This book is mandatory reading for all Irish people...

jetsonx

If you're stuck for gift ideas this Christmas, I can wholeheartedly recommended this book.

Demonstrates that behind closed doors - Fianna Fail are a really just a bunch of thugs in suits. Excellent read.

http://www.gillmacmillanbooks.ie/current-affairs/current-affairs/tom-gilmartin

Quazzie

jetsonx wrote: »

If you're stuck for gift ideas this Christmas, I can wholeheartedly recommended this book.

Demonstrates that behind closed doors - Fianna Fail are a really just a bunch of thugs in suits. Excellent read.

http://www.gillmacmillanbooks.ie/current-affairs/current-affairs/tom-gilmartin

I got bored reading the title.

Have ya anything with a bit more sex in it? Or vampires, they seem to be all the rage these days.

Straylight

If I gave that as a present to anyone I know I'd fully expect to have to dodge it as it was being flung towards my head.

WoollyRedHat

Quazzie wrote: »

I got bored reading the title.

Have ya anything with a bit more sex in it? Or vampires, they seem to be all the rage these days.

Bertie Ahern getting caught getting head from a vampire.

Sheep Lover

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

Bertie Ahern getting caught getting head from a vampire.

The vampire would die from starvation so, Bertie was always known for having a small Wilbert.

Birneybau

I'll stick with my Beano annual thanks.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

OP, you might want to buy a dictionary before this book. It is not mandatory. It may be highly recommended but it is definitely not mandatory. I, for one, couldn't be bothered adding it to my personal library, so report me to the appropriate authority for enforcement.

Pete_Cavan

I took one look at the cover and decided it wasnt for me, it is a policy that has served me well throughout my life.

Tail Docker

Apathy. It'll get someone else ahead every time. There's two types of suits, Tracksuits and business suits. Generally, both are favored by scumbags. It's the people in jeans that get preyed on by both.

In Lonesome Dove

Was Tom Kilmartin's son on the late late show some time back?

I vaguely remember an interview on the late late show some months ago, in which I was almost in tears due to the treatment his father received.

conorh91

Sheep Lover wrote: »

Bertie was always known for having a small Wilbert.

Yes, that's what he's notorious for.

Say the words "Bertie Ahern" in any household, and everyone immediately starts giggling, imagining a middle-aged politician with a small penis.

That's the thing Bertie Ahern is 'known for'. No doubt about it.

AllGunsBlazing

That cover photo does him no favours. Looks like a Mafia don.

Packrat

Thank you, just purchased this on Kindle a moment ago on your recommendation.

Always wanted to hear his story.

It'll make for excellent reading I hope, as did 'Full On' - Ivan Yates book.

Side note, I received my kindle as a 40th present last year, and while initially sceptical, it's allowed me to rediscover reading books, (about 25 this year) something I haven't really done much of in the last 20 years. Only gripe now is that some great Irish history books are not on Amazon.

Red Kev

conorh91 wrote: »

Yes, that's what he's notorious for.

Say the words "Bertie Ahern" in any household, and everyone immediately starts giggling, imagining a middle-aged politician with a small penis.

That's the thing Bertie Ahern is 'known for'. No doubt about it.

Yes, he's known for being a little prick alright.

Filmer Paradise

It's a great book in some ways.

Got it myself when it first came out.

Yeah. The people who ran this country stank to high Heaven.

I knew this already. What I didn't know was how obvious they were as total Gougers. Really bad stuff & it showed how the whole system was rotten from the top down.

Take a bow Mr Charles J Haughey, for bringing in such a culture into Irish life.

Even his own brother was shocked at Mr Gilmartin's treatment by his henchmen.

Yes. Every Irish person who gives a jot should read this book.

Some of it is heavy going, especially the twists & turns of the tribunal & all that.

Still. it's a compelling read.

How did FF sink so low a mere 10-20 years since Lemass was in power?

Filmer Paradise

Tail Docker wrote: »

Apathy. It'll get someone else ahead every time. There's two types of suits, Tracksuits and business suits. Generally, both are favored by scumbags. It's the people in jeans that get preyed on by both.

Post of the friggin year.

I wear Levis BTW.

Tail Docker

Filmer Paradise wrote: »

It's a great book in some ways.

Got it myself when it first came out.

Yeah. The people who ran this country stank to high Heaven.

I knew this already. What I didn't know was how obvious they were as total Gougers. Really bad stuff & it showed how the whole system was rotten from the top down.

Take a bow Mr Charles J Haughey, for bringing in such a culture into Irish life.

Even his own brother was shocked at Mr Gilmartin's treatment by his henchmen.

Yes. Every Irish person who gives a jot should read this book.

Some of it is heavy going, especially the twists & turns of the tribunal & all that.

Still. it's a compelling read.

How did FF sink so low a mere 10-20 years since Lemass was in power?

Good post, apart from one word - "..ran.."

Filmer Paradise

Tail Docker wrote: »

Good post, apart from one word - "..ran.."

Ran it into the ground?

Tail Docker

Filmer Paradise wrote: »

Ran it into the ground?

No, you used past tense. The present isn't much different.

conorh91

I can't decide whether this is a really really good book, or the whole thread is just an elaborate shilling exercise..?

Filmer Paradise

Tail Docker wrote: »

No, you used past tense. The present isn't much different.

Meet the new Boss. He's the same as the old Boss.

Pete Townshend 1971

Tail Docker

conorh91 wrote: »

I can't decide whether this is a really really good book, or the whole thread is just an elaborate shilling exercise..?

Nah, it's a really sad book. It's the tale of how some ****ers murdered Ireland. We're all paying for the wake.

BlaasForRafa

When I saw the thread title I thought it was going to be about....

Peig :eek:

Filmer Paradise

conorh91 wrote: »

I can't decide whether this is a really really good book, or the whole thread is just an elaborate shilling exercise..?

Nope. This book should be on the curriculum of every secondary school in this country.

Never let this happen again.

Into The Blue

Filmer Paradise wrote: »

Nope. This book should be on the curriculum of every secondary school in this country.

Never let this happen again.

Don't kid yourself, very little has changed

the dark phantom

Tail Docker wrote: »

Apathy. It'll get someone else ahead every time. There's two types of suits, Tracksuits and business suits. Generally, both are favored by scumbags. It's the people in jeans that get preyed on by both.

I think I'll stop wearing jeans.

Guy:Incognito

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

Bertie Ahern getting caught getting head from a vampire.

All fun and games till they draw blood.

costadeldole

Charles Haughey and Bertie Ahern were villains. Its a moot point.
One doesn't need to read a book confirming what we all know. Cronyism, that is the way it works in Ireland, whether one likes it or not. They weren't the first, and they wont be the last; reading books on it wont change anything.
If people weren't apathetic sheep in our country, they would punish these villains at the ballot box. But sheep are easily bought, and so vote accordingly. They read the newspapers, believe the propaganda, and vote as they are told. Its a revolving door FF/FG, and do you really think there is a difference between them? Same government, the only thing that changes is the cycle of boom to bust economy.
Corruption in Ireland has existed from the beginning, and it will never end. These scandals and tribunals are quickly forgotten by the sheep. They just see books and tribunals on these things as a waste of money, as they change nothing.
Charles Haughey, Bertie Ahern, Seán FitzPatrick, etc, were never jailed; and will never be jailed. The elite in our country are above the law, and like it or not that is the way it is.
If every Irish citizen were given a free copy of this book, and read it; what would it change? They would still vote FF at the next general election.

Filmer Paradise

Into The Blue wrote: »

Don't kid yourself, very little has changed

costadeldole wrote: »

Charles Haughey and Bertie Ahern were villains. Its a moot point.
One doesn't need to read a book confirming what we all know. Cronyism, that is the way it works in Ireland, whether one likes it or not. They weren't the first, and they wont be the last; reading books on it wont change anything.
If people weren't apathetic sheep in our country, they would punish these villains at the ballot box. But sheep are easily bought, and so vote accordingly. They read the newspapers, believe the propaganda, and vote as they are told. Its a revolving door FF/FG, and do you really think there is a difference between them? Same government, the only thing that changes is the cycle of boom to bust economy.
Corruption in Ireland has existed from the beginning, and it will never end. These scandals and tribunals are quickly forgotten by the sheep. They just see books and tribunals on these things as a waste of money, as they change nothing.
Charles Haughey, Bertie Ahern, Seán FitzPatrick, etc, were never jailed; and will never be jailed. The elite in our country are above the law, and like it or not that is the way it is.
If every Irish citizen were given a free copy of this book, and read it; what would it change? They would still vote FF at the next general election.

Well, many years ago I was an Idealist.

Now I'm in my middle age & have the corners knocked off me.

I'm now a Realist. I'm just hoping that the Irish public are a bit more educated & informed now.

Books like this can help to show the way things were & not to go down the same route again.

hfallada

You cant see say FF is completely corrupt considering they basically cleared out all the shady characters in it. I cant name any in it, that I believe in 30 years will have allegations of corruption. The political system years ago allowed corruption to flourish. There is too many checks and balances now to stop any "shady transactions". There was no proven cases of corruption for the few years of FF in power.

But if people can forget a certain parties links with a terrorist organisation at the moment. I think they will allow FF to come to power in a few years.

braddun

One major case of corruption in Ireland happened in County Wicklow; dubbed the Wicklow Gold Inquiry, it involved the distribution of mining licenses in 1935. The Minister for Industry and Commerce at the time, Sean Lemass, granted a mining licence to the politicians Michael Comyn and Bob Briscoe. These licenses covered an area of 2,982 acres in Wicklow. They both leased the land to a British mining company in exchange for £12,000 and royalties on any gold found. An inquiry was launched due to Patrick McGilligan of Cumann na nGaedheal accusing Lemass of favouring members of the Fianna Fáil political party. The inquiry cleared Lemass of any wrongdoing due to the fact that he did not benefit financiallyAnother tribunal was set up in 1943 after allegations that advance information was made available selectively when the Great Southern Railway and the Dublin United Transport Company were merged and nationalized to form Córas Iompair Éireann, allowing shareholders to make massive profits. It was revealed in the tribunal that several people were tipped off of this plan before it went public, in what is now known as insider trading. The organisations and people who were aware of the upcoming merger included the Bank of Ireland, the Representative Body of the Church of Ireland and the Archbishop of Dublin, John Charles McQuaidBefore the 1960s it was relatively easy to get planning permission, but that changed in the year 1963 when the highly restrictive Planning Act was passed. This placed exceptional powers in the hands of newly appointed officials. Since this act was introduced it has been blamed as the principal factor of the upswing of Irish political corruption in the years afterBefore the 1960s it was relatively easy to get planning permission, but that changed in the year 1963 when the highly restrictive Planning Act was passed. This placed exceptional powers in the hands of newly appointed officials. Since this act was introduced it has been blamed as the principal factor of the upswing of Irish political corruption in the years after.[6] This was proved in the following few years when Charlie Haughey, the Minister for Finance and Liam Lawlor, a TD from the Lucan area, both received planning permission for huge housing estates on land in which they owned.[8]Report of 1974 attempted to bring an effective end to land speculation by nationalizing all building land, putting a capital gains tax on any profit made from the disposal of land and placing a high stamp duty rate on the transfer of any land suitable for building but Fianna Fáil, the government at the time, refused to accept any of these, or the 9 other, recommendations that were made in the report, as it was against their best interests.[9]
Another corruption tribunal was brought to court in 1975, this one involving a Labour TD from Co. Meath, James Tully. Mr. Tully, who was the minister for local government at the time, was the subject of much suspicion regarding several planning decisions made in his name. These decisions were given the name “Tully permissions” and went completely against rules regarding proper planning. The year before, Tully was also accused of “Tullymandering”, a take off of gerrymandering, which involves rearranging electoral boundaries to benefit a particular political party. This tribunal was brought into being to investigate these matters and also his apparent improper relationship with a certain building contractor, Bobby Farrelly, and when the trial was over, he was cleared of any wrongdoingIn 1991 a Tribunal of Inquiry into the Beef Industry was established to investigate tax evasion, malpractice and regulatory weaknesses in Ireland’s beef industry. Part of the tribunal also involved looking into the 'unhealthy' relationship between Taoiseach Charlie Haughey and leading beef magnate, Larry Goodman. The government were accused, by Labour TD Pat Rabbitte, of providing export insurance to him in respect of his sale of beef in Iraq and in effect, giving him favourable treatment. When the results of the tribunal were published it uncovered many serious malpractices in the industry. The report also cleared the taoiseach of any wrongdoing and stated; “There is no evidence to suggest that either the Taoiseach at the time or the Minister for Industry and Commerce at the time was personally close to Mr. Goodman or that Mr. Goodman had any political associations with either of them or the party that they represented.”[11]
The McCracken Tribunal of 1997 investigated reports of secret payments by Ben Dunne to former Taoiseach, Charles Haughey and former cabinet minister Michael Lowry. This tribunal found that Haughey had given untrue evidence under oath and that Lowry was knowingly assisted by Dunne in evading tax. When this was made public, the tribunal attempted to initiate criminal proceedings against both men, but failed when it was judged that Haughey would not get a fair trial due to prejudicial comments by Tánaiste Mary Harney.[12]
The Moriarty Tribunal of 1997 was a follow up from the McCracken Tribunal which was an inquiry into the financial affairs of politicians Charles Haughey and Michael Lowry. The tribunal lasted 14 years and was finally concluded in March 2011, five years after Charles Haughey had died. In the findings it was reported that;
Mr. Haughey stole a "sizeable proportion" from the Brian Lenihan medical fund and took steps to conceal his actions.[13]
Charles Haughey accepted cash in return for favours throughout his political career.[14]
Confirmation of facts regarding payments by Dunne to Haughey and Lowry.

Tail Docker

Perhaps more worrying than past corruption, whereby Politicians were thought to have lined their own pockets through the use of corruption, is the present situation. Past "Players" may have assisted each other in acquiring money and power but by and large, they left the ordinary people alone. They played among themselves and Big Business.

More worrying is when "people" dip deeply into the pockets of every man, woman and child, in a ruthless fashion, to promote their own, protect their own and serve their own. That's a harsher/more ruthless form altogether.

Consider current levels of Taxation/USC/Water Charges/Cuts/Asset sell-offs, Debt write-offs and suspected cronyism currently imposed....and remember, these are to bail out the Elites and settle their debts and promote their interests.

FF may have had their moments, but they have no monopoly on ruthlessness. Given the choice of Gangster, I prefer the ones who play among themselves.

diomed

This book should be mandatory reading
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Manias-Panics-Crashes-Financial-Investment/dp/0471389455

Packrat

Tail Docker wrote: »

Perhaps more worrying than past corruption, whereby Politicians were thought to have lined their own pockets through the use of corruption, is the present situation. Past "Players" may have assisted each other in acquiring money and power but by and large, they left the ordinary people alone. They played among themselves and Big Business.

More worrying is when "people" dip deeply into the pockets of every man, woman and child, in a ruthless fashion, to promote their own, protect their own and serve their own. That's a harsher/more ruthless form altogether.

Consider current levels of Taxation/USC/Water Charges/Cuts/Asset sell-offs, Debt write-offs and suspected cronyism currently imposed....and remember, these are to bail out the Elites and settle their debts and promote their interests.

FF may have had their moments, but they have no monopoly on ruthlessness. Given the choice of Gangster, I prefer the ones who play among themselves.

Mostly true, but the recent raising of taxes and cuts to services are in the long term a good thing for everyone. As a country we must trade in the black. The private bank debt which was wrongly nationalised is actually the least of our worries with regard to budgeting.
Much like buying a 10 year old Lamborgini, it's not the purchase price which is the problem, it's the running costs that will break you. Our running costs are still much more than our income, and still will be (to the tune of billions) next year when Noonans giveaway budget 2016 comes out in a likely successful attempt to buy the next general election.
Believe me, I'm no FG or Labour apologist, if you look back to what I said at budget time that's pretty clear.

On topic: you described it well above when you said that these guys murdered Ireland.
Having read the first few chapters, it appears that they were just common thieves and blackmailers from and including the top (Charlie) down. It's shocking how blatant and straightforward they were about demanding millions not to scupper the plans of a self made honest man trying to do something good for his country which had let him down so badly as a young man.
Utterly disgusting. Whatever shred of respect I had for those thieves who were FF then has evaporated, and at the time I would have voted for some of them.

SEPT 23 1989

Imagine the country we could have been without these parasites

the dark phantom

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Imagine the country we could have been without these parasites

Irish people are generally too conservation and apathetic to do anything about these things.

Sure we wouldn't want to be bold and get in trouble now would we ??

Lapin

costadeldole wrote: »

Charles Haughey and Bertie Ahern were villains. Its a moot point.
One doesn't need to read a book confirming what we all know. Cronyism, that is the way it works in Ireland, whether one likes it or not. They weren't the first, and they wont be the last; reading books on it wont change anything.
If people weren't apathetic sheep in our country, they would punish these villains at the ballot box. But sheep are easily bought, and so vote accordingly. They read the newspapers, believe the propaganda, and vote as they are told. Its a revolving door FF/FG, and do you really think there is a difference between them? Same government, the only thing that changes is the cycle of boom to bust economy.
Corruption in Ireland has existed from the beginning, and it will never end. These scandals and tribunals are quickly forgotten by the sheep. They just see books and tribunals on these things as a waste of money, as they change nothing.
Charles Haughey, Bertie Ahern, Seán FitzPatrick, etc, were never jailed; and will never be jailed. The elite in our country are above the law, and like it or not that is the way it is.
If every Irish citizen were given a free copy of this book, and read it; what would it change? They would still vote FF at the next general election.

There is so much wrong with this post, its hard to know where to begin disputing it.

Encouraging ignorance in others because you wish to remain wilfully ignorant yourself by not reading it is definitely not going to change anything.

I think that is the whole point the OP is making by suggesting it 'should be mandatory reading for all Irish people...'

You're doing exactly the same as those you criticise.

Lapin

diomed wrote: »

This book should be mandatory reading
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Manias-Panics-Crashes-Financial-Investment/dp/0471389455

This gem could be added to the list too.

http://www.amazon.com/This-Great-Little-Nation-Scandals/dp/0717129373

15 years old now. I'd love to see them write a follow up on the scandals we have lived through since.

eviltwin

That is some title for a book. Would hate to get that one doing Charades.