Time to get rid of or replace the loop line bridge

Kermit.de.frog

The loop line DART bridge by the Custom House and Liberty Hall is an eyesore that severs the city in two and creates an artificial barrier between the old run down part of the city to the west and new docklands area to the east.


As Dubs we are use to the loop line bridge and probably don't give it that much thought but it would be great to somehow remove or replace it with a more slender structure that would allow for what would be a fantastic view of the customs house from O'Connell bridge.

It's an ugly structure that divides the city both visually and physically.

What do you think?



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loopline_Bridge#mediaviewer/File:Loopline_Bridge.JPG

odyssey06

I actually quite like it visually, but sadly, it completely destroys the vista of looking up and down the river... so I don't know what, short of an underground, you could replace it with as a rail bridge whilst preserving the view... suggest away...

Kermit.de.frog

The line could be rebuilt further to the east. And then it could be knocked? In fact I think DCC has lands there for that purpose but i'm not sure.

There was a plan years a go to replace the bridge with a much slender, less intrusive structure that would give better views. But nothing ever came of it.

odyssey06

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The line could be rebuilt further to the east. And then it could be knocked? In fact I think DCC has lands there for that purpose but i'm not sure.

Ideally, you need to preserve the view as far as the Beckett Bridge\Convention Centre.
But then if you put a bridge after the Beckett for rail... you'd block off the vessels that currently come in via the East Link?

Aard

I love to Loop Line. If it becomes obsolete for trains, I hope it will be converted to a walking/bike route, kind of like the New York Highline.

afatbollix

Guinness should sponsor it again.

L1011

afatbollix wrote: »

Guinness should sponsor it again.

Ads were removed to make it less visually intrusive. Most of the bridges are now ad-less but there's a few where there's actually requirements in the Victorian era Acts of Parliament that allowed the line requiring them to be hoarded and it makes sense to sell ads if you have to.

cgcsb

Would require a massive deep bore tunnel project. With the government looking down the sofa for the cash for DART underground, I can't see the cash being made available to satisfy a subjective aesthetic whim.

hmmm

I just hope no-one sticks a preservation order on it. It's a massive eyesore.

hfallada

hmmm wrote: »

I just hope no-one sticks a preservation order on it. It's a massive eyesore.

But its a bridge that allows DART and communter trains to move from the Northside to the Southside of the city. A bridge is needed and the trains need a constant level, so any replacement bridge will be of equal height. There is not way that the bridge can be moved down the quays as the dart literally runs through and wraps around buildings.

A massive eyesore? The paint colour is horrific. But Apollo house, Hawkins house and liberty hall are far worse. These buildings serve little purpose, as they are low grade, inefficent offices. Where as replacing this bridge would be a mess. A majority of DART services and communter trains would be out of action for month, because a few people arent happy that a bridge is blocking the view of the custom house

People seriously need to get real about this city. The views of a minority are destroying this cities potential. A small minority dont like high rise. So we are forced to live in ****ty semi-ds miles from the city. You cant please everyone, but its better to having a livable city, than a city that pleases a minority

Celly Smunt

This might be a little off topic but i was walking around the other day when a thought struck me. If the Dart underground ever did get the go ahead, where the hell are they going to put the entrances to the stations? Dublin's pavements are far to small to put the entrances on and the roads are already a little too slender and traffic packed.

It might be a small problem or a huge problem. It would be chaotic at rush hour with people streaming from the exits onto busy roads or packed pavements.

L1011

Celly Smunt wrote: »

This might be a little off topic but i was walking around the other day when a thought struck me. If the Dart underground ever did get the go ahead, where the hell are they going to put the entrances to the stations? Dublin's pavements are far to small to put the entrances on and the roads are already a little too slender and traffic packed.

It might be a small problem or a huge problem. It would be chaotic at rush hour with people streaming from the exits onto busy roads or packed pavements.

Under Pearse Station, in St Stephens Green and someone out in Christchurch. None are problematic.

Celly Smunt

L1011 wrote: »

Under Pearse Station, in St Stephens Green and someone out in Christchurch. None are problematic.

I get that once under there are no problems,its more so the entrance to get under, there's not that much space around christchurch for example to have a street entrance from pavements.

L1011

Celly Smunt wrote: »

I get that once under there are no problems,its more so the entrance to get under, there's not that much space around christchurch for example to have a street entrance from pavements.

The Christchurch entrance will be in the plaza in the Civic Offices from memory.

Teyla Emmagan

I really hate that bridge. It would just open up the whole city to the bay if it wasn't there. It's such a frickin eyesore!!!

ProudDUB

It's a massive eyesore alright, but building a better/nicer/prettier one would be a massively expensive undertaking. With the country being flat broke, I'm not sure where the money would come from. If the EU would like to give us the moolah, that would be great, but trains would still need to cross the river to get from Connolly to/from Tara St. Relocating the bridge isn't really an option. A tunnel would be great, but who is going to pay for something that expensive?

Qualitymark

It's a beastly thing. Without it, the beautiful Custom House would come back into the view of the city.
I can't understand why building stuff is so expensive in Ireland. Bring in the Dutch and get them to build us a proper underground metro system, with proper price controls on building.

Straylight

Given that Tara Street station is literally at one end of the bridge, a tunnel would need to rise almost vertically once it had cleared the river for trains to be able to reach the station. So any tunnel would pretty much mean the closure of that station. Nobody can argue that the bride is pretty in any way, and if it was being built today no doubt it would be far more aesthetically pleasing. But it is what it is and spending what would probably be hundreds of millions just to improve the view isn't the best use of what little money we have available these days for large infrastructure projects.

Qualitymark

Why not? Close Tara Street station, which isn't in Tara Street anyway, and open a station at Tara Street fire station, or (shudder) on the north side of the river and let dismounting passengers cross the Liffey.

hfallada

Qualitymark wrote: »

Why not? Close Tara Street station, which isn't in Tara Street anyway, and open a station at Tara Street fire station, or (shudder) on the north side of the river and let dismounting passengers cross the Liffey.

Tara street station is perfectly between pearse street station and connolly station. You can't move the Tara station without having train stations too close to each other. This has to be one of the most ridiculous threads in the Dublin city section for a long time

Korat

It's over 100 years old and though the Custom House is a nice building, the view down river isn't that spectacular.

Liberty Hall and Busaras are much uglier sights in my opinion. They look like the only part of East Berlin that has survived since the wall came down.

Markcheese

It's a piece of heavy engineering of its time, I think it looks good ... Not saying that it doesn't block sight lines and views but pretty much any replacment will also block views to some degree.

con1982

I like the loop line bridge but If it wasn't there, i wouldn't advocate building a rail over bridge. It is quite nice to look at. I agree that is a shame we can't see the custom house but there are some awful buildings nearby that are hidden by the bridge. The ulster bank building. The roof level is pleasant but elevations are hideous. The new convention Centre. Terrible. Like a coke can leaning on a box.

Qualitymark

I like the Ulster Bank building, which always makes me laugh - it looks like Voldemort's HQ. Especially viewed from the Famine statues.
If the economy comes back around, the quirky U2 tower http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U2_Tower and the other tower that was planned on the opposite bank will probably be built; we could have a high-rise area here.
It would be a lovelier city if the out to the sea were opened out.

December2012

I actually love that bridge. I love it's industrial look and the mix of the different styles of architecture around the city.

EB_2013

I really like it, once they don't plaster it with advertising hoardings it's an impressive sight with its large columns. Also when you travel across it you get a great view of the Liffey up past Customs House.

As other posters gave said there are uglier structures around the area, Ulster Bank and Liberty Hall.

RoyMcC

Personally, and as a non-Dub, I see it as iconic and a part of the city's heritage. There has been too much sweeping away of the past in the name of modernisation, much of which is far worse than that which it has replaced. Not just in Dublin of course.

Qualitymark

Another solution is to take the bridge down and not provide any replacement line so that northside and southside are actually divided…

loyatemu

Qualitymark wrote: »

Another solution is to take the bridge down and not provide any replacement line so that northside and southside are actually divided…

are you Ross O'Carroll Kelly?

to put the line under the river you would probably have to start descending a couple of miles out, which would mean putting underground stations not just at Tara St, but at Pearse and Connolly as well. This would be insanely expensive, particularly when the only benefit would be an improved view of the Custom House.

Cheaper to build an observation tower on O'Connell Bridge, or the infamous Liffey Cable Car.

markpb

Straylight wrote: »

Given that Tara Street station is literally at one end of the bridge, a tunnel would need to rise almost vertically once it had cleared the river for trains to be able to reach the station. So any tunnel would pretty much mean the closure of that station.

No need to close anything. Tunnel from Conolly under the river, under Tara and Pearse and surface at GCD. Demolish the old stations and sell air rights to build on top of the new station. They're both in prime locations that developers would pay good money to build high density office blocks on. It's hardly rocket science: TfL in London, MTR in Hong Kong and CTA in Chicago have been doing it for decades. In MTRs case, they've been doing it so well, they build and operate without any state funding.

It'll never happen of course but it's nice to dream.

Edi:Loyatemu might have a point, it might be easier to dive north of Connolly, somewhere near Fairview park. Better not dig through DPT though, traffic lights in an underground road tunnel would probably be unpopular :-)

Greenmachine

I am not sure what the op is getting at. I like the bridge and there are plenty of run down sides on both sides. But for the ifsc the other side of the bridge would be completely run down.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Qualitymark wrote: »

Another solution is to take the bridge down and not provide any replacement line so that northside and southside are actually divided…

Won't work. The trains will just drive really fast and jump the gap.

hmmm

Why do they need such a massive gridwork of a bridge - the pillars are also far too big? It probably wouldn't defeat an engineer to design a bridge that would have a single horizontal element, so even though the bridge remained we would still be able to see the rest of the city.

frankyboy1986

Qualitymark wrote: »

Another solution is to take the bridge down and not provide any replacement line so that northside and southside are actually divided…

didnt they already try something similar with the broadmeadow viaduct?

miamee

How often do people actually stop on a bridge to take in the view? I do it myself from time to time but I'm not sure many other people do.

It's not the prettiest of bridges but it looks much better since they removed the advertising from it and actually it's not half bad. Surely something supporting multiple Darts and commuter trains every day needs to be sturdy and strong and therefore a bit chunky?

whisky_galore

There are a lot worse looking buildings in Dublin.

Riskymove

whisky_galore wrote: »

There are a lot worse looking buildings in Dublin.

tbf I think it is less about the bridge itself and more about the visual impact and impeded views etc

Riskymove

http://www.bridgesofdublin.ie/bridges/loopline-bridge/history

whisky_galore

Riskymove wrote: »

tbf I think it is less about the bridge itself and more about the visual impact and impeded views etc

Unless there's something like a serious structural issue, I very much doubt it will be replaced in our lifetimes. A case of build a bridge and get over it.

As an occasional visitor to Dublin I like the bridge - it is as much an image of the city as the customs house to me.

There is a lot of lower hanging fruit available if you want to see the city centre beautified.

Qualitymark

What about superstition - getting rid of the bridge would improve the city's feng shui!

Peregrine

If we're getting rid of anything, it should be Hawkins House.

humberklog

I got to like the loop line. It is brutal, strong too. A lovely reminder of strong and unkind engineering. I like cities with stark tattoos of things that meant something at some point.

I've a construction engineering background and can't see how a tunnel would work as the gradients to get under and up below the liffey and return the lines back into existing lines would take a huge length of line.

Cookie_Monster

It's a great looking piece of heavy engineering. Much better looking than many of the surrounding buildings.

It would also be immensely impractical and expensive to tunnel. Trains can't really deal with more than a 3% grade. So probably 10m to street level, another 5m to river and 10m to bottom underneath; 25m drop, requires almost a km to allow for that either side of the river.

Polar101

I quite like the bridge, would be nice if it wasn't as 'low-lying' as it is now, but not much that could be done about that. Tara Street station is definitely needed, so I don't see the 'going around' options being too realistic.

power pants

why not just have a ramp at each side and the train can jump over the liffey ? :rolleyes:

Qualitymark

power pants wrote: »

why not just have a ramp at each side and the train can jump over the liffey ? :rolleyes:

Yes, already suggested this, but for some reason people aren't enthusiastic. Actually, on thinking it through, probably the most sensible thing would be to have a couple of airships hovering over the river that could attach hooks to the train and float it across each time.

loyatemu

Qualitymark wrote: »

Yes, already suggested this, but for some reason people aren't enthusiastic. Actually, on thinking it through, probably the most sensible thing would be to have a couple of airships hovering over the river that could attach hooks to the train and float it across each time.

now you're being silly.

How about giant fans floating on the Liffey that levitate the trains over on a cushion on air?

Qualitymark

loyatemu wrote: »

now you're being silly.

How about giant fans floating on the Liffey that levitate the trains over on a cushion on air?

Oooh! I *likes* it.

hmmm

loyatemu wrote: »

now you're being silly.

How about giant fans floating on the Liffey that levitate the trains over on a cushion on air?

Perhaps a giant magnet under the water, and another giant magnet with reverse polarity on the train that could hover the train across.

Or better still, a London eye type setup with a rollercoaster. If you angled it right, it would allow a clear view down the quays.

I wouldn't dismiss a giant cannon either, there's lots you could do with this.

BMJD

I had to remind myself what the proposed redevelopment of Liberty Hall was supposed to look like:



eeew

it would look fine a kilometer or two further east along the quays imo

back to the bridge, it's ugly as sin but it ain't going anywhere anytime soon, it's a shame that it can't be tidied up a bit, those horrible lattice girder things are rotten looking yokes