Increase rent allowance Vs. Rent Control

Gannicus

PLEASE NOTE THAT THIS IS NOT ANOTHER WELFARE BASHING THREAD AND CAN WE PLEASE KEEP IT FROM GOING THAT WAY.

Mods if you could help keep it from becoming as such.


I've seen story after story of people living in their cars, the homeless day centre in bray is inundated with people needing assistance. It was mainly helping people in the bray area but now people are coming from all over and fair play to them for doing all they can to help anyone who needs it. Rents are going up like during booms times because of the housing crisis we currently face. People on social welfare capped at how much they can get from the social the working people are capped by their income and in a lot of cases do not qualify for any rental assistance. Rental increases are crucifying people across the board.

I was chatting with a friend of mine, he was say saying that the people on rent allowance are purely not getting enough help and if the bands are broadened and payments increased it would help a lot. My opinion there is that it will only help one section of society(landlords not included). I also feel that rent allowance helped to artificially inflate rental costs during the boom and would only help to do so again this time it could be worse.

For me I think rent control is a far more equitable way of covering people from different backgrounds, I feel it gives those classed as "the working poor", the rent allowance recipients, the lower middle class, and 3rd level students an equally fair chance of maintaining a roof above their heads.

So what say ye AH which side of the fence do you fall on in this debate.

Daith

Unless you fix the supply first nothing else matters.

I would say having proper 1 bed/single person apartments/studios would help alot.

The Moldy Gowl

Don't bash the dole you say?? You're not my mother.



Dole dole dole dole dole dole dole bash bash bash lazy lazy lazy handouts for handout.

Can't believe they get money for rent and I have to pay for their rent.

The Moldy Gowl

I give the mods ban allowance so they can't ban me. They can't help you here

Gatling

Daith wrote: »

Unless you fix the supply first nothing else matters.

I would say having proper 1 bed/single person apartments/studios would help alot.

It would help but every time these sob stories pop up in the media it's always the same I only want the 3 bed house that I'm Entitled to .

Personal responsibility needs to be accepted too

kneemos

If you cap rents whose going to rent their property's?

Gannicus

Daith wrote: »

Unless you fix the supply first nothing else matters.

I would say having proper 1 bed/single person apartments/studios would help alot.

I don't think its quite that simple. look at the previous housing boom supply was being provided to beat the band and people were buying properties to rent left right and centre.

I think a solid rental control structure would trigger an increase in housing supply but would stem any sort of bubble again as rents could not spin wildly out of control along with the market value of houses.

kneemos wrote: »

If you cap rents whose going to rent their property's?

I don't think capping rents would help. I think capping the increases may help (eg max 15% increase every 18 months)

GLaDOS

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

Don't bash the dole you say?? You're not my mother.



Dole dole dole dole dole dole dole bash bash bash lazy lazy lazy handouts for handout.

Can't believe they get money for rent and I have to pay for their rent.

Please try and keep your contributions constructive

Posts like the above only serve to troll

allibastor

If you have rent control though it will need to be universal. If you only have it in certain areas then the waiting lists for these will be massive, and you will have people moaning about that also.

Look at new York, and rent control area has waiting lists of 2 or more years.

Gatling

You'd be better off reviewing who's entitled to social housing .
And making rent supplement a short term payment .

Daith

Gatling wrote: »

It would help but every time these sob stories pop up in the media it's always the same I only want the 3 bed house that I'm Entitled to .

Personal responsibility needs to be accepted too

What I mean is

We have people taking up 3 bed houses/apartments whatever because they can't afford to rent a place by themselves. So they are stuck in a house share.

Having cheaper/smaller apartments would free up more "family" units.

I agree that personal responsibility needs to be accepted and you may not get to live where you want to live.

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

Don't bash the dole you say?? You're not my mother.



Dole dole dole dole dole dole dole bash bash bash lazy lazy lazy handouts for handout.

Can't believe they get money for rent and I have to pay for their rent.

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

I give the mods ban allowance so they can't ban me. They can't help you here

I wouldn't think you've a lot of friends, or get invited to many places.

P_1

1 - Repeal the bedsit ban
2 - Start bloody building again in Dublin

Messing about with rent controls just sounds like a recipe for short term gain and a lot of long term pain.

_Kaiser_

kneemos wrote: »

If you cap rents whose going to rent their property's?

Seems to work in other countries.

The problem we have in this country is renting is still seen as "dead money" - a stepping stone most people have to put up with on the road to property ownership, or the choice for those who can't afford any better/the unemployed etc.

We badly need to get away from this obsession with owning our own semi-D in the country at any cost. It ruined the country once and it's starting again now because most people apparently haven't learned a thing. Worse, there is an element that actively expect "someone else" to pay for their bad decisions for them! All this talk of write-offs, handing back the house etc doesn't mean that the debt goes away.. it just gets transferred to other customers of that bank, and if that doesn't cover it they put in a call to their friendly TD or Finance Minister...

By all means, if you can affordably AND sustainably (with realistic stress tests) cover the costs of a mortgage then go for it.. but if not then you should just rent like much of the rest of the world, and we need to get rid of the stigma I referred to above around doing so.

We need to have a proper system for deposits, an effective means of resolving any complaints from either side quickly, and to a place where long-term rentals aren't just 2-3 years, but 20-30 with people being able to make the place a home (as opposed to the nonsense some landlords pull over even hanging a painting!)

But this being Ireland, and with so many of our TDs and "leaders" having property portfolios, I expect before too long the phrase "get on the property ladder" will be back in full swing - with all the negative effects we've already seen!

The Moldy Gowl

The Cunning Linguist wrote: »

I wouldn't think you've a lot of friends, or get invited to many places.

Ah you know me.

I was dropping the kids off at the pool.

Gannicus

allibastor wrote: »

If you have rent control though it will need to be universal. If you only have it in certain areas then the waiting lists for these will be massive, and you will have people moaning about that also.

Look at new York, and rent control area has waiting lists of 2 or more years.

I agree. I think it should be. A nationwide rent control scheme would be best served.

Iwasfrozen

Neither. The only way to solve the housing problem is to increase supply, rent controls will keep supply artificially low while rent allowance will push up prices.

Gannicus

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Neither. The only way to solve the housing problem is to increase supply, rent controls will keep supply artificially low while rent allowance will push up prices.

If it kept rent artificially low the rent allowance payments can be lowered reducing the bill on the exchequer or at the very least frozen. This will also help lower income working people maintain a survivable level of life. When people become more financially solvent they will start looking to buy and this will trigger a greater supply. This won't all happen over night but its a start

Timberrrrrrrr

If you raise rent allowance then LL's will just raise rents knowing that the SW will pay for it.

Gannicus

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

If you raise rent allowance then LL's will just raise rents knowing that the SW will pay for it.

Thats exactly my reasoning behind why rent went mad during the boom and even now. LL's are guaranteed a minimum level of rent so why would they drop the rent below what they know they can get.

noodler

Daith wrote: »

Unless you fix the supply first nothing else matters.

I would say having proper 1 bed/single person apartments/studios would help alot.

Alot more 1-beds are needed.

Not studios though. Sleeping where you eat is really poor and not something we should be aspiring to when we build new properties.

1,000 euro for a one-bed with a seperate living area you'd need to be earning around 43/44k gross for this to be 1/3 of your monthly income which is madness give the industrail wage is around 35k.

BoJack Horseman

Thread needs a 3rd poll option that declares that people should be responsible for their own housing.

The
- more social welfare
Or
- force landlords to lose money, options seem skewed.

Iwasfrozen

Gannicus wrote: »

If it kept rent artificially low the rent allowance payments can be lowered reducing the bill on the exchequer or at the very least frozen. This will also help lower income working people maintain a survivable level of life. When people become more financially solvent they will start looking to buy and this will trigger a greater supply. This won't all happen over night but its a start

Rent controls will freeze the market, more people will be looking to rent and landlords who are making less money will be less willing to meet the demand. You'll end up with a supply shortage. This will have a knock on effect to increase house prices as people who can't rent look for an alternative.

Supply is the problem, we need to lessen restrictions on the market and make it profitable for developers to to provide housing again. I know developers are a bad word in Ireland atm but they are an important part of any healthy economy.

Long term we need to end rent allowance, it costs the government a lot of money and pushes up prices.

Nino Brown

My family are not particularly wealthy, so when I was going to college, I went to Carlow IT because it was close to home, so transport costs were low and rent was low, so it was what they could afford.
Now that I have a job I make decent money, I'd like to live in South Dublin it's a nice place to live and would be close to work for both myself and herself, but we can't afford to live in South Dublin, so we don't.

Paying rent has never been a problem for me, because I only rent in places I can afford to rent. That is the solution to this problem, we don't need more interference from the government in the property market, be it rent controls or increasing RA.

shruikan2553

The problem with rent control is when you are paying 800 and the market rate is 1000 then there will be no incentive for the LL to keep the place in good condition, in fact annoy the tenant enough and they might leave allowing you to increase the rent.

nxbyveromdwjpg

As has been said, the poll doesn't have enough options.

I rent myself but would be absolutely 100% against rent control being introduced, or anything in fact that has the government (this one in particular) artificially manipulating the free market.

Of course I'd love my own apartment in the city centre without having to pay the market price for it. Who wouldn't?
That's not how life works though nor should it ever be.

Let the price be dictated by the market.

The price is currently increasing because the demand exceeds supply. If the government or anyone else wants to reduce the price they should tackle the problem at it's source and increase the supply.

Gannicus

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Rent controls will freeze the market, more people will be looking to rent and landlords who are making less money will be less willing to meet the demand. You'll end up with a supply shortage. This will have a knock on effect to increase house prices as people who can't rent look for an alternative.

Supply is the problem, we need to lessen restrictions on the market and make it profitable for developers to to provide housing again. I know developers are a bad word in Ireland atm but they are an important part of any healthy economy.

Long term we need to end rent allowance, it costs the government a lot of money and pushes up prices.

During the boom house prices and rental prices were on the increase. I worked in a section of the industry where I regularly came across people who owned houses numbering in the double digits, in Ireland alone. guaranteeing people a minimum amount of money inflates the market much more

Iwasfrozen

Gannicus wrote: »

During the boom house prices and rental prices were on the increase. I worked in a section of the industry where I regularly came across people who owned houses numbering in the double digits, in Ireland alone. guaranteeing people a minimum amount of money inflates the market much more

It does. Rent allowance is very dangerous and should be slowly reduced over the long term.

But short term rent controls will do nothing to solve the housing market, only restrict supply so there aren't enough houses available for everyone who wishes to rent and push up house prices as people are forced out of the renting market into buying.

I know you're good intentioned but rent controls will cause more harm than good. The only way to solve this problem is to increase the supply of houses available to rent. Lessen restrictions on the market and make it profitable for developers to to provide housing again.

Daith

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Lessen restrictions on the market and make it profitable for developers to to provide housing again.

I'd agree. Though lessen restrictions should not mean a lessen of building quality housing. There still needs to be some quality control and a minimum and what is needed for a dwelling.

I know you're not saying this but I'm fearful we will just end up with

"Aaagh more houses are needed"
"Lets allow developers to do what they want"
"That's your bedroom/shower/fridge, your toilet is across the way in Starbucks"

Karl Stein

It's not just about supply and demand of houses but supply of debt/loans too. During the Celtic pyramid profligate debt creation/bank lending, coupled with bottom rung panic, increased house prices far beyond any vestige of what a natural price might look like.

Firedance

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Seems to work in other countries.

The problem we have in this country is renting is still seen as "dead money" - a stepping stone most people have to put up with on the road to property ownership, or the choice for those who can't afford any better/the unemployed etc.

We badly need to get away from this obsession with owning our own semi-D in the country at any cost. It ruined the country once and it's starting again now because most people apparently haven't learned a thing. Worse, there is an element that actively expect "someone else" to pay for their bad decisions for them! All this talk of write-offs, handing back the house etc doesn't mean that the debt goes away.. it just gets transferred to other customers of that bank, and if that doesn't cover it they put in a call to their friendly TD or Finance Minister...

By all means, if you can affordably AND sustainably (with realistic stress tests) cover the costs of a mortgage then go for it.. but if not then you should just rent like much of the rest of the world, and we need to get rid of the stigma I referred to above around doing so.

We need to have a proper system for deposits, an effective means of resolving any complaints from either side quickly, and to a place where long-term rentals aren't just 2-3 years, but 20-30 with people being able to make the place a home (as opposed to the nonsense some landlords pull over even hanging a painting!)

But this being Ireland, and with so many of our TDs and "leaders" having property portfolios, I expect before too long the phrase "get on the property ladder" will be back in full swing - with all the negative effects we've already seen!

Just on this Kaiser, my mortgage on a 1 bed apt, is much less than the going rent in the area. If i hadn't bought when I did I'm actually not sure where I could afford to live, possibly a house share which at my age is an horrendous option! Renting is not just dead money, its often more money.