My back light is too bright

alcyst

A bus driver let me know she thought my back light was too bright this morning. We were stopped at lights and she opened the door to talk. The light is an Exposure Blaze.

Irony is, the previous day a driver (possibly on the same route) had squeezed me out of road space. This happened about 300m further on, where Dame Street narrows by the Georges St junction.

Beasty

It's only too bright if they are driving too close!! Had a driver make a similar claim to me a couple of years ago. She basically decided she had to overtake (to then veer back in) approaching a junction because "my light was too bright". If she had given me a sensible amount of room the light would have appeared a lot less bright to her!

Tenzor07

The answer to that to the driver should have been:
"Did you see the guy who's light wasn't as bright as mine?
Driver: No"
and pedal off rapidly.

ford2600

OP what setting do you use it on. Top setting is 80 lumens I think.

I use a moon shield 60 on lowest setting and it is plenty.

A lot will depend on how light is diffused by lens of course so comparing lights on lumens alone isn't very useful

07Lapierre

maybe its the Angle that your light is at?

I mean to blind a bus driver, the light may be angled too high?

yop

Ask her if it was as bright as the car in front, then just laugh and cycle on. She saw you, she didn't knock you down. Result

magicbastarder

my response would have been (as i had cause to use this on a bus driver recently, albeit not in a cycling context) 'you are the first person ever to say that to me, most people compliment me on the light'.

gumbo1

As a cyclist your back light is only too bright if your using a 1 million lumen torch or something similar, or if you resemble a christmas tree! If you can be seen you should be safe! I cycle a very dark road near the airport at 3/4/5 am with 1 light and a hi-viz on my bag, my only encounter with a driver or vehicle was during day light! The lamp is a cats eye with 4 led that I set to flash.

Pinch Flat

No such thing as a back light that's too bright imho.

Break lights of cars are likely to be stronger anyway.

Leroy42

There is no doubt that the advent of the really strong lights are causing issues. Whether it is the wrong angle, the wrong diffusion or whatever, even as a cyclist there are some people with lights that seem, to me, to be too bright.

Of course it does it's primary job of making that person visable but it also can be distracting and in some cases blinding (although that would normally be the front light).

Instead of taking the bus driver as someone to be smart at and ridiculed, maybe we take on board the advice! This 'Well I'm alright Jack, that your problem" attitude doesn't help anybody.

Seems to me that the bus driver was polite and simply passing on their feelings about the light.

MarkR

I've noticed some bikes around limerick with a strobe like front light that was very annoying to drive against. They don't seem to be common thankfully. Spotted (barely) another bike yesterday on the dublin road in Limerick. At first, I thought it only had rear reflectors, but it was a very dim rear light. Still better than the stealth bikers!

Eamonnator

What rear bicycle light is brighter than the rear lights on a modern car?
Say the rear LEDs on a new BMW?

Leroy42

Eamonnator wrote: »

What rear bicycle light is brighter than the rear lights on a modern car?

Probably very few, although I would be of the opinion that some are.

I think the main difference is the strobe effect (or is it flashing?) and the angle/height.

Koobcam

I have a 60 lumen moon rear light and it is pretty bright-I've had people tell me a couple of times on group spins that it was very bright, never got that from a motorist. Perhaps the angle of the light might cause problems?

MugMugs

This sums up the appropriate response to the driver perfectly.

columbus_66

Some bicycle lights are really blinding, front or back, especially as they are usually pointed up in the air. Who likes driving behind someone with their fog lights on? Or towards someone with their headlights on full beam? Maybe there should be an NCT for bikes as well?

WillyFXP

columbus_66 wrote: »

Some bicycle lights are really blinding, front or back, especially as they are usually pointed up in the air. Who likes driving behind someone with their fog lights on? Or towards someone with their headlights on full beam? Maybe there should be an NCT for bikes as well?

There isn't an NCT for motorcycles, yet you suggest one for bicycles?

tomasrojo

columbus_66 wrote: »

Some bicycle lights are really blinding, front or back

I've been dazzled by front lights a few times. Can't recall ever being dazzled by a rear light. They can be pretty bright, but since they're not designed to light up the road, they're generally nowhere near as bright as the brighter front lights.

Ole Rodrigo

On the rare occasion you get stuck behind a powerful LED on flash mode on a dark road, yes that can be distracting. Usually that's an issue for cyclists, not motorists.

pprendeville

What are the lights on Dublinbike like in terms of output I wonder. They dazzle if you look straight at them but have a very good focused beam.

07Lapierre

IMO all lights should be on the bike ( not on helmets, strapped to bags etc).

Front lights should be mounted no higher than the Handlebars.

Rear lights should be mounted no higher than saddle height

Both front and rear lights should be angled down slightly.

seamus

07Lapierre wrote: »

IMO all lights should be on the bike ( not on helmets, strapped to bags etc).

Front lights should be mounted no higher than the Handlebars.

Rear lights should be mounted no higher than saddle height

Both front and rear lights should be angled down slightly.

Agreed. For whatever reason lights attached to helmets or bags just don't appear very visible at all, you may as well have no lights on.

They should really only be used as auxiliary lights - helmet mounts in reality are meant for trail riding, not city riding.

As for the complaint of rear lights being too bright, I'm skeptical.

The brightness of rear lights on cars varies, from what I can gather online it can be anything from 2lm in normal mode to 60lm for the brake light.
So IMO anything over 50lm on the back of a bike is probably taking the piss, especially if it's flashing. Think about how irritating it is to sit behind someone who has their foot on the brake for no reason, and now imagine that light is flashing.
Rear lights are lights to help you in being seen, not to help you see, so they don't need to be in the hundreds of lumens. Car lights are much bigger, so 2-5lm is plenty, but that doesn't mean bike lights on the back need to be the brightest money can buy.

Chips Lovell

Law says that lights must be mounted on the bike and the front be no more than five feet off the ground and the rear no more than three feet off the ground.

cython

07Lapierre wrote: »

IMO all lights should be on the bike ( not on helmets, strapped to bags etc).

Front lights should be mounted no higher than the Handlebars.

Rear lights should be mounted no higher than saddle height

Both front and rear lights should be angled down slightly.

Don't fully agree with the section in bold - I have seen some cyclists with lights attached (as bands) to their legs, and they help quite a bit with visibility as a moving light draws the eye in a similar way to a flashing one, and distinguishes them further from cars, etc.

ford2600

seamus wrote: »

Agreed. For whatever reason lights attached to helmets or bags just don't appear very visible at all, you may as well have no lights on.

They should really only be used as auxiliary lights - helmet mounts in reality are meant for trail riding, not city riding.

As for the complaint of rear lights being too bright, I'm skeptical.

The brightness of rear lights on cars varies, from what I can gather online it can be anything from 2lm in normal mode to 60lm for the brake light.
So IMO anything over 50lm on the back of a bike is probably taking the piss, especially if it's flashing. Think about how irritating it is to sit behind someone who has their foot on the brake for no reason, and now imagine that light is flashing.
Rear lights are lights to help you in being seen, not to help you see, so they don't need to be in the hundreds of lumens. Car lights are much bigger, so 2-5lm is plenty, but that doesn't mean bike lights on the back need to be the brightest money can buy.

Op light is 80lum on high setting.

I'll check the lux level tonight at 5m for 60lum moon shield and car rear light and brake light

07Lapierre

seamus wrote: »

Agreed. For whatever reason lights attached to helmets or bags just don't appear very visible at all, you may as well have no lights on.

They should really only be used as auxiliary lights - helmet mounts in reality are meant for trail riding, not city riding.

As for the complaint of rear lights being too bright, I'm skeptical.

The brightness of rear lights on cars varies, from what I can gather online it can be anything from 2lm in normal mode to 60lm for the brake light.
So IMO anything over 50lm on the back of a bike is probably taking the piss, especially if it's flashing. Think about how irritating it is to sit behind someone who has their foot on the brake for no reason, and now imagine that light is flashing.
Rear lights are lights to help you in being seen, not to help you see, so they don't need to be in the hundreds of lumens. Car lights are much bigger, so 2-5lm is plenty, but that doesn't mean bike lights on the back need to be the brightest money can buy.

You might be right, but I have this rear light and on its brightest setting, I think its too bright.. having said that, that's probably why they designed it with more than one setting, so that it can be set according to the conditions under which its used.


http://www.cyclistno1.co.uk/assets/images/Gear/Hope/District-3/hope-district-1.jpg

07Lapierre

cython wrote: »

Don't fully agree with the section in bold - I have seen some cyclists with lights attached (as bands) to their legs, and they help quite a bit with visibility as a moving light draws the eye in a similar way to a flashing one, and distinguishes them further from cars, etc.

Cant argue with that... its high powered lights on Helmets that I have an issue with, especially when there set to flashing mode. When commuting, I think they are just annoying!

( In fact, what is the purpose of the flashing Mode? IMO its for attracting attention in the event of an emergency, i.e. if your lost at sea or trapped on a cliff? ... no purpose when cycling/commuting)

Beasty

Oscar Gateaux wrote: »

Law says that lights must be mounted on the bike and the front be no more than five feet off the ground and the rear no more than three feet off the ground.

Think there is something essentially saying they must be either central or to the right of centre

AFAIK those rules only apply to the statutory minimum lighting required and you can mount additional lighting on your body/helmet/rucksack etc. I certainly find my helmet light invaluable as a "pothole/puddle spotter" on unlit country roads.

tomasrojo

Beasty wrote: »

AFAIK those rules only apply to the statutory minimum lighting required and you can mount additional lighting on your body/helmet/rucksack etc.

That's my understanding too. You have to have a front and rear light attached to the bike in a particular way, but you can attach lights to anything you like after that.

tomasrojo

07Lapierre wrote: »

( In fact, what is the purpose of the flashing Mode? IMO its for attracting attention in the event of an emergency, i.e. if your lost at sea or trapped on a cliff? ... no purpose when cycling/commuting)

Only two purposes I can think of:
1. Make a weaker light more conspicuous.
2. Make batteries last longer.

irishrover99

I use flashing lights on both front and back as i believe they make me more noticeable. I don't see how anyone could be annoyed with with a bright bicycle light. I'm sure the driver would have something to say if they crashed into you with lights that were very dim.

Anyway if they get me home to my family each day safely, that's all that really matters to me, and i do drive too.

Jawgap

alcyst wrote: »

A bus driver let me know she thought my back light was too bright this morning. We were stopped at lights and she opened the door to talk. The light is an Exposure Blaze.

Irony is, the previous day a driver (possibly on the same route) had squeezed me out of road space. This happened about 300m further on, where Dame Street narrows by the Georges St junction.

You're ok OP, it was only a bus driver - if it was a taxi driver then you'd have to change your lights, because they're always right

I use shockingly powerful lights on my bike - so if I do get clipped the person who does it will not be able to say they didn't see me. Saying that they are angled downwards, including the rear light to create a 'splash' which I think helps, especially on unlit roads.

I think if you are 'wearing' lights higher up the body (I've one on the lid and if I have a rucksack one goes on that) then lower power flashing units are better and more courteous to other road users.

there seems, imo, to have started a recent trend with some very bright helmet-mounted forward facing lights which can be quite dazzling.

And just as an aside, my lights got me stopped by the Guards once - a motorbike Garda turned and came after me because of their brightness. He was more interested in seeing what they were than giving me a ticking off, but he did suggest angling them down more than I had.

......and final story, stopped once at a blocked road where a Guard was re-directing traffic from a fire. Asked what was the best detour and despite being lit up like Aviva Stadium, the Guard questioned me as to why I wasn't wearing any hi-viz!!!

Chips Lovell

Beasty wrote: »

Think there is something essentially saying they must be either central or to the right of centre

AFAIK those rules only apply to the statutory minimum lighting required and you can mount additional lighting on your body/helmet/rucksack etc. I certainly find my helmet light invaluable as a "pothole/puddle spotter" on unlit country roads.

Yes, that's my reading of it too. That you can have auxillary lights provided you have the statutory ones.

Rubberchikken

i wish all cyclists had a light, never mind how bright it was.
very hard to see black bikes ridden by people in black clothes in the dark.

shine a light please;)

07Lapierre

irishrover99 wrote: »

I use flashing lights on both front and back as i believe they make me more noticeable. I don't see how anyone could be annoyed with with a bright bicycle light. I'm sure the driver would have something to say if they crashed into you with lights that were very dim.

Anyway if they get me home to my family each day safely, that's all that really matters to me, and i do drive too.

To be fair, you may have a point if your commute is in urban well lit areas. A flashing LED has its uses in that environment.

Tombo2001

I have the same type of light, I use the flashing version during the day but the fixed setting at night.

I think its the flash as much as the strength that gets at people.

Chips Lovell

I do think the vehicle lighting regulations may need to be revisited since they were drawn up long before the era of high powered bike lights. You've got a situation now where some cyclists have high powered lights pointed directly into the eyes of oncoming traffic.

tomasrojo

Oscar Gateaux wrote: »

I do think the vehicle lighting regulations may need to be revisited since they were drawn up long before the era of high powered bike lights. You've got a situation now where some cyclists have high powered lights pointed directly into the eyes of oncoming traffic.

Yes, I think the regulations are from the late sixties? Very weak lights at that stage. Something like this?




Nice big circle of light from onlookers' point of view. About 8cm?

07Lapierre

tomasrojo wrote: »

Only two purposes I can think of:
1. Make a weaker light more conspicuous.
2. Make batteries last longer.

I had these two problems a few years ago. Since then I bought better lights and I always carry a spare battery. I also carry a backup rear light. My commute consists of about 15k on unlit rural roads and 10k in urban well lit roads, so the thoughts of been stranded without any light on a dark country road are my biggest fear. Maybe my setup is OTT though.

07Lapierre

Beasty wrote: »

Think there is something essentially saying they must be either central or to the right of centre

AFAIK those rules only apply to the statutory minimum lighting required and you can mount additional lighting on your body/helmet/rucksack etc. I certainly find my helmet light invaluable as a "pothole/puddle spotter" on unlit country roads.

Beasty do you have a front light mounted on your bike? What's the advantage of being able to see potholes to your left/right? My light is powerful enough to illuminate the full width of a minor road. Maybe you just need a brighter front light on your bike instead of a spotlight on your head?

irisheddie85

The issue with a light that's too bright front or rear is it makes unlit objects around you less visible.
so if your rear light is very bright and you are behind a cyclist with no light he becomes even harder to see.
or if you are coming up to a pothole or something you will need to move out to go around someone behind you will have a harder time seeing the obstacle and anticipating your move around it.

irishrover99

Oscar Gateaux wrote: »

I do think the vehicle lighting regulations may need to be revisited since they were drawn up long before the era of high powered bike lights. You've got a situation now where some cyclists have high powered lights pointed directly into the eyes of oncoming traffic.

Maybe they should also look at the regulations on car lights too. Especially them Audi's with the LED lights. Although i'm sure a few politicians drive them

Pinch Flat

Oscar Gateaux wrote: »

I do think the vehicle lighting regulations may need to be revisited since they were drawn up long before the era of high powered bike lights. You've got a situation now where some cyclists have high powered lights pointed directly into the eyes of oncoming traffic.

My lezynes (micro and macro) I note are illegal in Germany. They are bright when on strobe. Had a fella behind me on the quays the other night - his strobes were extremely bright and distracting

Chips Lovell

Yeah, that's a good point. I've noticed some of them too. Pretty dazzling.

Pinch Flat

irishrover99 wrote: »

Maybe they should also look at the regulations on car lights too. Especially them Audi's with the LED lights. Although i'm sure a few politicians drive them

Some of the HID kits on headlights are very badly fitted - diy jobs a lot of the time and retro-fitted into halogen reflectors. An much bigger problem than flashing bike lights imo

morana

is there any evidence of any accident caused by a bright bicycle light?

Chips Lovell

I narrowly avoided one last year in the Phoenix Park. Was blinded by a guy's light and almost missed a stag running out in front of me.

NeedMoreGears

It's not the lights that are too bright that bug me (not all of them anyway). It's the really crappy dim and/or badly directed lights. I think they are quite dangerous as it seems to me that people who have such lights get a false sense of security from them. They think they can be seen when in fact there are almost as invisible as some of the idiots ninjas you can(not) see around.

nak

morana wrote: »

is there any evidence of any accident caused by a bright bicycle light?

Not in my case, but I do think it is inconsiderate to be riding around blinding everyone. Have had to slow down/stop on my commute along the canal on numerous occasions due to mobile lighthouses pointed up at my eyes. Some now have more than one of the bloody things. It's a lit path so not exactly hard to see people.

Jawgap

Oscar Gateaux wrote: »

I narrowly avoided one last year in the Phoenix Park. Was blinded by a guy's light and almost missed a stag running out in front of me.

You get a lot of that this time of year with that 12 Pubs of Christmas lark

Kalman

alcyst wrote: »

A bus driver let me know she thought my back light was too bright this morning. We were stopped at lights and she opened the door to talk. The light is an Exposure Blaze.

Irony is, the previous day a driver (possibly on the same route) had squeezed me out of road space. This happened about 300m further on, where Dame Street narrows by the Georges St junction.

Nonsense! it's better to be seen than not! I have flashing L.E.D's and high visibility jacket>>>I'm concerned about me!>>not a bus driver.