France to phase out diesel cars

Leonard Hofstadter

This is certainly interesting. The French, who have for a very long time been bastions of diesel powered motoring, are now looking to change tack, in favour of petrol and other cleaner sources of energy for cars.

Historically there was a very deliberate attempt to encourage the purchase of diesel cars in France, it was originally too, to help out their farmers - obviously reducing the cost of diesel helps them a lot. Then obviously environmental concerns took over. The French were buying diesels long before anyone else.

But alas the times are changing, and now they want to stop people from buying them. Among the proposals are to give a €10,000 grant for anyone who scraps a diesel car for an electric one.

In the more immediate future, they're looking to raise fuel duty on diesel. At the moment, diesel is over 20 cent a litre cheaper than petrol, so it's no wonder diesel is so popular over there.

No wonder PSA were making such a big deal over their new 1.2 litre three cylinder petrol engine!

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/france-plans-diesel-engine-cull-fight-over-pollution

http://europe.autonews.com/article/20141201/ANE/141209999/france-will-rank-cars-for-pollution-and-seek-to-phase-out-diesel-fuel

Special Circumstances

Mon dieu, une volte-face incroyable!

V Eight

Very interesting!

It's possibly just a way of getting more tax from 80% of motorists, and dressing it up as some kind of Green future thinking action.

or it heralds the dawn of the electric car....

corglass

V Eight wrote: »

Very interesting!

It's possibly just a way of getting more tax from 80% of motorists, and dressing it up as some kind of Green future thinking action.

or it heralds the dawn of the electric car....

I agree, very interesting development. I'm curious how this will help electric cars reach the masses

Sam Kade

Si ce est contagieux, il y aura beaucoup de voitures à être mis au rebut en Irlande :eek:

ted1

Is there s similar scheme for petrol cars?

Your title should read "France to provide incentives for people to switch to electric cars and hrlp Substain its electric car industry "

Special Circumstances

ted1 wrote: »

Is there s similar scheme for petrol cars?

Your title should read "France to provide incentives for people to switch to electric cars and hrlp Substain its electric car industry "

But they supply diesel engines to half the world? Why would they shoot themselves in the foot just for the sake of a change? Diesels are toxic in their cruder forms, and slightly less toxic but much more expensive to manufacture/repair/maintain in their more advanced examples.

Marcusm

The article is a little confusing. Some of the clear parts are that

1. France will no longer proactively support diesel by having reduced tax rates (as is the case in Ireland also)
2. there will be a subsidy for scrapping a diesel car and moving to an electric one - which should be odd as they are at the opposite end of the range anxiety spectrum
3. the car registration will be adjusted to allow dirty diesel cars to be identified and excluded from certain (presumably) urban zones.

This last point is already in place in Portugal and is behind LOndon's proposed ULEZ. EU member states will be fined for particulate and NOx pollution - this is completely separate to CO2 and, in London at least, has been made worse by the transfer to diesel. Apparently the west end of London (coincidentally where i live with my 3 petrol engined cars) has the worst air pollution in Europe and it can't carry on.

noelf

And France will bring in a extra 807 million euro in 2015 in extra taxes on diesel .. I wonder will agri diesel stay at todays prices !!!!

moc moc a moc

Hmm, it's not like the French to suddenly turn 180 degrees and run from their previous sworn declarations...

dr.fuzzenstein

Marcusm wrote: »

The article is a little confusing. Some of the clear parts are that

1. France will no longer proactively support diesel by having reduced tax rates (as is the case in Ireland also)
2. there will be a subsidy for scrapping a diesel car and moving to an electric one - which should be odd as they are at the opposite end of the range anxiety spectrum
3. the car registration will be adjusted to allow dirty diesel cars to be identified and excluded from certain (presumably) urban zones.

This last point is already in place in Portugal and is behind LOndon's proposed ULEZ. EU member states will be fined for particulate and NOx pollution - this is completely separate to CO2 and, in London at least, has been made worse by the transfer to diesel. Apparently the west end of London (coincidentally where i live with my 3 petrol engined cars) has the worst air pollution in Europe and it can't carry on.

FINALLY! It's time to get rid of all these cancer-spewing, fume-belching buses and trucks. And diesel powered trains where applicable.

EazyD

I agree with this tbh.

BMJD

Great news! Je t'aime les filles chaudes!

nc19

From a country that made some of the worst cars ever both petrol and diesel I personally view this report as long over due.

As a country they should be banned for all motor industry related endeavours imo

debabyjesus

Chronic smog in paris this summer, they were doing a reg based exclusion from the city centre some days.

The glory days of diesels look to be numbered, no more xuds or afns, ruined by emission controls and tree huggers.

listermint

debabyjesus wrote: »

Chronic smog in paris this summer, they were doing a reg based exclusion from the city centre some days.

The glory days of diesels look to be numbered, no more xuds or afns, ruined by emission controls and tree huggers.

Is there such a thing !

debabyjesus

listermint wrote: »

Is there such a thing !

Yeah for me it was mid 90's but i just love clattering old oil burners i guess

hfallada

Paris had a near constant smug this summer and it was mainly down to the fumes of the diesel cars. Which are extremely common in Paris due to the fact they are cheaper. They have to reduce Diesel usage otherwise they will have poor air quality. Although its funny how air quality is such a concern in Europe. Yet in health conscious LA, no one is phased by the thick smog which is mainly due to lack of rain.

stimpson

hfallada wrote: »

Paris had a near constant smug this summer

I know this was a typo, but I LOLed.

Foxhole Norman

nc19 wrote: »

From a country that made some of the worst cars ever both petrol and diesel I personally view this report as long over due.

As a country they should be banned for all motor industry related endeavours imo

They also made some of the best cars ever.

Cee-Jay-Cee

I shudder to think of the type of electric cars that are going to be produced by Peugeit Citroen and Renault when they currently can't produce a car that manages to last a full year without a litany of electrical problems. It's actually laughable!

pcardin

nc19 wrote: »

From a country that made some of the worst cars ever both petrol and diesel I personally view this report as long over due.

As a country they should be banned for all motor industry related endeavours imo

drinking too much? Or was it Ireland you're talking about? :pac:

JC01

LIGHTNING wrote: »

For posting that I think you should be perma-banned from the motors forum. The French have given so much to the motor industry probably as much if not more than any nation.

Citroen alone has given us self-levelling suspension, first monocoque, first mass produced front wheel car, swivelling headlights. They have also won the WRC more than any other car company. They were also using aerodynamics long before other companies.

And that's just Citreon...

There cars are still muck though...

Foxhole Norman

:rolleyes:

Breffnigolfer

JC01 wrote: »

There cars are still muck though...

In France cars are still muck? What do you mean?

Chimaera

Wait until these people find out how bad production of lithium batteries is for the environment....

JC01

LIGHTNING wrote: »

The DS, 2CV,Traction Avant,CX,C4 are muck? Right your either a troll or an idiot. Either way I wont reply to your posts from now on.

Ahh apologies didn't realise I was an idiot for having different tastes in cars too you, the utter cheek of me.

Anyways on topic this has been bouncing around the trade for a while, with upcoming tougher regulations on non-CO emmisions a lot of the manufacturers are moving into highly strung small turbo petrol units in there fleet so it's only natural countries will "adjust" there tax systems to work with what's going to be on the road in 10 years time. I'm no fan of EU regulations in this area but for once they do seem to be making a move that is genuinely an effort to address serious health concerns.

JC01

Breffnigolfer wrote: »

In France cars are still muck? What do you mean?

I mean renaults, citroens and peugeots are poor quality cars. There manufacturing processes and quality control systems are light years behind the Japs and Germans.

JC01

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Good call you'd never seen a Japanese or German cars with the following issues:

Stretching timing chains
Nikasil issues
Injector problems
Swirl Flaps

Just do a search of the forum for sheer volume of issues people have had with Passats, Golf,BMW's. But sure you seem like an expert so you probably dont need to.

I'd recommend you buy a Mazda 6 diesel I heard they are bullet proof. Or a BMW diesel they never go wrong....

/sarcasm

Because a few hundred posts on an Irish motoring forum is a good measure of the collective results of a multi-billion euro industry.

/sarcasm

Alanstrainor

JC01 wrote: »

Because a few hundred posts on an Irish motoring forum is a good measure of the collective results of a multi-billion euro industry.

/sarcasm

Stop this train of discussion now please.

HandsomeDan

JC01 wrote: »

I mean renaults, citroens and peugeots are poor quality cars. There manufacturing processes and quality control systems are light years behind the Japs and Germans.

PSA and Renault consistently score higher for reliability on British Warranty Direct and German ADAC breakdown stats surveys.

I likes me Germans as much as anyone but reliable cars they are not.

listermint

Chimaera wrote: »

Wait until these people find out how bad production of lithium batteries is for the environment....

why cant they be hydrogen cells ? does everything have to be lithium ?

Chimaera

listermint wrote: »

why cant they be hydrogen cells ? does everything have to be lithium ?

They probably will be in 10-15 years but right now lithium battery technology is the only viable candidate for power and it's pretty ugly for the environment, but because all that damage is happening in the mines in China where we don't see it, we don't care.

dr.fuzzenstein

HandsomeDan wrote: »

PSA and Renault consistently score higher for reliability on British Warranty Direct and German ADAC breakdown stats surveys.

I likes me Germans as much as anyone but reliable cars they are not.

Which is why nowadays "built like a Mercedes" means trouble from the start, lots of niggles and bits falling off as you drive along.
Built like a BMW just means "Quite OK until it goes catastrophically wrong and needs a new engine"

VikingG

Just when I was looking at getting a new diesel......

dr.fuzzenstein

Chimaera wrote: »

They probably will be in 10-15 years but right now lithium battery technology is the only viable candidate for power and it's pretty ugly for the environment, but because all that damage is happening in the mines in China where we don't see it, we don't care.

Thank you!
But because this goes against Green Dogma, this point of view will be suppressed, ridiculed and met with nothing but hostility from the Birkenstock sandal brigade.

nc19

Foxhole Norman wrote: »

They also made some of the best cars ever.

Name 5

Special Circumstances

VikingG wrote: »

Just when I was looking at getting a new diesel......

Don't worry we will lag behind by at least 5 years. There will even be some great import bargains in the lag between the UK disincentivising oil burners and when we eventually do it.

The french are gonna go nuts over this, I wonder how long they can sit clogging the champs elysee in protest before the rattling tack tack tack and the clouds of soot force them to surrender. At least one renault will runaway self destruct, and several 1.6hdi will eat their turbos. As they all rev up to leave, the accumulated cancer particles from several hours of so many cars idling will be ejected en masse, prompting many fender benders in the reduced visibility.

Laying it on a bit thick I know, but not an implausible scenario.

nc19

LIGHTNING wrote: »

For posting that I think you should be perma-banned from the motors forum. The French have given so much to the motor industry probably as much if not more than any nation.

Citroen alone has given us self-levelling suspension, first monocoque, first mass produced front wheel car, swivelling headlights. They have also won the WRC more than any other car company. They were also using aerodynamics long before other companies.

And that's just Citreon...

I did a report on the 3 big french brands back in school. I know of their engineering prowess but imo this is negated by the likes of the Berlingo with its on/off switch for a brake pedal, the 206 - need I say more? -, the ridiculously bad electrics across the 3 brands etc., etc.

Nazi Germany gave us the Volkswagon, does that mean Nazis are good.......

listermint

Chimaera wrote: »

They probably will be in 10-15 years but right now lithium battery technology is the only viable candidate for power and it's pretty ugly for the environment, but because all that damage is happening in the mines in China where we don't see it, we don't care.

Id be surprised if it was anything like that length of time. Things are moving a pace in the sector the likes of Tesla and pushing hard for alternatives to traditional piston and fossil fuels arrangements.

There is alot of talk of Graphite/Graphene use now in Hydrogen fuel cells. I would think 5- 10 years would be more appropriate.

jimgoose

nc19 wrote: »

Name 5

Citroen 2CV
Citroen DS
Peugeot 504
Citroen Xantia
Peugeot 406


I'd agree anyone who buys a Renault is probably insane, right enough.

Foxhole Norman

Peugeot 205 GTI
Renault Sport Megane/Clio
Bugatti Veyron :pac:
Peugeot RCZ
Renault 5
Citroen DS
Renault Alpine

Idbatterim

does paris have a congestion charge or could they introduce one for diesels to get them out of the core of the city at least?

Breffnigolfer

nc19 wrote: »

I did a report on the 3 big french brands back in school. I know of their engineering prowess but imo this is negated by the likes of the Berlingo with its on/off switch for a brake pedal, the 206 - need I say more? ..............

Need you say more? Yes, you most certainly do, because what you've posted so far is far from comprehensive.

Breffnigolfer

JC01 wrote: »

I mean renaults, citroens and peugeots are poor quality cars. Their manufacturing processes and quality control systems are light years behind the Japs and Germans.

Toyota have been making equally bad tripe for the past 20 years. Look at the vvti stuff that was an unmitigated disaster with their dealer network replacing the engines by the thousand? Even this year they have recalled all solid red Avensis from 2003-09 because the paint was falling off them, and they are the self-proclaimed "best built cars in the world"?

The French cars are built to be driven, unlike the Japanese who don't seem to build anything pleasant to drive, apart from the odd Honda.

The best built cars these days are SKODA, infinitely superior to anything from any of the Japanese manufacturers.

HandsomeDan

Breffnigolfer wrote: »

Toyota have been making equally bad tripe for the past 20 years. Look at the vvti stuff that was an unmitigated disaster with their dealer network replacing the engines by the thousand? Even this year they have recalled all solid red Avensis from 2003-09 because the paint was falling off them, and they are the self-proclaimed "best built cars in the world"?

The French cars are built to be driven, unlike the Japanese who don't seem to build anything pleasant to drive, apart from the odd Honda.

The best built cars these days are SKODA, infinitely superior to anything from any of the Japanese manufacturers.

In fairness Toyota and Honda do well from a stats POV. It's the likes of VW that would have you scratching your head, particularly the b6 passat era stuff.

keithclancy

Electric Cars in France make sense:



Go Nuclear !!

Joe 90

nc19 wrote: »

Name 5

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/renault/alpine/alpine-renault-a110/1777832

dr.fuzzenstein

nc19 wrote: »

Name 5

Renault 1-5?

dr.fuzzenstein

Breffnigolfer wrote: »

Toyota have been making equally bad tripe for the past 20 years. Look at the vvti stuff that was an unmitigated disaster with their dealer network replacing the engines by the thousand? Even this year they have recalled all solid red Avensis from 2003-09 because the paint was falling off them, and they are the self-proclaimed "best built cars in the world"?

The French cars are built to be driven, unlike the Japanese who don't seem to build anything pleasant to drive, apart from the odd Honda.

The best built cars these days are SKODA, infinitely superior to anything from any of the Japanese manufacturers.

On what planet?

dgt

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

On what planet?

I can show you a yard full of Toyotas for breaking. Some crashed, others with engine issues (hg, piston rings, leg out of bed), gearbox problems, tinworm, electrical disasters (a few previas had shorted looms and went on fire for example)

The earlier stuff just rotted away, otherwise they wouldn't be there

I'm sure there are more out there and I'll see plenty more as I go along