Help! A job offer in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia

booksale

I have got a job offer in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia. I am very interested in the job but there are a few hesitations, would be grateful if anyone here can give some opinions.

I have a young baby and a husband. How is that work out visa wise? I was told I will be the sponsors for them while my employer be the sponsor. But I can't leave my baby even for a day as I am still breastfeeding her night time. I can leave my husband here for a while but not the baby. Anyone knows?

My husband is working at home on some writing projects but would also be interested if he can work there. Can he, visa wise and job market wise. He's an Italian and very good in his own language.

How's life there for family with a young baby? How's the childcare there?

Any opinions appreciated!

wuffly

Hey congrats on the job offer.
Have your company told you you can sponsor your husband and baby? In general it doesn't happen as the mentality is that a man should be working and have his own visa. I know a friend struggled with a large local company in Abu Dhabi when her husband was taking time off to finish his MBA, so I would think Saudi would be more difficult. I could be wrong. I would make sure you can sponsor them before going any further. If you are bringing your child without your husband you will need a nanny, this is pretty regular so shouldn't be an issue you will need to sponsor her though and that will be a cost in dubai its roughly 1000e. You may also need a no objection letter from your husband for your child to travel with you. I would check out expatwoman.com and ask in the Saudi Forum they will be able to give better more accurate advice. If you are going to work in oil and gas they are generally excellent employers and have pretty decent compounds. Have you been to the middle east before?

booksale

THANKS, Wuffly.

I haven't been to middle east. This will be the first time for all of us to there. Actually we are excited but also worried with the uncertainties.

THANKS for the web site. Will check it out.

And turn out my employer will help get the visas done for three of us. There is free accommodation provided so it's good. Will he be discriminated if he does not have a 'proper job' while his wife is earning in Saudi Arabia? Indeed, he has published a book before, it's not like he's doing nothing.

How do you find working in Middle East?

wuffly

Hey,

That all sounds positive. Is there any chance you could do a reki before you make the move?
I know a few people that have moved from Saudi to Dubai and they found their time there grand depending on the accommodation lots of people enjoyed it. There can be great communities within the compounds. Some staff are very well provided for. I wouldn't think your husband would be discriminated against but I think he may receive comments from other nationalities but I wouldn't think that would happen much. Once he has a visa it doesn't matter what people think. Sounds like he will be working anyway shouldn't be an issue.
Personally I find work here fine for the most part. My team is fairly mixed nationalities wise but I am the only western woman in the company. The only thing is maternity leave is only 45days here, I would think its possibly the same in Saudi. Its just something to consider if you plan to have another child while you are out here. Working in the middle east is a bit different in that you don't get that switch off when you leave work that you get at home and what ever your working hours are add a few hours. Unless you are teaching you will probably have a smartphone and be on call all the time. Leave is generally given annually in a one month chunk no leave until your first year is up. Will your company provide flights for your husband and baby? Also medical insurance? This is my general experience anyway. It will be a big change even Dubai was a big change but once you get working and get to know some people you get used to it pretty quickly. Get used to hearing Insh'allah it means god willing you will hear it whenever you ask a question; when will i get my visa? tomorrow Insh'allah, translation some time next week!

braddun

http://www.internations.org/riyadh-expats/guide/moving-to-riyadh-15795/visas-for-riyadh-saudi-arabia-2

booksale

thanks for the link, braddun.

wuffly, they are preparing the contract as I guess this is the first time for them to get a married woman for this role. So I am not sure whether my husband and baby are covered with the medical and flights to and from home countries. I have checked roughly though how much is the medical insurance if I need to pay myself. Hopefully they would provide that. They provide a driver as well. So that's good.

I asked about the previous employee of my post the working hour but she was not very sure as changes are happening but sound acceptable. And I am from a workaholic city so hopefully I can survive, really want to spend more time with the baby though.

Ha, no, no way I would plan for another one no matter where I am.

Glad to know that my husband would be fine, hopefully he can get something there other than working on his writing projects as it's good to meet more people. Yes, it's good that he can walk around the city if he wants. Is it OK for him to carry the baby with him or is it a strange thing for a man to do there?!??!

wuffly

If you were a man on a family package your family would get flights and medical so if I were you I would gently push.

You'll need the driver as you aren't allowed to drive, are they providing a driver and car or just the services of a driver? If its car with a driver your husband should be able to drive at weekends etc.. might be handy and in good in case of an emergency.

Your husband shouldn't have any problems being out and about with your little one, the ME is pretty family orientated. Although if its anything like here its mostly maids that will be out and about with kids during the week. I would think your company will give you a bit of an orientation anyway. Def get involved with some local groups when you get there its the best way to meet people.

Best of luck!

booksale

Hi, Wuffly, thanks so much for all your suggestions, will surely try to get involved with local groups!

cabla

I live in Saudi - East Province at the moment. You've mentioned above you cannot leave your baby. I'm sorry to say but you may have to. If, which I'm not even sure as usually it's the man who sponsors the family, you can, you will have to wait until your paper work is complete before then you can sponsor them. This can take a few months.

Basically what happens is your sponsor will sponsor you, when your residency permit and iqama is comple (residency card) you can then sponsor your family under this residency. But only when you get the residency can you. It's slow, believe me. Unless your employer has a good connection or can some how sponsor the baby too I'm not sure how this works. Perhaps theres a rule for children under a certain age being able to travel with mother.

In terms of Saudi, just be prepared for a culture shock. Wuffly is right, there are some great expat compounds, especially the Western province due to the fact it's a greater distance to the likes of Bahrain, UAE, Qatar where you can get a drink or two. Jeddah is meant to be very pretty too and a little more relaxed than other parts of Saudi. Amazing scuba diving I believe, some of the best in the world in fact so I'm told, if you're into that.

It's a close community and you should adapt quickly if you go with an open mind. The driving may be awkward but I'm sure if you get into a routine it'll be ok and most compounds have a small store anyway for bits and bobs.

booksale

Cable, thanks for your comment.

It turns out my employer is very understanding and is applying family visas for my family so we can all go there together.

My husband is worrying about online shopping. Have you any experience buying things through online shops eh Amazon ebay etc there? Is that easy? Will the good be checked?

Also a book my husband wrote linked 911 with Arabic counties （not particularly Saudi Arabia), he's worrird that the locals or authoritied there would feel offended. Does he need to avoid talking about this book? And that he needs to delete the copies on his computer?

wuffly

Cabla can probably give more info, but in the UAE there is no residential post, I use a service called 'shopNship' there maybe something similar in Saudi, its basically a forwarding service, i have addresses in the uk and us and once the package hits there is get forwarded by courier. Everything gets opened when it arrives. I only use it for shopping not for personal stuff its too expensive and there's no privacy.

Re your husbands book, I couldn't say if its an issue, I would keep quiet about it when you get there until you get to know the lay of the land, even with expats. If they check his laptop they will be looking for porn,(you might want to check out what they consider porn) more than something like this but I would delete it just to be cautious, its very much an ask questions later kind of place.

Have you gotten any sort of welcome/intro pack from your company?

booksale

wuffly wrote: »

Have you gotten any sort of welcome/intro pack from your company?

No, I haven't got any packs from my employer. The visas are still In process and they will let me know once they are done and the agent then will discuss with me the contract in details. They said they hope the visas would be done this week. Fingers crossed.

First Up

booksale wrote: »

Cable, thanks for your comment.

It turns out my employer is very understanding and is applying family visas for my family so we can all go there together.

My husband is worrying about online shopping. Have you any experience buying things through online shops eh Amazon ebay etc there? Is that easy? Will the good be checked?

Also a book my husband wrote linked 911 with Arabic counties （not particularly Saudi Arabia), he's worrird that the locals or authoritied there would feel offended. Does he need to avoid talking about this book? And that he needs to delete the copies on his computer?

I would think that if there is a problem with your husband's book it will arise at visa time. It is not something I would advertise.
Jeddah is the most interesting part of Saudi but still a long way culturally from Europe. If you have no mid East experience be ready for some adjustments and a constrained life style.

First Up

By the way, is your employer an international company or a local Saudi organisation?

booksale

First Up wrote: »

By the way, is your employer an international company or a local Saudi organisation?

It's a local one.

First Up

booksale wrote: »

It's a local one.

OK, I don't want to cause undue concern but do see how much you can find out about the experiences of other ex-pats who work with them. Be aware that employers in Saudi can exert a lot of control over non-national employees, including issuing exit visas.
Generally speaking, international companies are better set up to look after non-Saudi staff and especially westerners. That doesn't mean all Saudi companies are problematic but you definitely hear of more problems with them than with multi nationals.
I would contact Dept of Foreign Affairs and talk to their consular people. They may know of people who worked for your prospective employer but in any case they are well-versed on the do's and dont's of working in Saudi.
Do as much research as you can before you go. Once you are there, the scope for dealing with any issues is much reduced.
Good luck.

booksale

The agent got back to me telling me that the employer is good and he has been recruiting for the employer for years.

Now we are thinking to pack snd ship. As a young family of three, we will have a few boxes to ship. And we are thinking to ship thd cot as well. What's your advice ? Have you ever used any shipping service from ireland to Saudi Arabia (or Middle East)?

First Up

booksale wrote: »

The agent got back to me telling me that the employer is good and he has been recruiting for the employer for years.

Now we are thinking to pack snd ship. As a young family of three, we will have a few boxes to ship. And we are thinking to ship thd cot as well. What's your advice ? Have you ever used any shipping service from ireland to Saudi Arabia (or Middle East)?

With greatest respect, the agent's assurances mean nothing. They don't work for you, they work for the employer.
Your package should include door to door service, with someone taking complete responsibility for the entire shipping process, starting at your Irish address and finishing with delivery to your address in Jeddah. Accept nothing less. If you do, problems are almost guaranteed.
This is not frivolous advice. I have lived and worked in the region and have a thousand salutary tales I could share.

booksale

Thanks, First up. The agent shared some personal experience which I would have no doubts.

I agreed that it needs to be a door to door service. The service I checked provides door to door service but is very very expensive. I might keep searching.

First Up

booksale wrote: »

Thanks, First up. The agent shared some personal experience which I would have no doubts.

I agreed that it needs to be a door to door service. The service I checked provides door to door service but is very very expensive. I might keep searching.

You should have to search nothing.
If your employer is trustworthy, reliable and experienced in bringing ex pat employees and their dependants into Saudi none of this should be your concern. Thousands of people move to and from Saudi every year and there is absolutely no reason why any detail should be a mystery or a surprise to anyone.
It is a minefield and you need to be working with professionals. I know the deal looks good but trust me on this. Please be careful.

booksale

Thanks First up for your reply. I understand your concerns.

The visas are still in process so I receive nothing from them yet. I'm just doing a bit of research on my side. I will not be working for a company so I'm not sure whether they will have the welcome pack or other info. I will be working as a therapist for a family there. It's a team and with consultants from uk. Since I'm not the first one working in the family, I guess they might have something for me. And his assistant is very helpful so I might ask him a few questions regard to my moving once the visas confirmed.

smurfjed

I will be working as a therapist for a family there

Are you sure that you have checked out this job properly and spoken to people who have either worked there or are still there? When working for a family, there can be personality issues and time management issues. But saying that, I have met many personal staff for families who have stayed with the families for years.
Jeddah is the most relaxed city in Saudi, it has awesome beaches, although they are closed membership places. It also has a lot of high standard restaurants and shopping areas.
With larger families, the possibility exists that they have the own staff compound, so this might be incredibly strange for your husband as he will have to find adult interaction.
Usually employees are issued working visas which are then converted into a residence permit within a week or so of arrival, then you can apply for a family visa. It is strange for a whole family to arrive at the same time, and you should also consider if you want them to arrive with you. What are you going to do if you decide that you hate the job/people in the 1st week?
Importing stuff from Amazon works, but it is hit and miss. I have done it for small items or books, i wouldn't do it for anything expensive.
Is your husband really ready to be a full time baby sitter? He won't be permitted to work on a family visa, so he is going to have a lot of time on his hands, and there aren't any Irish clubs that he can volunteer for.
There is an Irish embassy in Riyadh, but no consular support in Jeddah.
Oh yea the book... well the general rule of thumb is not to discuss religion or politics, so that will fall into that category.

Good Luck.

booksale

Hi, smufjed! Glad to know that you try the Amazon. I got info. saying that we need a commercial address, is it true? can we get the parcels post directly to the residential apartment?

We will be staying in the Western compound so hopefully we can make some friends there and get some social life there. We will be getting childcare help to spare my husband some times to work on his own writing projects or looking for job opportunities there.

Job wise, Thanks for your concerns. I understand I need to be extra careful there. I spoke with the girl who I will replace in a professional sense and got a very rough idea about my job. I'm doing very similar kind of job here in Ireland anyway so it's not something new for me. It would be a bonus if I get on well with the family. If not, I work and when off work, I enjoy my family time in this new country and hopefully I get to explore the country and around. Money and exploration are two main reasons we decided to take this job. It's just temporary anyway so we can get through no matter what. Fingers crossed. I'm lucky as I can go with my family.

smurfjed wrote: »

Are you sure that you have checked out this job properly and spoken to people who have either worked there or are still there? When working for a family, there can be personality issues and time management issues. But saying that, I have met many personal staff for families who have stayed with the families for years.
Jeddah is the most relaxed city in Saudi, it has awesome beaches, although they are closed membership places. It also has a lot of high standard restaurants and shopping areas.
With larger families, the possibility exists that they have the own staff compound, so this might be incredibly strange for your husband as he will have to find adult interaction.
Usually employees are issued working visas which are then converted into a residence permit within a week or so of arrival, then you can apply for a family visa. It is strange for a whole family to arrive at the same time, and you should also consider if you want them to arrive with you. What are you going to do if you decide that you hate the job/people in the 1st week?
Importing stuff from Amazon works, but it is hit and miss. I have done it for small items or books, i wouldn't do it for anything expensive.
Is your husband really ready to be a full time baby sitter? He won't be permitted to work on a family visa, so he is going to have a lot of time on his hands, and there aren't any Irish clubs that he can volunteer for.
There is an Irish embassy in Riyadh, but no consular support in Jeddah.
Oh yea the book... well the general rule of thumb is not to discuss religion or politics, so that will fall into that category.

Good Luck.

First Up

booksale wrote: »

Hi, smufjed! Glad to know that you try the Amazon. I got info. saying that we need a commercial address, is it true? can we get the parcels post directly to the residential apartment?

We will be staying in the Western compound so hopefully we can make some friends there and get some social life there. We will be getting childcare help to spare my husband some times to work on his own writing projects or looking for job opportunities there.

Job wise, Thanks for your concerns. I understand I need to be extra careful there. I spoke with the girl who I will replace in a professional sense and got a very rough idea about my job. I'm doing very similar kind of job here in Ireland anyway so it's not something new for me. It would be a bonus if I get on well with the family. If not, I work and when off work, I enjoy my family time in this new country and hopefully I get to explore the country and around. Money and exploration are two ma reasons we decided to take this job. It's just temporary anyway so we can get through no matter what. Fingers crossed. I'm lucky as I can go with my family.

Be aware that there are many compounds and they can vary a bit in terms of quality. Its worth asking for details of where you will be and your predecessor should be a useful source.

A practical issue will be getting to work - as you can't drive. I assume they have a plan for that.

smurfjed

can we get the parcels post directly to the residential apartment?

The system of residential addresses is relatively new and I don't know how successful it actually is. Thats the reason people use their commercial addresses.

in the Western compound

There is no such thing anymore, there any many compounds that claim to be run to western standards, some are huge some are tiny and i certainly hope that the cost of accommodation is included as it is very expensive.

We will be getting childcare help

How? Does your igama (residence permit) fall into the category that permits you to have personal staff?

Money and exploration

The expat concept is based on two buckets, one for cash the other for BS. For each of us there is a tipping point between the two. If you come with an open mind, go to the beaches, mingle and meet people, go driving to see the country, it does have a lot more to see than just sand

Your biggest problem might be your husband, what is he going to do? The days of spouses getting jobs in schools etc appear to have finished, the authorities are having big issues with illegal expats. You might be lucky and the "family" might have something that he can do, but otherwise it will be tough.

I hope that i don't sound too negative, that isn't my intention, but i always want people to come with an open mind and a realistic expectation of what the country has to offer.

Cheers

booksale

First Up wrote: »

Be aware that there are many compounds and they can vary a bit in terms of quality. Its worth asking for details of where you will be and your predecessor should be a useful source.

A practical issue will be getting to work - as you can't drive. I assume they have a plan for that.

They will provide a driver.

I will read in details my contract when all the documents ready their side. At this moment We are just doing some mental preparation and reaearch on our end. We are still waiting for the family visas to be done. They did mention usually the rule there is I sponsor my family there myself. But since my baby is young and they understand my situation so they are willing to do it for me. I am still not 100% sure whether we will be able to make it finally. Things might go south with the visas or whatever. I will definitely not going if I can't take my baby anyway.

So we will wait and see the details of the offer later.

Saipanne

Op, from reading this thread it would appear you are not taking people's good advice seriously. Just my observation.

For example, I wouldn't trust a recruitment agent as far as I could throw one. People are correct to tell you not to trust his word. When you start that job, he gets money. So try to think where his incentive lies...

I know nothing of KSA, but I would listen to any warnings given to me, regarding that region of the world.

booksale

Good to know that the residential address is ok now. Although it's new at least there is the option. Thanks for letting us know.

Will check about the accommodation conditions when visas done. Too early to discuss in details with them about that.

I did ask about the childcare and the employer said I can get some part time nannies or childminders there in the compound. I don't know how it exactly would work out. That's a thing I'm checking now.

My husband's feelings and thoughts are my main concerns. We have discussed about this for so many times. He's fascinated with the chance to get to see a place that one can't get in easily. He's happy to work on his writing projects that he wants to do. If he can get a job and switch the visa type, it's good. If not, it's also ok. yes, the 'family' (why the quotation marks?) did mention he might be able to teach the family Italian. Of course, we wouldn't take it serious.

Thank you so much for spending your time to give me the info. Smufjed. I really appreciate that!!!!

smurfjed wrote: »

The system of residential addresses is relatively new and I don't know how successful it actually is. Thats the reason people use their commercial addresses.

There is no such thing anymore, there any many compounds that claim to be run to western standards, some are huge some are tiny and i certainly hope that the cost of accommodation is included as it is very expensive.

How? Does your igama (residence permit) fall into the category that permits you to have personal staff?

The expat concept is based on two buckets, one for cash the other for BS. For each of us there is a tipping point between the two. If you come with an open mind, go to the beaches, mingle and meet people, go driving to see the country, it does have a lot more to see than just sand

Your biggest problem might be your husband, what is he going to do? The days of spouses getting jobs in schools etc appear to have finished, the authorities are having big issues with illegal expats. You might be lucky and the "family" might have something that he can do, but otherwise it will be tough.

I hope that i don't sound too negative, that isn't my intention, but i always want people to come with an open mind and a realistic expectation of what the country has to offer.

Cheers

First Up

booksale wrote: »

Good to know that the residential address is ok now. Although it's new at least there is the option. Thanks for letting us know.

Will check about the accommodation conditions when visas done. Too early to discuss in details with them about that.

I did ask about the childcare and the employer said I can get some part time nannies or childminders there in the compound. I don't know how it exactly would work out. That's a thing I'm checking now.

My husband's feelings and thoughts are my main concerns. We have discussed about this for so many times. He's fascinated with the chance to get to see a place that one can't get in easily. He's happy to work on his writing projects that he wants to do. If he can get a job and switch the visa type, it's good. If not, it's also ok. yes, the 'family' (why the quotation marks?) did mention he might be able to teach the family Italian. Of course, we wouldn't take it serious.

Thank you so much for spending your time to give me the info. Smufjed. I really appreciate that!!!!

I think the advice that you "can" get part time nannies etc needs to be tested. They could just mean that you might be able to make informal arrangements with neighbours. That would avoid you having any employment responsibilities but it isn't a reliable system. One more thing to be checked out.
You will note the strong element of caution running through the advice here. It is justified. Saudi is not an easy place to live and there is good reason why most ex-pat salary packages include a "hardship" allowance. It is not physically dangerous like some parts of the world but it can do your head in!
With regard to getting information from your employers or their agents, a simple tip that works in many situations; never ask a question that can be answered with just "yes". For example with childminding, don't ask "can I find childminders"? Instead ask "how can I find..."?
It works in lots of situations!

booksale

hi, Saipanne, I think my job is a bit new for the usual expats who go to work for a company so it's harder to understand why I can trust the agent. Anyway, I do appreciate all the opinions and warnings and all.

Saipanne wrote: »

Op, from reading this thread it would appear you are not taking people's good advice seriously. Just my observation.

For example, I wouldn't trust a recruitment agent as far as I could throw one. People are correct to tell you not to trust his word. When you start that job, he gets money. So try to think where his incentive lies...

I know nothing of KSA, but I would listen to any warnings given to me, regarding that region of the world.

booksale

First Up wrote: »

With regard to getting information from your employers or their agents, a simple tip that works in many situations; never ask a question that can be answered with just "yes". For example with childminding, don't ask "can I find childminders"? Instead ask "how can I find..."?
It works in lots of situations!

That's a good tip. Thanks. ðŸ‘ðŸ‘