Women's World Championships

crazy8

Live streams here(I believe)...

www.youtube.com/user/AIBABoxing

Day 2 program with local(Korea) times...
http://www.iaba.ie/site3/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/C58D1117.pdf

AIBA site seems to be down.
Draws for the four weights with Irish boxers...
http://www.iaba.ie/world-womens-elite-championships-draw/

No point looking on RTE for news.
Some other news here re the squad...
http://www.womenboxing.com/NEWS2014/news111314amateur-taylor-irish-team.htm#.VGlbsPmUeE4
IABA site has updates too.

lolie

TG4 are showing live coverage of the semi finals and finals.
Also a highlights programme in the evening.

Sunday, November 23
Live coverage of the Semi-Finals on TG4
5am to 7.35am
10am to 12.35pm
Highlights on TG4 at 6.10pm.
Monday 24 November 2014
Live coverage of the Finals on TG4
5am to 9:25am
Highlights on TG4 at 6.25pm.

Tiriel

Ireland's Clare Grace has won her opening welterweight bout at the AIBA World Women's Boxing Championships in South Korea.

http://www.rte.ie/sport/boxing/2014/1117/660130-grace-makes-winning-start/

walshb

Katie due in the ring in a few minutes I believe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4JkIa0i1VY

Forget that AIBA site. It's useless. Best to follow AIBA on twitter

http://www.scribd.com/doc/246876130/Day-three-schedule

Katie in the ring juts after 1100 hrs today Irish time I think.

Eidt: Taylor in the ring right now.

twowheelsonly

Close enough in the first, won the second clearly and won the third but a bit closer IMO.

walshb

Nice win for Katie. Many more 60 Kg fights on. Sofya Ochigava fights after the next one.

Tiriel

pac_man wrote: »

Taylor and Ochigava on the same side of the draw. They will meet in the quarter finals if they continue to win.

She was a pain the the face the last time around with her smart comments.

walshb

Cork_girl wrote: »

She was a pain the the face the last time around with her smart comments.

I think it will be there 4th or 5th meeting next time. Maybe more. Katie I think has only lost once to her. Always a very tight and tactical affair. Katie's feet/speed and general better work rate usually gets her the nod. I think this type of scoring system will favor Katie better than the computer system.

cack_handed

Fair start for Taylor but as great as is my admiration for this remarkable athlete, I cant help feeling slightly concerned on this occasion. The lack of seeding is perplexing but as we know with the aiba, anything goes, they make it up as they go along.

So it seems that she'll have to win her next fight, then likely Ochigava, then likely Queen Underwood and that's just to make the final. Of course it's the worlds so it should be a steep task, but bear in mind that she basically sleepwalked her way into the final in 2012, it just goes to show how more demanding its getting to stay at the top. I'm open to correction but I don't think Underwood has been beaten for some time, not in 2014 anyway, Katie can beat her but we still remember the 2010 semi-final and I think that'll be another dogfight if it comes to pass.

And god knows what lurks in the bottom half of the draw...but i dont think that need concern us or them for a while...Here's hoping and praying but it will be the hardest earned title of them all

cack_handed

Clare Grace withdrawn through injury which is a shame, long way to go to get done by a freak accident

Also see Queen Underwood out in first round, beaten by katie's old friend Eliseeva

walshb

"Katie Taylor progressed to the quarter-finals of the AIBA World Women’s Elite Championships on a unanimous decision over Finland’s Mira Potkonen in Jeju, South Korea this morning."

But Belfast bantamweight Michaela Walsh bowed to Azerbaijani southpaw Anna Alimardanova.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/katie-taylor-through-to-quarterfinals-of-world-championship-30759471.html

walshb

Katie is on 5th on tomorrow's afternoon session. Local start time in Deju is 1400 hrs, so expect Katie in the ring just before 1500 hrs; that is 0700 hrs here.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/247262487/AIBA-Women-s-World-Boxing-Championships-Friday-Schedule.

lolie

Jeju is 9 hours ahead of us so Katie should be in the ring about 6 o clock in ring A.
Was a tough fight with Potkonen earlier so hopefuly it didn't take to much out of her.

lolie

Katie receives walkover into the semi finals.
http://www.iaba.ie/taylor-receives-walkover-world-sfinal/

walshb

lolie wrote: »

Jeju is 9 hours ahead of us so Katie should be in the ring about 6 o clock in ring A.
Was a tough fight with Potkonen earlier so hopefuly it didn't take to much out of her.

Correct. I was putting in Deju, China. Yes, 9 hrs ahead is Jeju, not 8 hrs, Deju!

walshb

lolie wrote: »

Katie receives walkover into the semi finals.
http://www.iaba.ie/taylor-receives-walkover-world-sfinal/

I would think this is genuine. Sofya is hardly pulling out due to not thinking she can win. She always gave Katie very tough and close fights.

Marion Morrison

are breast protectors still used in women's boxing ? If not they should be.

walshb

Marion Morrison wrote: »

are breast protectors still used in women's boxing ? If not they should be.

I can't find any reference to them in the AIBAs technical rules file:

http://www.aiba.org/documents/common/AIBA%20Technical%20Rules%20-%20August%2031,%202014.pdf

Tweeted the AIBA to find out.

lolie

walshb wrote: »

I would think this is genuine. Sofya is hardly pulling out due to not thinking she can win. She always gave Katie very tough and close fights.

Seems a genuine knee injury.
Ochigava would have been a serious test for Katie, can't say im to disappointed for her though after her antics in London 2012.

cack_handed

lolie wrote: »

Seems a genuine knee injury.
Ochigava would have been a serious test for Katie, can't say im to disappointed for her though after her antics in London 2012.

Bit disappointing, would have preferred her to face the best on the way to the title. But so it goes, that's top level sport. Better than it being the other way round!

I think there's a healthy respect between them despite how ochigava behaved after the olympic final. I guess she did go on a bit but she was entitled to her view, as wrong headed as we figure it might have been

walshb

cack_handed wrote: »

Bit disappointing, would have preferred her to face the best on the way to the title. But so it goes, that's top level sport. Better than it being the other way round!

I think there's a healthy respect between them despite how ochigava behaved after the olympic final. I guess she did go on a bit but she was entitled to her view, as wrong headed as we figure it might have been

She is facing the best, on her way to a 5th title.

cack_handed

walshb wrote: »

She is facing the best, on her way to a 5th title.

Oh no arguments there...barring mishap, it's impossible not to see it happening now, she has too much self-belief and dedication to be derailed.

lolie

cack_handed wrote: »

Bit disappointing, would have preferred her to face the best on the way to the title. But so it goes, that's top level sport. Better than it being the other way round!

I think there's a healthy respect between them despite how ochigava behaved after the olympic final. I guess she did go on a bit but she was entitled to her view, as wrong headed as we figure it might have been

Don't get me wrong i'd love to have seen her beat Ochigava in the ring but if any deserves a bit of luck it's Katy.

walshb wrote: »

She is facing the best, on her way to a 5th title.

She is the best

Shes in ring about 6 am tomorrow , TG4 live from 5am.

walshb

61 mins in the video you can watch Katie's semi final @ 60 kgs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABa1dDI8NiA

cack_handed

Seems hard to find much info about her final opponent apart from fact she once boxed for Ukraine. Seemed fairly decent in disposing of Mossely in other semi-final. Hardly good enough to worry Taylor but dont really like unknown quantities

walshb

cack_handed wrote: »

Seems hard to find much info about her final opponent apart from fact she once boxed for Ukraine. Seemed fairly decent in disposing of Mossely in other semi-final. Hardly good enough to worry Taylor but dont really like unknown quantities

She's tall and very neat. Southpaw too. The Chinese girl that Katie beat was pretty handy. Very fast. Just not aggressive enough. The new scoring system isn't all that favorable to the counter punchers. You have to go and earn the win.

walshb

Best of luck tomorrow to Ireland's greatest ever athlete.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/247931743/AIBA-Women-s-World-Boxing-Championships-Finals-Schedule

cack_handed

walshb wrote: »

She's tall and very neat. Southpaw too. The Chinese girl that Katie beat was pretty handy. Very fast. Just not aggressive enough. The new scoring system isn't all that favorable to the counter punchers. You have to go and earn the win.

I thought she was a little bit elusive too, the french girl didn't land very many clean punches. But katie, we know, has never had too much trouble with southpaws so no anxiety on that front

Just wish AIBA would update the athletes biographies from 2012 but I wouldn't hang my entire xmas on it!

lolie

Think she'll do the biz but expecting a close fight.
One judge had Junhua 29-28 up after 3 rounds despite Katie looking the better boxer so just goes to show close rounds can go either way with the judges.

jank

Didn't see the fight but she did it.
5 in a row. Outstanding. The greatest Irish sports person ever? Up there anyway.

walshb

jank wrote: »

Didn't see the fight but she did it.
5 in a row. Outstanding. The greatest Irish sports person ever? Up there anyway.

The greatest, and IMO it's clear! I also think that Taylor has improved slightly since London. Bit surprised.

What's with the hand raising when Katie believes she has scored a point? I am not sure I like that. She seems to do it quite a bit. Could antagonize the judges, not alert them to a score.

washman3

Our greatest ever without any doubt. Don't even think there's a close second.
Hope she can top it off with another Olympic gold and then retire.

Tiriel

Delighted for her - a great result.

bren2001

5th world title, delighted for Katie, absolutely great achievement. Wasnt up for the fight, only saw her opening round this time. But, greatest Irish sports person of all time? Not for me, while she has to be in the discussion, she is not it.

walshb

bren2001 wrote: »

5th world title, delighted for Katie, absolutely great achievement. Wasnt up for the fight, only saw her opening round this time. But, greatest Irish sports person of all time? Not for me, while she has to be in the discussion, she is not it.

Not for many people, and for many people. Her records and achievements are unmatched. Her level of dominance and win-loss ratio are off the charts. I cannot think of any Irish sports star that comes close to her in terms of success and global domination. A deserved choice for me.

ahnowbrowncow

walshb wrote: »

Not for many people, and for many people. Her records and achievements are unmatched. Her level of dominance and win-loss ratio are off the charts. I cannot think of any Irish sports star that comes close to her in terms of success and global domination. A deserved choice for me.

Definitely not for me, it's a sport with so little competition. Her achievements are fantastic but it's not comparable with other sports.

walshb

ahnowbrowncow wrote: »

Definitely not for me, it's a sport with so little competition..

With all due respect this line is nonsense/untrue. The competition is there, and it is very good and very deep. It's global. 5 consecutive world titles and the Gold in London. Only when she retires will many realize how brilliant she was.

Hangballlouie

ahnowbrowncow wrote: »

Definitely not for me, it's a sport with so little competition. Her achievements are fantastic but it's not comparable with other sports.

Who is better? Genuine question as it is interesting to see people's opinions.

bren2001

walshb wrote: »

Not for many people, and for many people. Her records and achievements are unmatched. Her level of dominance and win-loss ratio are off the charts. I cannot think of any Irish sports star that comes close to her in terms of success and global domination. A deserved choice for me.

Her level of win-loss ratio and overall dominance is, of course, extremely impressive. She is by far the best female Irish boxer of all time and I cannot see anybody matching her in my life time.

However, she dominates a minority sport where the field she competes against is extremely small compared to the mens equivalent field and other large sports. Does this dilute her achievements? For me, yes. The same way I would never say an Irish hurler or GAA player is Irelands greatest sports person.

Looking at other Irish greats, her achievements, as impressive as they are, are matched in sports with a much bigger talent pool. For example, Joey Dunlop: 5 Formula One TT World Championships, 3 hat-tricks at the Isle of Man TT where he won a record 26 races as well as 1 world championship. Again, a minority sport but an equally impressive record. Sonia O'Sullivan: 5000m World Champion, Olympic Silver, 3 European Golds, 2 World Cross-Country Golds and a World Cup gold. Not a 5 time World Champion but won in a much bigger field. Rory McIlroy: 4 time major champion aged 25.

That is my reasoning for Katie not being Irelands greatest ever sports person. She certainly deserves to be part of the discussion, but it is not means clear. Arguments can be made for and against her.

walshb

bren2001 wrote: »

Her level of win-loss ratio and overall dominance is, of course, extremely impressive. She is by far the best female Irish boxer of all time and I cannot see anybody matching her in my life time.

However, she dominates a minority sport where the field she competes against is extremely small compared to the mens equivalent field and other large sports. Does this dilute her achievements? For me, yes. The same way I would never say an Irish hurler or GAA player is Irelands greatest sports person.

Looking at other Irish greats, her achievements, as impressive as they are, are matched in sports with a much bigger talent pool. For example, Joey Dunlop: 5 Formula One TT World Championships, 3 hat-tricks at the Isle of Man TT where he won a record 26 races as well as 1 world championship. Again, a minority sport but an equally impressive record. Sonia O'Sullivan: 5000m World Champion, Olympic Silver, 3 European Golds, 2 World Cross-Country Golds and a World Cup gold. Not a 5 time World Champion but won in a much bigger field.

That is my reasoning for Katie not being Irelands greatest ever sports person. She certainly deserves to be part of the discussion, but it is not means clear. Arguments can be made for and against her.

I never said that arguments cannot be made against her. Sonia is right up there. Your assertion that Katie's sport is somehow not as competitive or deep is off the mark. It is wrong. Using the GAA, a national game as some comparison is also wrong. That is a national game, and a team sport. Katie is in a global game on an individual basis.

How is Sonia beating a much bigger field? It's one discipline, 5000 metres. Katie is taking on all comers across the globe at 60 kgs the past 10 years, and had won the world title 5 times as well as Gold in London. As great as Sonia is, and I admire her greatly, she is not in Katie's league as regards success and global domination.

Interesting discussion all the same. Just for me I can't see anyone that really challenges Katie as regards out best ever sports star.

cack_handed

What she has done is simply off the charts, nearly 10 years of unrivalled domination and still no signs of standards slipping. It's easy and lazy to say there's no competition out there, but the truth is her superiority is so pronounced her opponents are virtually beaten before they even step into the ring. The confidence and belief she has in herself is phenomenal, thanks in part to her faith as well as to her technique and training and dedication to the ascetic lifestyle

Even more astonishing is where she has come from, the journey from, well, nowhere really.....no existing tradition or appetite for women's boxing here. She had to be a pioneer, overcoming extreme prejudice and institutionalised apathy just even to get her name on the card here, let alone have to ambition to forge a career out of it. And let's not forget that the sweeping spread of the sport globally, as well as its emergence as an Olympic event, is due in no small part to her efforts. Truly a unique and inspirational athlete, a one-off.

One sour note i feel necessary to add: RTE deserves nothing but opprobrium. It exists, nominally anyway, to cover top stories, national and international, but didn't deem this historical event worthy of proper coverage, instead letting TG4 take up the slack. Of course they acted as if they owned her when it came to the Olympics!

bren2001

walshb wrote: »

I never said that arguments cannot be made against her. Sonia is right up there. Your assertion that Katie's sport is somehow not as competitive or deep is off the mark. It is wrong. Using the GAA, a national game as some comparison is also wrong. That is a national game, and a team sport. Katie is in a global game on an individual basis.

How is Sonia beating a much bigger field? It's one discipline, 5000 metres. Katie is taking on all comers across the globe at 60 kgs the past 10 years, and had won the world title 5 times as well as Gold in London. As great as Sonia is, and I admire her greatly, she is not in Katie's league as regards success and global domination.

Interesting discussion all the same. Just for me I can't see anyone that really challenges Katie as regards out best ever sports star.

No, you didnt say arguments couldnt be made against her. It was more in response to other people stating it was clear cut.

I completely disagree in saying that womens boxing talent pool is as deep as other sports. I cannot pull up figures to back up my statement but if you look at the biggest sports in the world by participating numbers, womens boxing would not rank highly on any list. Soccer, tennis, golf, rugby etc. have far more people playing. It is from that simple assumption that I am saying the talent pool is not as deep purely from the idea that less people partake in the sport. Thus, it is easier to rise to the top as there is less quality opposition.

I took the GAA as an example because while it being a massive sport here (one I play), it's impact is relatively non-existent in other countries. Hence, a GAA player would never rank at the top of my list due to the similar small talent pool. I certainly think you are wide of the mark saying that you cannot compare the two because one is a team sport and the other individual. To consider Irelands greatest sports person, you must consider all sports and achievements.

How is Sonia beating a bigger field? I think there are more female runners in the world. I cannot back that up but I dont think you can say there are the same number of female athletic runners as women boxers....?

For me, I dont necessarily use titles as a measure of how great someone was. For me, the greatest Irish sports person is somewhere between Roy Keane, Brian O'Driscoll, Sean Kelly or Sonia.

walshb

For me I tend to dismiss team sports. I don't see a relevant comparison to an individual.

Of course some sports have a higher participation, but for me that is not something that ranks high in consideration. Some sports are a lot more accessible and lot easier to take up and master. Just because there are more female runners, doesn't mean that the competition pool is more impressive or dominating. There are many disciplines in track and road racing.

Men's boxing, for example, has a deeper pool than women's, and clearly so. I still think we have no men that compare to Katie even when taking this into consideration. Paddy Barnes is close, but still off the mark when compared with Katie.

Taylor has been at the top for 10 years. The very top. Number 1 all the time. That trumps any criticism that she is competing in a "lesser sport" than others.

So, taking the pros and cons, which can be applied across all the sports, Taylor stands on top.

bren2001

walshb wrote: »

For me I tend to dismiss team sports. I don't see a relevant comparison. Of course some sports have a higher participation, but for me that is not something that ranks high in consideration. Some sports are a lot more accessible and lot easier to take up and master.

Men's boxing, for example, has a deeper pool than women's and clearly so. I still think we have no men that compare to Katie.

Taylor has been at the top for 10 years. The very top. Number 1 all the time. That trumps any criticism that she is competing in a "lesser sport" than others.

So, taking the pros and cons, which can be applied across all the sports, Taylor stand on top.

We don't have any male boxers who can compete with Katie and dismissing all team sports then changes the discussion completely. I would still argue she would not be no.1 with those changes.

Rory McIlroy, 4 time Major champion. First European to win 3 majors by the age of 25 and joins the list with Tiger Woods and Jack Nicklaus. He has been at the top of golf for the past 5 years. Is he the best? Not yet but has the potential to trump Katie.

Sean Kelly, listing off his cycling record would take up far too much space. But he is widely considered in the cycling community as one of the greatest cyclists. I think I am right in saying him and Dan Martin are the only Irish riders to win Leige Bastogne Leige, what cyclists consider the toughest race. Also won Vuelta de Espana and placed very highly in the Tour de France, winning several stages. He is by far (for me) the greatest Irish individual sportsman.

Joey Dunlop also deserves consideration, top of his field for 20+ years.

walshb

bren2001 wrote: »

We don't have any male boxers who can compete with Katie and dismissing all team sports then changes the discussion completely. I would still argue she would not be no.1 with those changes.

Rory McIlroy, 4 time Major champion. First European to win 3 majors by the age of 25 and joins the list with Tiger Woods and Jack Nicklaus. He has been at the top of golf for the past 5 years. Is he the best? Not yet but has the potential to trump Katie.

Sean Kelly, listing off his cycling record would take up far too much space. But he is widely considered in the cycling community as one of the greatest cyclists. I think I am right in saying him and Dan Martin are the only Irish riders to win Leige Bastogne Leige, what cyclists consider the toughest race. Also won Vuelta de Espana and placed very highly in the Tour de France, winning several stages. He is by far (for me) the greatest Irish individual sportsman.

Joey Dunlop also deserves consideration, top of his field for 20+ years.

Kelly and Roche deserve a nod for the GOAT as regards Irish sportsmen.

ahnowbrowncow

walshb wrote: »

I never said that arguments cannot be made against her. Sonia is right up there. Your assertion that Katie's sport is somehow not as competitive or deep is off the mark. It is wrong. Using the GAA, a national game as some comparison is also wrong. That is a national game, and a team sport. Katie is in a global game on an individual basis.

How is Sonia beating a much bigger field? It's one discipline, 5000 metres. Katie is taking on all comers across the globe at 60 kgs the past 10 years, and had won the world title 5 times as well as Gold in London. As great as Sonia is, and I admire her greatly, she is not in Katie's league as regards success and global domination.

Interesting discussion all the same. Just for me I can't see anyone that really challenges Katie as regards out best ever sports star.

You're disillusioned, women's boxing isn't anywhere near as competitive as athletics.

Hangballlouie

walshb wrote: »

Kelly and Roche deserve a nod for the GOAT as regards Irish sportsmen.

I agree with you regarding Katie but if you are including these two then you might as well include Michelle Smith.

walshb

hangballlouie wrote: »

I agree with you regarding Katie but if you are including these two then you might as well include Michelle Smith.

Well, I don't agree there. Smith has a doping violation against her. Kelly does not as far as I know. Unfair to lump him with her. Roche had a lot of suspicion surrounding him, but I don't believe that he ever was sanctioned or found to have used PEDs?

walshb

ahnowbrowncow wrote: »

You're disillusioned, women's boxing isn't anywhere near as competitive as athletics.

Where did I say that it was? Athletics encompasses about 25 events (12-15 race distances) at the Olympics; more if you include road and cross county outside of the Olympics.

cack_handed

Kelly has at least one doping positive to his name.....although i seem to remember it may not even have been his own piss that was given
Roche...why even bother arguing anymore?

Hangballlouie

walshb wrote: »

Well, I don't agree there. Smith has a doping violation against her. Kelly does snot as far as I know. Unfair to lump him with her. Roche had a lot of suspicion surrounding him, but I don't believe that he ever was sanctioned or found to have used PEDs?

I believe there is enough information out there to suggest they both doped. It is a known fact that Roche doped heavy and he was implicated in an Italian investigation. Regarding Kelly, both Paul Kimmage and David Walsh have said that Kelly was a doper. These two were both friends of Sean's in the 80s and the information they had ruined their relationships with him.