Should people have to pass an I.Q. test to vote?

silent gav

Pretty self explanatory. Would the country be in a better or worse place if people had to get a certain level in an I.Q. Test before they were eligible to vote?

osarusan

Only if the politicians have to pass one too.

Lau2976

silent gav wrote: »

Pretty self explanatory. Would the country be in a better or worse place if people had to get a certain level in an I.Q. Test before they were eligible to vote?

I would say the same position really. A lot of people don't read up on policies, etc and just go with the loyalty vote regardless of IQ.

SparkySpitfire

osarusan wrote: »

Only if the politicians have to pass one too.

God knows they need some sort of qualification apart from a H.Dip.

The Backwards Man

I think one question should be asked of all the electorate.

Have you ever posted a comment on the Journal.ie?

If yes, no voting card for you.

Lau2976

SparkySpitfire wrote: »

God knows they need some sort of qualification apart from a H.Dip.

Politics or relevant to their ministers position!

Molester Stallone II

"Do you agree with Sinn Fein's fiscal policies?"
Yes?.......back on the monkey island at Fota with you, no need for an IQ test

Buona Fortuna

silent gav wrote: »

Pretty self explanatory. Would the country be in a better or worse place if people had to get a certain level in an I.Q. Test before they were eligible to vote?

End up a bit like the way people get into the Seanad?:mad:

ClovenHoof

Civil Servants should be banned from voting. A government should not be allowed to vote for itself.

dodderangler

Certainly should for driving cuz there's serious amount of idiots behind the wheel nowadays

hfallada

You will generally find its only the educated middle class that vote in this country. Well its the case in Dublin city, where some of the wealthy suburbs will have massive turnouts, while no one in the inner city votes

Mr. G

No. It would not be a fair democracy then. And corruption would make it that some get higher IQs than others. It's a democracy we have. I say leave it alone tbh.

Kevin McCloud

The Backwards Man wrote: »

I think one question should be asked of all the electorate.

Have you ever posted a comment on the Journal.ie?

If yes, no voting card for you.

Or people who have more than 500 posts per year of registration.

Peregrine

No, that would be pointless.

But the idea of passing a civics test before voting might be worth discussing.

Son Of A Vidic

Molester Stallone II wrote: »

"Do you agree with Sinn Fein's fiscal policies?"
Yes?.......back on the monkey island at Fota with you, no need for an IQ test

One only needs to cast a glance at the incumbent clowns in governement. To realise that people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

The Backwards Man

The Backwards Man wrote: »

I think one question should be asked of all the electorate.

Have you ever posted a comment on the Journal.ie?

If yes, no voting card for you.

What if you use The Journal specifically for trolling? Where do we stand?

Sheldons Brain

Perhaps an IQ restriction for Boards.ie would help.

feargale

Maybe it's time for one serious response here. The only country I've ever heard of having something like this was pre-WWI Serbia which had a literacy test. No, there shouldn't be an IQ test for voters. Who sets the test? How can it be objective? Would you carry that to its logical conclusion and give, say, Einstein 100 votes? It's a throwback to the days when the franchise was limited to property owners. And it is a negation of democracy. Why should an illiterate labourer who does an honest day's work have no say in the running of his country while a shady, speculating banker has a vote? The Germans in the 1920s were considered by many to be the best educated people on the planet. How smartly did they vote? Neither knowledge nor intelligence equate to wisdom.
As a university graduate I have a vote in Seanad elections but I would abolish that privilege too. Democracy means one person, one vote, and anything else is a recipe for conflict.

tobsey

ClovenHoof wrote: »

Civil Servants should be banned from voting. A government should not be allowed to vote for itself.

Civil servants are forbidden from engaging in political activity with any party for that exact reason. Given that the government changes at least every 5 years when civil servants work for 40+ sort of goes against what you're saying too.

gypsy79

Your vote should be related to how much tax you pay. Maybe 1 vote per 10k a year with a max of 3. People on social welfare shouldnt be allowed vote, end of

dlouth15

It should be linked to paying your water charge.

gypsy79

dlouth15 wrote: »

It should be linked to paying your water charge.

That certainly would be a way to get a lot of the vermin out of the voting pool alright

UCDVet

The point of giving everyone the opportunity to vote, is that it allows each person to become their own advocate. A society that only allows intelligent people to vote would potentially not act in the best interests of everyone.

Same deal with letting rich people's votes count for more.

The only thing that I would support (at least in theory) is requiring people to answer incredibly basic questions about either the people they are voting for or about the issue they are voting on. Sadly, in practice, that wouldn't work either as half the time you can't get a straight answer saying what a politician actually intends to do (beyond fluff everyone supports) and half the information we have on the issues are wrong or misrepresented.

UCDVet

feargale wrote: »

Maybe it's time for one serious response here. The only country I've ever heard of having something like this was pre-WWI Serbia which had a literacy test. No, there shouldn't be an IQ test for voters. Who sets the test? How can it be objective? Would you carry that to its logical conclusion and give, say, Einstein 100 votes? It's a throwback to the days when the franchise was limited to property owners. And it is a negation of democracy. Why should an illiterate labourer who does an honest day's work have no say in the running of his country while a shady, speculating banker has a vote? The Germans in the 1920s were considered by many to be the best educated people on the planet. How smartly did they vote? Neither knowledge nor intelligence equate to wisdom.
As a university graduate I have a vote in Seanad elections but I would abolish that privilege too. Democracy means one person, one vote, and anything other than democracy is a recipe for conflict.

Not disagreeing - but - it would be very easy for the test to be objective. Every question on the test should have a single correct answer. That's a perfectly objective test.

UCDVet

dlouth15 wrote: »

It should be linked to paying your water charge.

Eh - I'm trying to pay, but Irish Water won't tell me if I'm a customer or not

Matt_Trakker

Absolutely yes.

Ridiculous that some pea-brained shinner Celtic-jersey-wearing scumbag who left school at 14 has the same power to influence politics as those who've completed higher education and actually know about how the world works.

Same goes for politicians.

And politicians who have cabinet roles must have at least a docterate/PhD in that field.

dlouth15

How would you weed out the geeks - shut-ins who have intelligence but don't know how to apply it?

lazybones32

IQ tests are only a measure of how well you did on that exam, not a true measure of human intelligence -which has seven different areas.

We already live in a system where those in power think they are smarter than the little people...

Don Kedick

Well you have to ask serious questions about the I.Q of people that have voted for FF or FG for the last few decades.

bnt

Where would you draw the pass/fail line? 80? 70? How would that work, politically?

A slightly more consistent cutoff could be something like "2 standard deviations below the mean", but then you'd have to explain what that means to people with IQs 2 standard deviations below the mean. :eek:

Gannicus

silent gav wrote: »

Pretty self explanatory. Would the country be in a better or worse place if people had to get a certain level in an I.Q. Test before they were eligible to vote?

I'd prefer if they had to pass one to drive.

Teyla Emmagan

Great idea. See the SF vote go through the floor.

dav3

It would do away with the FF/FG 'sure me mammy and daddy vote for them and I can't think for myself' brigade. I'd say the Healy-Raes and Michael Lowry wouldn't be too fond of your proposal OP.

WakeUp

for a thread that supposedly has to do with intelligence or lack of thereof those advocating such a thing might want to familiarise themselves with the definition of the word democracy before getting ahead of themselves. up there in those ivory towers.

damnant quod non intellegunt with regard to a modern day democracy and how it works certainly rings true with some of the comments here. how ironic.

Leopardhyena

lazybones32 wrote: »

IQ tests are only a measure of how well you did on that exam, not a true measure of human intelligence -which has seven different areas.

We already live in a system where those in power think they are smarter than the little people...

IQ tests measure how well you can reason and apply logic as well as spatial skills. Those skills apply to other areas of life, not just IQ tests.

HalloweenJack

Don't agree with this idea, per se, as it is unfair and elitist.

However, I remember at the time of the Lisbon treaty thinking that it'd be a good idea to have a quick on the spot true or false quiz about the real implications of the Lisbon treaty before they handed you your voting card. It's a surefire way to prove that you actually know what you're voting on. I was sick of all the pure lies being spread from both sides in that campaign.

Something like that would be a good idea for referendums, to stop all the scaremongering idiots getting a vote in. Imagine in the same-sex marriage vote, you have to answer questions like "homosexuality is natural - true or false?". The bigots vote would be wiped out before it even gets to the polls.

Gannicus

HalloweenJack wrote: »

Imagine in the same-sex marriage vote, you have to answer questions like "homosexuality is natural - true or false?". The bigots vote would be wiped out before it even gets to the polls.

I'm in favour of same sex marriage. In saying that I reckon the no vote will win. The older generations who think homosexuality is "wrong" will vote in their masses but the younger generation (who I find vote seldomly if at all) that will be "okay" with gay marriage won't make much of an impact to affect the result their way while the LGBT community will be there to bolster the numbers for a yes vote

Panrich

People with high intelligence tend to have less children than people with lower intelligence. Therefore the global IQ is falling:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/22/people-getting-dumber-human-intelligence-victoria-era_n_3293846.html

The quality of decisions being made democratically will also tend to decline as we move forwards as this trend continues. This is not good as we are all profoundly affected by the decisions of the electorate.

It's a valid question to ask by the OP but there will be no solution as it's too difficult to address as any potential solution would have to be elitist in some way and that's possibly worse. Having said that, I personally would rather our elected representatives were selected by groups of highly intelligent and functioning members of our society, rather than the current model where a TDs popularity and success is based on getting services for people who don't qualify as per the rules.

Teyla Emmagan

Gannicus wrote: »

I'm in favour of same sex marriage. In saying that I reckon the no vote will win. The older generations who think homosexuality is "wrong" will vote in their masses but the younger generation (who I find vote seldomly if at all) that will be "okay" with gay marriage won't make much of an impact to affect the result their way while the LGBT community will be their to bolster the numbers for a yes vote

I did one of those exit polls last time I voted (local elections) and the lady said the same sex marriage bill would definitely pass based on the indications she had seen that day. But I am in a large urban area, it could have been polling very differently elsewhere.

ThinkAboutIt

What would Sinn Feins support be if you had the pass an IQ test? 0%?

Gannicus

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

I did one of those exit polls last time I voted (local elections) and the lady said the same sex marriage bill would definitely pass based on the indications she had seen that day. But I am in a large urban area, it could have been polling very differently elsewhere.

I'd say it may pass in Dublin & Cork if it were done county by county or even province by province leinster due to the populaion of Dublin itself, but come voting day itself I reckon it would still come out as a no vote nationally which is a shame that here are still so many people stuck in that way of thinking.

Cool Mo D

Panrich wrote: »

People with high intelligence tend to have less children than people with lower intelligence. Therefore the global IQ is falling:

You're wrong. It's well known that global IQ is actually rising steadily - people with a normal IQ in the 1970's could be marked as special needs now.

It's called the Flynn effect : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect

And IQ tests were not designed to measure intelligence.

Grayson

feargale wrote: »

As a university graduate I have a vote in Seanad elections but I would abolish that privilege too. Democracy means one person, one vote, and anything other than democracy is a recipe for conflict.

I'm actually ok with the seanad vote. I think the seanad needs reform but i think that if universities, trade unions and other representative groups are allowed to send people to the seanad we may get a group that is both diverse and educated.

gypsy79

Intelligence isnt what should be used to measure if been allowed to vote. It should be based on contribution to society. People who take more than they give should not be allowed to vote

That is what got us where we are. People continued to vot for FF give aways

People dont like this or one of the worst American president in history would never have got a second term

HalloweenJack

Gannicus wrote: »

I'm in favour of same sex marriage. In saying that I reckon the no vote will win. The older generations who think homosexuality is "wrong" will vote in their masses but the younger generation (who I find vote seldomly if at all) that will be "okay" with gay marriage won't make much of an impact to affect the result their way while the LGBT community will be there to bolster the numbers for a yes vote

But this is exactly the thing about my proposal.

If you answer questions like "Homsoexuality is natural" with "false" because of your religious beliefs, then you wouldn't get to vote because you are clearly not thinking about things logically.

If you answer "true" and then vote no, fair enough that's your choice but at least you'll have shown that you are actually acknowledging the fact but you just disagree with it.

lazybones32

Leopardhyena wrote: »

IQ tests measure how well you can reason and apply logic as well as spatial skills. Those skills apply to other areas of life, not just IQ tests.

Afraid not...study a little deeper and you will see how flawed the whole IQ test-method is. I only stumbled on it when I was researching about how children learn.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/iq-tests-are-fundamentally-flawed-and-using-them-alone-to-measure-intelligence-is-a-fallacy-study-finds-8425911.html

Black people in America score lower on IQ tests than their white counterparts; does this mean that black people are less intelligent than whites?

dlouth15

HalloweenJack wrote: »

But this is exactly the thing about my proposal.

If you answer questions like "Homsoexuality is natural" with "false" because of your religious beliefs, then you wouldn't get to vote because you are clearly not thinking about things logically.

If you answer "true" and then vote no, fair enough that's your choice but at least you'll have shown that you are actually acknowledging the fact but you just disagree with it.

The problem is that cynics would say that you are trying to predetermine the outcome of the referendum with this test.

Panrich

Cool Mo D wrote: »

You're wrong. It's well known that global IQ is actually rising steadily - people with a normal IQ in the 1970's could be marked as special needs now.

It's called the Flynn effect : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect

And IQ tests were not designed to measure intelligence.

Unless you have something better than that to argue your case the I'll stick by my assertions:

http://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/science-and-technology/intelligence-quotient-james-flynn

It is crazy to think (as someone who was around at the time) that my peers in the 70s who could all read and write to level not common nowadays, would be considered special needs.

Gannicus

gypsy79 wrote: »

Intelligence isnt what should be used to measure if been allowed to vote. It should be based on contribution to society. People who take more than they give should not be allowed to vote

I would go on a bit of a tanget and say those on welfare who don't vote shout have money docked from their welfare payments unless they are elderly, infirm or on disability

gypsy79

lazybones32 wrote: »

Black people in America score lower on IQ tests than their white counterparts; does this mean that black people are less intelligent than whites?

It may mean that black people are less good at that particular test. They are possibly better at other human "tests"

There has been much testing on aboriginals in Austrailia that shows their brain power is considerably less than white people. This would make sense due to the isolation they suffered until 200 years ago. The Flynn test discussed earlier would be further reasons why it has happened

It is very un PC to talk about this

Duck Soup

Sure. Why not. Eligibility tests for voting have a long and honorable history.

http://abhmuseum.org/2012/09/voting-rights-for-blacks-and-poor-whites-in-the-jim-crow-south/