Munster vs Ulster match thread, Fri 28 Nov 7:45pm; TG4/BBCNI

thomond2006

Good to see Ulster back again at Thomond after last year's fixture was called off.

Munster:
JJ Hanrahan, Gerhard van den Heever, Pat Howard, Denis Hurley, Ronan O'Mahony; Ian Keatley, Duncan Williams;
John Ryan, Duncan Casey, BJ Botha; Donncha O'Callaghan - capt, Billy Holland; Robin Copeland, Paddy Butler, CJ Stander

Replacements: Kevin O'Byrne, Dave Kilcoyne, Stephen Archer, Tommy O'Donnell, Sean Dougall, Neil Cronin, Andrew Smith, Felix Jones

Ulster:
(15-9): S Olding; L Ludik, D Cave, S McCloskey C Gilroy, I Humphreys, P Marshall;
(1-8): C Black, R Best (Capt), W Herbst, A O’Connor, F vd Merwe, R Wilson, S Reidy, N Williams;

Replacements (16-23): R Herring, A Warwick, D Fitzpatrick, L Stevenson, R Diack, M Heaney, M Allen, P Nelson.

This is a crucial match in the context of the league. There is a 4 point gap between both sides and Leinster in 5th so a win here would further solidify a playoff place and keep the winner in the hunt for a home semi-final. Munster's next league matches are Glasgow (A) and Leinster (H) so a win here would be very welcome!

In terms of team news for Munster, the most interesting selection is the retention of JJ Hanrahan at fullback. It appears he is now 2nd choice fullback should anything happen to Felix Jones. The main internationals are rested so O'Connell, O'Mahony, Murray and Zebo are left out but the benchers are back in (Kilcoyne, O'Donnell and Jones) onto the Munster bench. Cathal Sheridan injured a forearm against Dragons so Neil Cronin is on the bench. Pat Howard starting at 13 suggests he is here for more than just cover as a good performance could mean his addition to the European squad. Conway is presumably out due to the concussion last week.

Even without Tommy Bowe and Jared Payne Ulster's backline looks extremely potent if they can be supplied ball by Marshall and Humphreys! Munster's backline looks callow in comparison, a new centre partnership and a relatively inexperienced back three. Hurley vs McCloskey could deliver some big hits!

awec

thomond2006

Munster team announced. JJ at 15 again!

former legend

Ulster

Munster team is out:

JJ
GvdH, Howard, Hurley, ROM
Keatley, Williams
J Ryan, Casey, BJ
DOC, Holland
Copeland, Butler, Stander

Subs:
O'Byrne, Kilcoyne, Archer, O'Donnell, Dougall, Neil Cronin, Smith, Jones

Who the FOCK is Neil Cronin?

budhabob

Ulster

Munster team Named:
Munster: JJ Hanrahan, Gerhard van den Heever, Pat Howard, Denis Hurley, Ronan O'Mahony; Ian Keatley, Duncan Williams; John Ryan, Duncan Casey, BJ Botha; Donncha O'Callaghan - capt, Billy Holland; Robin Copeland, Paddy Butler, CJ Stander

Replacements: Kevin O'Byrne, Dave Kilcoyne, Stephen Archer, Tommy O'Donnell, Sean Dougall, Neil Cronin, Andrew Smith, Felix Jones

http://www.munsterrugby.ie/rugby/19499.php

Interesting to see JJ at full back again. Also looking forward at seeing howard start, decent enough team all things considered.

Cookiemunster

The Munster team is in.

Munster Rugby ‏@Munsterrugby 8m8 minutes ago

Munster XV v Ulster: JJ, GvdH, Howard, Hurley, RO’M; Keats, Williams; J Ryan, Casey, BJ; DO’C–capt, B Holland; Copeland, Butler, CJ #MunVUls

Munster Rugby ‏@Munsterrugby 8m8 minutes ago

Replacements #MunVUls: O’Byrne, Kilcoyne, Archer, O’Donnell, Dougall, Neil Cronin, Smith, Jones

former legend

Ulster

(15-9): S Olding; L Ludik, D Cave, S McCloskey C Gilroy, I Humphreys, P Marshall; (1-8): C Black, R Best (Capt), W Herbst, A O’Connor, F vd Merwe, R Wilson, S Reidy, N Williams;
Replacements (16-23): R Herring, A Warwick, D Fitzpatrick, L Stevenson, R Diack, M Heaney, M Allen, P Nelson.

Cookiemunster

former legend wrote: »

Who the FOCK is Neil Cronin?

I wondered the same thing. But luckily MR have told us that in-form Garryowen scrum half Neil Cronin is included amongst the replacements.

awec

former legend wrote: »

(15-9): S Olding; L Ludik, D Cave, S McCloskey C Gilroy, I Humphreys, P Marshall; (1-8): C Black, R Best (Capt), W Herbst, A O’Connor, F vd Merwe, R Wilson, S Reidy, N Williams;
Replacements (16-23): R Herring, A Warwick, D Fitzpatrick, L Stevenson, R Diack, M Heaney, M Allen, P Nelson.

We can win this...

postitnote

Dylan Hartley

Well Olding, if you're going to prove you should be going to the RWC, now's the time to start showing the rest of Ireland what us Ulster fans have known for a while.

Ulster by 8

awec

If I were Neil Doak I'd have Cave, McCloskey and Olding running at Howard and Hurley all day long.

former legend

Ulster

Considering Payne allegedly only missed the Australia game by a day or two, I'd have expected him to be involved tomorrow; has there been any update on him?

thomond2006

It's a big test for John Ryan against Herbst and Best.

sydthebeat

Dylan Hartley

has ludik play many game sat 14 lately?

awec

former legend wrote: »

Who the FOCK is Neil Cronin?

Sean's brother (seriously).

Tox56

former legend wrote: »

Munster team is out:

JJ
GvdH, Howard, Hurley, ROM
Keatley, Williams
J Ryan, Casey, BJ
DOC, Holland
Copeland, Butler, Stander

Subs:
O'Byrne, Kilcoyne, Archer, O'Donnell, Dougall, Neil Cronin, Smith, Jones

Who the FOCK is Neil Cronin?

So they are happy to have JJ and Keatley on the pitch together, but at 15 instead of 12?! All things considered surely Keatley-JJ is Munster's best 10-12

thomond2006

Tox56 wrote: »

So they are happy to have JJ and Keatley on the pitch together, but at 15 instead of 12?! All things considered surely Keatley-JJ is Munster's best 10-12

He could be the next Warwick! That's a very exciting prospect.

Buer

He could never be the next Warwick.

JJ can tackle!

shuffol

Ludiks played the last 2 games at 14, is a solid option there. Humphries is the big hinge factor in this one, if he plays well Ulster have a good chance.

bilston

shuffol wrote: »

Ludiks played the last 2 games at 14, is a solid option there. Humphries is the big hinge factor in this one, if he plays well Ulster have a good chance.

Agreed. Looking at the half backs both 9s could have 'mares, Keatley is more reliable than Humphreys but if Humphreys can turn it on then that could be a factor alright. If Ulster get a foothold up front and the half backs have one of their better days I fancy we have the backs that could win the game. Then again it's impossible to predict Ulster and Munster games, they are a bit like Ireland Wales games. The underdog often wins. Not sure who the underdog would be for this one though!

Mr.Applepie

former legend wrote: »

Considering Payne allegedly only missed the Australia game by a day or two, I'd have expected him to be involved tomorrow; has there been any update on him?

I remember a 1/2 time interview with him during the oh so impartial BBC2 coverage of the Ulster game last week and they mentioned he was still in a moon boot. I doubt he was ever in contention for the Aus game.

letowski

I think Ulster have the strongest 15, to be fair. Our backrow is imbalanced. I find it surprising that Howard goes straight in tomorrow, it think we need Hurley and Smith together, to keep building on their defensive understanding. They will be up against Fofana and Davies in 14 days.

.ak

former legend wrote: »

Considering Payne allegedly only missed the Australia game by a day or two, I'd have expected him to be involved tomorrow; has there been any update on him?

I think the rush to get a player on the pitch for an international game is always different compared to a league game. A player that's 70-80% fit will be picked for the test team but for a league game they'd probably afford to rest him to get him back to 100%.

Fireball07

thomond2006 wrote: »

Good to see Ulster back again at Thomond after last year's fixture was called off.

Munster:
JJ Hanrahan, Gerhard van den Heever, Pat Howard, Denis Hurley, Ronan O'Mahony; Ian Keatley, Duncan Williams;
John Ryan, Duncan Casey, BJ Botha; Donncha O'Callaghan - capt, Billy Holland; Robin Copeland, Paddy Butler, CJ Stander

Replacements: Kevin O'Byrne, Dave Kilcoyne, Stephen Archer, Tommy O'Donnell, Sean Dougall, Neil Cronin, Andrew Smith, Felix Jones

Ulster:
(15-9): S Olding; L Ludik, D Cave, S McCloskey C Gilroy, I Humphreys, P Marshall;
(1-8): C Black, R Best (Capt), W Herbst, A O’Connor, F vd Merwe, R Wilson, S Reidy, N Williams;

Replacements (16-23): R Herring, A Warwick, D Fitzpatrick, L Stevenson, R Diack, M Heaney, M Allen, P Nelson.

This is a crucial match in the context of the league. There is a 4 point gap between both sides and Leinster in 5th so a win here would further solidify a playoff place and keep the winner in the hunt for a home semi-final. Munster's next league matches are Glasgow (A) and Leinster (H) so a win here would be very welcome!

In terms of team news for Munster, the most interesting selection is the retention of JJ Hanrahan at fullback. It appears he is now 2nd choice fullback should anything happen to Felix Jones. The main internationals are rested so O'Connell, O'Mahony, Murray and Zebo are left out but the benchers are back in (Kilcoyne, O'Donnell and Jones) onto the Munster bench. Cathal Sheridan injured a forearm against Dragons so Neil Cronin is on the bench. Pat Howard starting at 13 suggests he is here for more than just cover as a good performance could mean his addition to the European squad. Conway is presumably out due to the concussion last week.

Even without Tommy Bowe and Jared Payne Ulster's backline looks extremely potent if they can be supplied ball by Marshall and Humphreys! Munster's backline looks callow in comparison, a new centre partnership and a relatively inexperienced back three. Hurley vs McCloskey could deliver some big hits!

On paper, that Ulster team is much stronger.

We've a decent pack, but Ryan at 1 rather than Killer is a bit of surprise and weakens us there. I thought Foley would be involved too... and why do we have 2 7s on the bench but none on the pitch? Copeland at 6, Stander at 8 too? That's basically 3 8's in the back row if Stander is getting picked there ahead of 2 out-and-out 8s.


And the whole JJ at 15 thing... it's interesting, but I'd prefer to see an actual full-back in Hurley at 15, with JJ at 12 tbh. Hope Howard is good. ROM makes it ahead of LOD.

Never seen Cronin play, hope he's good.

otbrugby

Butler being an out an out 8 is becoming less and less so..
the idea of a backrow only being an 8 is becoming very outdated.

vienne86

Ulster

Full backs of Olding and JJ - interesting. The Ulster team look better on paper, but after last week's performance, I wouldn't fancy them. Plus, Munster in Thomond.....and they are grinding out wins like the Munster of old. I think Munster will win this.

case885

Ulster

Really looking forward to see how Howard gets on, i dont think Smith is good enough at all and was a poor signing.
With the POM, POC, Murray Foley and Zebo rested i think Ulster will be favourites. Crazy Kilcoyne isn't starting he played 80 mins against Georgia, not exactly an enduring series for him likewise Tommy O Donnell.
Maybe Axel is underestimating this Ulster side.

Journeyman_1

Hoping for a cracker to watch before the toy show starts! Ulster by 5.

vienne86

Ulster

Makings of an excellent match here - great start to the weekend! What's Howard like? Never seen him. Did he play last week?

who_me

We're going to murderise them*

(* ok, apart from all 3 rows of the pack being a lot weaker than you'd like; 2 3rd choice players in the front row, 4th & 5th choices in the locks and lucky-bag selection of a back-row. A scrum half who tends to have at least one implosion a game. An out half who's having a major case of the kicking yips. A 10/centre at full-back and a full-back at 12. A young 13 who's still getting up to speed. A wing pairing we've never tried before. And a bit of a "so who's left" bench. But yeah, a thrashing.)

phog

Tox56 wrote: »

So they are happy to have JJ and Keatley on the pitch together, but at 15 instead of 12?! All things considered surely Keatley-JJ is Munster's best 10-12

I'd say if Bleyendaal arrived we'd have seen Keatley & JJ at 10/12 a few times already this season. It seems Foley wants Hurley at 12 for the H/cup so to give JJ match time at the moment he's slotting him in at FB.

The team selection is probably down to Foley targeting this game with the guys he knew he'd have rather than waiting to see who was to be managed back from the Irish Camp.

RoundBox11

Dylan Hartley

Id be very surprised if Munster win this. That's about as weak a team as Munster could put out. I dont understand the thinking behind 12 and 15. Surely jj would be better at 12 with Hurley, the actual fb at 15. Also I see no reason why Kilcoyne, TOD and Jones are being rested.

And that Ulster backline could do some serious damage against better defences.

jacothelad

RoundBox11 wrote: »

Id be very surprised if Munster win this. That's about as weak a team as Munster could put out. I dont understand the thinking behind 12 and 15. Surely jj would be better at 12 with Hurley, the actual fb at 15. Also I see no reason why Kilcoyne, TOD and Jones are being rested.

And that Ulster backline could do some serious damage against better defences.

You underestimate The Dwarf Marshall Effect on the Ulster back line.

Bah, hate the scheduling of this game.

bennyl10

Cookiemunster wrote: »

I wondered the same thing. But luckily MR have told us that in-form Garryowen scrum half Neil Cronin is included amongst the replacements.

Sean's younger brother afaik..

Was a great scrum half at schools level at Castletroy and carried it on through to club.

vienne86

Ulster

bennyl10 wrote: »

Sean's younger brother afaik..

Was a great scrum half at schools level at Castletroy and carried it on through to club.

Would love to see him get some game time tomorrow.....just curious.

who_me

bennyl10 wrote: »

Sean's younger brother afaik..

Was a great scrum half at schools level at Castletroy and carried it on through to club.

Wha? A Cronin who can actually throw?

(That's trolling gold, I should save that for the Ireland thread).

Ugh thought this was on tonight. Not only is it not on, I also have another day of work tomorrow before the weekend. I'm some dope.

Molester Stallone II

Ulster

who_me wrote: »

Wha? A Cronin who can actually throw?

(That's trolling gold, I should save that for the Ireland thread).

Ah in fairness, nobody has claimed he is able to throw either..........
( that's proper gold, nailing both family members)

vienne86

Ulster

Well if he can pass and if he has the brother's wheels, he could be very useful. Hope we get to see him tomorrow.

Zzippy

jacothelad wrote: »

You underestimate The Dwarf Marshall Effect on the Ulster back line.

You're spoiled with Pienaar, no player is going to measure up beside him, and you're never going to have a top quality SH as backup, but Marshall isn't that bad, and the dwarf comment is a bit harsh!

bilston

Zzippy wrote: »

You're spoiled with Pienaar, no player is going to measure up beside him, and you're never going to have a top quality SH as backup, but Marshall isn't that bad, and the dwarf comment is a bit harsh!

Marshall is a great bench option, he can open things up and as we know bringing pace to the game is his strength. Starting games is very hit and miss though.

If Marshall and Humphreys are given the platform by the pack and if they perform tomorrow then I think we have a real chance.

who_me

Molester Stallone II wrote: »

Ah in fairness, nobody has claimed he is able to throw either..........

Big enough game for him to be coming into. Not European cup but not far off it I'd say. Would be a great test for him, if he gets any time.

awec

Zzippy wrote: »

You're spoiled with Pienaar, no player is going to measure up beside him, and you're never going to have a top quality SH as backup, but Marshall isn't that bad, and the dwarf comment is a bit harsh!

Marshall does too many stupid things. He's unpredictable to the point I'm not even sure if his own teammates know what he's going to do.

Larbre34

Dylan Hartley

As a Leinster fan I'm thoroughly looking forward to this one, should be intriguing.

A draw would be nice!

shuffol

The most irritating thing for me about Marshall is the total drop in tempo when Ulster are in or near the opponents 22. He stands at every ruck and has a look around before passing.

thomond2006

South Terrace is being opened tonight due to demand. Good to see some positive news regarding ticket sales in TP for the league. Looks like Joe has given Irish rugby some momentum!

shaka

Presume there will be a minutes silence for Jack Kyle tonight although I'd prefer the stadium clapping for the minute. Just my own preference

bilston

shuffol wrote: »

The most irritating thing for me about Marshall is the total drop in tempo when Ulster are in or near the opponents 22. He stands at every ruck and has a look around before passing.

I think Ulster in gemeral.just run out of ideas when they get that close. A bit like Leinster old we are very good at striking in early phases because our backs are good at that but after multiple phases we can look a bit lost, I wouldn't say that is just down to Marshall.

awec

shuffol wrote: »

The most irritating thing for me about Marshall is the total drop in tempo when Ulster are in or near the opponents 22. He stands at every ruck and has a look around before passing.

Which is frustrating because Marshall's biggest quality is the tempo and pace he can bring.

case885

Ulster

thomond2006 wrote: »

South Terrace is being opened tonight due to demand. Good to see some positive news regarding ticket sales in TP for the league. Looks like Joe has given Irish rugby some momentum!

I'd say Munster's good run of form is just as much responsible as Joe's exploits.