A train station for Croke Park?

ardmacha

There is proposal to demolish the flats by Croke Park and create an entrance plazea.

This is a welcome idea. Is it completely out of the question to suggest that a railway station for events could be here, or is this ridiculous? Is this line operational?

n97 mini

This came up before. The best practice now is to build stations in less convenient locations to prevent them getting too busy.

hfallada

Well considering Drumcondra station is so close. It doesnt make sense to buy a new station for something that will be used on a Sunday for about half a year.

L1011

ardmacha wrote: »

This is a welcome idea. Is it completely out of the question to suggest that a railway station for events could be here, or is this ridiculous? Is this line operational?

Its operational - used for about 8 trains each way a day and still connected to the network - but is likely too close (as per n97's post there, you don't want them right beside stadia or other venues due to crush risks), and the line is in a cutting.

ClovenHoof

That's a load of nonsense about it being too close. Large stadia all over the world have platforms beside the stadium. A major opportunity was lost with this proposal.

Also CIE want to develop the lower canal line into a cycle path which is why they are demolishing its connectivity to the network constantly.

ProudDUB

L1011 wrote: »

Its operational - used for about 8 trains each way a day and still connected to the network - but is likely too close (as per n97's post there, you don't want them right beside stadia or other venues due to crush risks), and the line is in a cutting.

Only 8? Doesn't the Dublin-Maynooth commuter train use that line? I'd say that runs more than 8 times a day. Then there are the trains to Sligo/Longford.

I don't think that a station could be put there. It is a raised line. From an engineering point of view, it would be a lot harder to do, than having a ground level train station such as the one beside the Aviva at Landsdowne Rd. Landsdowne works as well as it does, as there is a tunnel running under it which means match and concert goers don't need to cross over the tracks, or use a bridge to get to the stadium. With a raised train line, a tunnel wouldn't be possible.

Carawaystick

ProudDUB wrote: »

Only 8? Doesn't the Dublin-Maynooth commuter train use that line? I'd say that runs more than 8 times a day. Then there are the trains to Sligo/Longford.

Most of those trains use the train line at the Railway Rnd
This is at the Canal End

ProudDUB wrote: »

I don't think that a station could be put there. It is a raised line. From an engineering point of view, it would be a lot harder to do, than having a ground level train station such as the one beside the Aviva at Landsdowne Rd. Landsdowne works as well as it does, as there is a tunnel running under it which means match and concert goers don't need to cross over the tracks, or use a bridge to get to the stadium. With a raised train line, a tunnel wouldn't be possible.

The railway at the canal is not raised, the railway at the railway end is the raiders one that crosses over Ballyboughal road and Drumcondra road to Drumcondra station

L1011

ProudDUB wrote: »

Only 8? Doesn't the Dublin-Maynooth commuter train use that line? I'd say that runs more than 8 times a day. Then there are the trains to Sligo/Longford.

No, they go the other side, which as pointed out is the raised one. This one is in a cutting and runs under the Davin stand and only has the services to/from Docklands on it as normal passenger workings.

end of the road

ClovenHoof wrote: »

CIE want to develop the lower canal line into a cycle path which is why they are demolishing its connectivity to the network constantly.

you couldn't make it up. its the sort of moronic thing CIE would do.

Victor

Of course, the station could serve the residents for the rest of the time. However, I think a station on the upper line would be more useful, as it connects better to Connolly.

ClovenHoof wrote: »

That's a load of nonsense about it being too close. Large stadia all over the world have platforms beside the stadium. A major opportunity was lost with this proposal.

Would you like to name some, say how far is between station and stadium and describe how they operate in crowd situations, especially at the end of an event?

n97 mini

The Aviva has a station across the road, closer than that one would be to Croke Park.

Grandeeod

Victor wrote: »

Of course, the station could serve the residents for the rest of the time. However, I think a station on the upper line would be more useful, as it connects better to Connolly.
Would you like to name some, say how far is between station and stadium and describe how they operate in crowd situations, especially at the end of an event?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchester_United_Football_Ground_railway_station

http://www.stadiumguide.com/arena/

http://www.avivastadium.ie/getting-here

http://www.wembleystadium.com/TheStadium/StadiumGuide/DisabledAccess/GettingToWembley

GerardKeating

n97 mini wrote: »

The Aviva has a station across the road, closer than that one would be to Croke Park.

And they tend to close it when there is a match.

Grandeeod

GerardKeating wrote: »

And they tend to close it when there is a match.

According to its website, you use it for Green ticket entry.

n97 mini

GerardKeating wrote: »

And they tend to close it when there is a match.

No the don't. They close GCD. Even says on their website that LR station can cope with the large crowds.

AngryLips

hfallada wrote: »

Well considering Drumcondra station is so close. It doesnt make sense to buy a new station for something that will be used on a Sunday for about half a year.

I think Drumcondra and Summerhill are sufficiently far apart and distinctly of two different neighbourhoods as to warrant being served by two separate stations. Of course, a station on the upper line would work best and would increase in utility once Dart is extended out to Maynooth.

Grandeeod

Victor wrote: »

Of course, the station could serve the residents for the rest of the time. However, I think a station on the upper line would be more useful, as it connects better to Connolly.
Would you like to name some, say how far is between station and stadium and describe how they operate in crowd situations, especially at the end of an event?

You have thanked a post that is incorrect regarding the Aviva. I have outlined other stadiums that have rail connections. So how about comment on that.

Zebra3

A station there could at least be used for inter city services when events are on especially if the PPT is put to good use again.

Why bring people in only as far as Heuston when you can bring them right into the vicinity of the stadium?

cgcsb

Is nobody going to mention how horrific it is to propose we demolish social housing to make way for an 'entrance plaza' while we are experiencing a housing crisis and many children are living in hotels eating ready meals?

irishgrover

cgcsb wrote: »

Is nobody going to mention how horrific it is to propose we demolish social housing to make way for an 'entrance plaza' while we are experiencing a housing crisis and many children are living in hotels eating ready meals?

probably not, as that (potentially valid discussion) would really belong in another forum, not a transport one..

Podge_irl

Grandeeod wrote: »

You have thanked a post that is incorrect regarding the Aviva. I have outlined other stadiums that have rail connections. So how about comment on that.

Under proposed public transport improvements for Greater Manchester, the station would be closed and replaced with a new station a short distance away in White City, where regular services would stop.

So that's basically just like Drumcondra station, which is also closer to Croke Park than Wembley Park is to Wembley.

Is there something wrong with Drumcondra station for servicing Croke Park (apart from, I imagine, not a huge amount of services but a new train station won't fix that).

LXFlyer

Firstly this is a zombie thread, and some people are replying to posts from 18 months ago, but secondly that location can only be served by trains from the Sligo line.

You'd need a scissors crossover at Glasnevin Junction for trains from Heuston to serve it and that (along with the associated signalling) would not be cheap.

monument

lxflyer wrote: »

Firstly this is a zombie thread, and some people are replying to posts from 18 months ago,

On that note

monument

monument wrote: »

On that note

By user request I'm opening this up to discussion again. I'm border line with the zombie thread closing but then again there's already good examples of why zombie posts should be closed (ie responding to two year old threads as if they were posted yesterday).

We'll see how this goes, if it does not work, it'll be locked again.

-- moderator

Wild Garlic

Lansdowne road works very well for match days, very efficient and safe.
GCD closes for about an hour after the match as per Gardai instructions.

Pete_Cavan

Podge_irl wrote: »

Is there something wrong with Drumcondra station for servicing Croke Park (apart from, I imagine, not a huge amount of services but a new train station won't fix that).

Well the entrance to Drumcondra station is small and pokey with a lack of gates, they really should get rid of the wee shop and remodel the station to handle larger crowds.

Wild Garlic wrote: »

GCD closes for about an hour after the match as per Gardai instructions.

Out of interest, will this still be the case when the new turnback platform becomes operational at GCD? With GCD closed I assume trains would be able to terminate there, or will improvements to the station mean it will remain open?

Jayop

Drumcondra isn't fit for purpose on match day. It stopped there the morning of the league finals and thank God everyone was calm and didn't start pushing because it was a nightmare trying to get out. Almost the entire sligo train which was packed got off there.

thomasj

Jayop wrote:

Drumcondra isn't fit for purpose on match day. It stopped there the morning of the league finals and thank God everyone was calm and didn't start pushing because it was a nightmare trying to get out. Almost the entire sligo train which was packed got off there.

The bigger problem would be segregating maynooth line from Kildare line passengers on match and concert days. Could you imagine trying to get on a maynooth line train and a bunch of Kildare line passengers blocking your access. Not to mention crowd numbers on the platform.

Captain Chaos

A far, far better idea is to put Glasnevin Junction back the way it was so that trains coming from Heuston can access the line either side of Croke Park. This would then enable another station to be built under the opposite side of the stadium. It's a win, win idea all round as you are solving the capacity can space issues all at the same time.

Jayop

thomasj wrote: »

The bigger problem would be segregating maynooth line from Kildare line passengers on match and concert days. Could you imagine trying to get on a maynooth line train and a bunch of Kildare line passengers blocking your access. Not to mention crowd numbers on the platform.

I'm a bogger so I don't really know the relevance of any of that or how busy a train from a certain place would be generally.

salmocab

Could someone put up a map showing the current lines in relation to CP and where the drumcondra station is as its difficult to work out what some people are saying? cheers

ArmaniJeanss

salmocab wrote: »

Could someone put up a map showing the current lines in relation to CP and where the drumcondra station is as its difficult to work out what some people are saying? cheers

https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.360712,-6.2533977,16z?hl=en

To the North of Croke Park is the current Maynooth Line into Connolly via Drumcondra station (which is to the left of Croke Park as we look).

South of Croke Pk and parallel with the blue canal is the line into Docklands Station and the Sheriff st depots.

If you travel left on the map you can see where the lines meet.

MrMorooka

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

the line into Docklands Station and the Sheriff st depots.

Actually, IE removed the connection at the east end of the line at some point- now that line can only reach Docklands station and Connoly platform 7.

n97 mini

MrMorooka wrote: »

Actually, IE removed the connection at the east end of the line at some point- now that line can only reach Docklands station and Connoly platform 7.

It's alarming the speed with which IE are dismantling our railway network. What in the name of God did they remove that for.

The missing bit clearly visible on GE.
https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.3539333,-6.2400253,165m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en

L1011

Swiping the points for somewhere else

beauf

ClovenHoof wrote: »

...Also CIE want to develop the lower canal line into a cycle path which is why they are demolishing its connectivity to the network constantly.

Sorry for dragging this old post. What was this about...

Carawaystick

I presume this refers to a desire to have a greenway along the Royal Canal towards Galway.
There's a cycle lane from th eLiffey up towards Sherrif St, then an unofficial path/abandoned line up as far as the Newcommen curve. Then you have open towpath up from Charlevill Mall on North Strand road.

There is a need for a crossing over the line at Newcommen curve, but nothing on the north bank of the canal is required for this greenway routing.

beauf

Its a pity its not looked at with a view to removing awkward gates/junctions. As its a off road greenway all the way from D.15 (and beyond) right into city centre connecting with the southside cycle lanes at the Samuel Beckett.

Its bit off topic though for access to Croke Park though. Sorry for that.

newacc2015

cgcsb wrote: »

Is nobody going to mention how horrific it is to propose we demolish social housing to make way for an 'entrance plaza' while we are experiencing a housing crisis and many children are living in hotels eating ready meals?

What is stopping DCC flattening them and putting the station underground, then rebuilding apartments at say 8-10 storeys high overhead instead of the existing 4/5 storey apartment blocks that are currently there? You are putting in a station and providing more social housing. In fact it would probably make sense to demolish the social housing and replace it partly private housing, since a lot of the area could do with a regeneration.

What is horrific is DCC sitting on hundreds of acres of empty land and no one seems to have an issue with that as all the TD's are just blaming landlords, developers etc

IMO this will never happen. There are far more important infrastructure projects that would happen in Dublin before this

Carawaystick

A station off Ballybough road should be on the Railway end, as that's where the most trains run.