Dublin Coach - NEW Waterford - Kilkenny - Dublin Service from 16th December

LXFlyer

From Dublin Coach website:

NEW Waterford - Kilkenny - Dublin Service from 16th December 01/12/2014



Dublin Coach are delighted to announce a new route servicing Kilkenny and Waterford from Dublin, commencing on Tuesday 16th December.
Download the Timetable

JeffK88

Dublin coach really are hitting the market by storm and are really putting pressure on the state companies. They have nearly killed the Portlaoise- Heuston rail service. But as per usual IE /BE response is to increase prices

road_high

Those journey times blow JJ Kavanagh/IR out of the water plus they are very frequent.

jayobray

Any idea of prices yet?

devnull

No prices as of yet, but it seems this service has been announced to compete with JJ Kavanagh who also announced a similar service a few hours earlier although it would clearly have launched anyway.

Dublin Coach will have a lot of work to do since they are starting from scratch, but they did that with the Limerick route and it turned out really well for them.

The JJ Kavanagh service starting in January will be an express route calling at Waterford, Carlow, Dublin and Dublin Airport only with some services starting at Tramore.

See thread here

foggy_lad

lxflyer wrote: »

From Dublin Coach website:

Google maps gives a time of 2 hours and 5 minutes by car doing full motorway speeds most of the journey, I don't see how Dublin Coach can possibly do the same journey in a tri-axle coach limited to 100Kph negotiating heavy city traffic on the narrow streets of Waterford and Kilkenny and selling tickets on board at the three stops as well as serving the Red Cow stop in 2 hours 15 minutes.

Jamie2k9

Not to be negative but they will not sustain 9 daily services however IE will regret cutting those carriages and will lose lots of students!

n97 mini

Very poor experience travelling with JJK last time, so it's good to have an alternative.

Driver was insisting on bypassing the Red Cow stop, and I had to phone head office to get them to get him to stop.

road_high

foggy_lad wrote: »

Google maps gives a time of 2 hours and 5 minutes by car doing full motorway speeds most of the journey, I don't see how Dublin Coach can possibly do the same journey in a tri-axle coach limited to 100Kph negotiating heavy city traffic on the narrow streets of Waterford and Kilkenny and selling tickets on board at the three stops as well as serving the Red Cow stop in 2 hours 15 minutes.

I agree i think very optimistic, especially at certain times of the day. Only thing is they can use the bus lanes.
Assume they have tested and trialled the various routes to measure these times?

JeffK88

What's interesting to me is skipping carlow. I know its prob to do with journey times but with the IT there and town itself been of significant size. Im just thinking it would be the equivalent of skipping either Naas and Newbridge on the Portlaoise route. But then again they have more than likely done their homework and worked out that its not profitable enough to stop there.

LXFlyer

JeffK88 wrote: »

What's interesting to me is skipping carlow. I know its prob to do with journey times but with the IT there and town itself been of significant size. Im just thinking it would be the equivalent of skipping either Naas and Newbridge on the Portlaoise route. But then again they have more than likely done their homework and worked out that its not profitable enough to stop there.

There are already two operators offering express services between Dublin and Carlow - Bus Eireann and JJ Kavanagh (starting January).

The rules prevent any more than two operators on the same route.

JeffK88

Ahh I wasnt aware of that. Makes sense then.

coolperson05

This actually provides a nice morning service to/from Kilkenny and Waterford. Handy for students or workers maybe? Great to see direct routes here finally.

Time seems *extremely* optimistic though!

foggy_lad

road_high wrote: »

I agree i think very optimistic, especially at certain times of the day. Only thing is they can use the bus lanes.
Assume they have tested and trialled the various routes to measure these times?

You might think that they have tested and trialled and they probably have but will most likely have been overly optimistic with their timings to promote business. Also depending on the time of day or evening using the bus lanes can be worse than staying out in the traffic lanes because the Dublin buses travel at a much slower speed and stop every few hundred metres.

JeffK88 wrote: »

What's interesting to me is skipping carlow. I know its prob to do with journey times but with the IT there and town itself been of significant size. Im just thinking it would be the equivalent of skipping either Naas and Newbridge on the Portlaoise route. But then again they have more than likely done their homework and worked out that its not profitable enough to stop there.

The IT is possible the biggest bottleneck in Carlow! it is a huge money spinner but it spins ever so slowly as tickets must be printed off for passengers, most of whom won't have their money or student card ready or will all have €50 notes and the driver won't have change and depending on the buses used they might have issues with loading luggage at the IT on Fridays. better off skipping Carlow!

s8080

JeffK88 wrote: »

Dublin coach really are hitting the market by storm and are really putting pressure on the state companies. They have nearly killed the Portlaoise- Heuston rail service. But as per usual IE /BE response is to increase prices

who sets IE/BE prices?
the NTA, i wonder why they are higher,hmmm

LXFlyer

JeffK88 wrote: »

Ahh I wasnt aware of that. Makes sense then.

Basically you will have:

Dublin Coach:
Express: Dublin - Kilkenny - Waterford


JJ Kavanagh:
Express: Dublin Airport - Dublin - Carlow - Waterford

Semi-fast: Dublin Airport - Dublin - Carlow (Express); Then Stopping service via Thomastown to Waterford

Semi-fast: Dublin Airport - Dublin - Naas - Carlow (Stopping) then Express to Waterford

Stopping: Dublin Airport - Dublin - Naas - Carlow - Thomastown - Waterford

Stopping: Dublin Airport - Dublin - Naas - Athy - Kilkenny - Clonmel


Bus Eireann:
Express: Waterford - Kilkenny - Carlow - Dublin - Dublin Airport

Semi-fast: Dublin Airport - Dublin - Carlow (Express); Then Stopping service via Thomastown to Waterford

Stopping: Dublin - Naas - Athy - Kilkenny - Carrick-on-Suir - Clonmel

s8080

JeffK88 wrote: »

But then again they have more than likely done their homework and worked out that its not profitable enough to stop there.

do you think this is a level playing field for BE to compete on?

LXFlyer

s8080 wrote: »

who sets IE/BE prices?
the NTA, i wonder why they are higher,hmmm

Bus Eireann Expressway prices are set by the company.

s8080

lxflyer wrote: »

Bus Eireann Expressway prices are set by the company.

who set the IE fares?

LXFlyer

s8080 wrote: »

who set the IE fares?

The NTA - I was just correcting your earlier post.

Jamie2k9

Lets call a spade a spade. IE set their fares however they must be approved by the NTA and in most cases are however sometimes they don't allow IE to go as high as they would like.

hfallada

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Lets call a spade a spade. IE set their fares however they must be approved by the NTA and in most cases are however sometimes they don't allow IE to go as high as they would like.

Well with the amount of money that Dublin Bus and IE loss, I seriously doubt there is anyone with a business or economics degree in the company. I could say there is a someone with a marketing degree, but most ads look like they were done in 5 mins on word and literally state the obvious.

Most major companies set their prices but looking at the price elasticity of demand. They see if we increase of price by x %, how much will sales fall by x%. For cigarettes companies, since they sell an addictive product with unbelievable consumer loyalty( you cant get most smokers to switch brands even with millions spent on ads). So a massive increase generally has a small fall in sales. But with milk companies, if you double your price tomorrow.No will buy your milk as everyone will buy the competitors as they are the same.

BE needs to see their price elasticity of demand eg because if they increase their prices by 10% on routes with competitors on it. Sales could fall by 20% as people move to competitors. Their fare increase to make more money, but could end up resulting in sales revenue falling as everyone switches to competitors.

Jamie2k9

Have CIE taken over the running of DublinCoach :rolleyes:

Just days off and no fares and most likely not a single advertisement of the new service!

smncnnr

Fares only seem to be available on their Facebook page.

highlydebased

Fares were on site yesterday but look to have disappeared. Was 20 return Waterford-Dublin and 10 return Kk-Waterford

devnull

https://scontent-b-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/t31.0-8/s960x960/10845880_744733032275340_3927969867186591057_o.jpg

road_high

Seen a few of the buses out on the M9 the past few days and at a quicky glance I've not seen any passengers on any of them :eek:
I don't think it's been marketed all that wll yet. Apart from Facebook and comments here, I don't think the general public would know it existed yet.

foggy_lad

road_high wrote: »

Seen a few of the buses out on the M9 the past few days and at a quicky glance I've not seen any passengers on any of them :eek:
I don't think it's been marketed all that wll yet. Apart from Facebook and comments here, I don't think the general public would know it existed yet.

The service started on the 16th and haven't heard anything about it in Carlow, Also the bus Éireann Waterford service is as busy as ever for the Christmas.

schemingbohemia

foggy_lad wrote: »

The service started on the 16th and haven't heard anything about it in Carlow, Also the bus Éireann Waterford service is as busy as ever for the Christmas.

It's not serving Carlow though so why would it be promoted there?

foggy_lad

schemingbohemia wrote: »

It's not serving Carlow though so why would it be promoted there?

Well people in Carlow never stopped talking about the service for months before it started and seemed to think it would finish off all other public transport in the area. just odd that nobody here has anything to say about it now that it doesn't serve Carlow.

I can't see them doing very well as the routing is kind of odd and non-direct. The timings are a work of fiction and the 007 bus to/from Clonmel already serves Kilkenny and also Naas and Kilcullen as well as Clonmel etc I don't see there being so much demand for a direct non stop service from Waterford or Bus Eireann would be putting on more extra buses on the 004 service.

VWD8

Bus Eireann have allocated higher capacity coaches to the Waterford service in recent weeks to cater for high loads.

mickydoomsux

foggy_lad wrote: »

The service started on the 16th and haven't heard anything about it in Carlow,

The aren't taking free travel so stopping Carlow would be a bit of a waste of time and effort.

road_high

mickydoomsux wrote: »

The aren't taking free travel so stopping Carlow would be a bit of a waste of time and effort.

Ouch :D:D

Victor

mickydoomsux wrote: »

The aren't taking free travel so stopping Carlow would be a bit of a waste of time and effort.

Constructive posts only please.

Implying everyone in Carlow (or anywhere else) has a free travel pass is inappropriate.

Please read the charter

Moderator.

Red Silurian

They were as quiet when they started the Limerick - Dublin route, however recently they had to start running extra services on Sundays and Fridays to keep up with demand!

Jamie2k9

Anyone know how they are doing, have saw largely empty buses or almost empty ones even at busy times i.e. Friday afternoon!

foggy_lad

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Anyone know how they are doing, have saw largely empty buses or almost empty ones even at busy times i.e. Friday afternoon!

Saw a bus at the red cow at about 8.20pm the other night and it had nobody on it heading to Kilkenny and Waterford, the 9.20pm JJ kavanagh buses to clonmel and Carlow/Waterford were about 2/3rds full, but they serve the airport and the Dublin coach bus doesn't.

Banjoxed

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Anyone know how they are doing, have saw largely empty buses or almost empty ones even at busy times i.e. Friday afternoon!

The passengers must be all on the train

linny

Noticed a bus yesterday in Kilkenny heading North to Dublin. And seen over half full. And another 10 people in que waiting to board. Seems to be taking off now

foggy_lad

linny wrote: »

Noticed a bus yesterday in Kilkenny heading North to Dublin. And seen over half full. And another 10 people in que waiting to board. Seems to be taking off now

It is a big improvement in Kilkenny where the only option previously was the train which is quite slow to the city centre and the bus eireann 007 and JJ Kavanagh's bus from clonmel.

What time was the bus you saw yesterday?

Jamie2k9

Banjoxed wrote: »

The passengers must be all on the train

Well they are to Waterford anyway, make off Kilkenny is doing better than Waterford!

LXFlyer

It's always going to take time to build up custom on new services like this.

When Aircoach launched their Dublin-Cork service and Dublin Coach their Dublin-Limerick route, we had exactly the same posts suggesting very few people were using them.

You need to give any new service six months to bed in properly.

Jamie2k9

lxflyer wrote: »

It's always going to take time to build up custom on new services like this.

When Aircoach launched their Dublin-Cork service and Dublin Coach their Dublin-Limerick route, we has exactly the same posts suggesting very few people were using them.

You need to give any new service six months to bed in properly.

You have a fair point but I don't think the same level of demand for service is there currently.

LXFlyer

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

You have a fair point but I don't think the same level of demand for service is there currently.

Again, you cannot make that judgment this soon - it takes time for any new service to build up custom and word of mouth to spread.

Get In There

Getting the 10am coach down from D'Olier Street on Saturday; according to their website I'll be in Waterford at 12:15. I've never used their service before. Those who have; what time should I realistically expect to arrive?

Jamie2k9

Get In There wrote: »

Getting the 10am coach down from D'Olier Street on Saturday; according to their website I'll be in Waterford at 12:15. I've never used their service before. Those who have; what time should I realistically expect to arrive?

Have never used them but 2h15m is very doable, worst case 12.30 at latest.

Crumbs868

Had an interesting conversation with a guy in a pub a few weeks ago. He reckons that free travel pass holders are nervous that this service will eventually lead to BE cutting back their service so their is an effort to talk this service down hoping it will have to close.

foggy_lad

Crumbs868 wrote: »

Had an interesting conversation with a guy in a pub a few weeks ago. He reckons that free travel pass holders are nervous that this service will eventually lead to BE cutting back their service so their is an effort to talk this service down hoping it will have to close.

Why would bus Eireann put brand new coaches with extra capacity on their Waterford to Dublin route as well as putting better and newer buses on the clonmel 007 route if they were thinking or planning to curtail either service?

Maybe you should chose your barflys more carefully as this one had a few over the limit to make any sense:-D or consider that the pub/canteen is not the best place to pick up information or nws on public transport.

Banjoxed

foggy_lad wrote: »

Why would bus Eireann put brand new coaches with extra capacity on their Waterford to Dublin route as well as putting better and newer buses on the clonmel 007 route if they were thinking or planning to curtail either service?

Maybe you should chose your barflys more carefully as this one had a few over the limit to make any sense:-D or consider that the pub/canteen is not the best place to pick up information or nws on public transport.

Or message boards!

Crumbs868

foggy_lad wrote: »

Why would bus Eireann put brand new coaches with extra capacity on their Waterford to Dublin route as well as putting better and newer buses on the clonmel 007 route if they were thinking or planning to curtail either service?

Maybe you should chose your barflys more carefully as this one had a few over the limit to make any sense:-D or consider that the pub/canteen is not the best place to pick up information or nws on public transport.

His theory was in years to come(afaik buses have a shelf life). The only reason I paid head to him was I have also noticed that there has been a lot of negative talk about this new service from free pass holders

foggy_lad

Crumbs868 wrote: »

His theory was in years to come(afaik buses have a shelf life). The only reason I paid head to him was I have also noticed that there has been a lot of negative talk about this new service from free pass holders

Ah so when these new buses wear out that will be the end of it for bus Eireann in waterford? Also I personally wouldn't know how free pass holders feel about either service as generally they are hard to spot or distinguish from other bus passengers. Where have you noticed the negative talk from pass holders and how did you identity them as pass holders?

All I have heard about it lately is that it is very quiet and that people don't trust the times especially going through Kilkenny city at busy times. There was some Carlow people worried before the service started but that was down to a bus Eireann driver spouting lies and nonsense on the 004 service about how Dublin coach were taking over that route and free passes would not be accepted anymore. This same driver used to tell his passengers not to book with JJ kavanaghs as they might not be in business for the return journey!