Bus fares go up again

Sf7807

Again!!! 147.5for30days. ,that 5.91per day.who know any EU city higher then this?

mrDerek

i know its ridiculous not only that falling oil prices means they should be able to absorb the inflation a little where do they get off charging 1.95 for 3 stages

AlekSmart

mrDerek wrote: »

i know its ridiculous not only that falling oil prices means they should be able to absorb the inflation a little where do they get off charging 1.95 for 3 stages

It's even more ridiculous that somebody would choose to pay €1.95 when the could make the journey for €1.50.....ridiculous is putting it mildly :rolleyes:

n97 mini

Maybe they've no choice.

I only make two journeys, one is 13+ stages, the other is 4 stages. Annoying, but expected, that both have gone up again.

AlekSmart

n97 mini wrote: »

Maybe they've no choice.

I only make two journeys, one is 13+ stages, the other is 4 stages. Annoying, but expected, that both have gone up again.

No choice ? between choosing to pay €1.95 cash or €1.50 Leap....surely the choice is freely available to all.

Some you win....€2.15 down to €2.05 ....some you lose €2.50 up to €2.60 and €1.95 to €2.05.....although if within the Leap90 Transfer window...the second would be €1.05.

Is this two journeys each way,ie: 4 journeys per day ?

Sf7807

AlekSmart wrote: »

No choice ? between choosing to pay €1.95 cash or €1.50 Leap....surely the choice is freely available to all.

Some you win....€2.15 down to €2.05 ....some you lose €2.50 up to €2.60 and €1.95 to €2.05.....although if within the Leap90 Transfer window...the second would be €1.05.

Is this two journeys each way,ie: 4 journeys per day ?

Most people live in d15 ,22,16,24 use bus to work in city.how much they pay for. 6euro a day with leap card , that much more then driving the car,I mean this is public bus not taxi.

John Mason

It's cheaper for me to drive to work rather than use public transport.

Crazy situation

AlekSmart

John Mason wrote: »

It's cheaper for me to drive to work rather than use public transport.

Crazy situation

And that,for the moment remains an option open to you,so where's the problem with that ?

AlekSmart

Sf7807 wrote: »

Most people live in d15 ,22,16,24 use bus to work in city.how much they pay for. 6euro a day with leap card , that much more then driving the car,I mean this is public bus not taxi.

Well paying as they go with Leapcard,the maximum these D15,22,16,24 folks will have to pay on any 1 day is €6.90. (€5 if a student,€2.50 if a child up to 19 years of age)

Depending on the exact trip,it could be as low as €5.20 if we factor in only two journeys.

I don't know what type of Car you're speaking of,but if one factors in some associated motoring costs,such as parking,fuel,insurance and whatever then the comparison may be less valid ?

Amirani

John Mason wrote: »

It's cheaper for me to drive to work rather than use public transport.

Crazy situation

Presume you're outside Dublin?

With Leap capping, the most you could pay for buses in a year is 1400. Don't think that can be beaten with a car.

Captain Chaos

AlekSmart wrote: »

I don't know what type of Car you're speaking of,but if one factors in some associated motoring costs,such as parking,fuel,insurance and whatever then the comparison may be less valid ?

Take for example most people own a car anyway because at weekends public transport times are terrible and it does run early enough and for general emergencies etc.

Me for example, the car is cheaper just comparing fuel costs to weekly capped Leap fares. I have free parking so not a factor. Also I can get to work in 35-40mins driving vs 1hr 50min - 2hrs on public transport.

I need a car for weekends as the first bus/train is 9am on Sunday, I need one at 6am.

€20 petrol can get me to and from work for a week versus €40 using my Leap card hitting the cap within 5 days.

Victor

Captain Chaos wrote: »

€20 petrol can get me to and from work for a week versus €40 using my Leap card hitting the cap within 5 days.

You do realise that days 6 and 7 would be free? And it would only hit €40 if you use bus, Luas and train.

What sort of trip do you make? Neighbourhood to neighbourhood, no need for exact details.

LXFlyer

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Take for example most people own a car anyway because at weekends public transport times are terrible and it does run early enough and for general emergencies etc.

Me for example, the car is cheaper just comparing fuel costs to weekly capped Leap fares. I have free parking so not a factor. Also I can get to work in 35-40mins driving vs 1hr 50min - 2hrs on public transport.

I need a car for weekends as the first bus/train is 9am on Sunday, I need one at 6am.

€20 petrol can get me to and from work for a week versus €40 using my Leap card hitting the cap within 5 days.

Public transport will never suit everyone - there are always going to be exceptions. It will depend on the length of your commute, where you are going, and how often you travel. All it can do is try to meet the needs of the majority of people.

I'm guessing that your trip to/from work involves an orbital journey of sorts?

As for your Sunday example, well I think I'd be fairly sure that the numbers of people needing a service at 06:00 on a Sunday would be fairly small. Looking at the LUAS at 07:00 would confirm this. But, that being said, I do believe that there ought to be earlier services on each QBC from about 07:00.

Mrs OBumble

Sf7807 wrote: »

Most people live in d15 ,22,16,24 use bus to work in city.how much they pay for. 6euro a day with leap card , that much more then driving the car,I mean this is public bus not taxi.

Where have they found such fantastically cheap parking?

the groutch

Sf7807 wrote: »

Again!!! 147.5for30days. ,that 5.91per day.who know any EU city higher then this?

it's actually €4.91 per day.

and if you're working you could check if your employer is part of the Taxsaver scheme, could knock the cost way down.

Spanish Eyes

God the Leap card can go down very quickly!

I am an occasional user. Have both 30 day rambler and cash purse loaded on.

If I am making multiple trips on the same day I use the rambler. If only going in and out of town use the purse.

But I loaded 50 quid on there two weeks ago, that topped it up to 70, now it's 48 Aaaagh!

I know it's a perception thing, and I have it worked out, I think, but honestly It's savage, no matter what way you look at it.

n97 mini

AlekSmart wrote: »

No choice ? between choosing to pay €1.95 cash or €1.50 Leap....surely the choice is freely available to all.

If the bus is in front of you and you have no Leap card on you, as is the case with many people who don't live in Dublin when they visit. Other reasons is you have to spend €10 (or is it €15?) on a Leap card+topup to make a €1.50 journey. €1.95 is the easy option.

AlekSmart wrote: »

Some you win....€2.15 down to €2.05 ....some you lose €2.50 up to €2.60 and €1.95 to €2.05.....although if within the Leap90 Transfer window...the second would be €1.05.

Is this two journeys each way,ie: 4 journeys per day ?

I make a regular 13+ stage return journey (work) and a regular 4 stage journey (pub). Both have gone up.

Lapin

mrDerek wrote: »

............ where do they get off charging 1.95 for 3 stages

n97 mini wrote: »

I only make two journeys, one is 13+ stages, the other is 4 stages.

Excuse my ignorance here but what are 'stages'?

I don't use Dublin Bus but I've seen the word used in relation to bus fares there before.

I'm assuming there aren't 13+ seperate fares applying to one route and know they aren't zones like they have in London. Dublin isn't that big.

So what are they, and how would a visitor to Dublin identify with them?

LXFlyer

n97 mini wrote: »

If the bus is in front of you and you have no Leap card on you, as is the case with many people who don't live in Dublin when they visit. Other reasons is you have to spend €10 (or is it €15?) on a Leap card+topup to make a €1.50 journey. €1.95 is the easy option.

I make a regular 13+ stage return journey (work) and a regular 4 stage journey (pub). Both have gone up.

Ultimately more and more people are going to have a LEAP card as it is rolled out nationwide, but as this is being done in phases you are never going to please everyone.


There are always going to be winners and losers unfortunately when fares are adjusted both ways. You're just unlucky with your particular journeys.
Other people are gaining (8/13 stage travellers and outer suburban) but everyone else is paying more.

OK - your work trips should cost €26 using LEAP, and then the cap will kick in after the next fare. In fact your weekly outlay should not change as the cap limits have remained constant.

LXFlyer

Lapin wrote: »

Excuse my ignorance here but what are 'stages'?

I don't use Dublin Bus but I've seen the word used in relation to bus fares there before.

I'm assuming there aren't 13+ seperate fares applying to one route and know they aren't zones like they have in London. Dublin isn't that big.

So what are they, and how would a visitor to Dublin identify with them?

Fare stages are a means for calculating fares for bus journeys.

Look at any timetable on the Dublin Bus website and the fare stages for that route are listed there. They are bus stops along the route.

Example: Route 46a

Fares are set for adults on the basis of:

Cash:
1/3 stages
4/7 stages
8/13 stages
Over 13 stages

LEAP:
1/3 stages
4/13 stages
Over 13 stages

You calculate the fare as follows:

Stages

The number of stages travelled is calculated by deducting the boarding stage number from the alighting stage number
1. Passengers boarding between stage points pay the appropriate fare from the preceding stage point. Passengers alighting between stage points pay the appropriate fare to the next stage point.

So for example on route 46a, if you travel from D'Olier Street to Donnybrook Church, you're travelling from stage 25 to stage 32, that's 7 stages (it would be from stage 68 to stage 75 in the opposite direction).

There's no set distance between stages, they are pretty much historic from over 50 years ago. However, the stage system does try to make sure that where two routes (A and operate along parallel corridors, and route A then crosses over to join route B on the other corridor, that a person travelling on route A to beyond the point where the routes meet is not penalised for travelling that little bit longer.

For example the 46a and 47 have exactly the same number of stages to Nutley Lane from the city centre, despite taking different routes to get there (46a via Leeson Street and Donnybrook, and the 47 via Ringsend and Sandymount).

The real problem is that some genius many moons ago removed the stage markings from the bus stops themselves, so now the only record is the timetables.

Lapin

Cheers, but Jesus thats a very convoluted structure. Not at all user friendly.

Give me plain old zones 1-6 anyday.

LXFlyer

Lapin wrote: »

Cheers, but Jesus thats a very convoluted structure. Not at all user friendly.

Give me plain old zones 1-6 anyday.

I would expect that in the medium to long term we will see the entire fare structure overhauled. But at the moment, the company's finances are in such a bad condition, that it would be too much of a jolt to do that.

So, unfortunately, what we are seeing is piecemeal changes each year.

In itself, the fare stage structure is not that bad, and in practice is pretty fair and actually reasonably easy to figure out (if the on-street markings were present), but it does not lend itself to modern ticketing methods, and that is a massive shortfall.

John Mason

Diego Simeone wrote: »

Presume you're outside Dublin?

With Leap capping, the most you could pay for buses in a year is 1400. Don't think that can be beaten with a car.

Nope, i am in Dublin City. Petrol costs 40e a month, which is 480e a year.

petrol 480
Insurance 256
Tax 100

i would much prefer to use the bus but with cost and the crap service, i will be driving for the foreseeable future

Amirani

John Mason wrote: »

Nope, i am in Dublin City. Petrol costs 40e a month, which is 480e a year.

petrol 480
Insurance 256
Tax 100

i would much prefer to use the bus but with cost and the crap service, i will be driving for the foreseeable future

You should probably include the cost of the car (or the yearly depreciation), the cost of repairs and the cost of parking (if applicable). However, your 3 costs above are already pretty low - 40 per month for petrol is doing really well, so it might not apply so much in your case.

.G.

I put 40e a week in our car and it only goes to the school and back twice a day everyday and tescos on a friday! 40 a month is magical!

monument

The sooner Dublin services go cashless the better.

coylemj

Lapin wrote: »

Cheers, but Jesus thats a very convoluted structure. Not at all user friendly.

Give me plain old zones 1-6 anyday.

The London system is easy to understand because the zones are shown on all the network maps. However the fare system in London effectively penalises you for travelling into the city centre so two passengers travelling exactly the same distance will pay much different fares if (e.g.) one is travelling from zone 2 to 3 and the other from zone 2 to 1.

At least the Dublin system is (more or less) based on distance travelled instead of incorporating what is effectively a congestion charge for commuters in London.

LXFlyer

monument wrote: »

The sooner Dublin services go cashless the better.

That won't happen until (at the very least) contactless bank cards become the norm, and that's some way off here yet.

_Kaiser_

lxflyer wrote: »

Public transport will never suit everyone - there are always going to be exceptions. It will depend on the length of your commute, where you are going, and how often you travel. All it can do is try to meet the needs of the majority of people.

I'm guessing that your trip to/from work involves an orbital journey of sorts?

I keep seeing this used as justification for the increasingly poor value for money (and not just in raw cash terms) offered by Dublin Bus.

The reality is that with property and rental prices in particular on the up, more and more people are once again going to be pushed to the outer suburbs and beyond and forced to commute to jobs that are still in Dublin. Most of these journeys will not be simple A-B in a straight line trips.

It seems to me that DB would be better off restructuring its services to meet the actual requirements of its customers - not what it thinks those are, or what suit its own current setup.

DB has been awful for decades.. unreliable, slow, variable staff quality, unnecessarily complicated fare and stage structures, no standard night services, ridiculously late starting times on a Sunday etc, and despite buying (and then unnecessarily disposing of) new buses every 12 years and unnecessary gimmicks like Wi-Fi and (again) variable RTPI systems very little has changed in those core areas - areas I'd wager most customers are far more concerned about than DB's shiny toys.

Basically what I'm asking is exactly how long are the public supposed to wait for a flexible, reliable and cost-effective efficient bus service in Dublin?

We see constant comparisons to other operators in the UK and beyond so it's not like this stuff is uncharted territory or rocket science... but in true Irish form we seem determined to plod away regardless making the same mistakes and messes that we should be avoiding simply by learning from others.

It's not enough to still be blaming the customer because his/her needs don't fit the current DB business plan - it's the plan that needs to change, not the other way around!

cdebru

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I keep seeing this used as justification for the increasingly poor value for money (and not just in raw cash terms) offered by Dublin Bus.

The reality is that with property and rental prices in particular on the up, more and more people are once again going to be pushed to the outer suburbs and beyond and forced to commute to jobs that are still in Dublin. Most of these journeys will not be simple A-B in a straight line trips.

It seems to me that DB would be better off restructuring its services to meet the actual requirements of its customers - not what it thinks those are, or what suit its own current setup.

DB has been awful for decades.. unreliable, slow, variable staff quality, unnecessarily complicated fare and stage structures, no standard night services, ridiculously late starting times on a Sunday etc, and despite buying (and then unnecessarily disposing of) new buses every 12 years and unnecessary gimmicks like Wi-Fi and (again) variable RTPI systems very little has changed in those core areas - areas I'd wager most customers are far more concerned about than DB's shiny toys.

Basically what I'm asking is exactly how long are the public supposed to wait for a flexible, reliable and cost-effective efficient bus service in Dublin?

We see constant comparisons to other operators in the UK and beyond so it's not like this stuff is uncharted territory or rocket science... but in true Irish form we seem determined to plod away regardless making the same mistakes and messes that we should be avoiding simply by learning from others.

It's not enough to still be blaming the customer because his/her needs don't fit the current DB business plan - it's the plan that needs to change, not the other way around!

Like how ?

Good buses you complain they have good buses

WiFi you complain they have WiFi

A company that is in financial difficulty you want services when there is little to no demand like early sunday and late night.

You dont want simple A to B trips but then complain that it is slow

Lastly the fare and stage structure is set by the NTA, DB applied years ago to simplify the fare structure but the DOT said no, that was before the NTA even existed.


So what are the actual requirements of its customers ? Examples based on facts please, not simple pointing out buses start late on Sundays nonsense, because anyone who has ever been up and out early on a Sunday other a a couple of weeks before Christmas knows this city is dead on Sunday mornings even the buses at 9 am are empty and it is normally around noon before any life really kicks off.
But I'm all for providing a service but who will pay for running empty buses all night and early Sunday morning ?

I think its easy to sit and spout cliches about flexible, reliable and cost effective services but give details what should the fares be, how should the service be funded, how should it be flexible ? How can you improve reliability ? stick to stuff DB can do no, more bus lanes or more enforcement etc because all of that is outside of DB control so imagine Pascal rang you in the morning and you are DB CEO, what exactly would you do ?

Remember you have to deal with at least 6 local authorities, the NTA, the DOT, the Gardai, local politicians, national politicians, local interest groups, resident associations, 7 or 8 different trade unions and the passengers currently using the service so try and keep your plans based on some form of reality.

LXFlyer

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I keep seeing this used as justification for the increasingly poor value for money (and not just in raw cash terms) offered by Dublin Bus.

The reality is that with property and rental prices in particular on the up, more and more people are once again going to be pushed to the outer suburbs and beyond and forced to commute to jobs that are still in Dublin. Most of these journeys will not be simple A-B in a straight line trips.

It seems to me that DB would be better off restructuring its services to meet the actual requirements of its customers - not what it thinks those are, or what suit its own current setup.

DB has been awful for decades.. unreliable, slow, variable staff quality, unnecessarily complicated fare and stage structures, no standard night services, ridiculously late starting times on a Sunday etc, and despite buying (and then unnecessarily disposing of) new buses every 12 years and unnecessary gimmicks like Wi-Fi and (again) variable RTPI systems very little has changed in those core areas - areas I'd wager most customers are far more concerned about than DB's shiny toys.

Basically what I'm asking is exactly how long are the public supposed to wait for a flexible, reliable and cost-effective efficient bus service in Dublin?

We see constant comparisons to other operators in the UK and beyond so it's not like this stuff is uncharted territory or rocket science... but in true Irish form we seem determined to plod away regardless making the same mistakes and messes that we should be avoiding simply by learning from others.

It's not enough to still be blaming the customer because his/her needs don't fit the current DB business plan - it's the plan that needs to change, not the other way around!

I am not blaming anyone.

I'm pointing out that planning orbital services is extremely difficult, as virtually every individual trip is different - i.e. they have different starting and finishing points.

I think people do have unrealistic expectations of what orbital services can do.

The best that can be done (and there certainly be an improvement) is to plan bus routes along main east/west arteries in the north and south, and north/south in the west.

We do clearly need more - split the 75 into the proposed 75 and 175 between Dun Laoghaire and Tallaght, add the 166 along the outer ring road between Tallaght and Liffey Valley, beef up the 76a into an all day service between Tallaght and Blanchardstown serving business parks, increase the 239 and perhaps add a service along Griffith Avenue. The problem is lack of cash - all of this requires more buses and staff, which the company don't have.

However, even with doing that you are still going to have lots of people who potentially would have to get a bus to that artery, then get on the orbital service, and potentially get a third bus to their place of work.

No one is going to give up their car for that, and I'd wager many wouldn't even for a single bus transfer.

Hence my comment about how public transport cannot please everyone, and how the companies have to try to please the maximum number of people possible.

But of course, if you have a simple way of providing public transport for all these people making completely different individual trips, then by all means let us know.

Dravokivich

cdebru wrote: »

So what are the actual requirements of its customers ? Examples based on facts please, not simple pointing out buses start late on Sundays nonsense, because anyone who has ever been up and out early on a Sunday other a a couple of weeks before Christmas knows this city is dead on Sunday mornings even the buses at 9 am are empty and it is normally around noon before any life really kicks off.
But I'm all for providing a service but who will pay for running empty buses all night and early Sunday morning ?

Its one thing about consumers, you don't need a high service rate at that time. But there's people believe it or not who would tend to have to get in at some stage on a Sunday morning to work.

monument

lxflyer wrote: »

That won't happen until (at the very least) contactless bank cards become the norm, and that's some way off here yet.

Sorry, but the lack of contactless bank cards did not hold others back.

cdebru

Dravokivich wrote: »

Its one thing about consumers, you don't need a high service rate at that time. But there's people believe it or not who would tend to have to get in at some stage on a Sunday morning to work.

Of course there are but the numbers are so low that running a bus service for them would be extremely costly, so how would it be paid for ?

LXFlyer

monument wrote: »

Sorry, but the lack of contactless bank cards did not hold others back.

Well I think you'll find that's what they waited for in London.

You need to be realistic about this - for buses to be cashless the system needs to be as user friendly as possible. Doing it without having contactless bank cards would be a recipe for disaster. LEAP is growing in popularity, but there needs to be a second option for that to work.

LXFlyer

cdebru wrote: »

Of course there are but the numbers are so low that running a bus service for them would be extremely costly, so how would it be paid for ?

I don't think anyone expects high frequencies, but at the very least I don't think it unreasonable to expect a 30 minute frequency on each QBC (one core route on each) from 7am on Sundays, ramping up slowly from 9am as at present.

n97 mini

lxflyer wrote: »

OK - your work trips should cost €26 using LEAP, and then the cap will kick in after the next fare. In fact your weekly outlay should not change as the cap limits have remained constant.

I don't use the bus to and from work 5 days a week so I don't hit the cap.

n97 mini

lxflyer wrote: »

Ultimately more and more people are going to have a LEAP card as it is rolled out nationwide,

While this is true the vast majority of those outside Dublin have no reason to buy a Leap card as they never use public transport. I have several friends in this situation who decline to buy a Leap card for the odd time they in Dublin for whatever reason (concert, match, hospital appointment etc)

munchkin_utd

Sf7807 wrote: »

Again!!! 147.5for30days. ,that 5.91per day.who know any EU city higher then this?

thats cheap as you are quoting a 30day rambler which actually does you for SIX working weeks - and in practice possibly longer as you dont use the card for any days you dont travel.

For comparison which the OP has asked for, the equivalent (can get you to the likes of Maynooth) day ticket in Munich would cost you €11,70 per day so almost exactly double what youre paying in Dublin.

So at least one EU city is double the cost of Dublin.

LXFlyer

n97 mini wrote: »

While this is true the vast majority of those outside Dublin have no reason to buy a Leap card as they never use public transport. I have several friends in this situation who decline to buy a Leap card for the odd time they in Dublin for whatever reason (concert, match, hospital appointment etc)

Well then unfortunately they are going to have to pay the higher fares.

n97 mini

munchkin_utd wrote: »

For comparison which the OP has asked for, the equivalent (can get you to the likes of Maynooth) day ticket in Munich would cost you €11,70 per day so almost exactly double what youre paying in Dublin.

So at least one EU city is double the cost of Dublin.

Otoh Edinburgh monthly travel pass is £51, covers buses, trams, all night buses and airlink.

munchkin_utd

n97 mini wrote: »

Otoh Edinburgh monthly travel pass is £51, covers buses, trams, all night buses and airlink.

unfortunately not really comparible as the area covered by the Edinburgh pass is way smaller than Dublin, and a monthly pass is not the same as a 30 (non consecutive) day pass that would do you for 6working weeks

The Dublin bus ticket covers you for crosstown journies double the length of Edinburgh and even for city centre journies, something like Maynoth into the city is double the distance of an Edinburgh suburb to the centre there.

Dravokivich

munchkin_utd wrote: »

unfortunately not really comparible as the area covered by the Edinburgh pass is way smaller than Dublin, and a monthly pass is not the same as a 30 (non consecutive) day pass that would do you for 6working weeks

The Dublin bus ticket covers you for crosstown journies double the length of Edinburgh and even for city centre journies, something like Maynoth into the city is double the distance of an Edinburgh suburb to the centre there.

maybe the comparison is more valid than expected. It was in response to a post about a higher price, for somewhere larger than Dublin, quoting a lower price for somewhere smaller than Dublin.

n97 mini

munchkin_utd wrote: »

unfortunately not really comparible

It's close enough on balance. I think people would take a monthly pass at less than half the price of the current DB 30 day one that doesn't cover other transport modes aswell as airlink, nitelink.

While the area is smaller it's not hugely so. Queesnferry to Seton Sands is the same distance as Bray to Dublin Airport.

lil5

munchkin_utd wrote: »

...For comparison which the OP has asked for, the equivalent (can get you to the likes of Maynooth) day ticket in Munich would cost you €11,70 per day so almost exactly double what youre paying in Dublin.

So at least one EU city is double the cost of Dublin.

Your comparison with an all-transport mode 24h ticket in Munich to a bus-only day ticket in Dublin is by all means an extremely poor one.

http://www.mvv-muenchen.de/en/tickets-fares/tickets/day-tickets/single-day-ticket/index.html


In Munich the OP would very likely have a monthly Isar Card ("The right ticket for everyone who travels on a weekly or monthly basis within the MVV network.") with 8 rings for €115.50 (sample for Fürstenfeldbruck) which gives him access to all transport modes (bus, tram, U-Bahn, S-Bahn) - without any tag-on and tag-off nonsense.

http://www.mvv-muenchen.de/en/tickets-fares/tickets/frequent-travellers/isarcard/index.html

http://www.mvv-muenchen.de/en/tickets-fares/tariff-maps/index.html

s8080

comparing apples to oranges
how much is a pint of beer in munich and dublin?
how much is a cup of coffee in Edinburgh and Dublin?
you fixate on the cost of transport but ignore the fact that many thing are more expensive in Dublin than Munich and Edinburgh

munchkin_utd

lil5 wrote: »

<snip>
In Munich the OP would very likely have a monthly Isar Card ("The right ticket for everyone who travels on a weekly or monthly basis within the MVV network.") with 8 rings for €115.50 (sample for Fürstenfeldbruck) which gives him access to all transport modes (bus, tram, U-Bahn, S-Bahn) - without any tag-on and tag-off nonsense.
<snip>

look, its hard to compare systems in cities, but Munich and Dublin are not bad examples as they are cities of very similar population and size.
And "An Lár"-ism is brutal there too, so another common factor. Theres hardly a radial service thats usable which causes chronic congestion on the ring road motorway (sound familiar?)

The thing with the tickets being valid for many modes is one thing, but its actually not really an issue.
In Munich you simply cannot get to the city by bus exclusively, so you just need to be able to use the train. The busses run in the suburbs and the train brings you to town. Thats the way it works, and once Dublin gets the Dart Underground it could also work in Dublin too.
But essentially a Munich general travel ticket is not all that different from a Dublin Bus ticket in that its the only way to get from a random corer of a suburb to the city centre.

LXFlyer

munchkin_utd wrote: »

look, its hard to compare systems in cities, but Munich and Dublin are not bad examples as they are cities of very similar population and size.
And "An Lár"-ism is brutal there too, so another common factor. Theres hardly a radial service thats usable which causes chronic congestion on the ring road motorway (sound familiar?)

The thing with the tickets being valid for many modes is one thing, but its actually not really an issue.
In Munich you simply cannot get to the city by bus exclusively, so you just need to be able to use the train. The busses run in the suburbs and the train brings you to town. Thats the way it works, and once Dublin gets the Dart Underground it could also work in Dublin too.
But essentially a Munich general travel ticket is not all that different from a Dublin Bus ticket in that its the only way to get from a random corer of a suburb to the city centre.

I think you mean orbital?


Radial routes are the ones to/from the city centre.

n97 mini

s8080 wrote: »

comparing apples to oranges
how much is a pint of beer in munich and dublin?
how much is a cup of coffee in Edinburgh and Dublin?
you fixate on the cost of transport but ignore the fact that many thing are more expensive in Dublin than Munich and Edinburgh

By that logic the only fair comparison with Dublin is Dublin.

s8080

n97 mini wrote: »

By that logic the only fair comparison with Dublin is Dublin.

correct.

top fare dublin E2.50 price of pint E5

top fare munich E1.5 price of pint E3

dublin transport cost are relative to the cost of everything else.

cdebru

http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=Ireland&country2=Germany&city1=Dublin&city2=Munich


Also to do a fair.comparison you would also need to look at other issues like fare box recovery ratio as well as traffic management and enforcement and bus priority measures, number of stops etc. If one city has a well managed traffic and bus priority system so a bus can do a 15km run significantly faster that is obviously going to affect your costs significantly.

Fares are high here but there are numerous reasons for that including the large portion of the population entitled to free travel, how many citizens in Munich can travel for free and how are the transport providers paid for this ? At the end of the day there is no such thing as free travel, someone has to pay for it, whether that is the state or the other customers.