Electricity total rip off wake up people!!!

CJmasgrande

A few years back the cost of electricity shots up blaming high oil prices.

So now we have oil has almost halved in price so where is a reduction in electricity costs?

L1011

We're now subsidising horribly inefficient "green" generation and the required, very expensive, fast-start gas turbine backups for when its not windy so unfortunately prices aren't going to fall much.

visual

Ask Fat Rabbit where is the savings

Forcing through wind turbines and guaranteed higher price for each watt produced and offsetting the higher running cost back on to the consumer.

It was bad enough that we pay one of the highest rates for power in EUROPE now with green power it will be higher again.

Wait till fuel prices rise then the power bills will sky rocket

CJmasgrande

It's amazing the way we all kick up over the water rates yet they cost a drop in the ocean compared to what we are being fleeced for power and nobody says boo

rameire

I run my electricity through my gas and my gas through my electricity, and I save a fortune

mikeym

The energy regulator is a joke if the electric companies want to raise the prices the regulator says ok and now that oil prices are low theres no reduction in price.

Btw they came up with the old price structure for the water charges which were a rip off. I have no faith in the energy regulator.

braddun

buy wind turbine



http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40%7CR40&_sacat=0&LH_BIN=1&_nkw=windturbine&_sop=1

Quazzie

braddun wrote: »

buy wind turbine



http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40%7CR40&_sacat=0&LH_BIN=1&_nkw=windturbine&_sop=1

And do what with it? I thought you couldn't seel back to the grid anymore.

CJmasgrande

mikeym wrote: »

The energy regulator is a joke if the electric companies want to raise the prices the regulator says ok and now that oil prices are low theres no reduction in price.

That's my whole point!

Can I lobby or at least contact the energy regulator office?

Luke92

rameire wrote: »

I run my electricity through my gas and my gas through my electricity, and I save a fortune

Just recently watched that episode and that made me lol so much!

I reckon you save over 200 pounds a year!

the groutch

normally i don't respond to threads with such idiotic over-reactionary titles, but you should know that Electric Ireland have cut their standard rate by 2.47%.

CJmasgrande

the groutch wrote: »

normally i don't respond to threads with such idiotic over-reactionary titles, but you should know that Electric Ireland have cut their standard rate by 2.47%.

What about the 40% price drop in oil?

the groutch

what about it? do you think that oil is the only cost involved in electricity generation and supply?

L1011

the groutch wrote: »

normally i don't respond to threads with such idiotic over-reactionary titles, but you should know that Electric Ireland have cut their standard rate by 2.47%.

Solely to cancel the increase in the PSO levy (to fund the unprofitable generators - many of which are not wind but are only required due to wind).

IrishHomer

the groutch wrote: »

what about it? do you think that oil is the only cost involved in electricity generation and supply?

No but rising oil races was the excuse for it shooting up few years back

TallGlass

the groutch wrote: »

what about it? do you think that oil is the only cost involved in electricity generation and supply?

Well why do the companies come out and say it why the prices are rising so fast. You know why, cause there talking out there anal.

delahuntv

CJmasgrande wrote: »

A few years back the cost of electricity shots up blaming high oil prices.

So now we have oil has almost halved in price so where is a reduction in electricity costs?

CJmasgrande wrote: »

It's amazing the way we all kick up over the water rates yet they cost a drop in the ocean compared to what we are being fleeced for power and nobody says boo

CJmasgrande wrote: »

What about the 40% price drop in oil?

Wow - maybe if you did a little investigation into how electricity is generated and the cost breakdown, you may have a little different attitude.

Firstly, less than 15% of generation capacity is done by fuel oils.

Secondly, oil is priced in dollars, so whilst the oil price in dollars has dropped from $105 to $62 in the past 6 months, in euro terms it dropped from €76 to €50 - a 34% drop.

Thirdly, only the raw oil price has dropped. In fact refinery costs for diesel have gone up as they do every winter. (only a certain amount of raw oil is easily converted into different fuels - if demand is higher, then the fuel has to be "manufactured" which is costly).

A litre of diesel before any taxes or duties and bought on open commodity market has gone from 55c (euro) in June to just over 44c today. (all prices can be got from any energy index such as bloomberg)

So less than 15% of generator capacity has seen 20% reduction on its fuel costs. Which if there were no other costs, would lead to a 3% reduction.

However generation, whilst the main cost, is not the only cost.

the power network of power cables bringing the power to your home, the billing systems, the repair crews, the maintaining of the power plants, the staff in the power plants etc etc. These costs don't change.


Natural gas, which is the main fuel for electricity generation in Ireland has been relatively steady in price since last year with just the odd spike.

delahuntv

IrishHomer wrote: »

No but rising oil races was the excuse for it shooting up few years back

Rising FUEL prices was the reason - falling fuel prices was also the reason why prices dropped 12% in 2010.

FUEL = Coal, Gas, Oil.

Gas prices have been stable over the past year.


edit - here's the breakdown of national electricity generation (on the back of your bill)

Coal - 18.4%
Gas - 44.1%
Peat - 6.5%
Renewables - 30.2%
Other including OIL - 0.8%


So LESS than 1% is generated by oil - I think that kills this argument dead!

CJmasgrande

delahuntv wrote: »

Rising FUEL prices was the reason - falling fuel prices was also the reason why prices dropped 12% in 2010.

FUEL = Coal, Gas, Oil.

Gas prices have been stable over the past year.


edit - here's the breakdown of national electricity generation (on the back of your bill)

Coal - 18.4%
Gas - 44.1%
Peat - 6.5%
Renewables - 30.2%
Other including OIL - 0.8%


So LESS than 1% is generated by oil - I think that kills this argument dead!

If you do a quick google you will see that all old media news reports of electricity price hikes within the past decade were blamed on rising oil prices!

delahuntv

CJmasgrande wrote: »

If you do a quick google you will see that all old media news reports of electricity price hikes within the past decade were blamed on rising oil prices!

You believe everything written in newspapers???

Back in 2007/8 Natural Gas prices spiked to record levels in tandem with oil. So whilst the media said Oil Prices, the truth was FUEL prices.

Please use google and do as much research as you wish.

CJmasgrande

It wasn't just on newspapers, TV and radio media also

nompere

CJmasgrande wrote: »

It wasn't just on newspapers, TV and radio media also

It was over 100 years ago that Mark Twain said "Never let the facts get in the way of a good story", and journalists of all sorts have been happily agreeing with him ever since.

delahuntv

CJmasgrande wrote: »

It wasn't just on newspapers, TV and radio media also

OK - Lets put it very simply.

Do you believe everything in the MEDIA?

Jaysus - last week if you believed the crap in the indo we were going to have a polar vortex, 3 feet of snow, 12 inches of rain and the world was going to end.

Oil e.g. Diesel is used in older type power plants, primarily in Russia & China. Most "fuel" power plants use natural gas.


The media will use a generic word for reports - for them Oil is a catch all word for fuel. The media really show their utter stupidity when then=y suggest that a 40% reduction in the dollar price of raw oil should lead to a near 40% reduction in the pump - its like says newsprint drops by 40% therefore a newspaper should drop 40%.

THAT is how stupid many media people are! The problem is some people believe the media!:eek:

Geuze

CJmasgrande wrote: »

A few years back the cost of electricity shots up blaming high oil prices.

So now we have oil has almost halved in price so where is a reduction in electricity costs?

There aren't many oil-fired power stations left in Irl.

So oil prices don't have much impact on electricity prices.

mikeym

Labour Energy Minister call for an end to Surcharges on Pre Pay Electricity.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/white-calls-for-end-of-surcharging-on-pay-as-you-go-electricity-655543.html

The Energy Minister Alex White has said surcharging pay-as-you-go electricity customers is "not acceptable" and should be ended.
White was commenting after the Money Advice and Budgeting Service said the charge of between 2 and 5% was a "shameful rip-off of the most financially vulnerable consumers".
MABS added the charges have only begun appearing in the past year and only half of the shops which add on the energy bills display signs warning bill-payers.

I know theres a difference between Pre Pay Electricity and Bill Pay but those on low incomes were aggressively targeted by smart ad campaigns and sales people calling to the door offering Pre Pay Electricity without the bill.

brian_gall85

The minister should start by trying to get some legislation together that stops the providers reducing the retailers margin to a minus figure....BEFORE the cost of running and maintaining the machines involved is taken into consideration.

braddun

cfl or led lamps


buy plug strips turn off plugs at night

INPUT INNPUT

delahuntv wrote: »

Natural gas, which is the main fuel for electricity generation in Ireland has been relatively steady in price since last year with just the odd spike.

Vayu (supplier of 20% of Irelands Gas) report out the other day had prices down 42% during the summer and 22% now.

Summary of the report here.

irishtimes.com/business/energy-and-resources/wholesale-natural-gas-prices-fall-27-in-2014-1.2050523

Either the report is bullsh1t or every post in this thread is.

Meanwhile, wholesale electricity prices in the Irish market were 14 per cent lower on average in 2014 than they were the previous year. Electricity generated from oil and gas plants is expected to become cheaper to produce in 2014 and could feed through to wholesale electricity prices.

Hmm, Have they? I'm in a 12 month contract so haven't been following.

delahuntv

http://www.infomine.com/investment/metal-prices/natural-gas/1-year/

yep, most second rate journalists write bs without checking ALL pertinent facts.

Price averaged about $3.80 -$4.50 most of the year. It did drop suddenly 3 weeks ago and that is great.

problem is journalists will take a short 2 days spike (mid feb to over $6) and compare it to the lowest price of the year. Then on top of that they never ever take into account exchange rate movement.

They then write an article and people belive the bs cos people generally never check for themselves.

except for the very recent drop, and the very short term spike, price in euro has been quite steady until early dec.

CJmasgrande

Why aren’t our electricity and gas bills coming down?
http://jrnl.ie/1879552

delahuntv

CJmasgrande wrote: »

Why aren’t our electricity and gas bills coming down?
http://jrnl.ie/1879552

again, you are believeing a second rate journalist who has doen ZERO and I meanZERO research and just wrote a hyeterical piece of sh1te becasue its the fashion.

Gas prices started to fall in December - total price fall to date for UK gas is 16% - yes 16%.

less than 0.75% of electricity is generated by oil in Ireland - that's almost ZERO ! ARe journalist soooo stupid as not to do such basic reasearch as to read their own bills! - yes, its printed there for even you to see.

A 16% reduction in Gas, assuming it stays down, should lead to a price reduction of 2%-4% at some stage

scanlanavia

Given that Centrica dropped gas pricesbin UK for British Gas by 5% and Scottish Power followed today with 4.8%, logically this means Centrica Ireland (aka Bord Gais) and irish energy regulators will look into it... and in 6 months probably reduce Gais by 1.8%..... wouldn't that be a typical likelihood.

So Of Course, Energy prices here are well above what they should be. Energy Cartel are all earning obscene profits from hard pressed consumers and business.
Government has vested interest in high energy prices thereby maximising related VAT, Pso and carbon taxes... So explains why they arent too bothered.

lower energy costs surely results in lower costs to business and households.... but that view flies in the face of successive government policy who prefer to cuddle up with the cosy energy cartel

keithclancy

scanlanavia wrote: »

Given that Centrica dropped gas pricesbin UK for British Gas by 5% and Scottish Power followed today with 4.8%, logically this means Centrica Ireland (aka Bord Gais) and irish energy regulators will look into it... and in 6 months probably reduce Gais by 1.8%..... wouldn't that be a typical likelihood.

So Of Course, Energy prices here are well above what they should be. Energy Cartel are all earning obscene profits from hard pressed consumers and business.
Government has vested interest in high energy prices thereby maximising related VAT, Pso and carbon taxes... So explains why they arent too bothered.

lower energy costs surely results in lower costs to business and households.... but that view flies in the face of successive government policy who prefer to cuddle up with the cosy energy cartel

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/552806/UK-gas-bills-soar-plummet-Europe

SoapMcTavish

Luke92 wrote: »

Just recently watched that episode and that made me lol so much!

I reckon you save over 200 pounds a year!

Episode of what ?

delahuntv

scanlanavia wrote: »

Given that Centrica dropped gas pricesbin UK for British Gas by 5% and Scottish Power followed today with 4.8%, logically this means Centrica Ireland (aka Bord Gais) and irish energy regulators will look into it... and in 6 months probably reduce Gais by 1.8%..... wouldn't that be a typical likelihood.

Current new reduced standard rate for British Gas = 6.82c (5.26p)

Current standard rate for Bord Gais Energy = 6.1c

Up to 12% discounts available off standard rate of Bord Gais too.

Electricity in UK is also av. 20c per kwh - that's substantially higher than rates here.

The Brits will have to drop another 15% to get to current Irish prices.


For consumers here - if you are not on a discount, you deserve a slap - takes 2 minutes to switch, and then put a reminder in your phone fo this time next year to switch again.

Tony EH

CJmasgrande wrote: »

It's amazing the way we all kick up over the water rates yet they cost a drop in the ocean compared to what we are being fleeced for power and nobody says boo

It's too fücking late to do anything about the electricity prices, the shower that run it, or the toothless regulator that gives in to their every demand for a price hike.

THAT'S WHY PEOPLE ARE KICKING UP ABOUT NEW WATER CHARGES AND A NEW QUANGO TO EXTORT THE MONEY FROM US.

delahuntv

Tony EH wrote: »

It's too fücking late to do anything about the electricity prices, the shower that run it, or the toothless regulator that gives in to their every demand for a price hike.

or too many people beieve the crap printed in the gutter press?

also, price regulation is the MAX they can charge - a tiny bit of shopjg around that will take 2 inutes will get you 15% discount.

But SOOOO many people are far too lazy to do that, yet will spend hours whining about the price - I just never get that!

keithclancy

Tony EH wrote: »

It's too fücking late to do anything about the electricity prices, the shower that run it, or the toothless regulator that gives in to their every demand for a price hike.

THAT'S WHY PEOPLE ARE KICKING UP ABOUT NEW WATER CHARGES AND A NEW QUANGO TO EXTORT THE MONEY FROM US.

De-Regulation and competition reduced the cost of Energy in Ireland.

Before you were just stuck with Bord Gais or ESB.

Tony EH

Rubbish.

L1011

Tony EH wrote: »

Rubbish.

Can you actually refute that in an adult manner, rather than just one word?

scanlanavia

well well well..... lo and behold : Centrica Ireland have announced a reduction

http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2015/0122/674854-bord-gais-energy/

wasnt that timely !

BUT the price of its gas unit is to go down by 3.5% while the unit price of electricity is to be lowered by 2.5%.

So there you go... if it goes down by 5% in UK, then why only 3.5% in this place//
Centrica... you are the same company ...
Can someone explain where Centrica Ireland are tucking awy the 1.5%.

The Electricity Price drop is only a token gesture ..
Centrica Ireland ( Bord Gais ) are playing old semi state game..

Yes I've switched too..... the annual switching game.... if we have real competition we wouldnt need the switching nonsense..
Not everyone has the time to be comparing deliberately confused enegy bundles by all of them

Waerobic Woxajack

It's a cod. Despite years of recession when prices as supposed to fall, prices for electricity and everything (look at the prices for bus trips too and the like) have gone up drastically. This is because we are subsidising the politicians via VAT, insurance industry, greedy oil suppliers (who get it for cheap), etc., etc. Enough is enough and this ripoff culture needs to end as it is what caused things to go bellyup here in the first place.

SpaceTime

Look: the oil prices went down and the energy companies have to spend an absolute fortune readjusting their billing systems! So, you'll just have to pay more.

You can't expect the poor people at those companies to reprogramme their highly complicated billing systems. It will take thousands of people hundreds of hours!

"Each 1 and 0 has to be carefully adjusted by a team of experts using cutting edge technology. This is a very expensive and difficult process." Said a spokesperson for FakeElectric - Ireland's most satirical energy company.

....

I'm not in a very generous mood about those power companies. The prices seem to always manage to go up immediately yet take months/years to pass on savings when prices drop again.

scanlanavia

I wish I could share your sense of humour though. I'm well gone beyond that... with rage..
The Fake Energy Regulator is a Fake and might as well be made redundant as it's a toothless, useless function.
It doesn't even have jurisdiction over Price.

Shut that Quango too... because it doesn't work.
Maybe a free for all in energy market might work better without the heavy hand of "useless" government regulation which we also pay for by the way in our bills.

What is a PSO obligation.... don't we fund Public Service enough in our tax bill

now where's my candle ?

L1011

scanlanavia wrote: »

Maybe a free for all in energy market might work better wight the heavy hand of useless government regulatiom which we also pay for by the way in our bills.

Look at the UK - it doesn't work.

scanlanavia wrote: »

What is a PSO obligation.... don't we fund Public Service enough in our tax bill

Its an utter con-job to subsidise greenwashing, that's what it is.

scanlanavia

5 out of 6 energy providers in the UK have announced reductions of between 4% and 5%.. What's keeping them all here. Only bord gais so far... it must have killed them poor souls
.... other's still contemplating

delahuntv

scanlanavia wrote: »

5 out of 6 energy providers in the UK have announced reductions of between 4% and 5%.. What's keeping them all here. Only bord gais so far... it must have killed them poor souls
.... other's still contemplating

check their prices - very easy to reduce when you charge far higher prices.

But reductions will come and in any case, if you are not on a discounted plan, you are throwing money away. Takes less than 5 minutes to get up to 16% reduction.

efb

scanlanavia wrote: »

5 out of 6 energy providers in the UK have announced reductions of between 4% and 5%.. What's keeping them all here. Only bord gais so far... it must have killed them poor souls
.... other's still contemplating

ELECTRIC IRELAND reduced theirs before Xmas

efb

I was with BGE now with Electric Ireland.switch and save folks

CJmasgrande

I received this reply from energy regulators office FYI:


Thank you for contacting the Commission for Energy Regulation.

In relation to your query, we would highlight, that due to strong competition among suppliers, the Irish electricity market being de-regulated since April 2011. As a result of this the CER does not regulate the electricity prices in the domestic electricity market i.e. suppliers set their own prices without prior approval from the CER. Prior to April 2011 the CER did regulate the domestic electricity price set by Electric Ireland. When deciding on the prices, the CER allowed only efficient costs to be passed through in their tariffs. As part of this, the price electric Ireland purchased electricity on the wholesale market was taken into consideration. The wholesale price for electricity is primarily driven by international fuel prices and where there were increases in the fuel prices this would feed through to the price for electricity. However, fuel prices are only one component of the electricity price and the link between the two is not as direct and immediate as it may appear.

With regards to electricity, there are number of fuel sources that contribute to the electricity generated in Ireland. Each year the CER publishes a document showing the contribution of each energy source to the overall fuel mix in the wholesale electricity market. The latest document show's the fuel mix for 2013 (see - http://www.cer.ie/docs/000414/CER14297%20CER%20Fuel%20Mix%20Disclosure%202013%20Information%20Document%20(1).pdf )and as can be seen oil was not used to produce electricity in Ireland in 2013. As can be seen from the document, gas had the largest contribution to the electricity generated at 44%.

In relation to gas there does tend to be a link in the international fuel markets between oil and gas prices, but this link has weakened over recent years. The majority of the gas supplied in Ireland is imported from Great Britain and it is the price there that determines the price of gas in Ireland. There are a number of websites that provide daily updates on the price of gas in Great Britain, such as:

www.theice.com
www.bloomberg.com
www.reuters.com
www.icis.com
www.platts.com

In relation to how international fuel prices feed through to the price paid by consumers, it is important to highlight that many electricity suppliers will enter into contracts with generators to purchase some of the electricity they supply to customers up to two years in advance. International fuel prices, including gas, are extremely variable and fluctuate over time. Therefore, by constantly purchasing some of the electricity they will supply ahead of time they reduce the risk of exposure to sudden increases in wholesale electricity prices. What this also means is that it takes longer for changes in international fuel prices, including drops in the price, to filter through to the price paid by consumers in Ireland.

It is expected that the changes in international fuel prices will feed through to electricity prices, although this may take some time due to the hedging of purchases conducted by electricity suppliers. We would highlight that there are considerable savings to be made by switching suppliers, with many suppliers offering significant discounts to new customers. The CER would encourage customers to shop around among energy suppliers to get the best possible price and service deals.

I hope this explains things for you and if we can be of any further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact us.

_Jumper_

scanlanavia wrote: »

5 out of 6 energy providers in the UK have announced reductions of between 4% and 5%.. What's keeping them all here. Only bord gais so far... it must have killed them poor souls
.... other's still contemplating

The Bord Gais Centrica reduction (which doesn't kick in until 16th March) still leaves them more expensive than every other providers prices available today.

http://www.moneyguideireland.com/category/electricity-charges

Great site that^^