**Spoilers** Christmas 2014 Special, 'Last Christmas'

pixelburp

So with opinion divided about the relative merits of Series 8, it ended with the appearance of "Santa Claus" and the internet goes ballistic Oh well, it was bound to happen sooner or later, I'm just completely unsure what to make of this. It could be daft and brilliant, it could be cringy - par for the course really with Xmas specials.

Android? Amnesiac? Another Time Lord? Either way, I really hope it's not the actual Santa. Humbug I say

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inRmxBxENOc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yge3X0HS6DE

The_Valeyard

Im bit worried they may ruin Santa for the younger kids, need to be careful.......


Still though, just over 24hours until more WHO!!!!!!!

yay

Busi_Girl08

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Im bit worried they may ruin Santa for the younger kids, need to be careful.......


Still though, just over 24hours until more WHO!!!!!!!

He's done some stupid things in the past, but I don't see him doing something that ridiculous. Something like that could end his tenure.

Nonetheless, MERRY DOCTOR WHO DAY, EVERYONE!!

Angron

Oh cool, guy from Misfits.

Busi_Girl08

And Tyrone's abusive ex from Coronation Street.

Meanwhile, Clara is being...ugh... in this episode.

Sonics2k

Bloody Danny Pink Wonderboy.

Busi_Girl08

Merry Inceptionmas, everyone!

Stark

Inception was less confusing than this.

Angron

Damn it, I'd gotten my hopes up that she was being written out.

Busi_Girl08

Is it still Deus ex Machina if it happens 75 times in one episode?

martingriff

Angron wrote: »

Damn it, I'd gotten my hopes up that she was being written out.

That was meant to be the ending but she then decided to stay on

that was awesome. i loved it. it was so funny and then so touching. oh it's all a bit dreamy weamy
lol

and santa was real in the end, maybe



i see now that they would have had to re write it yea. that would have been such a sad ending, it really got me

http://www.inquisitr.com/1645446/doctor-whos-clara-oswald-changes-mind-will-stay-for-first-half-of-season-9/

ebbsy

I thought it was good. The only other Xmas episode I enjoyed was Invasion, and that's going back a while now........

Axwell

Any minute now im going to wake up and realise it was all a dream and the Christmas Special hasnt been on yet, didnt rip of a load of films and was fairly meh....please let it be a dream!

WomanSkirtFan8

i thought it was really good too. I loved the whole idea of the Dream Crabs and the whole "are you still dreaming even when you're apparently awake?"

Also, loved seeing Dan Starkey playing someone else instead of Strax for a change.

On the whole, really good episode.

Angron

I didn't think it was bad, just kinda convoluted. I will hold that ending against it though.

Busi_Girl08

Oh god.

I have an ice cream headache...

Does anyone else hear birds chirping?

I liked the whole kids thing of "if you can't see it can't see you"!

and "you have a horror movie called alien? that's ... that's awful! no wonder everyone keeps invading you!"

matrim

I liked some of the dialogue and the interactions with Santa but thought the overall story was a bit weak

FloatingVoter

Back of a beermat job with a contract renewal for the sidekick thrown in. Aliens that are recycled Silence. A Santa that is going to reappear as the next Master. I'm just wondering if Nick Frost has signed for the gig.
Face it, anyone of you enjoy any part of that not including Santa v. the Doctor ?
Thought not....they may have to have a showdown.

Doctor DooM

Actually thought it was excellent. Spat a drink out at the alien bit!

Doctor DooM

Hang on...

I think the Doctor was on the planet where Clara tried to force him to save Danny. I think Danny dying was part of the dream. Thus, kids, thus Orson

B.A._Baracus

Thought it was a let down.

Manach

I was surprised at how it turned out and found it more confusing than normal in some places, but on balance I rather enjoyed it (especially compared to the poor ending of this season). But the best bit, agreeing with Dr. Doom, was the Alien line.

zanador

I enjoyed it and my 9 year old watched parts of it from behind his fingers which is always a good sign.

Capaldi is terrifying sometimes, then funny, then kind - he really is s phenomenal actor and for me is carrying the show. If they manage to get some good writing then it will be incredible!

Antar Bolaeisk

Very good episode, probably one of the best Christmas specials, shame they had to re-write the ending as it really was a dream too far at that stage and it was also a nice exit for Clara.

brianon

Loved it and am delighted to see Clara staying a little longer. Daughter (she is 8) loved it also.

ixoy

Thought it was one of the best of the Christmas episodes. They even tied in Santa nicely. Loved the alien reference, like many of you.

Why the Clara dislike though with some? I thought they fleshed her out very strongly this episode. Another season with her would, I believe, make her the longest running companion since its come back (although way off Jamie's run!).

Hashtag_HEEL

ixoy wrote: »

Another season with her would, I believe, make her the longest running companion since its come back (although way off Jamie's run!).

Yeah that makes sense.

Season 1 and 2 -Rose
Season 3- Martha
Season 4-Donna
Season 5- Amy
Season 6- Amy and Rory
Season 7- Amy and Rory (for the first half) Clara for the second half.
Season 8-Clara
Season 9-Clara

Sonics2k

ixoy wrote: »

Thought it was one of the best of the Christmas episodes. They even tied in Santa nicely. Loved the alien reference, like many of you.

Why the Clara dislike though with some? I thought they fleshed her out very strongly this episode. Another season with her would, I believe, make her the longest running companion since its come back (although way off Jamie's run!).

I actually quite liked Clara at the start, but I feel a lot of it has become a bit too much of the Clara Show lately, it started to do the same with Amy and Rory too.

All in all, it wasn't a bad episode and certainly had a few moments that were great, but it was an obvious Inception parody.

I also noticed that Doctor woke up in a place that looked exactly like where Clara attempted to throw away the keys, though that was also a dream.

B.A._Baracus

Sonics2k wrote: »

...

I also noticed that Doctor woke up in a place that looked exactly like where Clara attempted to throw away the keys, though that was also a dream.

...

Did not get that one bit.
What was the point? to annoy tease fans into thinking that

the whole latter part of the season was a dream

. It just came off as cheap.

pixelburp

Well, I have to say I thoroughly enjoyed that no end, definitely the strongest Christmas Episode in years. In places it more like a coda to the Series 8 finale if anything, getting some closure on events in that episode and the lies the Doctor / Clara told each other at the end. While yes, the second ending felt like an obvious reshoot to cater for a change of mind by Jenna Coleman, it also felt like a proper gelling of the Doctor and Clara as friends, both of them coming to terms with each other, and the stronger for it. The Doctor's innocent joy when in the sleigh was lovely too, just the right amount of warmth for the spikier, less 'cuddly' Doc

As to the plot, sure it was blatantly riffing not just on things like Aliens and Inception, it had the decency to at least point this out, courtesy of yet another killer line from Capaldi. Equally, I thought the subversion of Moffat's "Don't look/think/blink" mantra was nicely done, gently mocking the mechanic with its use of Christmas music.

It was also super dark, I was apprehensive about the inclusion of Santa Claus but without him this would have been a very dark, gloomy tale. In fact his presence was arguably the highlight, Nick Frost playing a blinder with the banter, sparring brilliantly with The Doctor. To the extent that I wouldn't mind seeing him again, however they managed to write it into the story.

The Series 8 finale left me cold and a bit humbug about things, this Xmas story really perked up my enthusiasm and now can't wait for the new run in 2015 - which, by the way, will be the 10th anniversary of the show's return.

Sonics2k

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

Did not get that one bit.
What was the point? to annoy tease fans into thinking that

the whole latter part of the season was a dream

. It just came off as cheap.

Spoiler boxes abound!

The pessimist in me suspects it could be because last season was not taken quite as well as previous seasons, eg Ecceleston/Tennant and so on. It would also potentially allow a change to finale, such as the Master not returning at all.

Then again it's Moffat and he could go anyway with it, potentially ignoring it completely or doing something at a later date.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Do we know for sure that Coleman changed her mind about staying at the last minute so they tacked that bit on the end?

She never actually confirmed she was leaving and it made the last episode of S8 all the more emotional because we just didn't know, and then again it seemed like the scene where she's old in the Christmas special was her goodbye and it was quite touching because again we just didn't know. The only time I heard her talk about it she said something along the lines of if you know I'm definitely coming back (or leaving) it kills the suspense.

Granted it could be read that way, they genuinely weren't sure if she was coming back or not but with filming starting in January and a few of the scripts and the overall arc of the next series plotted out it would seem they've known for quite a while she was staying?

Anyway... I loved this episode. Capaldi is just brilliant, he's so funny at times but it's like a subtle comedy, not like Smith's over the top "loud" comedy and some of the stuff with Santa was brilliant. I don't think we were meant to read anything into the fact that the Doctor may have woken up on the planet he was on with Clara and therefore all of the finale stuff never happened. As for the Clara being old stuff was meant to be her exit, I don't know, I think it could also be read as the Doctor's subconscious giving him that one last push to go back for her.

I'm glad that Clara is staying on for a while longer and I absolutely adore Coleman and Capaldi together however.... after my initial sadness after the last episode where it looked like she was gone I got to thinking about it and I was kind of okay with that ending, sad as it was, because it kind of fit with their entire relationship up to that point. Then when I kind of thought this Christmas episode was her last episode I was sad but again okay with her ending being the Doctor coming back to her 62 years later because it was a really lovely way to end it too. Basically what I'm saying is how the hell are they going to top either of those endings when she eventually does leave?

pixelburp

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Do we know for sure that Coleman changed her mind about staying at the last minute so they tacked that bit on the end?

We don't know for sure, but that last scene seemed so brutally plastered on, it's hard not to speculate that they initially wrote the story as Clara's last as they weren't 100% if she was staying, then tweaked the script when she decided her next move. It could have been done better tbh, it made the already convoluted script tip into excess imo. Not so much as to ruin the story, but just take the sheen off a little.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I'm glad that Clara is staying on for a while longer and I absolutely adore Coleman and Capaldi together however.... after my initial sadness after the last episode where it looked like she was gone I got to thinking about it and I was kind of okay with that ending, sad as it was, because it kind of fit with their entire relationship up to that point. Then when I kind of thought this Christmas episode was her last episode I was sad but again okay with her ending being the Doctor coming back to her 62 years later because it was a really lovely way to end it too. Basically what I'm saying is how the hell are they going to top either of those endings when she eventually does leave?

Perhaps she'll buck the trend of companions and simply leave to do better things? Usually companions just seem to 'go home', settle down and become generally dissatisfied with their lot 'cos it ain't travelling with the Doctor: it'd be nice if Clara left for a good reason and was happy to do so. It'd also suit the more character-focused arc of series 8 by downplaying the emotion a little.

The_Valeyard

I'd say she might leave half way during season 8 like Amy and Rory did during 7.

tritium

They basically ripped of the premise of an episode of the outer limits, spliced in bits from a few other movies and laughed at how cheeky they were being!

Not a bad episode but zero originality. If someone stole that much content from the BBC they'd likely sue the ass off them.

pixelburp

tritium wrote: »

They basically ripped of the premise of an episode of the outer limits, spliced in bits from a few other movies and laughed at how cheeky they were being!

Not a bad episode but zero originality. If someone stole that much content from the BBC they'd likely sue the ass off them.

I dunno, it wasn't so blatant as the Xmas episode that straight-up copied the plot of A Christmas Carol To be fair, Dr. Who has been nicking concepts and themes all the way back into the classic series; it was practically its modus operandi back in the 70s!

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

pixelburp wrote: »

I dunno, it wasn't so blatant as the Xmas episode that straight-up copied the plot of A Christmas Carol To be fair, Dr. Who has been nicking concepts and themes all the way back into the classic series; it was practically its modus operandi back in the 70s!

The one from a few years ago with the pilot was more than a little like A Matter of Life And Death too.

Doctor DooM

Yeah, I don't think giving out about the Christmas episodes for ripping stuff really works, they actually explicitly say they're doing it as a conceit.

BlitzKrieg

Sonics2k wrote: »

I also noticed that Doctor woke up in a place that looked exactly like where Clara attempted to throw away the keys, though that was also a dream.

he wakes up both times on the planet so yes in the reality at the end of the episode it was the lava planet

Doctor DooM

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

he wakes up both times on the planet so yes in the reality at the end of the episode it was the lava planet

Clara wasn't with him, she was in her own house, which might mean she never argued with him over Danny, or in fact that she might not have ever gotten that phone call... bet he's alive and thus Orson.

pixelburp

pixelburp wrote: »

We don't know for sure, but that last scene seemed so brutally plastered on, it's hard not to speculate that they initially wrote the story as Clara's last as they weren't 100% if she was staying, then tweaked the script when she decided her next move. It could have been done better tbh, it made the already convoluted script tip into excess imo. Not so much as to ruin the story, but just take the sheen off a little.

I would not blame her for not being sure if she would stay on, to be honest. Given the level of unwarranted total nerd rage towards her it must be hard to turn up for work everyday

B.A._Baracus

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

Did not get that one bit.
What was the point? to annoy tease fans into thinking that

the whole latter part of the season was a dream

. It just came off as cheap.

It worked for Dallas

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Deleted User wrote: »

I would not blame her for not being sure if she would stay on, to be honest. Given the level of unwarranted total nerd rage towards her it must be hard to turn up for work everyday

The reaction towards her is so weird. There seems to be no middle ground. People either really like her or despise her. I don't understand it myself especially since the Doctor changed. You can kind of understand people not liking her when she was with Matt Smith because the Ponds were so bizarrely popular but since Capaldi came on I think the character has improved immensely. Funny old world.

Doctor DooM

Personally I find Clara one of the more likable companions. I don't get the rage.

1) She's flawed. She lies and says stupid things sometimes. She might be the impossible girl but she's no mary sue like Rose who's perfect for no good reason. She's a good person though, under it all.

2) She's smart without being a rocket scientist (although it's kind of implied several times she's wasting time as a maths teacher as she's an actual genius. Shades of Peter Parker). Crazy mad ancient alien says I should stay in this box when monsters are around? I think I just might do that, instead of going TEEHEE and chasing after adventure.

3) She's strong- often a leader, sometimes to the point of pretending to actually be the Doctor- and often saves him- but never does she seem to rely on the "strong independant woman" or "cold bitch" stereotypes TV and movies always seem to rely on (Amy often came across as a nasty individual as there was a little bit of this to her).

I probably prefer Donna as a character to Clara (Donna really did come across as a normal person shouting "WHAT ARE YOU DOING" and being the Doctor's conscience and I loved that) but the one thing I don't think you can say about her is that she's not a good character. There's more meat on her bones than any other Nu who assistant at this point imo. I certainly don't think you can say she's not acted well either. So where's the problem?

Doctor DooM

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Personally I find Clara one of the more likable companions. I don't get the rage.

1) She's flawed. She lies and says stupid things sometimes. She might be the impossible girl but she's no mary sue like Rose who's perfect for no good reason. She's a good person though, under it all.

2) She's smart without being a rocket scientist (although it's kind of implied several times she's wasting time as a maths teacher as she's an actual genius. Shades of Peter Parker). Crazy mad ancient alien says I should stay in this box when monsters are around? I think I just might do that, instead of going TEEHEE and chasing after adventure.

3) She's strong- often a leader, sometimes to the point of pretending to actually be the Doctor- and often saves him- but never does she seem to rely on the "strong independant woman" or "cold bitch" stereotypes TV and movies always seem to rely on (Amy often came across as a nasty individual as there was a little bit of this to her).

I probably prefer Donna as a character to Clara (Donna really did come across as a normal person shouting "WHAT ARE YOU DOING" and being the Doctor's conscience and I loved that) but the one thing I don't think you can say about her is that she's not a good character. There's more meat on her bones than any other Nu who assistant at this point imo. I certainly don't think you can say she's not acted well either. So where's the problem?

Bingo. I like her as she reminds me of Donna (while being really different).

I found it hard to like Amy, as she was a bitch at times, but I always took from it that she was damaged by the Doctor not returning and making her parents think that she was a bit mad.

By her end run she had grown into a normal(ish) person

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Doctor DooM wrote: »

There's more meat on her bones than any other Nu who assistant at this point imo. I certainly don't think you can say she's not acted well either. So where's the problem?

I'm sure there are a lot of people with valid reasons for not warming to her but a lot of the hatred seems to stem from 1 - She's not Amy (which should have worn off by now) and 2 - It's called Doctor Who, not Clara. Which implies they're not interested in having a well developed companion and just want to watch the Doctor run about having adventures.

I think I've said this before but I didn't really like Matt Smith as the Doctor. His earlier episodes were okay but his entire run seemed a bit too childish for my tastes. I liked Clara when they brought her on board but I don't think she and Smith's doctor ever really clicked, probably not helped by the fact they never tried to make her anything other than a plot point for the Doctor to figure out. From the first proper scene Coleman and Capaldi had together I knew there was something completely different happening this series and I was glad of it. I can only assume a lot of people were not. For what it's worth I've seen a lot of people complain about Capaldi being too dark or too moody, so I suppose it's just different strokes for different folks.

I feel like Coleman and Capaldi are more on the same level acting wise whereas I always felt she was better than Smith and was really struggling against his manic performances. This series it feels more mature and more like a real relationship between two grown ups. There's more going on than just jumping about from scene to scene and lots of noise but not a lot really happening.

Doctor DooM

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I'm sure there are a lot of people with valid reasons for not warming to her but a lot of the hatred seems to stem from 1 - She's not Amy (which should have worn off by now) and 2 - It's called Doctor Who, not Clara. Which implies they're not interested in having a well developed companion and just want to watch the Doctor run about having adventures.

I think I've said this before but I didn't really like Matt Smith as the Doctor. His earlier episodes were okay but his entire run seemed a bit too childish for my tastes. I liked Clara when they brought her on board but I don't think she and Smith's doctor ever really clicked, probably not helped by the fact they never tried to make her anything other than a plot point for the Doctor to figure out. From the first proper scene Coleman and Capaldi had together I knew there was something completely different happening this series and I was glad of it. I can only assume a lot of people were not. For what it's worth I've seen a lot of people complain about Capaldi being too dark or too moody, so I suppose it's just different strokes for different folks.

I feel like Coleman and Capaldi are more on the same level acting wise whereas I always felt she was better than Smith and was really struggling against his manic performances. This series it feels more mature and more like a real relationship between two grown ups. There's more going on than just jumping about from scene to scene and lots of noise but not a lot really happening.

Perhaps what's happening here is people not being too happy about change in general. I guess possibly a lot of them are newer to Who and don't like the urban renewal we get every 3 or 4 years? Clara is replacing some people's first assistant after all.

I did like Smith, but when it was announced he was going I was not upset, because I'd felt that version of the character had really gone as far as it could have. He was right on the edge of self parody. It's a long time since Ecclestone and yes, a more serious doctor is great around now.

I agree totally Clara works well with Capaldi. I didn't like how S8 ended but with the bookend of the Christmas special the bitter taste of that's gone and I'm interested in what happens now.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Doctor DooM wrote: »

I agree totally Clara works well with Capaldi. I didn't like how S8 ended but with the bookend of the Christmas special the bitter taste of that's gone and I'm interested in what happens now.

I'm hoping the people speculating that the entire end of S8 was a dream are wrong. No offense to Danny Pink but I hope he stays dead.