Riello rdb burner

laois hibby

ran out of oil over the weekend and stuck a couple of barrels into tank until oil arrives on wednesday. Bled it as normal and nothing. the filter at the pump was manky. cleaned it and changed nozzle for new one.
The burner now won't lockout. The fan is working and that is it. electrodes and photo sensor are clean.
Any suggestions?

jimf

sounds like you may have a faulty photocell if the burner is running constantly and not firing or going to lockout

laois hibby

is ther any way of testing it to be sure?

anthonyos

If you disconnect it and see does it fire

laois hibby

tried it. Still the same

Dtp1979

laois hibby wrote: »

tried it. Still the same

Could be the control box

jimf

did you disconnect it from the control box or just pull it from the burner

laois hibby

just pulled it from the burner

Dtp1979

laois hibby wrote: »

just pulled it from the burner

Disconnect it from the control box

jimf

isolate power and disconnect it from control box if the cell is faulty burner will fire for approx. 4/5 secs and then go to lockout

laois hibby

still the same. Unplugged photo cell from control box. Still just the fan blowing.

Wearb

laois hibby wrote: »

still the same. Unplugged photo cell from control box. Still just the fan blowing.

Plug it back in and try the same with solenoid ie disconnect it and see if that makes it go to lockout.

Any dampness around the control box?

laois hibby

when unplugging the solenoid it does switch off but when i plug it back in it does the same again.
It won't go back to lock out.
There doesn't seem to be any dampness really

scudo2

laois hibby wrote: »

when unplugging the solenoid it does switch off but when i plug it back in it does the same again.
It won't go back to lock out.
There doesn't seem to be any dampness really

Faulty solonide. a cheap item that most service engineers or plumbing shops have in stock.
Replacing it is a DIY job if you want, but servicing with a flue gas analyzer is a proper service not a DIY service.

jimf

don't forget those rdb control boxes have a mind of their own as well

rdb and riello coils in general I think I changed maybe 2 in 6 years

maybe best to get somebody to have a look for you who will have whatever part is needed and get it set up properly as the master scudo pointed out

Wearb

jimf wrote: »

don't forget those rdb control boxes have a mind of their own as well

rdb and riello coils in general I think I changed maybe 2 in 6 years

maybe best to get somebody to have a look for you who will have whatever part is needed and get it set up properly as the master scudo pointed out

Who said scudo was the master????

jimf

Wearb wrote: »

Who said scudo was the master????

now as you mention it I think it was himself :D

I do know he referred to me recently as a part timer :eek::eek:

laois hibby

for some reason its working fine now. I had the solenoid un plugged for a while and plugged it back in and switched the power on and up she went. I have an engineer coming on Thursday. Thanks for your help

Wearb

jimf wrote: »

now as you mention it I think it was himself :D

I do know he referred to me recently as a part timer :eek::eek:

Compared to Scudo, we are all part-timers. I think scudo has been at them for nigh on 80 years by now I think he deserve the title of Master. As a matter of fact I am going to start a campaign to have Master beneath his name, rather than "registered user" What you think mods???

agusta

Wearb wrote: »

Plug it back in and try the same with solenoid ie disconnect it and see if that makes it go to lockout.

Any dampness around the control box?

Just wondering why would someone unplug the solenoid?,I cant see what it proves whether it goes to lockout or not..

Wearb

agusta wrote: »

Just wondering why would someone unplug the solenoid?,I cant see what it proves whether it goes to lockout or not..

On certain solenoid faults it can cause continuous running rather than lockout. If after disconnecting it, the boiler locks out, it proves that the solenoid was preventing the lockout.

jimf

I was always told to disconnect a coil from its power source rather than just from the stem


as its a magnetic field unless it has somewhere to discharge its energy it can cause burn out even a drill bit or screwdriver in the hole would probably save it

lets await the masters view us pupils are probably talkin schite in his absence

agusta

Wearb wrote: »

On certain solenoid faults it can cause continuous running rather than lockout. If after disconnecting it, the boiler locks out, it proves that the solenoid was preventing the lockout.

My viewpoint,if photocell proved good by disconnecting from control box,

, Continous running of a rdb burner can also be caused by the motor not giving 50 volts to control box and by a faulty control box.

So if solenoid is perfectly good and you disconnect it the burner might go to lockout out, but its still not ruling out the motor or control box.I would think the only way to be sure, is to test the solenoid resistance, which should be 100ohms

Wearb

agusta wrote: »

My viewpoint,if photocell proved good by disconnecting from control box,

, Continous running of a rdb burner can also be caused by the motor not giving 50 volts to control box and by a faulty control box.

So if solenoid is perfectly good and you disconnect it the burner will go to lockout out but its still not ruling out the motor or control box.I would think the only way to be sure, is to test the solenoid resistance, which should be 100ohms

So in your instance what was keeping the burner from going to lockout, seeing as it went to lockout when solenoid was disconnected?

They can fail with different faults and resistance measurement is always a good idea, as is voltage on white wire of motor.

jimf

I would think if the coil goes open circuit it can not complete the command from the control box hence continuous running

as the coil in a sense in now the end of the circuit

this is my understanding of open circuit voltage

to test disconnect 1 wire from the coil I think the burner wont go to lockout

agusta you have an rdb burner would you check please and let me know what happens

Wearb

I think open circuit would cause lockout. It is the partly burned out wiring that causes continuos running when caused by solenoid.
Perhaps the master will confirm this.

jimf

Wearb wrote: »

I think open circuit would cause lockout. It is the partly burned out wiring that causes continuos running when caused by solenoid.
Perhaps the master will confirm this.

but current can only exist when the circuit is closed

Wearb

jimf wrote: »

but current can only exist when the circuit is closed

There will be different resistance depending on how much damage there is to the coil, so the current/resistance may not be what the control box expected.

Oh where is Shane when I need him

jimf

Wearb wrote: »

There will be different resistance depending on how much damage there is to the coil, so the current/resistance may not be what the control box expected.

Oh where is Shane when I need him

snooping around in the backround bursting his whole laughing at us job****es talking through our rear orifices :eek::eek:

agusta

If a rdb solenoid goes open circuit,the motor would run continous.Also if the two wires are removed from solenoid the motor should still run continous as its and open circuit.
my take how to control box and solenoid coil communicate

A/ control box gives 27 volts dc to solenoid coil [to pull in needle valve]
V=IR
27=I x100
I=0.27 amps
control box looks for 0.27 amps approx back through the blue wire.

B/when the controls box gets 0.27amps approx back to the control box it drops the voltage being send out through the brown wire to 3 volts [to hold needle valve]
V=IR
3=I X 100
I=0.03amps
When the burner is in operation the control box should be receiving approx 0.03 amps approx back through the blue wire to the control box

then again i could be wrong:)

Wearb

agusta wrote: »

If a rdb solenoid goes open circuit,the motor would run continous.Also if the two wires are removed from solenoid the motor should still run continous as its and open circuit.
my take how to control box and solenoid coil communicate

A/ control box gives 27 volts dc to solenoid coil [to pull in needle valve]
V=IR
27=I x100
I=0.27 amps
control box looks for 0.27 amps approx back through the blue wire.

B/when the controls box gets 0.27amps approx back to the control box it drops the voltage being send out through the brown wire to 3 volts [to hold needle valve]
V=IR
3=I X 100
I=0.03amps
When the burner is in operation the control box should be receiving approx 0.03 amps approx back through the blue wire to the control box

then again i could be wrong:)

Your figures look correct ( I haven't done the calculation) but the solenoid going open circuit is the same as having it disconnected from control box. So open circuit solenoid doesn't cause continuous running. It is the incorrect resistance that causes continuous running, not total open circuit.
Perhaps I am not being very eloquent on my explanation and not getting my point across or else JimF may be right. But I doubt if a Munster man would know more than a Leinster man. They have been living off beating all blacks for way too long )))))
Ok back to my first Xmas party. It is starting to come to life and time for my rendition of BOOLAVOGUE.

scudo2

To much info in the public domain can lead to them googleing this in the future. They might get the boiler working, but its also helping OP's to do a diy repair without having to call an experenced service engineer that will also tune up boiler, use a flue gas analizer to check for good efficency and low exceptable levels of carbon monoxide, And do a safety inspection.

I'll gladly help out fellow Service engineers over the phone or PM (phone is best)

Or call me out and pay me!

agusta

Wearb wrote: »

Your figures look correct ( I haven't done the calculation) but the solenoid going open circuit is the same as having it disconnected from control box. So open circuit solenoid doesn't cause continuous running. It is the incorrect resistance that causes continuous running, not total open circuit.
Perhaps I am not being very eloquent on my explanation and not getting my point across or else JimF may be right. But I doubt if a Munster man would know more than a Leinster man. They have been living off beating all blacks for way too long )))))
Ok back to my first Xmas party. It is starting to come to life and time for my rendition of BOOLAVOGUE.

And we beat them in limerick ,enjoy the party

Wearb

scudo2 wrote: »

To much info in the public domain can lead to them googleing this in the future. They might get the boiler working, but its also helping OP's to do a diy repair without having to call an experenced service engineer that will also tune up boiler, use a flue gas analizer to check for good efficency and low exceptable levels of carbon monoxide, And do a safety inspection.

I'll gladly help out fellow Service engineers over the phone or PM (phone is best)

Or call me out and pay me!

Now JimF look at the trouble you have gotten me into.

,,,,,,as the sun was setting over the bright may meadows of Shelmalier (notice it's not Munster) Sorry mods that's an end to it, despite goading from the Munster men.

jimf

Wearb wrote: »

Your figures look correct ( I haven't done the calculation) but the solenoid going open circuit is the same as having it disconnected from control box. So open circuit solenoid doesn't cause continuous running. It is the incorrect resistance that causes continuous running, not total open circuit.
Perhaps I am not being very eloquent on my explanation and not getting my point across or else JimF may be right. But I doubt if a Munster man would know more than a Leinster man. They have been living off beating all blacks for way too long )))))
Ok back to my first Xmas party. It is starting to come to life and time for my rendition of BOOLAVOGUE.

and the last time limerick played wexford the score was 23 points in the diff as well oh but that was hurling short memories them wexford boys agusta

jimf

did anybody pull 1 wire off the coil in a running rdb to see what happens will it lockout or not

Wearb

jimf wrote: »

did anybody pull 1 wire off the coil in a running rdb to see what happens will it lockout or not

Grasping at straws now

laois hibby

jimf wrote: »

did anybody pull 1 wire off the coil in a running rdb to see what happens will it lockout or not

I did. Stayed running. Only when I pulled the capacitor did it stop. Got capicitor tested which was 100% and put everything back did the boiler fire

agusta

jimf wrote: »

did anybody pull 1 wire off the coil in a running rdb to see what happens will it lockout or not

In my rdb 2.2, before i start burner
a/ two wires off coil - then start burner -motor runs continous
b/ one wire off coil -then start burner - motor runs continous

jimf

Wearb wrote: »

Grasping at straws now

ive no more to offer so desperation is setting in :cool:

Wearb

agusta wrote: »

In my rdb 2.2, before i start burner
a/ two wires off coil - then start burner -motor runs continous
b/ one wire off coil -then start burner - motor runs continous

That's interesting. Seems to put my procedure to bed.

Wearb

jimf wrote: »

I was always told to disconnect a coil from its power source rather than just from the stem


as its a magnetic field unless it has somewhere to discharge its energy it can cause burn out even a drill bit or screwdriver in the hole would probably save it

lets await the masters view us pupils are probably talkin schite in his absence

Just noticed a part of this post Jim. I always pull off the coil during a service to make sure it cuts out the burner. So far I haven't damaged one (I hope). Do you think I should stick something in it when doing this or is it ok for the few seconds that I am doing it?

jimf

Wearb wrote: »

Just noticed a part of this post Jim. I always pull off the coil during a service to make sure it cuts out the burner. So far I haven't damaged one (I hope). Do you think I should stick something in it when doing this or is it ok for the few seconds that I am doing it?

it was years ago an old electrician told me this I think a coil being an elctro magnetic field has to be able to discharge its energy

now how long being disconnected before it causes damage I don't know

being a munster man we are not the brightest you know

Wearb

jimf wrote: »

it was years ago an old electrician told me this I think a coil being an elctro magnetic field has to be able to discharge its energy

now how long being disconnected before it causes damage I don't know

being a munster man we are not the brightest you know

I suppose it doesn't matter for a short time.
Yeah you are all a bit backward way out west not like the folks back east. Don't know how most teachers and gardai seem to come from there.

jimf

Wearb wrote: »

I suppose it doesn't matter for a short time.
Yeah you are all a bit backward way out west not like the folks back east. Don't know how most teachers and gardai seem to come from there.

the last time I checked munster was in the south

I see ye are as good at the ould geography in wexford as ye are at the hurling

Wearb

jimf wrote: »

the last time I checked munster was in the south

I see ye are as good at the ould geography in wexford as ye are at the hurling

When you are in the SSE everywhere is either north or west. Nah nah. As for the hurling... Tuppence looking down on one and a half pence.

Ok I am off the get some fittings. Just cut a 3/4" hydrodare to find it was heavy gauge. That's the trouble when you don't work with that stuff regularly enough to spot the extra thickness.
Had fittings for regular gauge.

jimf

Wearb wrote: »

When you are in the SSE everywhere is either north or west. Nah nah. As for the hurling... Tuppence looking down on one and a half pence.

Ok I am off the get some fittings. Just cut a 3/4" hydrodare to find it was heavy gauge. That's the trouble when you don't work with that stuff regularly enough to spot the extra thickness.
Had fittings for regular gauge.

grasping at straws now are we :P