The correct way to board a bus in this situation?

ronano

I get the 123 on O'Connell Street. I use a leap card and tag on the right hand side. I get grief from aul' ones saying I should queue up. Am I being an asshole by not queuing and hopping on when the bus arrives. If everyone queued who used the right side validator dwell time be forever?

jimmii

Weird never seen anyone complaining before it speeds things up most efficient ways is best imo. As long as you aren't standing in front of the machine blocking the way its fine.

Spook_ie

ronano wrote: »

I get the 123 on O'Connell Street. I use a leap card and tag on the right hand side. I get grief from aul' ones saying I should queue up. Am I being an asshole by not queuing and hopping on when the bus arrives. If everyone queued who used the right side validator dwell time be forever?

Depends if the aul ones are using a leap card or not, if they are then you're just being pig ignorant

Also your use of a leap card doesn't give you any greater or lesser right to use the bus, suppose there was only room for 10 passengers, you jump on ahead of passenger 10 in the Q, they'd have a right to be mightily pissed at you

ardmacha

Two queues should enter the bus, one for the driver and one for the right hand side validator. The OP should not skip the right hand queue but of course this may be shorter than the left hand one. Sometimes though the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing.

Tickityboo

ronano wrote: »

I get the 123 on O'Connell Street. I use a leap card and tag on the right hand side. I get grief from aul' ones saying I should queue up. Am I being an asshole by not queuing and hopping on when the bus arrives. If everyone queued who used the right side validator dwell time be forever?

I think you should still wait in turn as (spook )says there may be limited space and you would be just q jumping.

LXFlyer

There really does need to be a blitz on city centre stops by inspectors to enforce queuing regulations. It is becoming a totally random mess.

The system of two validators does nothing to help this of course.

As others have posted, tagging on the right does not give you any privileges in terms of boarding - you should be in the queue before the bus arrives.

CVH24

I would do as you do personally, the idea of two validators is to speed things up and in really we should be moving to a system where by there is less driver interaction. It does speed up boarding and reduce dwell time. If you have your ticket why would you need to stand and wait while others buy their tickets.

noelfirl

A double left and right queue is always how I've remembered people boarding DB services, with a de-facto priority if you happen to have a ticket and everyone else needs the driver. When did the official memo go out saying that was a no-no?

TheQuietFella

They should re-introduce the bus conductor to all buses.
That would at least create employment & speed up departures!
It might also drive up ticket prices but you get what you pay for.

Greenmachine

Dublin bus byelaws suggest queing to the right if you are using a ticket, and q on the left if paying cash. That particular stop however asks all passenger to q on the left. You can still enter from the right if you get there from the q. You should be able to tell when you get near the front what, the people in front intend to do, i.e go to the right or use the driver.
The traditional bye laws gave priority to those who had prepaid tickets. This I think was been complicated now by the leap cards, as those going to use the driver may have a leapcard or may be paying in cash.

Spook_ie

Greenmachine wrote: »

Dublin bus byelaws suggest queing to the right if you are using a ticket, and q on the left if paying cash. That particular stop however asks all passenger to q on the left. You can still enter from the right if you get there from the q. You should be able to tell when you get near the front what, the people in front intend to do, i.e go to the right or use the driver.
The traditional bye laws gave priority to those who had prepaid tickets. This I think was been complicated now by the leap cards, as those going to use the driver may have a leapcard or may be paying in cash.

Where do they suggest that?
http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/About-Us/Dublin-Bus-Bye-Laws/Boarding-and-Alighting/

Now I will accept it if there is a notice at the bus stop but it isn't a given and certainly doesn't mention prepaid tickets having priority

9. When a vehicle contains the full permitted number of passengers no additional passengers shall board or remain on the vehicle. Any such additional passenger shall leave the vehicle on the request of an authorised person.

10. (1) Each passenger shall queue at a bus stop in an orderly manner.

10. (2) Where an authorised person is regulating the boarding and alighting from a vehicle, each passenger shall on arrival at a bus stop take up the position at the rear of the appropriate queue, move forward in an orderly and regular manner and obey the reasonable instructions of an authorised person regulating such queue and in the absence of such authorised person obey any notices displayed at the bus stop.

jahalpin

The same thing happened me a couple of years ago, an old woman said that the right hand side was only for people with passes and that everyone else should use the left hand side, the other old people started butting in agreeing with her

The right hand side is for people with pre-PAID tickets to board and auto-validate their tickets, all other people should board on the left to pay their cash\leap-credit fare or to present flash passes for visual valdation

hfallada

I dont listen to what other people have to say about queuing on Buses. Most OAPs dont know what a rambler or LEAP card is. Most people despite using the buses everyday dont seem to recognize there is 2 queues. One on the left for cash and leap cards, then one on the right for prepaid tickets.

OP when you live in Dublin. You quickly learn to disgard a lot of peoples opinion unless they are an expert. If a bus driver tell you to queue with everyone on the left do it. If some Old person who is the type that shares here life story to the teller in bank for 45 mins when cashing a cheque tells you want to do, ignore them.

Spook_ie

jahalpin wrote: »

The same thing happened me a couple of years ago, an old woman said that the right hand side was only for people with passes and that everyone else should use the left hand side, the other old people started butting in agreeing with her

The right hand side is for people with pre-PAID tickets to board and auto-validate their tickets, all other people should board on the left to pay their cash\leap-credit fare or to present flash passes for visual valdation

That may well be right, however, I would dispute anyone Queuing to get on the bus before someone else, there would normally be one queue, if it splits as you get to the door, then fine, but if I were Queuing and you made to push past, well I'm not sure what I'd do but I know what I'd like to do

Spook_ie

Found this on DB website

6 0
0
Step 1
At the bus stop

Buses collect passengers at bus stops or bus shelters.

While waiting for the bus, please queue in order of arrival.

Please put your hand out to tell the driver that you want him/her to stop so that you can get on the bus.

As the bus arrives and leaves the stop, stand well back to avoid the side mirrors on the bus.

As the bus approaches check if it’s the right bus for you by watching out for the destination and route number on the front scroll.

If you need the bus to be lowered or to use the ramp, just ask the driver when the bus stops. You will hear a bell/buzzer while the bus is kneeling or the ramp is being lowered. Please be patient and stay clear until this has finished.

The bell/buzzer will stop when the operation is complete; it is now safe to get on the bus. For your safety, please do not attempt to enter or leave the bus from the side of the ramp.

If you are vision impaired or are unsure whether the bus is the one you need, just ask the driver, who will be pleased to help you.

Please allow other customers to exit the bus before you get on.

Please queue and enter the bus on the left hand side if paying with coin or Leap Card and on the right hand side if you have a prepaid ticket or paying with Leap Card flat fare.

- See more at: http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/your-journey1/How-to-use-the-bus/Step-1/#sthash.yhpChSFJ.dpuf

Note the 2nd instruction doesn't say have a separate queue for Leapcards etc. but to enter the bus on the right hand side

hfallada

Spook_ie wrote: »

Found this on DB website


Note the 2nd instruction doesn't say have a separate queue for Leapcards etc. but to enter the bus on the right hand side

Anytime I was gotten the bus in town. Everyone with prepaid tickets and using the leap card machine on the right tend to queue to the right of the bus stop. Then everyone with coins queues behind the sign.

At least we know how to queue in this country. In Germany and China,its everyman for himself

Lau2976

My experience of DB has always been queuing and then separating into 2 ques at the door. So if the first person is paying cash, they go to the driver. If the next person has cash they move aside for the next person to distingush whether they are paying with cash or leap. And so on.

Spook_ie

Lau2976 wrote: »

My experience of DB has always been queuing and then separating into 2 ques at the door. So if the first person is paying cash, they go to the driver. If the next person has cash they move aside for the next person to distingush whether they are paying with cash or leap. And so on.

That would be how I'd read it, splitting as you get to the bus. Not queuing separately as seems to be some people's idea

the groutch

jahalpin wrote: »

The same thing happened me a couple of years ago, an old woman said that the right hand side was only for people with passes and that everyone else should use the left hand side, the other old people started butting in agreeing with her

The right hand side is for people with pre-PAID tickets to board and auto-validate their tickets, all other people should board on the left to pay their cash\leap-credit fare or to present flash passes for visual valdation

yep it's getting annoying the amount of OAPs who will get onto the bus on the right, then start waving her pass at the driver hoping he sees it while dealing with cash/leap users, and causing a major hold-up.

JayRoc

Lau2976 wrote: »

My experience of DB has always been queuing and then separating into 2 ques at the door. So if the first person is paying cash, they go to the driver. If the next person has cash they move aside for the next person to distingush whether they are paying with cash or leap. And so on.

I had always understood that the reason for two queues (on the left for those needing to interact with the driver, on the right for those using the validator) is because the right queue moves quicker.

LXFlyer

There is only one place where people queue correctly - that is the 130 stop on Abbey Street.

There is only supposed to be one queue, splitting upon boarding.

Unfortunately at most stops it has now become a free for all with some people trying to board whilst people are still disembarking. There is a distinct lack of courtesy developing amongst people.

I also have no idea where this concept of two queues, one either side of the bus stop is coming from - it certainly is not in any Dublin Bus bye law.

ArmaniJeanss

lxflyer wrote: »

I also have no idea where this concept of two queues, one either side of the bus stop is coming from - it certainly is not in any Dublin Bus bye law.

Showing my age but can recall when One Person Operated buses came in in the late 80s that they had a specific advertising campaign on TV and newspapers encouraging people to board on the right if they had a prepaid ticket.
The ads would show a person happily skipping past the sad queuers on the left, clearly they were saying that being able to bypass the queue was one of the advantages of having prepaid tickets.

So it was definitely at some stage considered the correct way to board. I genuinely thought until now that it was still the guideline.

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

all these oulwans with passes etc will soon be queing to go to the driver to get a ticket with their pass

due to come in next year they will not be flashing a pass and going ahead but putting their new pass on the drivers validater and getting a ticket !

but OP did nothing wrong here that i can see.

Spook_ie

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

all these oulwans with passes etc will soon be queing to go to the driver to get a ticket with their pass

due to come in next year they will not be flashing a pass and going ahead but putting their new pass on the drivers validater and getting a ticket !

but OP did nothing wrong here that i can see.

They should already be queuing to show the driver the pass and for him to validate it anyway, the OP thinks that he should be allowed to bypass the queuing system altogether and just hop on and ignore the rest of the queue.

That is just not the case, at the very least it is ignorant of the rest of the people queuing, he should join the queue and split to the right when it gets to his turn to board the bus.

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

Spook_ie wrote: »

They should already be queuing to show the driver the pass and for him to validate it anyway, the OP thinks that he should be allowed to bypass the queuing system altogether and just hop on and ignore the rest of the queue.

That is just not the case, at the very least it is ignorant of the rest of the people queuing, he should join the queue and split to the right when it gets to his turn to board the bus.

the idea of having the automatic validator on the right hand side is so the people with pre-paid cards can bypass the cash queue and reduce dwell times.

I'd have no problem at all with the OP in this case.

i would have a problem with the pass holders skipping around and showing a pass from a distance and just going ahead anyway

LXFlyer

The problem is that people are NOT even queueing - in fact half the time they're not even at the bus stop but rather hanging around at the RTPI sign.

Spook_ie

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

the idea of having the automatic validator on the right hand side is so the people with pre-paid cards can bypass the cash queue and reduce dwell times.

I'd have no problem at all with the OP in this case.

i would have a problem with the pass holders skipping around and showing a pass from a distance and just going ahead anyway

OK imagine the scenario

20 people queuing for the bus, bus arrives and people start boarding, someone arrives with a leapcard and instead of going to the rear of the queue just hops on, 9 passengers later driver announces " Sorry, full you'll have to wait for the next bus "

Pretty sure you'd have a problem then

The idea and it is mentioned on DB's website is that ALL people queue and only split when actually boarding the bus, either to the right or left as appropriate.

markpb

lxflyer wrote: »

there is only supposed to be one queue, splitting upon boarding.

I also have no idea where this concept of two queues, one either side of the bus stop is coming from - it certainly is not in any Dublin Bus bye law.

That's odd, I took the bus for many years and everyone split into two queue as soon as the doors opened. I've never seen a single queue before.

Why should a person who has a leap card or prepaid ticket queue behind people less organised?

Spook_ie

markpb wrote: »

That's odd, I took the bus for many years and everyone split into two queue as soon as the doors opened. I've never seen a single queue before.

Why should a person who has a leap card or prepaid ticket queue behind people less organised?

I think people are misunderstanding, or maybe I am.

This is the way I think it should work

Bus stop | Bus

__________ qqqq Cash etc.
qqqqqqqqq<
__________ qqqq Leap Card


This is the way I think some people think it should work

Bus Stop | Bus
qqqqqqqqq-qqqq Cash etc.

qqqqqqqqq-qqqq Leap Card

Can't be bothered using any graphics package ( mainly because other than paint I don't have one ) but should be simple enough to understand

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

Spook_ie wrote: »

I think people are misunderstanding, or maybe I am.

This is the way I think it should work

Bus stop | Bus

__________ qqqq Cash etc.
qqqqqqqqq<
__________ qqqq Leap Card


This is the way I think some people think it should work

Bus Stop | Bus
qqqqqqqqq-qqqq Cash etc.

qqqqqqqqq-qqqq Leap Card

Can't be bothered using any graphics package ( mainly because other than paint I don't have one ) but should be simple enough to understand

no matter what way you look at it people in the cash queue will get overtaken by the validator queue. i mean what happens if one person gets on while talking on the phone and asking what the fare is and only then goes looking for the purse , theres no need to hold everyone up then.

the validator works faster than the card on the driver machine too allowing the other queue to move faster again.

Spook_ie

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

no matter what way you look at it people in the cash queue will get overtaken by the validator queue. i mean what happens if one person gets on while talking on the phone and asking what the fare is and only then goes looking for the purse , theres no need to hold everyone up then.

the validator works faster than the card on the driver machine too allowing the other queue to move faster again.

Not the point, the point is that the people in the queue ( in its entirety ) have an equal right to board the bus, the person effectively skipping the rest of the queue is just being ignorant.

Perhaps this is one of those days when I just can't fathom why people are ignorant of any social etiquette

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

Spook_ie wrote: »

Not the point, the point is that the people in the queue ( in its entirety ) have an equal right to board the bus, the person effectively skipping the rest of the queue is just being ignorant.

Perhaps this is one of those days when I just can't fathom why people are ignorant of any social etiquette

TBH im not a customer of Dublin bus normally... but when i do i have a card for the card reader on the right hand side.

i do try to queue up with everyone else but when i do the queue for cash paying is quite long and not moving very quickly and nobody really using the card reader on the right.

it just makes more sense to go for it when there is ample room to do so.

a good example of this is 145 at heuston station

DrMike

The breakdown in queuing etiquette concerns me as one who grew up with an understanding of the then CIE byelaws.

I am fed up with arriving at the bus stop to find that I am in pole-position but when the bus arrives I am cast aside by a mob that appears from behind me where they have been hiding up against a wall or in a doorway.

It is not acceptable for Leap card users to get on ahead in a situation where the bus is nearly full and seats are at a premium.

You board in order of arrival at the bus stop pole!

Mint Sauce

Maybe they should put the validator at the drivers window, the same as they have the oyster card reader on london buses, then its just one queue, therefore people with prepay tickets or lead cards just cant romp up and get priority boarding.

the groutch

DrMike wrote: »

The breakdown in queuing etiquette concerns me as one who grew up with an understanding of the then CIE byelaws.

I am fed up with arriving at the bus stop to find that I am in pole-position but when the bus arrives I am cast aside by a mob that appears from behind me where they have been hiding up against a wall or in a doorway.

It is not acceptable for Leap card users to get on ahead in a situation where the bus is nearly full and seats are at a premium.

You board in order of arrival at the bus stop pole!

are you okay with waiting twice as long for your bus then, due to the longer dwell times at each stop?

n97 mini

While waiting for the bus, please queue in order of arrival.

Please queue and enter the bus on the left hand side if paying with coin or Leap Card and on the right hand side if you have a prepaid ticket or paying with Leap Card flat fare.

I interpret that to mean form one queue while waiting (makes sense as you don't know exactly where the bus will stop) and form two queues while boarding, one on the right and one on the left.

LXFlyer

the groutch wrote: »

are you okay with waiting twice as long for your bus then, due to the longer dwell times at each stop?

It's about some courtesy and respect for fellow passengers.

I always stand facing at the bus stop facing the direction that the bus is coming from, and if I'm there before anyone else I don't expect people to jump from all angles to try and board before me.

At the same time I'd like to think that people could actually wait in an orderly manner and let everyone off the bus before starting to board it.

I don't think it is too much to expect people to actually behave like civilised human beings.

Instead at many stops it is frankly a disgrace.

Trent Houseboat

People advocating a separate queue for Leap Card holders seem to disregard Leap Card holders who still have to validate with the bus driver depending on their destination.

Such a system gives preference does not favour those who paid in advance but those who use the bus more often i.e. Leap rambler fare versus Leap stage based fare.

bigar

I thought a Leap Card was partly meant to speed up boarding. So why wait in a queue for people needing the driver if you can just speed things up by using the validator?

And so what if the bus is full and you are perceived as having jumped the queue? In my eyes all should use a Leap Card anyway.

Spook_ie

DrMike wrote: »

The breakdown in queuing etiquette concerns me as one who grew up with an understanding of the then CIE byelaws.

I am fed up with arriving at the bus stop to find that I am in pole-position but when the bus arrives I am cast aside by a mob that appears from behind me where they have been hiding up against a wall or in a doorway.

It is not acceptable for Leap card users to get on ahead in a situation where the bus is nearly full and seats are at a premium.

You board in order of arrival at the bus stop pole!

the groutch wrote: »

are you okay with waiting twice as long for your bus then, due to the longer dwell times at each stop?

At least if there is limited space he'd be able to get on the bus, everyone else's ideas would leave him standing at the stop waiting for the next bus

hardCopy

I haven't commuted by bus in about 5 years but the way it always worked on Abbey street was a single queue at the pole but once the doors opened all the prepaid ticket holders would surge forward and form a second queue at the validator.

Never once saw an argument about it.

IMO this should be official policy, prepaid tickets should have priority.

hmmm

2 queues, pre-paid tickets and those who want to have a chat with the bus driver/fumble for change. We don't have all day to be hanging around waiting for you, and hopefully the latter will be fewer and fewer as time goes on.

Note that "queueing" involves a queue, not the mad dash like a pack of animals that DrMike mentions.

Daemonic

Westmoreland St is a mess for queuing. Even if you're at the bus stop, due to cars, taxis and a lot of different routes being serviced, the bus will often pull up with the doors 20 yards before or after the stop so you go from 1st to last.
For that reason I've gone over to the 'survival of the pointiest elbows' method of boarding the bus there and will quite happily push ahead of others to validate my ticket on the right and nab a seat.

Spook_ie

hardCopy wrote: »

I haven't commuted by bus in about 5 years but the way it always worked on Abbey street was a single queue at the pole but once the doors opened all the prepaid ticket holders would surge forward and form a second queue at the validator.

Never once saw an argument about it.

IMO this should be official policy, prepaid tickets should have priority.

Absolutely NOT, if there were a pre-booking option then yeah but this is a bus service and everyone is entitled to travel, even those with SW passes.
even those paying cash
As an after thought, according to your policy then SW pass holders would have priority too, after all they are already prepaid by the SW

murphaph

Spook_ie wrote: »

Not the point, the point is that the people in the queue ( in its entirety ) have an equal right to board the bus, the person effectively skipping the rest of the queue is just being ignorant.

Perhaps this is one of those days when I just can't fathom why people are ignorant of any social etiquette

I don't see it as skipping the queue tbh. It's no different to those having a business class ticket boarding an aircraft first. There are perks for having that class of ticket. Same should go for someone who has a leap card because using them reduces dwell times for everybody. Those paying cash are effectively hindering everyone else, whether they realise it or night.

Having said all that, I think any form of queueing would be nice. Here in Berlin nobody queues for a bus. people just bail on in a sort of mob, more often than not entering through the middle or rear doors, even though these are technically forbidden unless you have a buggy (which I often have) or are a wheelchair user.

Spook_ie

murphaph wrote: »

I don't see it as skipping the queue tbh. It's no different to those having a business class ticket boarding an aircraft first. There are perks for having that class of ticket. Same should go for someone who has a leap card because using them reduces dwell times for everybody. Those paying cash are effectively hindering everyone else, whether they realise it or night.

Having said all that, I think any form of queueing would be nice. Here in Berlin nobody queues for a bus. people just bail on in a sort of mob, more often than not entering through the middle or rear doors, even though these are technically forbidden unless you have a buggy (which I often have) or are a wheelchair user.

So now Leap Cards equate to business class, this is just so socially wrong. I just can't get my head around it.
So many people thinking that using a travel pass should entitle them to some kind of one-upmanship in a bus queue, maybe people will start to think we should have 1st and 2nd class buses next

murphaph

It's about "encouraging" people to switch to cashless payment. I think the SW passes should all be converted as a matter of urgency to leap as well, so it's not even about who pays how much, but rather simply who makes dwell times lowest being "rewarded" in this manner.

hots

I'd see it as just the same as paying for your shopping at tesco's, there's a quick option for those that can avail of it (self-service) or if you want to go to the driver you can do that too (main tills). If there's a long queue of people paying cash (or going to tills) I wouldn't stand behind them while the other option is empty?

As for those with passes, I'd say the same for them (and it normally is I think)? So long as you don't need to talk to the driver you don't need to wait in that queue imo.

LXFlyer

I really think people are missing the point here.

The point I'm trying to get across is that people are simply not queuing at all right now. It has just become a rugby scrum to get on a bus.

I actually am a prepaid ticket holder. But I still believe that the correct practice is:

- A single queue, at the bus stop, facing the direction in which the bus is coming
- When the bus arrives people allow passengers to disembark
- The queue can then split in two as people board (people paying the driver on the left and smartcards on the right)

If the bus is particularly full, then anyone who has been there first does deserve to be allowed on board if the driver is restricting numbers.

People are simply not queuing at all, but rather hovering around the RTPI poles, both sides of bus stops, and then converging on the bus in a scrum.

We seem to have lost any form of respect for one another.

n97 mini

If people have a problem with lack of queues boarding buses, then trains must be a total head melter. All those people who arrived after you onto the platform boarding through multiple doors and not a queue in sight!

LXFlyer

n97 mini wrote: »

If people have a problem with lack of queues boarding buses, then trains must be a total head melter. All those people who arrived after you onto the platform boarding through multiple doors and not a queue in sight!

There's a big difference - there is a single boarding point on a bus and it's a matter of having a bit of respect for one another.


It's also in the bye-laws.