getting springer into cover

bizidea

I have a springer 18 months old he has a great nose and plenty of drive will go through any cover if there is scent and will hunt open fields like a lunatic but won't hunt covers unless I am with him in it he will just go in and come back out one of the guys I shoot with thinks he is afraid he will lose me and that's why he keeps coming back out any suggestions how to get him hunting cover on his own

Dawggone

For goodness sake don't throw things into the cover to get him in!



Try and find easy cover with loads of rabbits and away you go.

bizidea

Dawggone I don't throw things in if there is game he will go through anything to flush it but he wont stay in cover even light cover unless I am hunting through it with him he wont hunt for anyone else either he wI'll just run around until he finds me my mate reckons that he is afraid he will lose me when he goes into cover and just comes straight back out this dog has the makings of a great dog just worried. With his lack of confidence in cover on his own

Dawggone

bizidea wrote: »

Dawggone I don't throw things in if there is game he will go through anything to flush it but he wont stay in cover even light cover unless I am hunting through it with him he wont hunt for anyone else either he wI'll just run around until he finds me my mate reckons that he is afraid he will lose me when he goes into cover and just comes straight back out this dog has the makings of a great dog just worried. With his lack of confidence in cover on his own

What age is dog?

bizidea

Dawggone wrote: »

What age is dog?

He is about 18 month's Dawggone

Dawggone

bizidea wrote: »

He is about 18 month's Dawggone

Ok. Plenty rabbits. Don't tire him out when after rabbits. Pick him up before he tires.

bizidea

Dawggone wrote: »

Ok. Plenty rabbits. Don't tire him out when after rabbits. Pick him up before he tires.

Thanks Dawggone will try that never had springer before only setters so not really used to them.another thing with him is he is not as keen to hunt with other dogs he works better on his own. Would this be usual with springer s

Spaniel heaven

I agree with everthing said above, rabbits rabbits and more rabbits it will help.

Saying all of that some spaniels are never natural "woodcock" dogs and wont hunt cover hard for no reward.

At 18 months you have plenty of time for him to come around.

Lastly I no you mentioned other dogs but try and introduce him again with hard hunting springers in heavy cover it usually works for me.

All springers are different most like to work together but some are just a one man dog.

allan450

all the advice above is spot on.is it his first season by any chance

Dawggone

bizidea wrote: »

Thanks Dawggone will try that never had springer before only setters so not really used to them.another thing with him is he is not as keen to hunt with other dogs he works better on his own. Would this be usual with springer s

If you can get an English setter from the correct lines they are better than springers for Woodcock.

fabwing

I would hunt him with another springer in cover , he is still young with much to learn

.

bizidea wrote: »

I have a springer 18 months old he has a great nose and plenty of drive will go through any cover if there is scent and will hunt open fields like a lunatic but won't hunt covers unless I am with him in it he will just go in and come back out one of the guys I shoot with thinks he is afraid he will lose me and that's why he keeps coming back out any suggestions how to get him hunting cover on his own

Dawggone

fabwing wrote: »

I would hunt him with another springer in cover , he is still young with much to learn

.

Sorry I strongly disagree. It works but is a lazy shortcut.
If the two dogs are your own it's hard to handle the two together. If someone else has the second dog then two people can confuse or make the young dog a bit "deaf" to you.

I wouldn't hunt him with another dog until he is ready...which is usually when he is hunting hard, under control, and ready for the final polish.
Doctors differ....

ace86

if you have anywhere near u with light sallys/trees that he can run into and out but can also see u while he's hunting and just keep encouraging while he is in there and if he rattles something all the better its basically a learning curve but it takes time, i find u won't a good season with any dog until there 3 at least.

ronn

You said if there's something in there he'll go in no problems, my springer won't go into cover unless there's something in there, she'd bulldoze the ditch till she flushed what's in there and she won't go past a ditch that has something in it, but if I send her in she'll go in under protest of course(women), A Sensible Springer I call her, 😀😀😗

fiestaman

If a pheasant or woodcock is sitting tight in heavy cover there won't be much scent if any so you need the dog to go to cover if you give the command. That's why a springer wins over a HPR on woodcock as most of the time the spaniel bumps the bird with all the commotion, not always scent. As the lads said get rabbits in around furs bushes and let it build it's confidence, still a young dog.

Remember me?

fiestaman wrote: »

If a pheasant or woodcock is sitting tight in heavy cover there won't be much scent if any so you need the dog to go to cover if you give the command. That's why a springer wins over a HPR on woodcock as most of the time the spaniel bumps the bird with all the commotion, not always scent. As the lads said get rabbits in around furs bushes and let it build it's confidence, still a young dog.

Correct!

Dawggone

Remember me? wrote: »

Correct!

+1.
What if the pointer/Setter/hpr also rattle cover?

bizidea

Allan450 had him out Towards the end of the season last year the other guys couldn't believe the way he worked the first day out Bulldozed a hedge out of it to flush a cock out and went back into a field where two other experienced dogs had left to flush another bird.he was hunting cover well last year but this year he just seems to have lost the confidence. The other dogs are not my own doggawn Will try all your suggestions lads thanks maybe he just isn't ready yet to hunt with other dogs

fiestaman

Dawggone wrote: »

+1.
What if the pointer/Setter/hpr also rattle cover?

That's fair enough, just you wouldn't hear of many doing it.

fiestaman

bizidea wrote: »

Allan450 had him out Towards the end of the season last year the other guys couldn't believe the way he worked the first day out Bulldozed a hedge out of it to flush a cock out and went back into a field where two other experienced dogs had left to flush another bird.he was hunting cover well last year but this year he just seems to have lost the confidence. The other dogs are not my own doggawn Will try all your suggestions lads thanks maybe he just isn't ready yet to hunt with other dogs

Maybe the other dogs are in before him and maybe retrieving birds shot that he flushed and now he's not bothering his arse, just like me and you if we were on the town and you done all the talking to a tidy woman and I ended up taking her home. You wouldn't have much interest going out with me next week would ya? :-)

allan450

Dawggone wrote: »

If you can get an English setter from the correct lines they are better than springers for Woodcock.

not the same im afraid.i used pointers for woodcock before and its not the same as using a flushing dog not as exciting and more challenging with flushing dogs.

Dawggone

fiestaman wrote: »

That's fair enough, just you wouldn't hear of many doing it.

The top dogs will put springers to shame.

fiestaman

Dawggone wrote: »

The top dogs will put springers to shame.

No couldn't agree there, a top springer from old lines bred for woodcock would not be put to shame by a pointer or setter.

bizidea

Never thought of it like that fiestaman lol think I'll hunt him on his own for a while and see how he goes

allan450

Dawggone wrote: »

+1.
What if the pointer/Setter/hpr also rattle cover?

its still going to point well not all the time no good if the dog is in cover and you cant see it point either or the woodcock runs which they do 40 yards or so gets up out of range.spaniels are the best for woodcock.

Remember me?

Dawggone wrote: »

The top dogs will put springers to shame.

I don't disagree for one second . Horses for courses. I prefer the spaniel but have no doubt the setter can do the same if not better ........

allan450

bizidea wrote: »

Never thought of it like that fiestaman lol think I'll hunt him on his own for a while and see how he goes

you have nothing to worry about if he was hitting cover last year.you might be putting to much pressure on him to hunt cover would i be right in saying that[been their before] let him get a few flushes on woodcock/rabbits out of cover he wont be long think cover=game.The end of the season he will be a different dog.

Dawggone

fiestaman wrote: »

No couldn't agree there, a top springer from old lines bred for woodcock would not be put to shame by a pointer or setter.

Agreed. I actually had one. He was the size of a setter with paws like a lion. He would work all day five days a week.
Had to add a pound of lard to his feed to keep weight on him.
Got to shoot woodcock all over the UK and Ireland because of him.
I've setters as good as him now but not better.

bizidea

Allan450 don't think I put too much pressure on him Tried him a couple of times during the day when we were out but he would just run in and almost straight out unless I was in the cover with him

Dawggone

allan450 wrote: »

its still going to point well not all the time no good if the dog is in cover and you cant see it point either or the woodcock runs which they do 40 yards or so gets up out of range.spaniels are the best for woodcock.

My setters don't point in cover, they flush like a springer.

allan450

see how he gets on in 2 to 3 weeks.its very hard to judge a dog over a form.drop me a pm in a few weeks if he is still the same.can you push him into planton and let him beat along side you are will he come out of their also

bizidea

Would love to get a springer from old lines I've only seen two that I would say were from old style lines they were bride valley dogs they were both bitches and they were tanks might get my hands on a pup sometime I hope I'm promised a pup if they are bred

bizidea

Allan450 at the moment I think he would just come back out will try it out Sunday

allan450

they dont need to be old lines you just need to know what your looking for.

Dawggone

allan450 wrote: »

they dont need to be old lines you just need to know what your looking for.

Ohh tough one...Twomey's Bride Valley could hunt.
They loved cover and would hammer it. Good kennel. Had a great bitch from him but she made noise...
Bridevalley springers were damn fine dogs. End of.

But not quite the "old fashioned" type as they had style.

Woodcock shot

ronn wrote: »

You said if there's something in there he'll go in no problems, my springer won't go into cover unless there's something in there, she'd bulldoze the ditch till she flushed what's in there and she won't go past a ditch that has something in it, but if I send her in she'll go in under protest of course(women), A Sensible Springer I call her, 😀😀😗

Agree 100%, they are no fools, my bitch is the same, won't pass a ditch with something in it but won't kill herself for nothing, still you're always wondering is she passing something,
I have to agree with op too mine seems to work way better on her own

snipe49

bizidea wrote: »

Would love to get a springer from old lines I've only seen two that I would say were from old style lines they were bride valley dogs they were both bitches and they were tanks might get my hands on a pup sometime I hope I'm promised a pup if they are bred

I have a bitch he along them lines a real tank weight in at four and a half shone will rip cover out of the ground and a lovely girl around the house.

snipe49

bizidea wrote: »

Allan450 at the moment I think he would just come back out will try it out Sunday

Was she going in better at the end of last season or mid season' some dog get to dislike for cover and no amount of incoragment will get them to stay in. Is he from good cover dogs ?

Dawggone

Woodcock shot wrote: »

Agree 100%, they are no fools, my bitch is the same, won't pass a ditch with something in it but won't kill herself for nothing, still you're always wondering is she passing something,
I have to agree with op too mine seems to work way better on her own

Hateful. Couldn't have a springer that didn't hammer cover. If I want a springer out of cover I call them otherwise someone else can be messing with them.

bizidea

Snipe think he was hunting cover a bit better the end of last season.he is not pure bred the bitch has papers but the dog hadn't but the dog is a serious tank for cover and legendary around here for his retrieves off water although I don't do a lot of duck shooting myself it was more the size and style of the dog I was after when I bought the pup

snipe49

bizidea wrote: »

Snipe think he was hunting cover a bit better the end of last season.he is not pure bred the bitch has papers but the dog hadn't but the dog is a serious tank for cover and legendary around here for his retrieves off water although I don't do a lot of duck shooting myself it was more the size and style of the dog I was after when I bought the pup

I'd give him a few more outings and rather then bringing him on rabbit go out and shoot a few then one at a time drag it through just light cover to start with do this with 3 or 4 while he is in the car then bring him in he should track the sent but this time he will have a reward for his hard work in the retrieve. Do this with all the rabbits don't make them hard to track to start with and give him loads of praise . hope this is some help.

sniper83

bizidea wrote: »

I have a springer 18 months old he has a great nose and plenty of drive will go through any cover if there is scent and will hunt open fields like a lunatic but won't hunt covers unless I am with him in it he will just go in and come back out one of the guys I shoot with thinks he is afraid he will lose me and that's why he keeps coming back out any suggestions how to get him hunting cover on his own

Patients lad and lots of it, he's only young yet. It can be very frustrating though when you know its in a dog to hunt cover, we've all been there!.
Rabbits are great if you have access to them in cover, hunting them in green fields isn't much use if hes hunting nicely already but wont hunt cover.

All dogs are different but il give you my 2 cents.
If he is a good retriever and has a good nose, I would plant some dummys or cold game into light cover like a plantation or hazels, remember where you left the cold game/dummys!!! leave some a couple of yards inside and throw some in a bit further but space them out as you got down along the plantation/wood. Id use at least half a dozen.

You need to gradually build up his confidence, you are rewarding him for entering the cover with a retrieve, you might even get a flush this time of the year when he goes in.

Now go back to the car and get the dog, walk along the edge of the wood with the wind blowing to suit the dog.
Id have him on a lead, make sure the first few retrieves are HANDY for him to get to.
For the first one bring him to the edge of the wood and at a gap, wait a few seconds, even a minute or two. If he winds the dummy/bird then great!!!! he'l be eager to go in. Point at the gap and tell him to GET IN. He should go in and retrieve, continue along the edge with him off the lead and click him IN again at the next gap for the next retrieve and so on.

20 minutes of this exercise twice a day if you can, short and simple and praise him when he does it right!
He ent going to turn into a miller of a dog in cover over night, but if he has the key ingredients which it sounds like he does btw and you keep it short and simple the penny will eventually start to drop. Hope this helps best of luck!

snipe49

sniper83 wrote: »

Patients lad and lots of it, he's only young yet. It can be very frustrating though when you know its in a dog to hunt cover, we've all been there!.
Rabbits are great if you have access to them in cover, hunting them in green fields isn't much use if hes hunting nicely already but wont hunt cover.

All dogs are different but il give you my 2 cents.
If he is a good retriever and has a good nose, I would plant some dummys or cold game into light cover like a plantation or hazels, remember where you left the cold game/dummys!!! leave some a couple of yards inside and throw some in a bit further but space them out as you got down along the plantation/wood. Id use at least half a dozen.

You need to gradually build up his confidence, you are rewarding him for entering the cover with a retrieve, you might even get a flush this time of the year when he goes in.

Now go back to the car and get the dog, walk along the edge of the wood with the wind blowing to suit the dog.
Id have him on a lead, make sure the first few retrieves are HANDY for him to get to.
For the first one bring him to the edge of the wood and at a gap, wait a few seconds, even a minute or two. If he winds the dummy/bird then great!!!! he'l be eager to go in. Point at the gap and tell him to GET IN. He should go in and retrieve, continue along the edge with him off the lead and click him IN again at the next gap for the next retrieve and so on.

20 minutes of this exercise twice a day if you can, short and simple and praise him when he does it right!
He ent going to turn into a miller of a dog in cover over night, but if he has the key ingredients which it sounds like he does btw and you keep it short and simple the penny will eventually start to drop. Hope this helps best of luck!

Something along the lines of mine there pal the comment before your

bizidea

How ye lads had him out yesterday he was like a different dog started him off in a couple of lighter coverş which I beat with him he had two flushes on woodcock but I couldn't get a safe shot the guys on the outside had no shot at the first bird and a miss on the second it's always when you need a bird for a dog you don't get them. On to anothter cover and he was straight in hunting flushed another woodcock which one of the lads nailed it fell in fairly heavy cover he was straight in and retrieved straight into my hand it wasn't a long retrieve but I was delighted. After that he hunted away with no problems even hunted fairly heavy coverş on his own which he went in on his own and stayed in my faith has been restored in this dog think he has the makings of a right little dinger of a dog

snipe49

bizidea wrote: »

How ye lads had him out yesterday he was like a different dog started him off in a couple of lighter coverş which I beat with him he had two flushes on woodcock but I couldn't get a safe shot the guys on the outside had no shot at the first bird and a miss on the second it's always when you need a bird for a dog you don't get them. On to anothter cover and he was straight in hunting flushed another woodcock which one of the lads nailed it fell in fairly heavy cover he was straight in and retrieved straight into my hand it wasn't a long retrieve but I was delighted. After that he hunted away with no problems even hunted fairly heavy coverş on his own which he went in on his own and stayed in my faith has been restored in this dog think he has the makings of a right little dinger of a dog

Great stuff but take it handy this season with him and u'll have a great dog next year.

allan450

dogs will test your patients more times you will have bad days then good.but thats the joys of it i guess.

sniper83

snipe49 wrote: »

Something along the lines of mine there pal the comment before your

Didnt mean to steal your thunder mate, your post was a good suggestion.
I was giving the him another option;)
I prefer to use dummys/cold game myself. I sometimes use the drag method for younger dogs to get them going in cover only issue is are they following your scent or the rabbit, it can be a great help depending on the dog, but I wouldnt over do it.
Anyway, seems like he's sorted the dog is associating cover with birds and the penny is beginning to drop with him.