Buying a car on UK plates

clogher71

Hi all ,

What's the story with buying a car here that's on uk plates, it's here a few years, it's over 30 years old, is it a lot of hassle? Will I have to vrt it straight away, it's 1981, so I guess it's not the 'vintage' rate ?

bbsrs

clogher71 wrote: »

Hi all ,

What's the story with buying a car here that's on uk plates, it's here a few years, it's over 30 years old, is it a lot of hassle? Will I have to vrt it straight away, it's 1981, so I guess it's not the 'vintage' rate ?

It will qualify for vintage vrt €200 , you should clear it within 30 days of entering the state . If you go about it right whenever you clear it you should only
pay €200 .

Capri

And you DON'T tell them it's been here for a few years , you 'just bought it off a chap up North yesterday'

corktina

and a hand written receipt with that date on it

clogher71

Thanks guys, can I put it in my shed and when ever I want to VRT it just make a hand written receipt then?.
I know but it's money, hassle maybe trailering to vrt, time, and coming into silly season.
I don't think it's in it original colour, does the nice vrt people give any hassle if the paperwork said red and the car is now blue?

corktina

starting to sound dodgy now....

whatever you do make sure it is the sellers property to sell and that you get the full V5C in your hand

bbsrs

clogher71 wrote: »

Thanks guys, can I put it in my shed and when ever I want to VRT it just make a hand written receipt then?.
I know but it's money, hassle maybe trailering to vrt, time, and coming into silly season.
I don't think it's in it original colour, does the nice vrt people give any hassle if the paperwork said red and the car is now blue?

Is the original colour obvious to see under the bonnet in the boot etc? If so I wouldn't worry about it, if not you would start to wonder is it a ringer . What model car is it?

clogher71

No guys it's not dodgy, I know the seller, (well to speak to the phone), through work, the car is not advertised anywhere, he has a bit of a collection and wants to downside, make room, I think he has at least 5 of this model between good ones and bad ones, I want to go for nose too !! ;-), if it's as good as he says, I would want to 'mothball' it until I have time and money to put it on the road, vrt, tax, nct , insurance etc, all adds up!

w124man

I suppose this might be a bad time to remind everyone that it is illegal to sell a car in this country that isnt registered in this country!

bbsrs

w124man wrote: »

I suppose this might be a bad time to remind everyone that it is illegal to sell a car in this country that isnt registered in this country!

Out of interest has anyone ever been prosecuted for selling a foreign registered car in the state of Ireland? It's not as if it would be difficult to find offenders ,Done Deal would provide a considerable amount of easy pickings. Or is it as I suspect nobody cares , including me .

mattroche

I cleared one a few weeks ago, it has been in the country 9 years, I got a receipt from the seller, together with the V5, which showed it was sold by the U.K. owner in 2005. All they are concerned with is that the Vin No. match. I would suggest you check the Vin No. & make sure it matches the car. Then pay your E200 V.R.T. to clear it, and declare it "off the road " until you are ready to use it. That way everything is legal & above board. Good luck with your venture.

Silvera

mattroche wrote: »

I cleared one a few weeks ago, it has been in the country 9 years, I got a receipt from the seller, together with the V5, which showed it was sold by the U.K. owner in 2005. All they are concerned with is that the Vin No. match. I would suggest you check the Vin No. & make sure it matches the car. Then pay your E200 V.R.T. to clear it, and declare it "off the road " until you are ready to use it. That way everything is legal & above board. Good luck with your venture.

You might be ok, but will they now pursue the person who sold it to you for vrt penalties?

swarlb

w124man wrote: »

I suppose this might be a bad time to remind everyone that it is illegal to sell a car in this country that isnt registered in this country!

How so ? Is it really against the law to sell, or buy a car with a foreign registration. The only reason I ask, is because I've been doing it for years, and was never under the impression I was breaking a law.

w124man

swarlb wrote: »

How so ? Is it really against the law to sell, or buy a car with a foreign registration. The only reason I ask, is because I've been doing it for years, and was never under the impression I was breaking a law.

Its all here ...

http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/vat/leaflets/vat-and-vrt-on-motor-vehicles.html#section1.2

It is illegal, and always has been, for a private individual to sell/own/drive a car/vehicle that has not been VRT'd / registered in the State. Only the Motor Trade can have vehicles on foreign plates for sale. All these cars for sale by private individuals on Done Deal etc can technically be confiscated by the state. Its all down to the VAT/VRT thing and the legalities of ownership. Generally no body bothers but there are occasions where de Revenue have turned up to a Done Deal ad and removed the car until the fines and VRT have been paid. It tends to happen with higher end yokes or where decent sums are involved.

swarlb

w124man wrote: »

Its all here ...

http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/vat/leaflets/vat-and-vrt-on-motor-vehicles.html#section1.2

It is illegal, and always has been, for a private individual to sell/own/drive a car/vehicle that has not been VRT'd / registered in the State. Only the Motor Trade can have vehicles on foreign plates for sale. All these cars for sale by private individuals on Done Deal etc can technically be confiscated by the state. Its all down to the VAT/VRT thing and the legalities of ownership. Generally no body bothers but there are occasions where de Revenue have turned up to a Done Deal ad and removed the car until the fines and VRT have been paid. It tends to happen with higher end yokes or where decent sums are involved.

Think about it for a minute. And it's actually written above, it is perfectly legal to buy or sell foreign registered cars, depending on what you do for a living.

w124man

swarlb wrote: »

Think about it for a minute. And it's actually written above, it is perfectly legal to buy or sell foreign registered cars, depending on what you do for a living.

It clearly states 'the private individual' is unable to buy or sell foreign registered cars in the state. A motor trader can buy foreign registered cars but has to register them here before he sells them here. The mechanism for this is called VRT!!

mgbgt1978

w124man,
"N.B.: Only authorised motor dealers are entitled to hold unregistered vehicles. If a person other than an authorised dealer obtains a motor vehicle that is not registered in the State, the vehicle must then be registered in his or her own name, and the VRT must be paid at that time."

The above seems to be the only mention of 'non-dealers' on the page linked to.
It definitely makes no mention of it being an offence to purchase a foreign registered vehicle. Simply that upon 'obtaining' one you should then VRT it.

hi5

Just take the wheels off and call it garden art:)

clogher71

bbsrs wrote: »

Is the original colour obvious to see under the bonnet in the boot etc? If so I wouldn't worry about it, if not you would start to wonder is it a ringer . What model car is it?

It's a Mazda RX7, it's sold now to a boardise who I told it was there, I got sorry after hearing about it again, well I was always sorry, I really didn't have the spare cash , but would have robbed Peter to pay Paul for it this time....

swarlb

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

w124man,
"N.B.: Only authorised motor dealers are entitled to hold unregistered vehicles. If a person other than an authorised dealer obtains a motor vehicle that is not registered in the State, the vehicle must then be registered in his or her own name, and the VRT must be paid at that time."

The above seems to be the only mention of 'non-dealers' on the page linked to.
It definitely makes no mention of it being an offence to purchase a foreign registered vehicle. Simply that upon 'obtaining' one you should then VRT it.

That was my point, it is not 'illegal' to buy or own a foreign registered vehicle. For example, if someone had a motoring museum, or they wanted to display the car in a showroom.

w124man

swarlb wrote: »

That was my point, it is not 'illegal' to buy or own a foreign registered vehicle.

But it is ..... if it isnt then why are we all paying VRT ??

corktina

You have to complete VRT documentation within 28 days. The inference is you are not in accordance with the Law if you don't. The only people allowed hold foreign reg cars are authorised car dealers and they may not sell them unless they have been VRTd.

swarlb

w124man wrote: »

But it is ..... if it isnt then why are we all paying VRT ??

I have absolutely no idea.
I've never paid VRT on any car I've bought with foreign number plates. I'll give a simple example.
I bought a car from Holland a few years ago, brought it to my workshop, restored it over a period of time, and sold it to a customer from Spain. If doing that is against the law, well then I'm lawbreaker.

mgbgt1978

w124man wrote: »

But it is ..... if it isnt then why are we all paying VRT ??

You seem to be missing the point here.
The link you quoted does not state that it is against the law to purchase a foreign registered vehicle (you said it is illegal)....simply that you must VRT it after you obtain it.

corktina

so w124man is wrong by not quoting chapter and verse of the Law but is nevertheless right that the Regulation is that a vehicle must be VRTd witihn 28 days ?

Bad w124man.....

mgbgt1978

w124man wrote: »

It clearly states 'the private individual' is unable to buy or sell foreign registered cars in the state.

corktina wrote: »

so w124man is wrong by not quoting chapter and verse of the Law but is nevertheless right that the Regulation is that a vehicle must be VRTd witihn 28 days ?

Bad w124man.....

He's wrong when he says that his link 'clearly states' something which it clearly doesn't.

corktina

yes, i agree, but you accept that you do have to register a car within 28 days?

mgbgt1978

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

w124man,
"N.B.: Only authorised motor dealers are entitled to hold unregistered vehicles. If a person other than an authorised dealer obtains a motor vehicle that is not registered in the State, the vehicle must then be registered in his or her own name, and the VRT must be paid at that time."

The above seems to be the only mention of 'non-dealers' on the page linked to.
It definitely makes no mention of it being an offence to purchase a foreign registered vehicle. Simply that upon 'obtaining' one you should then VRT it.

Sure I pointed that out ages ago.
But W134man seems determined to push his opinion on the legality of buying a foreign registered car, rather than the facts....even after linking to something which did the opposite of backing up his assertion.

The heading for this Thread is 'Buying a car on UK plates'. Not VRT'ing a car on UK plates.

w124man

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

Sure I pointed that out ages ago.
But W134man seems determined to push his opinion on the legality of buying a foreign registered car, rather than the facts....even after linking to something which did the opposite of backing up his assertion.

The heading for this Thread is 'Buying a car on UK plates'. Not VRT'ing a car on UK plates.

I think you need to right back to the first post where the OP asks about buying a car HERE on UK plates and then scroll down to my first post where I stated "I suppose this might be a bad time to remind everyone that it is illegal to SELL a car in this country that isnt registered in this country! "

I'm sorry if my link doesn't "clearly state" for you but it does to many others. I am far from being determined to push my opinion on the legality of buying a foreign registered car, rather the legality of SELLING a foreign registered car in this country and its not my opinion by the way! There is a big difference you know between buying and selling so may I respectfully suggest that you go back and actually read what has been written and the items that have been linked before you reply.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056587109

mgbgt1978

w124man wrote: »

It clearly states 'the private individual' is unable to buy or sell foreign registered cars in the state. A motor trader can buy foreign registered cars but has to register them here before he sells them here. The mechanism for this is called VRT!!

No, it doesn't.
Unless there is something else hidden within the link posted by yourself.

Kamik

Originally Posted by w124man
It clearly states 'the private individual' is unable to buy or sell foreign registered cars in the state.

Yes UNABLE being the defining word here lads!
Nothing legal or illegal defined in that.

A trader may hold a foreign registered vehicle in the state INDEFINITELY!
A private individual is given 7 days to apply for import inspection at the authorized NCTS centres where the inspection must be carried out within 30 days of its entry into the state. (NOT 28)
It is however illegal for a motor trader or anyone registered as a business to sell you a foreign registered vehicle in the state Without registering the vehicle and paying the vrt which he will charge you at the time of sale!

There are a few of these traders prosecuted every year.

swarlb

Kamik wrote: »

Yes UNABLE being the defining word here lads!
Nothing legal or illegal defined in that.

A trader may hold a foreign registered vehicle in the state INDEFINITELY!
A private individual is given 7 days to apply for import inspection at the authorized NCTS centres where the inspection must be carried out within 30 days of its entry into the state. (NOT 28)
It is however illegal for a motor trader or anyone registered as a business to sell you a foreign registered vehicle in the state Without registering the vehicle and paying the vrt which he will charge you at the time of sale!

There are a few of these traders prosecuted every year.

I seem to have set off a hornets nest here. Answer this if possible ?

Is there anything remotely 'illegal' for someone, trader or otherwise, to (as an example) go over to the UK, buy a car, bring it back on a trailer, put it in storage, and at some time in the future, bring the car back to the UK, and sell it ?

Kamik

swarlb wrote: »

I seem to have set off a hornets nest here. Answer this if possible ?

Is there anything remotely 'illegal' for someone, trader or otherwise, to (as an example) go over to the UK, buy a car, bring it back on a trailer, put it in storage, and at some time in the future, bring the car back to the UK, and sell it ?

Absolutely nothing at all, the vintage vehicles guild are doing it annually.
They see Ireland as a more secure state when storing those beauts!
and it must also go back on a trailer!
But once the vehicle has been in the state ABOVE 30 days, and you decide you want to register it and keep it here the VRT will be a LOT higher.

swarlb

Kamik wrote: »

Absolutely nothing at all, the vintage vehicles guild are doing it annually.
They see Ireland as a more secure state when storing those beauts!
and it must also go back on a trailer!
But once the vehicle has been in the state ABOVE 30 days, and you decide you want to register it and keep it here the VRT will be a LOT higher.

And so, back to my original statement, there is nothing illegal about buying or selling a foreign registered car. I hope this clears up the debate.

Kamik

Again absolutely nothing, provided you are not doing it as a trade.

The law that covers this issue is....

Section 136 of the Finance Act of 1992 (as amended) provides that only a Revenue Authorised Trader with a Revenue issued TAN (Trader Account Number) may manufacture, distribute, deal in, deliver, store repair or modify unregistered vehicles and to convert registered vehicles. It is an offence under Section 139(3) to do so if not Authorised, and is liable to a penalty on summary conviction of €5,000.

robtri

swarlb wrote: »

And so, back to my original statement, there is nothing illegal about buying or selling a foreign registered car. I hope this clears up the debate.

have you a TAN number?

corktina

Kamik wrote: »

Again absolutely nothing, provided you are not doing it as a trade.

The law that covers this issue is....

doesn't that quote say the opposite of what you are saying?

swarlb

robtri wrote: »

have you a TAN number?

Don't mean to be rude or anything, but that is nobody's business but mine. As it happens, you don't need a TAN number to buy a foreign registered car, or indeed to sell one.

w124man

swarlb wrote: »

Don't mean to be rude or anything, but that is nobody's business but mine. As it happens, you don't need a TAN number to buy a foreign registered car, or indeed to sell one.

Section 136 of the Finance Act of 1992 (as amended) provides that only a Revenue Authorised Trader with a Revenue issued TAN (Trader Account Number) may manufacture, distribute, deal in, deliver, store repair or modify unregistered vehicles and to convert registered vehicles. It is an offence under Section 139(3) to do so if not Authorised, and is liable to a penalty on summary conviction of €5,000.


I think that the above statement clears it up. 'swarlb', are you blind as well?

robtri

swarlb wrote: »

Don't mean to be rude or anything, but that is nobody's business but mine. As it happens, you don't need a TAN number to buy a foreign registered car, or indeed to sell one.

actually if you buying and selling foreign registered cars it is technically everyones business, as to do so you need a TAN number.. if it is being done illegally then yes it is an issue.

Kamik

swarlb wrote: »

Don't mean to be rude or anything, but that is nobody's business but mine. As it happens, you don't need a TAN number to buy a foreign registered car, or indeed to sell one.

As swarlb is not operating as a TRADER he is 100% correct!
Laws in the state has to be taken as they are worded

So the wording "only a Revenue Authorised Trader with a Revenue issued TAN" means that "Bog tyre services" or "Jimmys Transport Cafe" may not have Vehicles for sale on their forecourt which bear a non Irish Reg.

UNLESS of course they apply for a TAN
(Business reg No. =€20, TAN Registration =€31.75 equivalent of 25 Punts)

Tullamore Pal of mine brings in UK cars one at a time and advertises it on DD, sells it then goes back and get another.
He is within his rights as 1 veh at a time does not constitute a trader! It is a part-time hobby/pastime.
and Yes, he was investigated by revenue and cleared!

corktina

Kamik wrote: »

As swarlb is not operating as a TRADER he is 100% correct!
Laws in the state has to be taken as they are worded

So the wording "only a Revenue Authorised Trader with a Revenue issued TAN" means that "Bog tyre services" or "Jimmys Transport Cafe" may not have Vehicles for sale on their forecourt which bear a non Irish Reg.

UNLESS of course they apply for a TAN
(Business reg No. =€20, TAN Registration =€31.75 equivalent of 25 Punts)

Tullamore Pal of mine brings in UK cars one at a time and advertises it on DD, sells it then goes back and get another.
He is within his rights as 1 veh at a time does not constitute a trader! It is a part-time hobby/pastime.
and Yes, he was investigated by revenue and cleared!

He's not within his rights...it clearly states "only a Revenue Authorised Trader" and he isn't one. I think some of you just read what you want to read. Yes you can go buy a UK car but you must book an appointment within 7 days/ clear within 30 and you are not entitled to sell it to someone else.

w124man

Kamik wrote: »

As swarlb is not operating as a TRADER he is 100% correct!
Laws in the state has to be taken as they are worded

So the wording "only a Revenue Authorised Trader with a Revenue issued TAN" means that "Bog tyre services" or "Jimmys Transport Cafe" may not have Vehicles for sale on their forecourt which bear a non Irish Reg.

UNLESS of course they apply for a TAN
(Business reg No. =€20, TAN Registration =€31.75 equivalent of 25 Punts)

Tullamore Pal of mine brings in UK cars one at a time and advertises it on DD, sells it then goes back and get another.
He is within his rights as 1 veh at a time does not constitute a trader! It is a part-time hobby/pastime.
and Yes, he was investigated by revenue and cleared!

I simply dont believe what Im reading ..... it clearly states that ONLY a Revenue Authourised Trader may manufacture, distribute, deal in, deliver, store, repair or modify unregistered vehicles and to convert registered vehicles.

It is an offence under Section 139(3) to do so if not Authorised, and is liable to a penalty on summary conviction of €5,000.

Which bit of this do you not understand?

Why would the Revenue investigate and clear your Tullamore friend unless he has a TAN? Why am I thinking 'fictitious friend' ??

Kamik

and you are not entitled to sell it to someone else.

as an individual he can but as a trader he may not

Which bit of this do you not understand?

Believe me, i understand it perfectly clear and have experience of it, so allow me to spell it out for you.

Section 136 covers those registered as a TRADER, if you are a TRADER and not Registered for TAN then you can not sell foreign reg.
ABSOLUTELY NO MENTION of a private individual whatsoever!
Think about it, the vat law is EXACTLY the same.
The law states VAT is payable on all goods, both new and used, but i can sell my car to whoever i want without charging them VAT.

Why would the Revenue investigate and clear your Tullamore friend unless he has a TAN?

Quite simple, they suspected he was operating a trade!
.

corktina

Kamik wrote: »

as an individual he can but as a trader he may not


Believe me, i understand it perfectly clear and have experience of it, so allow me to spell it out for you.

Section 136 covers those registered as a TRADER, if you are a TRADER and not Registered for TAN then you can not sell foreign reg.
ABSOLUTELY NO MENTION of a private individual whatsoever!
Think about it, the vat law is EXACTLY the same.
The law states VAT is payable on all goods, both new and used, but i can sell my car to whoever i want without charging them VAT.


Quite simple, they suspected he was operating a trade!
.

no, you are reading what you want to read. ONLY an authorised Trader may hold a car beyond the 30 days on foreign plates.

Kamik

corktina wrote: »

no, you are reading what you want to read. ONLY an authorised Trader may hold a car beyond the 30 days on foreign plates.

Did you see me stating any different??

corktina

yes, you are saying, are you not, that someone who is NOT a trader may hold a foreign car without re-registering it.

Kamik

corktina wrote: »

yes, you are saying, are you not, that someone who is NOT a trader may hold a foreign car without re-registering it.

Please feel free to point out where you read that i stated that.

swarlb

Ok, lets just throw out this scenario as ONE example....
I see for sale something I want... lets us say it's a 1950's Italian racing car, and it's for sale in Belgium. So I contact the seller, and decide see the car in 'person' as it were. So I fly over, check the car out, and make an offer, which is accepted. So I buy the car, and organise to get it home.
Lets say I keep the car for a number of years, and race it at various circuits throughout the world.
Then let's say I get bored, or see a different type of car for sale, maybe an English racing car from the 50's, so I decide to buy the English car, and either sell the Italian one, or use it as a trade in.
What, if anything, is 'illegal' about the above.
All receipts, invoices, VAT (if applicable) are present and correct.

Kamik

Circuit is not public roads and needs no declaration/reg/tax etc.

corktina

posts 35 41 and 44 for starters