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Dublin Bus vehicle maintaining very low average speed
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It is:
Obviously rubbish.
The fact remains that the "on time" is what it typically is, or if not it's what's on the timetable, and none of 2 minutes BS.
No you asked what is the arrival time and as per the drivers board the arrival time is 2 minutes before his next scheduled departure unless obviously where the driver is due to take the bus back to the depot in which case he has an arrival time to the terminus followed by time he is due to be in the depot to finish or break.
No BS those are the facts, whether you like it or not.0 -
A nice idea in theory, but then you post this:
Which means that these so-called arrival times are still no use to the customer, and we are back to the first post I quoted in terms of customer information w.r.t. arrival times, i.e. none are published, at least not in the customers' view. Once you get there, you have 2 options for determining arrival times; either it's to be based off the estimated journey times on timetables (which reality can vary wildly from) or simply experience/the "normal" time.
But the bus always has an official arrival time it can arrive before after or on that time, but it still has an official arrival time and it is not late unless it arrives after that time and in practice it is not late unless it arrives after its next scheduled departure which is in the normal course excepting when the bus has to return to the depot 2 minutes after its official arrival time.
Now in practice on different routes at different times a bus may "normally" arrive well in advance of its official arrival time, but it is not late when it doesn't and the NTA want buses to arrive at or near its arrival time which in practice all being well a bus should use up its full running time irrespective of traffic or loading, the downside to that is if a problem arises towards the end of the journey there is no recovery time because it has been used up by stopping buses along route or requesting buses to slow down, and the next departure for that bus may have to be canceled or the bus curtailed. The NTA haven't worked that bit out yet.0 -
From a customer perspective it doesn't matter what's on the driver's board. If it arrives later than it usually arrives, from the customer's perspective it's late.0
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From a customer perspective it doesn't matter what's on the driver's board. If it arrives later than it usually arrives, from the customer's perspective it's late.
Perspective is not reality, the reality is a bus has x amount of time to do a journey it may regularly do that journey in less time but, unless it uses more time it is not late, it is later than it regularly is, and with the NTA pushing for even headways buses ahead of scheduled arrival will be less and less which is what you actually want, regular journey times irrespective of traffic, which means the bus will take the longer even if quicker journeys are possible.0 -
The bus was waiting at the terminus this morning so i was talking to the driver and i showed him this discussion.
He said it could be to do with engine emissions, something called Add Blue, when its not working properly it limits the top speed to cut engine emissions, he said bus can only crawl along.0 -
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The bus was waiting at the terminus this morning so i was talking to the driver and i showed him this discussion.
He said it could be to do with engine emissions, something called Add Blue, when its not working properly it limits the top speed to cut engine emissions, he said bus can only crawl along.
Shouldn't be driven with no adblue, driver would be liable to a fine of upto €1000 for a first offence if found driving without adblue, you would hope a professional driver wouldn't be silly enough to continue a journey with the bus in limp home mode.0 -
This thread does highlight the manner in which buses are scheduled in Dublin.
There has been an improvement in the scheduling of buses since Network Direct, for example on the Lucan QBC the 25a/25b are scheduled in such a way to offer an integrated service along the core section of the route (from Merrion Square to Foxborough and v.v.), and the 26, 66/a/b and 67 have integrated schedules outbound (every 15 minutes to Leixlip all day, and every 7-8 minutes to Palmerstown).
At the same time in order to come up with RTPI information, full timing estimates for every stop have been produced for every departure on every route. However, these are precisely that- estimates and they are not timetables.
The only real timetables in place are, as cdebru states, the public departure times from the terminus, and (where appropriate) additional entries on the drivers' running boards for:
- Departure times from the depot
- Driver changeovers (can be mid-route)
- Buses being parked at bus stands while driver breaks take place
- Times for returning to depots from termini
- Finishing times at the depot
The 84 is an exception to this as it is timed at Bray Station.
Apart from this are no official timing points for any bus routes mid-route.
The whole timetable design is predicated on departure times from the terminus. The official line is that the arrival time is 2 minutes before the next departure time (or whatever time the bus is timed to leave to go back to the depot as appropriate).
Now the reality is that the schedulers are making an effort to deliver timetables that:
1) Deliver regular interval departures from the termini
2) Deliver even headway between buses along the route
This can result in buses having longer layovers at their termini in order to maintain both of these goals. People may see this as inefficient, but ultimately the goal has to be to deliver a consistent service all along the bus route. That frankly is more preferable to going as fast as you possibly can.
The schedulers will also build in recovery time for delays en route (although this is not officially stated).
But, until full working timetables are produced with timed points en route, you are going to have a situation where some drivers may decide to take their time if they know that they may have a long wait at the opposite terminus. And when that is introduced, you have the issue of coming up with realistic timings, safe locations to be regulated at, and the need to ensure that at peak times full buses are not held at stops!
Scheduling buses is now an extremely difficult task particularly when you also add in the issue of complying with the EU Working Time Directive.
There is still a long way to go before we actually see a bus service that delivers a properly integrated network. Network Direct was only the first phase of this. The next phase has to be examining headways on each corridor in both directions, and in the case of cross-city routes, perhaps adding extra departures from the city centre where necessary to keep headways constant.0 -
This thread does highlight the manner in which buses are scheduled in Dublin.
There has been an improvement in the scheduling of buses since Network Direct, for example on the Lucan QBC the 25a/25b are scheduled in such a way to offer an integrated service along the core section of the route (from Merrion Square to Foxborough and v.v.), and the 26, 66/a/b and 67 have integrated schedules outbound (every 15 minutes to Leixlip all day, and every 7-8 minutes to Palmerstown).
At the same time in order to come up with RTPI information, full timing estimates for every stop have been produced for every departure on every route. However, these are precisely that- estimates and they are not timetables.
The only real timetables in place are, as cdebru states, the public departure times from the terminus, and (where appropriate) additional entries on the drivers' running boards for:
- Departure times from the depot
- Driver changeovers (can be mid-route)
- Buses being parked at bus stands while driver breaks take place
- Times for returning to depots from termini
- Finishing times at the depot
The 84 is an exception to this as it is timed at Bray Station.
Apart from this are no official timing points for any bus routes mid-route.
The whole timetable design is predicated on departure times from the terminus. The official line is that the arrival time is 2 minutes before the next departure time (or whatever time the bus is timed to leave to go back to the depot as appropriate).
Now the reality is that the schedulers are making an effort to deliver timetables that:
1) Deliver regular interval departures from the termini
2) Deliver even headway between buses along the route
This can result in buses having longer layovers at their termini in order to maintain both of these goals. People may see this as inefficient, but ultimately the goal has to be to deliver a consistent service all along the bus route. That frankly is more preferable to going as fast as you possibly can.
The schedulers will also build in recovery time for delays en route (although this is not officially stated).
But, until full working timetables are produced with timed points en route, you are going to have a situation where some drivers may decide to take their time if they know that they may have a long wait at the opposite terminus. And when that is introduced, you have the issue of coming up with realistic timings, safe locations to be regulated at, and the need to ensure that at peak times full buses are not held at stops!
Scheduling buses is now an extremely difficult task particularly when you also add in the issue of complying with the EU Working Time Directive.
There is still a long way to go before we actually see a bus service that delivers a properly integrated network. Network Direct was only the first phase of this. The next phase has to be examining headways on each corridor in both directions, and in the case of cross-city routes, perhaps adding extra departures from the city centre where necessary to keep headways constant.
Unfortunately integrating the timetable in one direction still leaves you with huge gaps in the other direction as buses travel in convoy due to silly timings, the problem is that DB doesn't have any " professional" schedulers, like you say it is a difficult task to balance all the competing demands and that needs professional people who understand the complexities and can deliver in a timely manner ie not years and years to get a timetable changed.
Timing points seem like a good idea but I suspect the reality would be that they would be timed to slow the fastest of drivers and most buses would never make it to the timing points ahead of schedule, otherwise you risk collapsing the whole timetable once a problem anywhere in route happens, too tight a timing for a terminus doesn't work that's what happened to the 4.0 -
Unfortunately integrating the timetable in one direction still leaves you with huge gaps in the other direction as buses travel in convoy due to silly timings, the problem is that DB doesn't have any " professional" schedulers, like you say it is a difficult task to balance all the competing demands and that needs professional people who understand the complexities and can deliver in a timely manner ie not years and years to get a timetable changed.
Timing points seem like a good idea but I suspect the reality would be that they would be timed to slow the fastest of drivers and most buses would never make it to the timing points ahead of schedule, otherwise you risk collapsing the whole timetable once a problem anywhere in route happens, too tight a timing for a terminus doesn't work that's what happened to the 4.
The whole scheduling process needs a complete overhaul, and that includes being able to correctly interpret data from the AVLC system and to stand back and look at the effect the schedules have on the entire corridor.0 -
The whole scheduling process needs a complete overhaul, and that includes being able to correctly interpret data from the AVLC system and to stand back and look at the effect the schedules have on the entire corridor.
I agree I think schedules should be done on an entire corridor together, it is pointless trying to maintain headways when those headways actually involve buses running in convoys on main corridors, it is basic things like if one terminus is 10 minutes further up the road then having it depart and then 10 minutes later just as it arrives having a bus depart from the second location so that the two if them can travel in convoy till they meet the next bus and then 3 in a convoy and then no bus along the corridor for 30 minutes, crazy stuff0 -
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Shouldn't be driven with no adblue, driver would be liable to a fine of upto €1000 for a first offence if found driving without adblue, you would hope a professional driver wouldn't be silly enough to continue a journey with the bus in limp home mode.
Give me something official on the Adblue fine ~ link etc as this is quite frequent.0 -
The_Wrecker wrote: »Give me something official on the Adblue fine ~ link etc as this is quite frequent.
Google is your friend.
But for the lazy here it is
http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Vehicle%20Std%20Leg/Information%20Notes/Information%20note%20for%20Euro%20IV%20Euro%20V%20and%20Euro%20VI%20Emissions%20Regulations%20for%20Heavy%20Duty%20Vehicles%20%20Feb%202012.pdf
Thats from the RSA page 6Penalties for breach of in-use requirements
Vehicles used on Irish roads are required to meet with the Irelands Construction Equipment and Use Regulations S.I. No. 190 of 1963. CE&U Regulations, prescribe the requirements for all vehicles and trailers in use in a public place in Ireland. This includes provisions for but not limited to; the brake systems, exhaust systems, mirrors, safety belts and side and rear underrun
protection.
These Regulations prescribe the requirements as to the construction,equipment and use of vehicles while being used in a public place and the duties of drivers and passengers are also specified. As well as specific provisions for certain aspects of vehicles, the CE&U also has general provisions requiring that a vehicle is maintained in good and efficient working order, that no danger is likely to be caused and that vehicles are maintained such that their level of noise emitted and their emissions does not increase.
Should a vehicle and all its parts and equipment not be maintained in good and efficient working order, then the operator or owner could be considered to be in breach of Regulation 34 of SI 190 of 1963. With regard to emissions, the regulation specifies that there is a duty of care that a vehicle is maintained in such a way that the health of others is not compromised.
Penalties for breach of this regulation is as follows;
on summary conviction, first offence
– a fine not exceeding €1,000. Second offence under same section/subsection – a fine not exceeding €2,000. Third or subsequent offence under same section/subsection within 12 consecutive months – fine not exceeding €2,000 or imprisonment not exceeding 3 months, or both (ss.11(5) and 102, Road Traffic Act, 1961).
The correct functioning of the emissions control systems including the after-treatment system are the basic requirements for fulfilling the established standards for pollutant emissions.
Tampering with systems which control the level of emissions or driving a vehicle without consumable reagent, could be considered to be in breach of the aforementioned regulations and subject therefore to the penalties listed.
Now I even highlighted the important bits for you ;-)
Oh just in case of any confusion as to what consumable reagents are from page 4 same document
Consumable Reagent (AdBlue)0
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