Energy healing / Bio healing / Reiki

Yurt2

Maybe it's just me but I've noticed a preponderance of people (from facebook and among friends of friends and relatives) advocating these methods for all sorts of ailments.

Does anyone here engage with these alternative therapies and genuinely believe they're beneficial?

I personally believe people are attracted to these psuedo sciences as people like the thought of a semi mystical oriental solution to their complex medical problems rather than deal with the truth of what it takes to get better. I believe there is a sort of placebo effect and cognitive dissonance going on with people who espouse these solutions as opposed to traditional medicine.

I also think it's ethically wrong for people offering these services to genuinely ill and desperate people for money, when deep down the person offering it must know it's quackery.

supersean1999

Personally it seems a load of bullsh** , there is nothing a good ride won't cure,

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

It's all akin to voodoo.

bodice ripper

Can't we just merge this with the astrology thread into one massive horse**** mega thread?

Volvoair

if you want to hand over cash, to some cute hoor waving his/her hands in the air over you .....feel free to do so.

Littlekittylou

Yurt! wrote: »

Maybe it's just me but I've noticed a preponderance of people (from facebook and among friends of friends and relatives) advocating these methods for all sorts of ailments.

Does anyone here engage with these alternative therapies and genuinely believe they're beneficial?

I personally believe people are attracted to these psuedo sciences as people like the thought of a semi mystical oriental solution to their complex medical problems rather than deal with the truth of what it takes to get better. I believe there is a sort of placebo effect and cognitive dissonance going on with people who espouse these solutions as opposed to traditional medicine.

I also think it's ethically wrong for people offering these services to genuinely ill and desperate people for money, when deep down the person offering it must know it's quackery.

I do reiki.

My thinking is these things work for reasons other than the ones that are given.

Reiki involves laying your hands on someone and that person stays lying down and quiet while you do. I think the benefits in how you feel are to do with the human contact and simply staying put quietly for an hour plus the placebo. It's relaxing which is beneficial in itself.

I don't do it for other people just myself. Well i would do it for friends if they asked etc but I wouldn't take money or anything or make any claims about it.

I also did a massage course. I think it works in a similar way. It works to relax you.
It it has helped my mind etc.

I believe in ' quakery'. I believe in vibes, energy and a lot more.

But you shouldn't bring money into it. Nor should you really bring others into it.

What I do I do for me I don't take advantage of others.

I am quite flakey I know.

Littlekittylou

I bet you guys don't believe in tantric sex and soulmates neither ! Ah yis are missing out!

bodice ripper

I saw your name as the latest post, and knew it would be pro reiki. I must be psychic.

Akrasia

One thing that really bugs me is that there aren't any robot shops in my town, but there are quacks and bullsh1t merchants on every corner

Where's my robot damnit!

Kristopherus

Littlekittylou wrote: »

I bet you guys don't believe in tantric sex and soulmates neither ! Ah yis are missing out!

Do you have to have a degree for that?:D

Littlekittylou

Akrasia wrote: »

One thing that really bugs me is that there aren't any robot shops in my town, but there are quacks and bullsh1t merchants on every corner

Where's my robot damnit!

China or India probably

Hey I am all for more robot shops too!

PSYCHIC VAMPIRE ROBOTS!

corner of hells

Littlekittylou wrote: »

China or India probably

Hey I am all for more robot shops too!

PSYCHIC VAMPIRE ROBOTS!

With unicorns and dinosaurs.

Littlekittylou

corner of hells wrote: »

With unicorns and dinosaurs.

YES!!!!

corner of hells

Littlekittylou wrote: »

I do reiki.

My thinking is these things work for reasons other than the ones that are given.

Reiki involves laying your hands on someone and that person stays lying down and quiet while you do. I think the benefits in how you feel are to do with the human contact and simply staying put quietly for an hour plus the placebo. It's relaxing which is beneficial in itself.

I don't do it for other people just myself. Well i would do it for friends if they asked etc but I wouldn't take money or anything or make any claims about it.

I also did a massage course. I think it works in a similar way. It works to relax you.
It it has helped my mind etc.

I believe in ' quakery'. I believe in vibes, energy and a lot more.

But you shouldn't bring money into it. Nor should you really bring others into it.

What I do I do for me I don't take advantage of others.

I am quite flakey I know.

I was in a stabilisation service for addicts before while on a college placement , meditation and reiki was practiced there , by the end of my placement I was addicted to both.

The_Valeyard

I do not do any of the above,


But I do meditate from time to time, think it can have a very calming effect and centre a person. It's one of the ways I use to release stress or tension.

pharmaton

I grew up in a quiet, spiritually centred family albeit tempered and grounded. I'd be a fan of people like Eckhart Tolle and Buddhist/eastern philosophy, so meditation would have been a central part of my daily activities right through my late teens to late twenties.
I'm trying to get back into it lately purely for the sense of quiet it provides. Mindfulness is all the rage right now and I imagine reiki and other alternative methods of healing have at their core a similar philosophy or understanding, I just think its at arms length with what is considered beneficial these days.

Yurt2

Meditation I get, controlling your breathing and calming your body and mind. But someone claiming they can control your energy flows, GTFO. That's pure psychological manipulation.

Magico Gonzalez

conmen, pure and simple.

pharmaton

Yurt! wrote: »

Meditation I get, controlling your breathing and calming your body and mind. But someone claiming they can control your energy flows, GTFO. That's pure psychological manipulation.

I was under the impression psychological manipulation can be very beneficial when done right

Tail Docker

Littlekittylou wrote: »

I do reiki.

My thinking is these things work for reasons other than the ones that are given.

Reiki involves laying your hands on someone and that person stays lying down and quiet while you do. I think the benefits in how you feel are to do with the human contact and simply staying put quietly for an hour plus the placebo. It's relaxing which is beneficial in itself.

I don't do it for other people just myself. Well i would do it for friends if they asked etc but I wouldn't take money or anything or make any claims about it.

I also did a massage course. I think it works in a similar way. It works to relax you.
It it has helped my mind etc.

I believe in ' quakery'. I believe in vibes, energy and a lot more.

But you shouldn't bring money into it. Nor should you really bring others into it.

What I do I do for me I don't take advantage of others.

I am quite flakey I know.

Yup, I'm quite flakey too. Flakey is grand, it's the non flakey ones that do the harm.

TheBeardedLady

One of my private students here does energy healing and told me in all seriousness that if I need some healing I was to send her a Whatsapp and she'd administer it from wherever she was and I burst my ****e laughing in her face presuming she was joking. Awkward.

Yurt2

pharmaton wrote: »

I was under the impression psychogical manipulation can be very beneficial when done right

If an external agent (the practitioner) is claiming that they are the source of the healing, then that's a temporary placebo and likely causes harm in the long run. I'm sure if I handed over 50 or 70 quid to some guru to heal me with his hands I'd come out saying how beneficial it was, because I'd feel like a prize plum otherwise.

pharmaton

Yurt! wrote: »

If an external agent (the practitioner) is claiming that they are the source of the healing, then that's a temporary placebo and likely causes harm in the long run. I'm sure if I handed over 50 or 70 quid to some guru to heal me with his hands I'd come out saying how beneficial it was, because I'd feel like a prize plum otherwise.

I wasn't referring to methods like reiki or energy healing, things like CBT and positive reinforcement or hypnosis and the like are all methods of psychological manipulation, there's nothing malicious or intentionally harmful about them as a way of reprogramming negative thought patterns and they can be beneficial tools which help people overcome issues like anxiety or depression, or create more positve attitudes generally which themselves are helpful in the long run. It's the basis of meditation too.

donegaLroad

This is an excerpt from a documentary by Lawrence Blair, called Ring of Fire; an Indonessian Odyssey.

It is about a healer from Indonesia who uses a power which he claims to be able to generate from inside his body, which he uses for healing. He calls this power 'Chi'. Its worth the 10 minutes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3F3ovb2kZ9Q

The problem with these so-called therapies is that any old nutjob can refer to themselves as a therapist and manipulate the vulnerable into confiding to them, or into handing over money for quackery.

At least with a mainstream psychologist offering CBT (for example), you know they have some qualification other than delusion and a desire to feel important.

I know a completely poisonous person, one who has never kept a confidence to himself and who is one of the most vindictive and spiteful people I've ever met. He has a business where he refers to himself as an holistic therapist and offers a range of crap like crystal therapy or reiki to the credulous. There is nothing anyone can legally do to stop him, even though he repeats the personal tragedies his 'clients' confide in him for laughs and has no qualifications other than some two day hippy 'course' run by a friend of his who once told me, in all seriousness, that she took advice from both angels AND fairies.

So regulation, and some kind of code of conduct, would be nice if people insist on paying someone to be nice to them for an hour.

To be clear, I'm not talking about properly trained and qualified practioners of proven therapies here, just the quacks.

Cantremember

Littlekittylou wrote: »

I bet you guys don't believe in tantric sex and soulmates neither ! Ah yis are missing out!

Put sex and soul together and reckon you'll have them packing the churches again huh? Lol. I think that's one of the reasons they left!

Cantremember

The_Valeyard wrote: »

I do not do any of the above,


But I do meditate from time to time, think it can have a very calming effect and centre a person. It's one of the ways I use to release stress or tension.

I used to meditate. Now I have a good ****. Much more effective.

Littlekittylou

Magico Gonzalez wrote: »

conmen, pure and simple.

You have no idea.
Candie

To be clear, I'm not talking about properly trained and qualified practioners of proven therapies here, just the quacks.

At least with a mainstream psychologist offering CBT (for example), you know they have some qualification other than delusion and a desire to feel important.

You do realize that anyone can set themselves up as a therapist or counsellor in Ireland too. There is nothing stopping you from calling yourself a CBT therapist. Nothing. Infact a lot of CBT practitioners do things like Reiki etc too. SO often no they have no other qualification other than delusion and they are not legally required to have one either in Ireland.

I would never go to a counselor who was not a DR and had once been an MD. There is an interplay between the mind and the body.

KomradeBishop

Candie wrote: »

The problem with these so-called therapies is that any old nutjob can refer to themselves as a therapist and manipulate the vulnerable into confiding to them, or into handing over money for quackery.

At least with a mainstream psychologist offering CBT (for example), you know they have some qualification other than delusion and a desire to feel important.

I know a completely poisonous person, one who has never kept a confidence to himself and who is one of the most vindictive and spiteful people I've ever met. He has a business where he refers to himself as an holistic therapist and offers a range of crap like crystal therapy or reiki to the credulous. There is nothing anyone can legally do to stop him, even though he repeats the personal tragedies his 'clients' confide in him for laughs and has no qualifications other than some two day hippy 'course' run by a friend of his who once told me, in all seriousness, that she took advice from both angels AND fairies.

So regulation, and some kind of code of conduct, would be nice if people insist on paying someone to be nice to them for an hour.

To be clear, I'm not talking about properly trained and qualified practioners of proven therapies here, just the quacks.

Jesus :mad: guys like that should be named and shamed. People like that can waste years of a vulnerable persons life (or worse), trying to recover from a serious personal issue, but wasting their time with someone like that instead of getting proper help.

Unfortunately, the same can apply even to the CBT guys, as they may not be properly qualified (easy to get certs for a lot of things like that, after just taking a short course - very poor regulation), so worth thoroughly researching them first.


I don't mind people who believe individually in some of these New Agey things (can be endearing in an amusing way sometimes - e.g. a friend seeing a nice scene hiking, "hmm...good energy here" :pac:), but ya, it's just plain wrong to try and apply these beliefs to helping other people, with a serious problem of some sort.

It's not all nonsense - meditation/mindfulness has proven to have a lot of benefits - but when it's in denial of well researched evidence, that it is not effective, than that's just plain harmful.

Littlekittylou

KomradeBishop wrote: »

J
I don't mind people who believe individually in some of these New Agey things (can be endearing in an amusing way sometimes - e.g. a friend seeing a nice scene hiking, "hmm...good energy here" :pac:), but ya, it's just plain wrong to try and apply these beliefs to helping other people, with a serious problem of some sort.

I would fall into the first category. I have seen it actively destroy some people. I think it is a certain personality type that can be that way and still keep their feet on the ground. It's not for everyone in fact it's for very few people.

I have actively discouraged others from going to fortune tellers etc. I had an ex bf who wanted to do some of the stuff I was or was curious. I told him I didn't think it was a good idea.

It can be a great waste of time for some and they use it as an escape instead of creative mind space. It's a huge source of creativity for me.

KomradeBishop

Littlekittylou wrote: »

I would fall into the first category. I have seen it actively destroy some people. I think it is a certain personality type that can be that way and still keep their feet on the ground. It's not for everyone in fact it's for very few people.

I have actively discouraged others from going to fortune tellers etc. I had an ex bf who wanted to do some of the stuff I was or was curious. I told him I didn't think it was a good idea.

It can be a great waste of time for some and they use it as an escape instead of creative mind space. It's a huge source of creativity for me.

Of the handful of people I've met who'd fit into that category, it definitely seems to aid in making them more happy/cheery/friendly people/personalities - which makes sense in a lot of ways, as I can see how such beliefs would be comforting (ya though, I could see how people could take it too far, and invest too much of their personality into it, to the point that it could damage them).

They, surprisingly, seemed reasonably skeptical too open to others views and not pushing their own - though the skepticism stretched a little too far, to being skeptical of science/evidence itself, to some degree

It's not something I can relate to, but I find it kind of fascinating in a way, trying to figure out how people come to believe some of the stuff, and why sometimes they can be so averse to research/evidence - you come across the same kind of thinking, in debates on a lot of topics on Boards, too, and it always makes me really curious as to what's behind it all in motivation/psychology.

Littlekittylou

KomradeBishop wrote: »

Of the handful of people I've met who'd fit into that category, it definitely seems to aid in making them more happy/cheery/friendly people/personalities - which makes sense in a lot of ways, as I can see how such beliefs would be comforting (ya though, I could see how people could take it too far, and invest too much of their personality into it, to the point that it could damage them).

They, surprisingly, seemed reasonably skeptical too open to others views and not pushing their own - though the skepticism stretched a little too far, to being skeptical of science/evidence itself, to some degree

It's not something I can relate to, but I find it kind of fascinating in a way, trying to figure out how people come to believe some of the stuff, and why sometimes they can be so averse to research/evidence - you come across the same kind of thinking, in debates on a lot of topics on Boards, too, and it always makes me really curious as to what's behind it all in motivation/psychology.

Actually a few years ago. A college mate of mine had a terrible tragedy befall her family. Her mother was very ill for a long time and ended her own life after a long battle with mental and physical ill health. It really traumatized her and she started unbeknownst to us to see a psychic. When I found out I told her that she needed to stop immediately and seek couselling. Others were of a differing opinion. They thought it was harmless and be of great comfort to her. I knew differently. You see when you are vulnerable you a prone mentally to exhaustion manipulation and losing touch with your own will to your hopes and destructive emotions.

She kept going to see the 'psychic' compulsively. She was fleeced out of a lot of money. We ended up successfully convincing her not to go anymore. I wrote a letter to the guards about the 'psychic' guy. I don't know if anything was able to be done or not. They confirmed they got the letter that was all I heard.

As far as I know she never went again. But I lost contact with her. She sort of fell away from us all she didn't graduate.

If you are staring at a card or a picture it's what your mind tells you about the picture or what the picture tells you about your mind. Like an ink blot it can be a eureka moment. It helps you connect with other parts of the brain that people use drugs to get at. It's very different from using the ego to try and get what you want from other people.

Littlekittylou

KomradeBishop wrote: »

Of the handful of people I've met who'd fit into that category, it definitely seems to aid in making them more happy/cheery/friendly people/personalities - which makes sense in a lot of ways, as I can see how such beliefs would be comforting (ya though, I could see how people could take it too far, and invest too much of their personality into it, to the point that it could damage them).

They, surprisingly, seemed reasonably skeptical too open to others views and not pushing their own - though the skepticism stretched a little too far, to being skeptical of science/evidence itself, to some degree

It's not something I can relate to, but I find it kind of fascinating in a way, trying to figure out how people come to believe some of the stuff, and why sometimes they can be so averse to research/evidence - you come across the same kind of thinking, in debates on a lot of topics on Boards, too, and it always makes me really curious as to what's behind it all in motivation/psychology.

Bertrand Russell and Wittgenstein did a lot of essays on reasonable doubt vrs the problem of skepticism and other minds.

Science is that which can be falsified. It presupposes that reality exists and your senses are not insane. The problem is A skeptical hypothesis is a hypothetical situation which can be used in an argument forskepticism about a particular claim or class of claims. Usually the hypothesis posits the existence of a deceptive power that deceives our senses and undermines the justification of knowledge otherwise accepted as justified.This can be used abusively in arguments either for science or against it. Meditations on First philosophy by Descartes was the first skeptical hypotheses in western modern philosophy. It proposed the hypotheses what if there is a demon making the world up and it is all an illusion? It's like the matrix hypotheses or the brain in a vat hypotheses. It would seem stupid. But it's tool that was used to answer a lot of philosophical and scientific problems. What if the world and I am not real?
I think therefore I am was his answer but it did not solve the problem of other minds. The solipsistic hypotheses was not addressed until much later by Bertrand Russell and Wittgenstein. And it does not fall into Solipsism is not a falsifiable hypothesis as described by karl Popper or Lakatos there does not seem to be an imaginable disproof. Not even the complete death, i.e., annihilation, of the solipsist could falsify his belief in solipsism because he could not analyze that observation. It can't really be disproven because it can't be proven.

The private language argument introduced by Wittgenstein in his later work, especially in the Philosophical Investigations. The argument was central to philosophical discussion in the second half of the 20th century, and continues to arouse interest. The argument is supposed to show that the idea of a language understandable by only a single individual is incoherent. Although we do as Chomsky argued as infants possess a hard wired syntax ready to learn language it still needs to come from outside somewhere and another mind. And so logically outside somewhere needs to exists and so do other minds.

The difference is philosophy will use logical formula to falsify and thus prove anything it claims. Beyond that philosophy presents hypothesis or problems and questions to be used in discourse. It is makes no claims with these.

Wowsers ...sorry to go on.

I did a philosophy degree.

Littlekittylou

It comes into play in a lot of legal arguments about reasonable doubt etc. They say a philosophy degree is a good basis for a law degree.

braddun

if you believe it will work,it will work if you don't it will not

Littlekittylou

braddun wrote: »

if you believe it will work,it will work if you don't it will not

Or sometimes people believe it is working even it isn't.

mcmoustache

braddun wrote: »

if you believe it will work,it will work if you don't it will not

PLACEBO!! Sing it with me... PLACEBO!!!

Calibos

braddun wrote: »

if you believe it will work,it will work if you don't it will not

Most people believe vitamin C will cure a cold. Sure enough the cold is gone in about 2 weeks. How's that for confirmation!!













A cold runs it's course all by itself in ......about 2 weeks....

Littlekittylou

Littlekittylou wrote: »

You do realize that anyone can set themselves up as a therapist or counsellor in Ireland too. There is nothing stopping you from calling yourself a CBT therapist.

Nothing at all, except psychologist is a protected term, unlike psychotherapist for example, and I would suggest anyone needing treatment seeks it from either an MD or clinical psychologist.

KomradeBishop wrote: »

Jesus :mad: guys like that should be named and shamed. People like that can waste years of a vulnerable persons life (or worse), trying to recover from a serious personal issue, but wasting their time with someone like that instead of getting proper help.

Unfortunately, the same can apply even to the CBT guys, as they may not be properly qualified (easy to get certs for a lot of things like that, after just taking a short course - very poor regulation), so worth thoroughly researching them first.

Make sure the CBT therapist is a qualified psychologist and you're safe enough.

Titles like therapist, psychotherapist, counsellor, healer and other variations are a warning sign. I know of one person practising a form of chiropracy in Ireland who calls it by another term and uses the title Dr, although his doctorate was awarded by mail from an uncredited college after an unspecified course of work, and his particular 'speciality' was one he qualified in after he did a six week course, devised by himself, and with him as the only student. He went on to offer the course to others, frighteningly.

I reported this guy too but since he steered clear of protected titles he was immune from penalty.

Nutritionists are another one, anyone can call themselves a nutritionist. Dietician is the protected title you need to see before you put your trust in someone in that sphere.

srsly78

Littlekittylou wrote: »

It comes into play in a lot of legal arguments about reasonable doubt etc. They say a philosophy degree is a good basis for a law degree.

If you studied natural philosophy then you would know all that stuff is rubbish. In particular that our senses are very fallible.

TheBeardedLady

I've never been much of a believer in all this stuff anyway but it seems to be gaining in popularity, which doesn't make any sense - surely we should be becoming cynical about this stuff as science advances instead of less? Since I started my psychology course, I'm even more cynical than I was and realise just how important empirical evidence is, particularly when it comes to dealing with people.

There's a great book if anyone is interested that I'm reading at the moment that can be read by a layperson and it goes into the harmfulness of therapies based on case studies and testimonials and is a great introduction to psychology:

http://www.amazon.com/Think-Straight-About-Psychology-Edition/dp/0205914128

ToddyDoody

€60 a session... I practice Reiki myself

suicide_circus

Pure scam artists

Gongoozler

Counsellors and psychotherapists will be regulated by Coru down the line.

As will Dietitians. But for now that's not even a protected title. I'd like to see how much business I could get calling myself one or a nutritionist.

Osteopathy is the latest trend. Complete bullsh*t.