People of the year awards

jezzer

Can anyone tell me why the garda whistleblowers got a people of the year award? What have they done to enhance the lives of others?

bear1

jezzer wrote: »

Can anyone tell me why the garda whistleblowers got a people of the year award? What have they done to enhance the lives of others?

It takes a lot of balls to come out and rat on people of a high ranking.
If there were no whistleblowers then bent cops/politicians etc would still be going around doing their dirty business.
How's that?

jezzer

bear1 wrote: »

It takes a lot of balls to come out and rat on people of a high ranking.
If there were no whistleblowers then bent cops/politicians etc would still be going around doing their dirty business.
How's that?

So you really think 2 cops coming out and saying that some of their colleagues let people off penalty points is going to stop corruption? dont be daft, the only victims here are people who got ridiculous penalty points

lazygal

jezzer wrote: »

So you really think 2 cops coming out and saying that some of their colleagues let people off penalty points is going to stop corruption? dont be daft, the only victims here are people who got ridiculous penalty points

You sound like you have a problem with the Garda as a whole. Disgruntled over penalty points?

eviltwin

jezzer wrote: »

So you really think 2 cops coming out and saying that some of their colleagues let people off penalty points is going to stop corruption? dont be daft, the only victims here are people who got ridiculous penalty points

They brought the corruption to the publics attention at great personal cost. It would have been easy to turn a blind eye and do nothing for an easy life but they didn't. Fair play to them. Its not easy to go against the tide like that.

bear1

jezzer wrote: »

So you really think 2 cops coming out and saying that some of their colleagues let people off penalty points is going to stop corruption? dont be daft, the only victims here are people who got ridiculous penalty points

Did I say it will stop corruption? I said that if whistleblowers never existed then corruption would be everywhere.
Those Guards for coming out and letting people know what is going on then helps pave the way for new rules to come in so that this no longer happens.
Victims with penalty points? Sure how are they victims if the penalty points were cancelled?
OP, if you knew that your colleagues were performing in a very unethical way which you knew could damage the image of the whole corporation, would you call them out on it or simply pretend all is fine?

jezzer

lazygal wrote: »

You sound like you have a problem with the Garda as a whole. Disgruntled over penalty points?

Yes as a matter of fact, i think the role of the garda should be for the protection of the people, reducing knife crime, drug crime etc not giving out penalty points for someone doing 75 on a 60 on a straight part of a road, this is just revenue generating

jezzer

bear1 wrote: »

Did I say it will stop corruption? I said that if whistleblowers never existed then corruption would be everywhere.
Those Guards for coming out and letting people know what is going on then helps pave the way for new rules to come in so that this no longer happens.
Victims with penalty points? Sure how are they victims if the penalty points were cancelled?

Get real, corruption IS everywhere, two lads, who were very possibly overlooked for promotion decided to go and rat on something as silly as people being let off penalty points is just ridiculous, if it was a case that they were ratting on cops who were involved in crime or something actually serious it would be different, but this was just farcical

eviltwin

jezzer wrote: »

Yes as a matter of fact, i think the role of the garda should be for the protection of the people, reducing knife crime, drug crime etc not giving out penalty points for someone doing 75 on a 60 on a straight part of a road, this is just revenue generating

The gardai aren't given any choice, they are told what their duties are by the State.

cletus van damme

I think they deserve more than people of the year.
That's the type of integrity we could do with leading the country.
Stg. McCabe for president I say.

which would be fun having him torment the commissioner Noirin O'Sullivan for a change.

Jezzer - I do share you opinion on the penalty points though. What started off as a good idea has been ruined.

lazygal

jezzer wrote: »

Yes as a matter of fact, i think the role of the garda should be for the protection of the people, reducing knife crime, drug crime etc not giving out penalty points for someone doing 75 on a 60 on a straight part of a road, this is just revenue generating

Take it up with the people who set the speed limits, which are not the gardaí. And why would you be driving over the speed limit anyway? If you stick to the assigned limits you've nothing to worry about. A stretch of road near me is 60 kph, but I'm always passed out by people doing 80 kph and they're the ones who'll be caught. Maybe some of those who get a penalty point for breaking the speed limit might think twice about speeding the next time.

jezzer

eviltwin wrote: »

The gardai aren't given any choice, they are told what their duties are by the State.

Yes but the decent ones were able to use discretion to determine a serious crime from something deemed as a crime for monetary gain

jezzer

cletus van damme wrote: »

I think they deserve more than people of the year.
That's the type of integrity we could do with leading the country.
Stg. McCabe for president I say.

which would be fun having him torment the commissioner Noirin O'Sullivan for a change.

Jezzer - I do share you opinion on the penalty points though. What started off as a good idea as been ruined.

Absolutely, well said, i mean 3 penalty points for someone who cant display an NCT cert because of a backlog due to no fault of their own is ludacris, even the judges are in agreement

eviltwin

jezzer wrote: »

Yes but the decent ones were able to use discretion to determine a serious crime from something deemed as a crime for monetary gain

And how are we to know the points that were wiped off the system weren't for serious driving offences?

bear1

jezzer wrote: »

Get real, corruption IS everywhere, two lads, who were very possibly overlooked for promotion decided to go and rat on something as silly as people being let off penalty points is just ridiculous, if it was a case that they were ratting on cops who were involved in crime or something actually serious it would be different, but this was just farcical

It may be silly for you but I wouldn't be so happy if a Guard gave me 2 points and 80e fine but for his/her friend they cancel them and no fine is paid.
Overlooked for promotion? And yet my post is daft and I should get real :rolleyes:
Oh and I believe those favours of wiping clean licence records is a crime....
You still haven't answered my question btw.

Xios

jezzer wrote: »

Yes as a matter of fact, i think the role of the garda should be for the protection of the people, reducing knife crime, drug crime etc not giving out penalty points for someone doing 75 on a 60 on a straight part of a road, this is just revenue generating

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. How are 'Penalty Points' generating revenue? Is there a penalty point shop the government sells them in? Do they export them to France? I hear them french love buying penalty points.

Sarcasm aside, you're mixing up a Speeding 'Fine' with 'Penalty Points'. The penalty point system works great. It stops eejits with more money than brains from driving around like maniac with no consequences other than their pocket change.

anncoates

Fair play to them.

If there was an award for Me Fein Hoorism, the award ceremony would take 3 years.

jezzer

Xios wrote: »

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. How are 'Penalty Points' generating revenue? Is there a penalty point shop the government sells them in? Do they export them to France? I hear them french love buying penalty points.

Sarcasm aside, you're mixing up a Speeding 'Fine' with 'Penalty Points'. The penalty point system works great. It stops eejits with more money than brains from driving around like maniac with no consequences other than their pocket change.

A fine always accompanies penalty points, penalty points are just used as a cover

Voodoomelon

I think I should get one of the person of year awards because i'm great. In fact I think I should get both of them, in case one of them isn't shiny enough.

jezzer

eviltwin wrote: »

And how are we to know the points that were wiped off the system weren't for serious driving offences?

yea as if a guard is going to put himself in the firing line for something serious

jezzer

bear1 wrote: »

It may be silly for you but I wouldn't be so happy if a Guard gave me 2 points and 80e fine but for his/her friend they cancel them and no fine is paid.
Overlooked for promotion? And yet my post is daft and I should get real :rolleyes:
Oh and I believe those favours of wiping clean licence records is a crime....
You still haven't answered my question btw.

Its a small country everyone knows someone who knows someone who could give them a dig out

what is your question?

Xios

jezzer wrote: »

A fine always accompanies penalty points, penalty points are just used as a cover

No, the Penalty Points are in conjunction with a Fine. Before penalty points, you could pay your way out of trouble for being a dangerous driver and keep doing it. Now with penalty points, you get 12 and you're off the road.

http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Licensed%20Drivers/Penalty%20Points%20Chart1.pdf

bear1

jezzer wrote: »

Its a small country everyone knows someone who knows someone who could give them a dig out

what is your question?

Post number 4.
Interesting, can you back that up? I don't know anyone who could help me out if I got a fine. And if I did get a fine for doing 75 in a 60 and 2 penalty points then it would be my own stupid fault.

jezzer

Xios wrote: »

No, the Penalty Points are in conjunction with a Fine. Before penalty points, you could pay your way out of trouble for being a dangerous driver and keep doing it. Now with penalty points, you get 12 and you're off the road.

http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Licensed%20Drivers/Penalty%20Points%20Chart1.pdf

what ever way you want to say it or look at it still comes down to a money racket

lazygal

jezzer wrote: »

Its a small country everyone knows someone who knows someone who could give them a dig out

what is your question?

Just because someone knows someone who could give them a dig out doesn't make it right, as the whistleblowers were right to expose. Why bother having any laws about anything, if knowing a TD or a garda can get you off?

jezzer

lazygal wrote: »

Just because someone knows someone who could give them a dig out doesn't make it right, as the whistleblowers were right to expose. Why bother having any laws about anything, if knowing a TD or a garda can get you off?

The problem is now that silly revenue generating laws can be brought in which hit people harder in the pocket

Tiddlypeeps

jezzer wrote: »

Yes as a matter of fact, i think the role of the garda should be for the protection of the people, reducing knife crime, drug crime etc not giving out penalty points for someone doing 75 on a 60 on a straight part of a road, this is just revenue generating

Could you supply a source for the claim that the penalty points system, or the fines that accompany them generate any revenue. Last I checked that system was costing the state money to run, but that may have changed in the mean time so please supply some evidence of this.

Traffic related injuries are the second most common cause of unnatural death in this country, second only to suicide which the guards can have little effect over*. So road traffic accidents are the number 1 cause of death that the guards have any real ability to mitigate, so it stands to reason that a decent portion of their resources go to tackling this issue. They are also doing a fairly effective job of it since we are seeing a reduction in deaths on the road pretty much every year since the introduction of the penalty points system.

*http://www.hse.ie/eng/services/publications/HealthProtection/Public_Health_/Health_Status_Report_section_3_and_4.pdf

Xios

jezzer wrote: »

what ever way you want to say it or look at it still comes down to a money racket

It has very clearly been a large factor in road safety since its introduction in 2001.

http://www.nra.ie/safety/research/irish-collision-data-revi/Collision-Data-and-International-Benchmarking.pdf Section 2.

in 2001 - 110 road deaths vs 47 road deaths in 2011.

bear1

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

Could you supply a source for the claim that the penalty points system, or the fines that accompany them generate any revenue. Last I checked that system was costing the state money to run, but that may have changed in the mean time so please supply some evidence of this.

Traffic related injuries are the second most common cause of unnatural death in this country, only bested by suicide which the guards can have little effect over*. So road traffic accidents are the number 1 cause of death that the guards have any real ability to mitigate, so it stands to reason that a decent portion of their resources go to tackling this issue. They are also doing a fairly effective job of it since we are seeing a reduction in deaths on the road pretty much every year since the introduction of the penalty points system.

*http://www.hse.ie/eng/services/publications/HealthProtection/Public_Health_/Health_Status_Report_section_3_and_4.pdf

Good luck waiting for that info. The OP still hasn't answered my question.

floggg

jezzer wrote: »

Absolutely, well said, i mean 3 penalty points for someone who cant display an NCT cert because of a backlog due to no fault of their own is ludacris, even the judges are in agreement

While the wait times could and should be much shorter, you could still schedule it well ahead of time to avoid any issue.

Or is that too much personal responsibility for you?

Xios

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

Could you supply a source for the claim that the penalty points system, or the fines that accompany them generate any revenue. Last I checked that system was costing the state money to run, but that may have changed in the mean time so please supply some evidence of this.

Good luck with that, he's got his Opinion and is too stupid/lazy to find facts to prove it, just using sweeping generalities and routine things ya say in the pub.
But then again, this is after hours.