People of the year awards

jezzer

Can anyone tell me why the garda whistleblowers got a people of the year award? What have they done to enhance the lives of others?

bear1

jezzer wrote: »

Can anyone tell me why the garda whistleblowers got a people of the year award? What have they done to enhance the lives of others?

It takes a lot of balls to come out and rat on people of a high ranking.
If there were no whistleblowers then bent cops/politicians etc would still be going around doing their dirty business.
How's that?

jezzer

bear1 wrote: »

It takes a lot of balls to come out and rat on people of a high ranking.
If there were no whistleblowers then bent cops/politicians etc would still be going around doing their dirty business.
How's that?

So you really think 2 cops coming out and saying that some of their colleagues let people off penalty points is going to stop corruption? dont be daft, the only victims here are people who got ridiculous penalty points

lazygal

jezzer wrote: »

So you really think 2 cops coming out and saying that some of their colleagues let people off penalty points is going to stop corruption? dont be daft, the only victims here are people who got ridiculous penalty points

You sound like you have a problem with the Garda as a whole. Disgruntled over penalty points?

eviltwin

jezzer wrote: »

So you really think 2 cops coming out and saying that some of their colleagues let people off penalty points is going to stop corruption? dont be daft, the only victims here are people who got ridiculous penalty points

They brought the corruption to the publics attention at great personal cost. It would have been easy to turn a blind eye and do nothing for an easy life but they didn't. Fair play to them. Its not easy to go against the tide like that.

bear1

jezzer wrote: »

So you really think 2 cops coming out and saying that some of their colleagues let people off penalty points is going to stop corruption? dont be daft, the only victims here are people who got ridiculous penalty points

Did I say it will stop corruption? I said that if whistleblowers never existed then corruption would be everywhere.
Those Guards for coming out and letting people know what is going on then helps pave the way for new rules to come in so that this no longer happens.
Victims with penalty points? Sure how are they victims if the penalty points were cancelled?
OP, if you knew that your colleagues were performing in a very unethical way which you knew could damage the image of the whole corporation, would you call them out on it or simply pretend all is fine?

jezzer

lazygal wrote: »

You sound like you have a problem with the Garda as a whole. Disgruntled over penalty points?

Yes as a matter of fact, i think the role of the garda should be for the protection of the people, reducing knife crime, drug crime etc not giving out penalty points for someone doing 75 on a 60 on a straight part of a road, this is just revenue generating

jezzer

bear1 wrote: »

Did I say it will stop corruption? I said that if whistleblowers never existed then corruption would be everywhere.
Those Guards for coming out and letting people know what is going on then helps pave the way for new rules to come in so that this no longer happens.
Victims with penalty points? Sure how are they victims if the penalty points were cancelled?

Get real, corruption IS everywhere, two lads, who were very possibly overlooked for promotion decided to go and rat on something as silly as people being let off penalty points is just ridiculous, if it was a case that they were ratting on cops who were involved in crime or something actually serious it would be different, but this was just farcical

eviltwin

jezzer wrote: »

Yes as a matter of fact, i think the role of the garda should be for the protection of the people, reducing knife crime, drug crime etc not giving out penalty points for someone doing 75 on a 60 on a straight part of a road, this is just revenue generating

The gardai aren't given any choice, they are told what their duties are by the State.

cletus van damme

I think they deserve more than people of the year.
That's the type of integrity we could do with leading the country.
Stg. McCabe for president I say.

which would be fun having him torment the commissioner Noirin O'Sullivan for a change.

Jezzer - I do share you opinion on the penalty points though. What started off as a good idea has been ruined.

lazygal

jezzer wrote: »

Yes as a matter of fact, i think the role of the garda should be for the protection of the people, reducing knife crime, drug crime etc not giving out penalty points for someone doing 75 on a 60 on a straight part of a road, this is just revenue generating

Take it up with the people who set the speed limits, which are not the gardaí. And why would you be driving over the speed limit anyway? If you stick to the assigned limits you've nothing to worry about. A stretch of road near me is 60 kph, but I'm always passed out by people doing 80 kph and they're the ones who'll be caught. Maybe some of those who get a penalty point for breaking the speed limit might think twice about speeding the next time.

jezzer

eviltwin wrote: »

The gardai aren't given any choice, they are told what their duties are by the State.

Yes but the decent ones were able to use discretion to determine a serious crime from something deemed as a crime for monetary gain

jezzer

cletus van damme wrote: »

I think they deserve more than people of the year.
That's the type of integrity we could do with leading the country.
Stg. McCabe for president I say.

which would be fun having him torment the commissioner Noirin O'Sullivan for a change.

Jezzer - I do share you opinion on the penalty points though. What started off as a good idea as been ruined.

Absolutely, well said, i mean 3 penalty points for someone who cant display an NCT cert because of a backlog due to no fault of their own is ludacris, even the judges are in agreement

eviltwin

jezzer wrote: »

Yes but the decent ones were able to use discretion to determine a serious crime from something deemed as a crime for monetary gain

And how are we to know the points that were wiped off the system weren't for serious driving offences?

bear1

jezzer wrote: »

Get real, corruption IS everywhere, two lads, who were very possibly overlooked for promotion decided to go and rat on something as silly as people being let off penalty points is just ridiculous, if it was a case that they were ratting on cops who were involved in crime or something actually serious it would be different, but this was just farcical

It may be silly for you but I wouldn't be so happy if a Guard gave me 2 points and 80e fine but for his/her friend they cancel them and no fine is paid.
Overlooked for promotion? And yet my post is daft and I should get real :rolleyes:
Oh and I believe those favours of wiping clean licence records is a crime....
You still haven't answered my question btw.

Xios

jezzer wrote: »

Yes as a matter of fact, i think the role of the garda should be for the protection of the people, reducing knife crime, drug crime etc not giving out penalty points for someone doing 75 on a 60 on a straight part of a road, this is just revenue generating

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. How are 'Penalty Points' generating revenue? Is there a penalty point shop the government sells them in? Do they export them to France? I hear them french love buying penalty points.

Sarcasm aside, you're mixing up a Speeding 'Fine' with 'Penalty Points'. The penalty point system works great. It stops eejits with more money than brains from driving around like maniac with no consequences other than their pocket change.

anncoates

Fair play to them.

If there was an award for Me Fein Hoorism, the award ceremony would take 3 years.

jezzer

Xios wrote: »

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. How are 'Penalty Points' generating revenue? Is there a penalty point shop the government sells them in? Do they export them to France? I hear them french love buying penalty points.

Sarcasm aside, you're mixing up a Speeding 'Fine' with 'Penalty Points'. The penalty point system works great. It stops eejits with more money than brains from driving around like maniac with no consequences other than their pocket change.

A fine always accompanies penalty points, penalty points are just used as a cover

Voodoomelon

I think I should get one of the person of year awards because i'm great. In fact I think I should get both of them, in case one of them isn't shiny enough.

jezzer

eviltwin wrote: »

And how are we to know the points that were wiped off the system weren't for serious driving offences?

yea as if a guard is going to put himself in the firing line for something serious

jezzer

bear1 wrote: »

It may be silly for you but I wouldn't be so happy if a Guard gave me 2 points and 80e fine but for his/her friend they cancel them and no fine is paid.
Overlooked for promotion? And yet my post is daft and I should get real :rolleyes:
Oh and I believe those favours of wiping clean licence records is a crime....
You still haven't answered my question btw.

Its a small country everyone knows someone who knows someone who could give them a dig out

what is your question?

Xios

jezzer wrote: »

A fine always accompanies penalty points, penalty points are just used as a cover

No, the Penalty Points are in conjunction with a Fine. Before penalty points, you could pay your way out of trouble for being a dangerous driver and keep doing it. Now with penalty points, you get 12 and you're off the road.

http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Licensed%20Drivers/Penalty%20Points%20Chart1.pdf

bear1

jezzer wrote: »

Its a small country everyone knows someone who knows someone who could give them a dig out

what is your question?

Post number 4.
Interesting, can you back that up? I don't know anyone who could help me out if I got a fine. And if I did get a fine for doing 75 in a 60 and 2 penalty points then it would be my own stupid fault.

jezzer

Xios wrote: »

No, the Penalty Points are in conjunction with a Fine. Before penalty points, you could pay your way out of trouble for being a dangerous driver and keep doing it. Now with penalty points, you get 12 and you're off the road.

http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Licensed%20Drivers/Penalty%20Points%20Chart1.pdf

what ever way you want to say it or look at it still comes down to a money racket

lazygal

jezzer wrote: »

Its a small country everyone knows someone who knows someone who could give them a dig out

what is your question?

Just because someone knows someone who could give them a dig out doesn't make it right, as the whistleblowers were right to expose. Why bother having any laws about anything, if knowing a TD or a garda can get you off?

jezzer

lazygal wrote: »

Just because someone knows someone who could give them a dig out doesn't make it right, as the whistleblowers were right to expose. Why bother having any laws about anything, if knowing a TD or a garda can get you off?

The problem is now that silly revenue generating laws can be brought in which hit people harder in the pocket

Tiddlypeeps

jezzer wrote: »

Yes as a matter of fact, i think the role of the garda should be for the protection of the people, reducing knife crime, drug crime etc not giving out penalty points for someone doing 75 on a 60 on a straight part of a road, this is just revenue generating

Could you supply a source for the claim that the penalty points system, or the fines that accompany them generate any revenue. Last I checked that system was costing the state money to run, but that may have changed in the mean time so please supply some evidence of this.

Traffic related injuries are the second most common cause of unnatural death in this country, second only to suicide which the guards can have little effect over*. So road traffic accidents are the number 1 cause of death that the guards have any real ability to mitigate, so it stands to reason that a decent portion of their resources go to tackling this issue. They are also doing a fairly effective job of it since we are seeing a reduction in deaths on the road pretty much every year since the introduction of the penalty points system.

*http://www.hse.ie/eng/services/publications/HealthProtection/Public_Health_/Health_Status_Report_section_3_and_4.pdf

Xios

jezzer wrote: »

what ever way you want to say it or look at it still comes down to a money racket

It has very clearly been a large factor in road safety since its introduction in 2001.

http://www.nra.ie/safety/research/irish-collision-data-revi/Collision-Data-and-International-Benchmarking.pdf Section 2.

in 2001 - 110 road deaths vs 47 road deaths in 2011.

bear1

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

Could you supply a source for the claim that the penalty points system, or the fines that accompany them generate any revenue. Last I checked that system was costing the state money to run, but that may have changed in the mean time so please supply some evidence of this.

Traffic related injuries are the second most common cause of unnatural death in this country, only bested by suicide which the guards can have little effect over*. So road traffic accidents are the number 1 cause of death that the guards have any real ability to mitigate, so it stands to reason that a decent portion of their resources go to tackling this issue. They are also doing a fairly effective job of it since we are seeing a reduction in deaths on the road pretty much every year since the introduction of the penalty points system.

*http://www.hse.ie/eng/services/publications/HealthProtection/Public_Health_/Health_Status_Report_section_3_and_4.pdf

Good luck waiting for that info. The OP still hasn't answered my question.

floggg

jezzer wrote: »

Absolutely, well said, i mean 3 penalty points for someone who cant display an NCT cert because of a backlog due to no fault of their own is ludacris, even the judges are in agreement

While the wait times could and should be much shorter, you could still schedule it well ahead of time to avoid any issue.

Or is that too much personal responsibility for you?

Xios

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

Could you supply a source for the claim that the penalty points system, or the fines that accompany them generate any revenue. Last I checked that system was costing the state money to run, but that may have changed in the mean time so please supply some evidence of this.

Good luck with that, he's got his Opinion and is too stupid/lazy to find facts to prove it, just using sweeping generalities and routine things ya say in the pub.
But then again, this is after hours.

Xios

floggg wrote: »

While the wait times could and should be much shorter, you could still schedule it well ahead of time to avoid any issue.

Or is that too much personal responsibility for you?

Next he'll be complaining about why he shouldn't get fined for having no Tail lights. "Sure Garda, how should i know when me lights are out, I can't see em while i'm drivin"

tritium

jezzer wrote: »

Yes as a matter of fact, i think the role of the garda should be for the protection of the people, reducing knife crime, drug crime etc not giving out penalty points for someone doing 75 on a 60 on a straight part of a road, this is just revenue generating

I don't really have a problem with any system that helps to put dangerous drivers of the road. If you can't read and follow a speed limit sign then you might want to consider taking the bus.

Pretty sure that when this story broke originally one of the examples cited had caused a fatal crash a while after having their points wiped- if penalty points had kept them off the road someone might have a loved one around this christmas

jezzer

floggg wrote: »

While the wait times could and should be much shorter, you could still schedule it well ahead of time to avoid any issue.

Or is that too much personal responsibility for you?

Impossible for a person who has only just purchased a vehicle without a valid NCT

jezzer

tritium wrote: »

I don't really have a problem with any system that helps to put dangerous drivers of the road. If you can't read and follow a speed limit sign then you might want to consider taking the bus.

Pretty sure that when this story broke originally one of the examples cited had caused a fatal crash a while after having their points wiped- if penalty points had kept them off the road someone might have a loved one around this christmas

Are you seriously telling me that the positioning of those speed vans reduce speed in black spots?

jezzer

tritium wrote: »

I don't really have a problem with any system that helps to put dangerous drivers of the road. If you can't read and follow a speed limit sign then you might want to consider taking the bus.

Pretty sure that when this story broke originally one of the examples cited had caused a fatal crash a while after having their points wiped- if penalty points had kept them off the road someone might have a loved one around this christmas

Oh believe me i am all for road safety, people being killed on the roads is a travesty, however i don't believe that doing someone for 112 in a 100 zone helps road safety

jezzer

Xios wrote: »

Next he'll be complaining about why he shouldn't get fined for having no Tail lights. "Sure Garda, how should i know when me lights are out, I can't see em while i'm drivin"

I think you just answered your own opinion there

jezzer

Xios wrote: »

Good luck with that, he's got his Opinion and is too stupid/lazy to find facts to prove it, just using sweeping generalities and routine things ya say in the pub.
But then again, this is after hours.

nothing sweeping about what i'm saying

jezzer

bear1 wrote: »

Good luck waiting for that info. The OP still hasn't answered my question.

any your question is?

jezzer

bear1 wrote: »

Good luck waiting for that info. The OP still hasn't answered my question.

any your question is?

jezzer

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

Could you supply a source for the claim that the penalty points system, or the fines that accompany them generate any revenue. Last I checked that system was costing the state money to run, but that may have changed in the mean time so please supply some evidence of this.

Traffic related injuries are the second most common cause of unnatural death in this country, second only to suicide which the guards can have little effect over*. So road traffic accidents are the number 1 cause of death that the guards have any real ability to mitigate, so it stands to reason that a decent portion of their resources go to tackling this issue. They are also doing a fairly effective job of it since we are seeing a reduction in deaths on the road pretty much every year since the introduction of the penalty points system.

*http://www.hse.ie/eng/services/publications/HealthProtection/Public_Health_/Health_Status_Report_section_3_and_4.pdf

They are costing the state money to run which is why they have come up with more stupid laws such as fining people for having no nct cert

jezzer

Xios wrote: »

It has very clearly been a large factor in road safety since its introduction in 2001.

http://www.nra.ie/safety/research/irish-collision-data-revi/Collision-Data-and-International-Benchmarking.pdf Section 2.

in 2001 - 110 road deaths vs 47 road deaths in 2011.

And who says the NRA stats are correct? do you know for fact that they are correct?

bear1

jezzer wrote: »

Impossible for a person who has only just purchased a vehicle without a valid NCT

This is very simple, don't buy a car without a valid NCT then.

jezzer wrote: »

Oh believe me i am all for road safety, people being killed on the roads is a travesty, however i don't believe that doing someone for 112 in a 100 zone helps road safety

If you got caught speeding, were fined and given points which you then will have to disclose to the insurance company which could affect your premium, are you seriously saying that said person wouldn't think twice about speeding?
The limit is 100 for a reason which compared to other countries in Europe is quite high, going higher than that is breaking the law and increases the risk on the road. Doesn't take a genius to know this.
You are going around in circles, you give statements you can't back up and then get snotty at people for standing up against justice.

jezzer wrote: »

any your question is?

Again, refer to my post number 4.

Beano

jezzer wrote: »

And who says the NRA stats are correct? do you know for fact that they are correct?

and why would you assume they are not correct? Its not like they can just make it up is it?

jezzer

bear1 wrote: »

This is very simple, don't buy a car without a valid NCT then.



If you got caught speeding, were fined and given points which you then will have to disclose to the insurance company which could affect your premium, are you seriously saying that said person wouldn't think twice about speeding?
The limit is 100 for a reason which compared to other countries in Europe is quite high, going higher than that is breaking the law and increases the risk on the road. Doesn't take a genius to know this.



Again, refer to my post number 4.

I really couldnt be bothered looking back over old posts so for the third time, ask the question or shut up about it

the limit is 100 because the roads are in s*ite, which our car tax is supposed to be paying for....dont see much of that happening....

its the manner in how people are "caught speeding" which i have an issue with

bear1

jezzer wrote: »

I really couldnt be bothered looking back over old posts so for the third time, ask the question or shut up about it

the limit is 100 because the roads are in s*ite, which our car tax is supposed to be paying for....dont see much of that happening....

its the manner in how people are "caught speeding" which i have an issue with

It's the first page of your bloody thread. Post number 4. People have asked you to back up other things as well but it's obvious you haven't a clue about anything you are ranting about. You say you are too lazy to look at the first page but yet you aren't lazy in answering stupidly.
The roads aren't in "****e" and what pray tell would you have the limit set at?
The speedo is usually off by a few % so if you were caught (which it sounds like you have) then your speedo would have been showing much higher than 112 before you were caught speeding.
You speed and you get caught, then you pay the price. We all know the risks with speeding and financials attached to it.
But you started this thread asking why were those Guards given an award which you've turned into some bull**** argument over the financials of penalty points.

lazygal

jezzer wrote: »

I really couldnt be bothered looking back over old posts so for the third time, ask the question or shut up about it

the limit is 100 because the roads are in s*ite, which our car tax is supposed to be paying for....dont see much of that happening....

its the manner in how people are "caught speeding" which i have an issue with

Do you not have more of a problem with speeding in the first place? And if the roads are in s*ite, why are you speeding on them at all?

Tiddlypeeps

jezzer wrote: »

They are costing the state money to run which is why they have come up with more stupid laws such as fining people for having no nct cert

Driving with an NCT means you are driving a car which has not been approved to be fit to drive on the roads, it's potentially very dangerous especially in older cars. I would wager any amount of money that people have become a lot more diligent about making sure their breaks pads and tire thread depth are sufficient since the introduction of the NCT. This directly saves lives.

You said it was a revenue generating exercise. It at the very least used to cost more to run than they generated from fines, so unless you provide evidence to the contrary I'm gonna carry on believing that the state doesn't actually make any money from it.

jezzer

bear1 wrote: »

It's the first page of your crap thread. Post number 4. You say you are too lazy to look at the first page but yet you aren't lazy in answering stupidly.
The roads aren't in "****e" and what pray tell would you have the limit set at?
The speedo is usually off by a few % so if you were caught (which it sounds like you have) then your speedo would have been showing much higher than 112 before you were caught speeding.
You speed and you get caught, then you pay the price. We all know the risks with speeding and financials attached to it.
But you started this thread asking why were those Guards given an award which you've turned into some bull**** argument over the financials of penalty points.

Your a gas man, if the thread is so crap why are you bothering to read what i say and post back? if i thought a thread was crap i just wouldnt bother with it, so your telling lies there

Are you seriously telling me the roads arent in sh*te? your not a driver are you???

I havent been speeding in years and if i was it wouldnt be my fault that the speedo was off

What i am saying is that the whole road safety thing is a farce and i think that giving a coveted people of the year award to people who ratted out a few cops who were using discretion in dubious penalty point cases is farcical, those two lads are probably on sick leave paid for by the tax payer and they must have put their families through the ringer, for what? selfishness is all, trying to make a name for themselves because they probably got passed over for promotion or something, only if a serious crime is committed should a person ever rat on a colleague, its not a nice thing to do no matter what organisation you work with.

lazygal

jezzer wrote: »

Your a gas man, if the thread is so crap why are you bothering to read what i say and post back? if i thought a thread was crap i just wouldnt bother with it, so your telling lies there

Are you seriously telling me the roads arent in sh*te? your not a driver are you???

I havent been speeding in years and if i was it wouldnt be my fault that the speedo was off

What i am saying is that the whole road safety thing is a farce and i think that giving a coveted people of the year award to people who ratted out a few cops who were using discretion in dubious penalty point cases is farcical, those two lads are probably on sick leave paid for by the tax payer and they must have put their families through the ringer, for what? selfishness is all, trying to make a name for themselves because they probably got passed over for promotion or something, only if a serious crime is committed should a person ever rat on a colleague, its not a nice thing to do no matter what organisation you work with.

So. Much. Fail.
Your use of the word 'rat' confirms for me that you think the nod and the wink approach, sorry 'discretion' is an appropriate way to administer road safety legislation and that gardaí who expose this culture are the real villains.
One garda has retired and AFAIK the other is still on duty. Not to mention that sick leave is limited to six months and has various conditions attached to it. You think its 'selfish' to expose corruption, seriously?

Tiddlypeeps

jezzer wrote: »

What i am saying is that the whole road safety thing is a farce and i think that giving a coveted people of the year award to people who ratted out a few cops who were using discretion in dubious penalty point cases is farcical, those two lads are probably on sick leave paid for by the tax payer and they must have put their families through the ringer, for what? selfishness is all, trying to make a name for themselves because they probably got passed over for promotion or something, only if a serious crime is committed should a person ever rat on a colleague, its not a nice thing to do no matter what organisation you work with.

If manslaughter due to deliberately driving above the speed limit isn't a serious crime then what exactly do you consider a serious crime?