also?

foxy farmer

Wrote a cheque in the accountants office today. Got a call to drop in with it before the holidays at dinnertime. A large enough practice covering the southern counties.
€794+ vat €980.
My accounts are very straightforward and have them fairly well sorted when they go in. Punctuality mightnt be my strong point but still looks like there's a fair difference in fees being charged. Do they charge based on land valuations or what?

Farmer Pudsey

john8984 wrote: »

yes that seems very expensive. For the same type of operation I pay approx €400 per year for accounts.
Shop around and stay away from the big name accountancy firms they are always more expensive

I deal with FDC and I know lads with more straight forward operations with them getting there accounts done for 500 euro or less inc vat

sh1tstirrer

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

I deal with FBD and I know lads with more straight forward operations with them getting there accounts done for 500 euro or less inc vat

FBD?

Farmer Pudsey

sh1tstirrer wrote: »

FBD?

Sorry FDC:o

lakill Farm

viztopia wrote: »

larkill farm - just so I can compare your prices to others, are you charging vat also?

Yes vat inclusive prices

sh1tstirrer

I'm with IFAC, the recorder without fail will be missing something that she checked previously. This year it was two cheques that were cashed in early 2013, I keep photocopies of every cheque and she ticks them as she records them sure enough when I looked at them they were ticked. I think she does it to annoy me.

foxy farmer

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Sorry FDC:o

They're charging me nearly double what you're paying.
I know a few lads around here who use them. Must enquire what they're being charged.
I'm on my third accountant with them. First fella retired, second was shifted closer to home, however long this one will last.

lakill Farm

sh1tstirrer wrote: »

I'm with IFAC, the recorder without fail will be missing something that she checked previously. This year it was two cheques that were cashed in early 2013, I keep photocopies of every cheque and she ticks them as she records them sure enough when I looked at them they were ticked. I think she does it to annoy me.

Its so they look like they are busy doing a great job for you

No other reason

towzer2010

lakill Farm wrote: »

Its so they look like they are busy doing a great job for you

No other reason

Isn't that standard practice for accountants?????

lakill Farm

towzer2010 wrote: »

Isn't that standard practice for accountants?????

No. don't stereotype me please with what others do. That's like a member of the public saying all farmers are filthy rich in their new tractors and jeeps.

We set our fees with the client before the work starts. Freeze it for 5 years, At the price is the price

ferger1

foxy farmer wrote: »

They're charging me nearly double what you're paying.
I know a few lads around here who use them. Must enquire what they're being charged.
I'm on my third accountant with them. First fella retired, second was shifted closer to home, however long this one will last.

Wasn't going to name and shame, but its FDC who do up my accounts...must depend what part of the country your in!

viztopia

While comparing prices its important to also compare the person/firm doing the work. Any firm that is registered with a body be they chartered or certified will have to have the following at a minimum;

1) be qualified accountants
2) have professional indemnity insurance in case of claims by clients
3) undertake minimum amounts of study every year so they keep up to date
4) as they are registered they are regulated by a body which handles complaints and the accountants are subject to reviews
5) have training programmes in place for trainee staff

as previously stated by some one earlier in this thread anyone can call themselves an accountant as the term is not regulated. But I would like to ask people posting here, would you let any auld gob****e into your yard to wire the sheds and then risk a fire or worse? or would you let any cowboy out into the fields to do work and have them plough them up or knock down gates because they are careless? just to save a few euro in the short run?

I think we are all agreed that some of the prices that have been quoted seem excessive yet the firms providing these services are still in business so each to their own!

towzer2010

lakill Farm wrote: »

No. don't stereotype me please with what others do. That's like a member of the public saying all farmers are filthy rich in their new tractors and jeeps.

We set our fees with the client before the work starts. Freeze it for 5 years, At the price is the price

Unlike some I don't agree with stereotyping. It would be like a boards poster saying something like this

lakill Farm wrote: »

Lads all the civil servants in this country are the same , be they work for Dept of Agri, the local county council, the dept of Justice or the dept of Finance.

Most of them should get the P45, a shower of institutionalised pension suckers most of them. And they are always crying the poor mouth.

lakill Farm

towzer2010 wrote: »

Unlike some I don't agree with stereotyping. It would be like a boards poster saying something like this

Haha fecker

Farmer Pudsey

viztopia wrote: »

as previously stated by some one earlier in this thread anyone can call themselves an accountant as the term is not regulated. But I would like to ask people posting here, would you let any auld gob****e into your yard to wire the sheds and then risk a fire or worse? or would you let any cowboy out into the fields to do work and have them plough them up or knock down gates because they are careless? just to save a few euro in the short run?

QUOTE]

No I would not let any old gob****e, only electricians can wire and certify work now however if I had a socket or light to do I do it myself if the electrician was changing me through the nose.. On ploughing I would not let a lad rip me off either.

bobmalooka

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

viztopia wrote: »

as previously stated by some one earlier in this thread anyone can call themselves an accountant as the term is not regulated. But I would like to ask people posting here, would you let any auld gob****e into your yard to wire the sheds and then risk a fire or worse? or would you let any cowboy out into the fields to do work and have them plough them up or knock down gates because they are careless? just to save a few euro in the short run?

QUOTE]

No I would not let any old gob****e, only electricians can wire and certify work now however if I had a socket or light to do I do it myself if the electrician was changing me through the nose.. On ploughing I would not let a lad rip me off either.

Exactly, so stating prices without any details of who done the work (chartered accountant or local 'bookkeeper') and exactly what the work entailed, if the work is covered under indemnity insurance etc. is not an objective way of assessing if the prices are good/bad value.

Of course people need to make sure they aren't ripped off but from reading this thread it seems to me like people are more interested in a race to the lowest quote without any consideration for the service they get, like any kind of work contracted you need to balance the quality with the price.

The two questions anyone should ask their accountant is what value can they add to the business and what recommendations have they based on the accounts. Make sure the accountant is adding value to the farm and isn't just another expense.

td5man

bobmalooka wrote: »

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Exactly, so stating prices without any details of who done the work (chartered accountant or local 'bookkeeper') and exactly what the work entailed, if the work is covered under indemnity insurance etc. is not an objective way of assessing if the prices are good/bad value.

Of course people need to make sure they aren't ripped off but from reading this thread it seems to me like people are more interested in a race to the lowest quote without any consideration for the service they get, like any kind of work contracted you need to balance the quality with the price.

The two questions anyone should ask their accountant is what value can they add to the business and what recommendations have they based on the accounts. Make sure the accountant is adding value to the farm and isn't just another expense.

I was paying €1000-1500 for a very indifferent service, would have got a penalty from revenue only I contacted revenue against my accountant advice.
As soon as I got sorted with revenue I changed accountants ,he had been doing our books for 30+ years.

bobmalooka

td5man wrote: »

bobmalooka wrote: »

I was paying €1000-1500 for a very indifferent service, would have got a penalty from revenue only I contacted revenue against my accountant advice.
As soon as I got sorted with revenue I changed accountants ,he had been doing our books for 30+ years.

Good, sounds like he was taking the piss. Like I said, ask them what value are they adding to your business to justify the fee. There's no point paying €1000 if the work isn't up to scratch but likewise I wouldn't recommend people to look for someone who can promise to do it for €200 if its a shoddy service.

The electrician analogy someone used above sums it up, don't overpay but remember at the very bottom of the scale you get what you pay for.

Farmer Pudsey

bobmalooka wrote: »

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Exactly, so stating prices without any details of who done the work (chartered accountant or local 'bookkeeper') and exactly what the work entailed, if the work is covered under indemnity insurance etc. is not an objective way of assessing if the prices are good/bad value.

Of course people need to make sure they aren't ripped off but from reading this thread it seems to me like people are more interested in a race to the lowest quote without any consideration for the service they get, like any kind of work contracted you need to balance the quality with the price.

The two questions anyone should ask their accountant is what value can they add to the business and what recommendations have they based on the accounts. Make sure the accountant is adding value to the farm and isn't just another expense.

A lot of accounts are fairly simple, take a small suckler farm you have your sales of weanlings/stores and cull cows. There will be little in purchasses except replacements and a stockbull every 4-8 years. A bit of fertlizer, meal and a a silage contractor bill. Depreciation on machinery, car and maybe building's. After that little enough a drystock will have purchasses of cattle as well but not rocket science. In most cases a half a days work. 3-500 euro should cover it in 90% of cases. There may be losses to offset against PAYE income now and again.

Some accountants let on it is rocket science and if the get you a few hundred quid back that you should be doing handstands. One such said it to me once, i had to remind him that it was the way I ran the business that these things happened. I have seen lads paying way more than me to accountants for more straight forward accounts and I had to advice them on more beneficial methods of tax avoidance than spending 30K on a tractor for a 30 cow suckler operation.