109 women prosecuted for false rape claims in five years, say campaigners

Timberrrrrrrr

KomradeBishop wrote: »

Uhm OP, they are campaigning against wrongful sentences where people were pressured/co-erced into retracting rape claims, and then prosecuted as 'lying' for that - where they have not actually lied.

Way to take the article out of context, in an inflammatory way...

The spokeswoman for that group stated on the radio that even if a woman makes a false claim of rape against a man and then recants the allegation of her own free will she shouldn't be prosecuted.

Boskowski

it would lead to a situation where a rape allegation is a free shot at someone. If it sticks you destroyed the guy if it doesn't no harm done (to yourself).

Which would seriously devalue a rape allegation wouldn't it? There'd be rape claims all over the place from people trying to get rid of people and one of them happen to be a man and the other a woman.

Earthhorse

seamus wrote: »

There is actually a relatively useful way of doing this; absolute anonymity.

Useful way of doing what?

Just because the parties involved remained anonymous doesn't mean that justice wasn't perverted or that police time wasn't wasted.

desertcircus

desertcircus wrote: »

Literally every case of a false rape allegation I've seen reported in my life has had the same thing in common: the accuser either has severe mental health issues, or is so genuinely terrified of someone else in her life that the rape accusation seems like the only option.

Yup, they're still victims of course.

spurious

All false rape allegations should be prosecuted.

Let the courts decide if it was malicious or not (and I do accept there are some delusional mental illnesses where someone may truly believe something happened when it didn't). If found to be malicious, the person should be convicted.

bucketybuck

desertcircus wrote: »

Other, more cynical cases may exist, but I've honestly never seen one reported.

You haven't looked hard enough. Or not at all more probably.

seamus

Earthhorse wrote: »

Useful way of doing what?

Of allowing claims to be made without fear of prosecution.
If the accuser is to be offered legal protection, the accused must be too.

Kalman

Grayson wrote: »

The issue isn't false accusations. The issue is that women are being tried for this when there's little evidence.

Imagine a situation where a woman gets assaulted. She says that X did it. The police investigate but don't have enough evidence to charge.

Now, does that mean that she lied about the assault? Should she be charged with making a false complaint? That's basically what happened to the woman in the story. She made a complaint. There wasn't enough evidence to charge/prosecute. Then the police brought charges against her. She killed herself.

Remember that only a very small percentages of rapes result in convictions. Should all those women who report a rape but don't get a conviction be charged with making a false report?

Obviously not. And likewise if a woman does make a false complaint there should be charges filed. The issue is the line we draw. The group in the article point out that the UK prosecutes far more often for this than any country.

You are innocent until proven guilty.
If it is a false allegation, then the penalty must be and should be severe, she should forfeit her freedom.
On the other hand, if the guy is guilty, then he should be dealt with.

You have to look what the guy has had to endure . It must be terrible to be accused of rape knowing that the other person is telling lies it must leave an awful stigma. What about family, work, and friends, etc.?

Buona Fortuna

CTYIgirl wrote: »

If someone makes a rape allegation against someone, and it is found to be false - as in before it goes to trial, or the person recants their statement - then they should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

I'm OK with most of that, and I hate to come across as a pedant but:

• If someone knowingly and maliciously makes a false statement, sure prosecute them.
• Just because someone recants their statement though, I'm not so sure. Maybe they just cannot go through with the whole sh1t maelstrom that will be a criminal trial. In those circumstances I don't think we should. If they just can't face it, its almost like where we used to prosecute people for a failed suicide attempt.

Timberrrrrrrr

desertcircus wrote: »

Other, more cynical cases may exist, but I've honestly never seen one reported. On that basis, prosecuting cases of false allegations and pushing for prison time in the bunk of cases is an astronomically stupid decision:

http://www.uticaod.com/x1089264182/Police-Teen-lied-about-rape-to-get-revenge

Kayla Kelsey, 17, was charged with falsely reporting a crime and giving a false written statement. Kelsey contract the 911 dispatch center to report a rape but later said she lied about the crime to get revenge on another individual, deputies said.

Read more: http://www.uticaod.com/article/20100411/News/304119986#ixzz3KkluTPRc

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2242480/Woman-jailed-falsely-crying-rape-ex-boyfriend.html

A woman who falsely cried rape twice against her ex-boyfriend has been jailed.
Beverley Brandreth, 20, claimed that he had raped her while she was pregnant which made her lose a baby, a claim which was found to be untrue.
At the time prosecutors advised that no charge should be brought against her.
Then she made a second claim last November when she told police that he had dragged her into woods where she was beaten unconscious and raped, and he threatened to kill her if she reported the matter.
Her lies were unmasked again when the victim later proved he was in a DVD store with his new girlfriend when Brandreth claimed he attacked her.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2242480/Woman-jailed-falsely-crying-rape-ex-boyfriend.html#ixzz3Kkm4zKbD
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1289428/Lying-mother-jailed-crying-rape-wanted-rid-husband.html

Bernadett Kore, 29, told police she had been brutally attacked by two thugs in an alleyway in October.
But it transpired that the woman made the whole story up - leaving the two men she accused devastated by their terrifying ordeal.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1289428/Lying-mother-jailed-crying-rape-wanted-rid-husband.html#ixzz3KkmDqMf6
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

http://www.bustedinacadiana.com/2012/10/woman-charged-with-crying-rape-after-being-caught-in-the-shower-with-a-womans-lover/

Heather Atkins, a 26-year-old Columbia woman was jailed after she falsely claimed that she had been raped after she was caught in the shower with another woman’s boyfriend.
According to the Columbia Police Department, Atkins told detectives she received a black eye during a sexual assault on Friday.
Investigators say Atkins told them that she was punched in the face and then dragged to a secluded area by two black men who proceeded to rape and then rob her.

http://metro.co.uk/2014/06/26/jailed-law-student-who-falsely-cried-rape-so-she-had-an-excuse-for-exam-failure-4777434/

A law graduate who falsely accused her boyfriend of rape so she had an excuse for failing her bar exam was sentenced to three-and-a-half years in jail.

Rhiannon Brooker claimed Paul Fensome forced her to have sex five times. She also faked injuries to suggest he had beaten her.

http://www.avoiceformalestudents.com/in-academia-false-claims-of-rape-and-harassment-are-now-employed-by-activists-as-tools-of-social-change/

Yes: there is a rash of campus activists – most of them (if not all of them) Feminists – now brazenly making false claims of rape and harassment and using them for activism purposes. Most often, these false claims are made as a means to “raise awareness of the problem of rape on campus,” an interesting notion since if rape were such a big problem on campus there would be no need to make up fake rapes at all.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1206325/Woman-rape-allegation-faces-jail.html

A woman faces jail after luring a man into having sex with her and then crying rape in a plot to claim thousands of pounds in compensation.
Sarah-Jane Hilliard, 20, applied for £7,500 from the Criminal Injuries Compensation Authority days after falsely accusing Grant Bowers, 19, of raping her.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1206325/Woman-rape-allegation-faces-jail.html#ixzz3KkngHhpb
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

coffee_cake

Well as long as we don't mean prosecuting the woman just because there wasn't enough evidence to prosecute the man in court and so he was found not guilty
innocent til proven guilty works both ways i guess
if there is any evidence she was deliberately lying about it whether maliciously or mental health reasons or whatever, that is certainly another story

KomradeBishop

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

The spokeswoman for that group stated on the radio that even if a woman makes a false claim of rape against a man and then recants the allegation of her own free will she shouldn't be prosecuted.

I'd have to see this quote - in context - in an article, to be sure of it: It's extremely easy to take this out of context, when what the spokeswoman likely means is "alleged false claim of rape".

In quotes from the article in the OP, it is out of context.

Timberrrrrrrr

Buona Fortuna wrote: »

I'm OK with most of that, and I hate to come across as a pedant but:

• If someone knowingly and maliciously makes a false statement, sure prosecute them.
• Just because someone recants their statement though, I'm not so sure. Maybe they just cannot go through with the whole sh1t maelstrom that will be a criminal trial. In those circumstances I don't think we should. If they just can't face it, its almost like where we used to prosecute people for a failed suicide attempt.

But what about the man who would have had to go through the whole maelstrom of a criminal trial? I knew a lad back in the 80's who was accused of rape when a girl he slept with at a party reported him. Lost his wife and kid, friends and family deserted him and he was basically bullied out of his job. This all happened over the space of 14 months and as the trial date got closer he eventually snapped and hung himself. 2 days after his funeral the girl admitted e hadn't raped her but she was scared she may have got pregnant and "panicked".

14 Months of pure ****ing hell for that lad and eventually commits suicide because it got too much for him just because some girl decided it was better to accuse him of rape than admit to her Mammy that she had sex. I still see that girl around with her husband and teenage son, I have often felt like approaching her and asking her how she would feel if it was her son who is next falsly accused of rape.

Timberrrrrrrr

KomradeBishop wrote: »

I'd have to see this quote - in context - in an article, to be sure of it: It's extremely easy to take this out of context, when what the spokeswoman likely means is "alleged false claim of rape".

In quotes from the article in the OP, it is out of context.

No i heard her on the radio as she said it live, This is not some out of context misrepresentation of what she said.

KomradeBishop

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

No i heard her on the radio as she said it live, This is not some out of context misrepresentation of what she said.

Given the way you took the original article out of context in the OP, I don't really trust that you interpreted the radio interview correctly.

Buona Fortuna

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

But what about the man who would have had to go through the whole maelstrom of a criminal trial? I knew a lad back in the 80's who was accused of rape when a girl he slept with at a party reported him. Lost his wife and kid, friends and family deserted him and he was basically bullied out of his job. This all happened over the space of 14 months and as the trial date got closer he eventually snapped and hung himself. 2 days after his funeral the girl admitted e hadn't raped her but she was scared she may have got pregnant and "panicked".

14 Months of pure ****ing hell for that lad and eventually commits suicide because it got too much for him just because some girl decided it was better to accuse him of rape than admit to her Mammy that she had sex. I still see that girl around with her husband and teenage son, I have often felt like approaching her and asking her how she would feel if it was her son who is next falsly accused of rape.

Yeah, but thats a different point to the one I made.

In the case you refer to, the girl admitted that the statement was false. As far as I'm concerned prosecute her.

tritium

KomradeBishop wrote: »

Problem with that is, publicly naming the defendant helps other victims of the defendant to come forward.

It also creates a problem with the legal system: If defendants in sexual assault cases can remain anonymous, why not let defendants be anonymous in other high-personal-impact cases, such as accusations of political corruption?

I don't see why this is a problem? We already have a different rule around identifying the victim and I don't see anyone calling for that to be applied everywhere else.

I'm pretty uncomfortable tbh with the idea that a raoe accusation is allowed to become a juducial fishing exercise. If you want to gather evidence do it properly.

Timberrrrrrrr

KomradeBishop wrote: »

Given the way you took the original article out of context in the OP, I don't really trust that you interpreted the radio interview correctly.

Maybe you should listen to it yourself then :rolleyes:

KomradeBishop

tritium wrote: »

I don't see why this is a problem? We already have a different rule around identifying the victim and I don't see anyone calling for that to be applied everywhere else.

I'm pretty uncomfortable tbh with the idea that a raoe accusation is allowed to become a juducial fishing exercise. If you want to gather evidence do it properly.

There's no advantage to hiding the victim in other cases - there are huge advantages (for defendants) for hiding the defendant in other cases.

Timberrrrrrrr

Buona Fortuna wrote: »

Yeah, but thats a different point to the one I made.

In the case you refer to, the girl admitted that the statement was false. As far as I'm concerned prosecute her.

I agree


But this war crowd are saying that women should NEVER be prosecuted for making false allegations of rape.

KomradeBishop

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Maybe you should listen to it yourself then :rolleyes:

Great, have you got a link, or a transcript?

KomradeBishop

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

I agree


But this war crowd are saying that women should NEVER be prosecuted for making false allegations of rape.

Citation needed. So far, we have nothing to show that.

tritium

KomradeBishop wrote: »

Uhm OP, they are campaigning against wrongful sentences where people were pressured/co-erced into retracting rape claims, and then prosecuted as 'lying' for that - where they have not actually lied.

Way to take the article out of context, in an inflammatory way...

That's not quite what the article says though is it? Its part of it but not the full context. It basically says they pursue this too aggressively, then tags on this and a few other items in mitigation.

The guardian has had a number if these cases highlighted for some reason. De freitas is the latest, where somehow her vulnerability is highlighted as making her above the law. If a rapist wasn't prosecuted because they were vulnerable there's be a very different reaction I suspect

Lyaiera

Wibbs wrote: »

I can see one side of the logic of this, namely that prosecuting such individuals may put off real victims from reporting for fear of punishment.

Yeah, I can see that too. Although it's a bit of a grandiose threat. I would imagine the far more prevalent reasons for not reporting a rape are to do with not being believed by friends and family, guilt and shame the victim feels in thinking they caused their rape, or that they didn't do enough to stop it, abuse from people who not only don't believe them but also feel they're lying, and people suppressing the rape and not wanting to deal with the inevitable consequences and trauma of it.

seamus wrote: »

There is actually a relatively useful way of doing this; absolute anonymity.

That is, in any case involving any sexual assault or allegation, the accuser and their victim are guaranteed absolute anonymity by law unless the accused is found guilty, in which case the victim can choose to be named.

This is ridiculous and would stop people from receiving the help they need after a rape unless they can prove in court they were raped.

Timberrrrrrrr

KomradeBishop wrote: »

Great, have you got a link, or a transcript?

It doesn't seem to be up yet but i'm sure it will be here in the next few hours

http://classichits.ie/category/podcasts/

Timberrrrrrrr

KomradeBishop wrote: »

Citation needed. So far, we have nothing to show that.

Again feel free to listen to the podcast when it's uploaded.

Grayson

suicide_circus wrote: »

I'd imagine british authorities pursue these women only when there is evidence of malicious intent on their part and not simply when the there isnt enough evidence to bring a charge of rape. It is also entirely possible that the woman in the article took her own life to avoid the consequences of her actions in bringing the false claim.

The example given in the story is one I've seen crop up recently. The police had no forensic evidence and said that no charges would be brought. The girl was ok with that, she understood that the police were limited in what they could do. The Accused brought a private prosecution.
http://www.theguardian.com/law/2014/nov/06/call-crown-prosecutors-account-suicide-alleged-rape-victim

Now saying that she killed herself to avoid consequences, that's the worst victim blaming I've heard. That's really messed up. I guess your username is a bit apt

CramCycle

There are huge dangers to false accusations and I am of the opinion that even if not pushed to the Gardai they should be prosecuted.

About 15 years ago a close friend had a rape allegation levelled against him in the public domain at a music festival, not reported to the Gardai, by a girl he knew in his social circle. His story was that he had fallen asleep that night, he woke up in his own tent where he went to sleep with his jeans still on. She claimed he had forced himself on her over the night. He was terrified, he still had his clothes on, she was inside a sleeping bag that she was still in when they woke up etc. I did not even know what to say to him. He said to me, worst case scenario, he had morning glory or he hugged the sleeping bag but that he was out of his bin, remembered everything but it would have been like a flaccid rope he was so drunk.

Later that day, a friend of the girls told us that the girl had made it up and admitted the whole thing to her and one or two others, he had rolled against the sleeping bag (not ideal) but that was it.

To this day he still gets looks from her friends, who were once his friends. It doesn't matter whether the mud sticks or is washed off, it will leave a stain that some will notice no matter what happens. An accusation does not have to go to the Gardai to be damaging, the guy doesn't even go home to the country for a pint with his mates in case he bumps into any of her social group.

mrkiscool2

Again, this would have to be done properly. Just as proving rape is tough, so is proving that someone who came forward with a rape allegation lied about is tough too. If the case goes to trial and the defendant gets off that doesn't mean the alleged victim lied, it just means there wasn't enough evidence to convict.

However, if evidence is found that the woman lied about the rape then they should absolutely be prosecuted. Rape is one of the worst things someone can be accused of and even if they walk free and didn't do it, it's going to stick. Prosecuting any person who files a rape allegation when it wasn't true not only stops women (and men, because a man could also do it) from doing it but it would actually help the person accused of rape show that it was all BS and not have it hang over them for the rest of their lives. 109 prosecutions in 5 years sounds about right for somewhere like the UK and I applaud their judicial system for not letting liars, who dirty the name of the person they accuse and waste police time, get away with it!

The_Captain

An awful lot of guys on this thread seem to make the assumption that in these situations the girl is lying by default.

I've known a girl who was raped, then later tried to play it down and turn it into a "miscommunication" because she didn't want everyone to see her as a perpetual victim or 'damaged goods' in her own words.