Seven-year-olds banned from tractors

whisky_galore

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/seven-year-olds-banned-from-tractors-650858.html

_Brian

Given the deaths on farms its hard to make any argument against this. I'm in full support for it.

whisky_galore

The ma used keep me indoors with sweets/tv/bribery during silage, having said that I had no great interest in being rattled around in the boneshakers of tractors back then.

longshanks

This can only be a good thing. How well it's enforced is another question though.

Sunset V

Just saw that in the journal alright. Not sure I agree with it though.

We were always educated on the dangers of the farm while being there. Education over legislation is my view.

PTOs and slurry pits make sense but the kids rule is a bit OTT.

twin_beacon

I disagree with it, in a lot of cases, the safest place for a young child to be is actually in the cab, with the driver. the driver knows exactly where they are at all times.

Kevhog1988

How will this be actually enforced??

micraX

Sure your not allowed or insured in a tractor unless you have a w licence anyway

Manach

I'd disagree. As other posters said, the sooner the child is educated by parents on the dangers of farm equipment the better while the law's purpose is to show the state is being seen to do something.

weatherbyfoxer

How many children were harmed safely seated in a tractor passenger seat???....seems more harm to have them running around on the farm while tractors are working??.

893bet

twin_beacon wrote: »

I disagree with it, in a lot of cases, the safest place for a young child to be is actually in the cab, with the driver. the driver knows exactly where they are at all times.

This.

Policy makers have no clue. Reeks of making policy for sake of it. Just to be seen taking action.

lakill Farm

education is the key

I had my niece (4) with me on Sunday. On a passenger seat with seat belt. She spends 10 hours a week on a tractor.

Now is she more of a danger than

a 40 year old on a drawbar of a trailer of hanging out the door and them knowing it all?

Deepsouthwest

My 3 yr old will be distraught at this news, I'll have to tell him it's his mothers idea!

GM228

A child is best with the parents wherever that may be as long as they are well educated-however what annoys me is when a child is allowed drive the tractor!

I've seen this many times-I've no problem with them "having a go" with superviosion for the experience but I have seen a few times kids driving them with no adult supervision! Pretty shocking!

GM228

whisky_galore

GM228 wrote: »

A child is best with the parents wherever that may be as long as they are well educated-however what annoys me is when a child is allowed drive the tractor!

I've seen this many times-I've no problem with them "having a go" with superviosion for the experience but I have seen a few times kids driving them with no adult supervision! Pretty shocking!

GM228

Just goes to show that there are some adults/parents who shouldn't be in charge of a cream bun, let alone a child. Of course they'll always claim that 'they know what's best'.:rolleyes:
Think the days that kids can run riot unsupervised around active farmyards are gone, esp with the amount of livestock being handled and the size of machines that you can't see a little person from. It was alright in the days when there was nothing bigger than a MF135 and a handful of cattle.

uck51js9zml2yt

I'm just amazed that people are so stupid to the dangers of farm machinery and children that they need regulation.

Anyone who let's a child in or around a piece of farm machinery or let's then drive should be charged with child endangerment.

As whisky galore said.. "cream buns...."

paddysdream

Good idea in theory but will be like a lot of things;never enforced unless something serious happens.
Farming and life in general seems to become more and more regulated each year and this is I presume a sop to all the farm accidents involving children in the last couple of years.

To be honest have kids here and never too fond of them on the tractor.Not maybe from their safety point of view but from the point of view that its rather difficult at times to give the job at hand your full attention whilst keeping an eye on the kid.
Would there be the same level of concern from posters if they decided to say ban all under 7s from going down the coal mines with their dads or maybe hanging around a building site or engineering factory with him all day?
Think those industries have a better safety record than the one we are involved in.

That said would rather a young lad up beside me where I can see him than running around the field or yard.Depends on the job in hand I suppose.Tipping around the field herding or something like ploughing then grand but say drawing silage,mowing etc then its a different story.

That said,some parents have no concept of danger or are too thick to see it.For example see one place at silage where the kids wander around the yard at all times(even around the pit as loads are tipped) and as soon as you arrive Daddy lands one up in each tractor and might not look for them again for hours.Got to the stage where now tell them that insurance prohibits any kids on machinery.Rather hard to concentrate on a high speed job when you have a 5 year old bouncing around on the passenger seat in the dark.

whisky_galore

paddysdream wrote: »

Would there be the same level of concern from posters if they decided to say ban all under 7s from going down the coal mines with their dads or maybe hanging around a building site or engineering factory with him all day?
Think those industries have a better safety record than the one we are involved in.

That's after hard experience, lobbying by unions, legislation and decades upon decades of fatalities.

Can't really compare to a building site, where if you don't have the proper PPE, machinery tickets, training/safe pass you won't be left work and unless you have specific business on site you will be told firmly to leave the premises.

FarmerDougal

micraX wrote: »

Sure your not allowed or insured in a tractor unless you have a w licence anyway

Your allowed drive on your own land from 14 years old without licence. Not covered though.

blue5000

As a farmer with an 8 year old I can see both sides of the argument. What are the alternatives? Put the kid in a ceche at €100-150 a week? That's the profit on a lot of cattle gone fairly fast.

Leave the kid in front of the tv/PS etc on their own?

Personally I'd prefer to have the kid with me, that way he is not only learning the dangers, but he is learning about farming too. What is he going to learn about farming in the creche, where almost any evening I go to collect him he is plonked in front of the tv anyway?

On the other hand it is totally irresponsible to have kids around a yard when silage etc. is going on and really unfair on the drivers.

_Brian

I'm very sure the construction and manufacturing industries poo-poo'd and moaned about the impracticality of safety legislation when it was introduced in their sectors..

Yet, over the last 100 years the safety in these industries has vastly improved.

If we're not willing to embrace change on such a fundamentally basic line item such as the safety of children and their exclusion from dangerous machinery then what hope is there.. Lets not be dinosaurs and move with the times folks.

The statistics on Irish farm deaths, specifically those of children speaks volumes, and its not a good story !

whisky_galore

_Brian wrote: »

I'm very sure the construction and manufacturing industries poo-poo'd and moaned about the impracticality of safety legislation when it was introduced in their sectors..

That they did, there was a time when there was an 'acceptable' number of fatalities factored into major engineering projects. This would be totally unthinkable now.

As for children 'learning' about farming, can you think of any other workplace where adults bring children in to 'learn' about what's involved?? I'm struggling to think of examples. If it's a child minder or some sort of supervision that's needed, isn't it worth paying for that, instead of paying for a funeral and becoming another statistic?

valtraman

Children are much safer in a modern enclosed safety cab than almost anywhere else on a farm ,after a drive they are more lightly to stay with Mom satisfied and not sneak to see whats going on and get driven over. TRACTORS just have a huge appeal for children

Miname

There are clowns out there that should have to apply for a licence to have a child , these are the ones that shouldnt have kids anywhere near a tractor but a blanket ban on all, is just another pr exercise. getting up on a tractor and working with stoc is all part of growing up on a farm.

_Brian

valtraman wrote: »

Children are much safer in a modern enclosed safety cab than almost anywhere else on a farm ,after a drive they are more lightly to stay with Mom satisfied and not sneak to see whats going on and get driven over. TRACTORS just have a huge appeal for children

But if you exclude tractors with contractors... what % of working tractors on Irish farms have designed second seats ?
I know in our area where small farms are the norm its near none.

frazzledhome

Mine will continue coming with me. Seat with belt provided fully enclosed secure cab, safer than travelling by car.

They love it and I love them with me

kowtow

I think it would be better if the law was phrased to specify that the child should be in a safety seat, rather than not in the tractor at all.

After all, you can ride through the centre of Dublin (or London) for that matter with a child in a seat on the back of your bicycle. Without a helmet on it, as far as I know - although I doubt many would today.

And sometimes having the child in the cab is safer than the alternative. It may mean a job can be done when it is safer, drier, light (at this time of year) rather than waiting for someone else to be home to mind the child.

Like all regulation, it is the unintended consequences which sometimes cause damage, rather than avoid it.

Greengrass1

I remember as a young lad no higher than my fathers knee sitting in the tractor. Great times. Would never have got to do any other farming as a young lad other wise.
Father even sent back a brand new tractors to dealers to get passenger seat put in it . Wouldn't even take it off the lorry.
New tractors nowadays are so much safer the new tractor here has a better passengee seat than most tractors driving seat

mahoney_j

No way my daughter is coming out with me on the farm,way too many hidden dangers and u just can't watch everything.there just not d enough to understand how dangerous a farm actually is.what do u do if your say putting out bales up and down out of tractor??if little Johnny is sitting in the tractor whilst your taking off plastic etc what's he/she going to do,naturally enough grab a lever or jump in the driver seat.i was on our farm with my dad as a young lad and often hear of stories about me or my brother and our near misses with the cows,tractor,bales of hay etcher got away lucky enough .
Most farms are now very busy places and one man operations ,if I need help I get the da or wife to give me a dig out but never a child as if anything happend I couldn't live with it.i think that proposal is a great idea ifvitbeven saves one life

DarByrne1980

I tink dat theres pros and cons when we were young we spent all our time on da farm lookin back now it woz dangerous but we managed 2 get away without anything major happening I do tink dat da major thing is supervision but supervision is very difficult on farms wit so much going on I wud be of da mindset dat its just not worth da risk children will hve plenty of time 2b on farms and in da yards when they are teenagers

Genghis Cant

According to the HSA accidents involving farmers over 55 often account for over 70% of on farm deaths.
50% of fatal accidents on farm in 2011 were over 65.
Maybe this needs to be looked at first.

dh1985

Genghis Cant wrote: »

According to the HSA accidents involving farmers over 55 often account for over 70% of on farm deaths.
50% of fatal accidents on farm in 2011 were over 65.
Maybe this needs to be looked at first.

Those figures may just reflect.the fact that a large proportion of farmers are over 65. Some of these surveys dont point out things like these. But I do understand your post too as sometimes the older guys are the people with the poor attitudes to safety

djmc

A bit over the top a modern tractor would be a safer place for a child than a car as they would be far more likely to be injured or killed in a car crash
The farm is no place for young kids unsupervised though backing over a child when putting in silage etc. or livestock would be a far greater risk IMO.

frazzledhome

mahoney_j wrote: »

No way my daughter is coming out with me on the farm,way too many hidden dangers and u just can't watch everything.there just not d enough to understand how dangerous a farm actually is.what do u do if your say putting out bales up and down out of tractor??if little Johnny is sitting in the tractor whilst your taking off plastic etc what's he/she going to do,naturally enough grab a lever or jump in the driver seat.i was on our farm with my dad as a young lad and often hear of stories about me or my brother and our near misses with the cows,tractor,bales of hay etcher got away lucky enough .
Most farms are now very busy places and one man operations ,if I need help I get the da or wife to give me a dig out but never a child as if anything happend I couldn't live with it.i think that proposal is a great idea ifvitbeven saves one life

Off seat in my loader or tractor nothing works or if you're too light. Like drive on lawn mower.

My lads are in the tractor since v small always warned about not touching anything, educate them. They all have at some stage jumped into seat while in opening a gap or something, all have hit throttle and all have been delivered home on the spot. Lots if tears but none will touch a control now. Educate farmer and kids

Feckthis

I remember when I was young my dad left myself and my brother in the car while he went into a house. I sat into the driver seat and pulled down the handbrake( we we're on a hill) we hoped of the car behind. No one was injured thankfully. And on a another note
My dad always reminds me about the story of a man who had a dog out with him ploughing. A tip broke, the man left the dog in the cab while fixing tip! Dog dropped the lift arms crushing the man instantly. He was a local and good friends with dad at the time. Still don't think he has fully got over it!

mahoney_j

frazzledhome wrote: »

Off seat in my loader or tractor nothing works or if you're too light. Like drive on lawn mower.

My lads are in the tractor since v small always warned about not touching anything, educate them. They all have at some stage jumped into seat while in opening a gap or something, all have hit throttle and all have been delivered home on the spot. Lots if tears but none will touch a control now. Educate farmer and kids

Agree but kids are kids all in takes is to hit the loader joystick and drop a bale,press a button and on comes pro or drop the linkage arms,too late to send them home then.i know when I was a kid and if told dont don't press that button or touch that it be a challenge I'd have to take,I was a kid and didn't see the danger,your kids and you got away with it but all it takes is one slip up and curtains

Muckit

The stanford marshmallow test comes to mind.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/features/11117560/The-marshmallow-test-Stanford-University-experiment-that-claims-to-predict-a-childs-future-successes.html

Watch the video in link

frazzledhome

Muckit wrote: »

The stanford marshmallow test comes to mind.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/features/11117560/The-marshmallow-test-Stanford-University-experiment-that-claims-to-predict-a-childs-future-successes.html

Watch the video in link

Will try tomorrow, I think I know the result I'll probably be surprised. The youngest will eat his and then will eat one of the other's. could be wrong

Sam Kade

twin_beacon wrote: »

I disagree with it, in a lot of cases, the safest place for a young child to be is actually in the cab, with the driver. the driver knows exactly where they are at all times.

There were accidents where the door of the tractor swung open on the road and the passenger fell out and was crushed to death.

There was a neighbour of mine who cut silage for another neighbour and he used to take the neighbours children for a drive around the field on the harvester tractor. He always closed all the windows and tied both door handles to one another with rope so there was no chance of them opening a door, and they were 8 or 9 at the time.

GRASSorMUCK

We have no kids around the yard full stop if anything is going on. The guys with kids know them selves not to bring the kids out to a job that requires a lot of concentration or if they're pushed for time and 'have to get on'.
But eg. The combine driver will have them out as otherwise he might not see them from one week to the next.

Dawggone

Total ban in place here.
Main yard is beside a town and the national pastime for the kids is to come and watch. PITA.

keep going

I also think the children are safest in the cab but I suppose what they are trying to do is keep childern out of the environment altogether.that said I know of one case where the child left his enclosed garden came down to the father with tragic consequences but the thing about all this is to get farmers to stop and think safety every now again.I have to admit I also had a cavalier attitudes to safety but now as the young lads are growing up do I want to educate them that way .proscuting fellas for breachs is actually a good thing if it educate s a few more in the area but alot of the an anti authority stance is taken.my childern do help me and and do get spins on tractors but they are not up on it all day.the problem is farmers have a number of big risk factors.1they work alone alot.2they deal with large unpredictable animals3they work with machinery in constanly changing environment 4work tends to be done in bursts of pressure due to weather.unfortunately these factors are the root cause of alot of farm accidents but that also means we should be more safety conscious than other industries

whisky_galore

dh1985 wrote: »

But I do understand your post too as sometimes the older guys are the people with the poor attitudes to safety

I would think complacency, taking short cuts and over familiarity would have a lot to do with this, and when things start getting out of hand esp. stock handling they can be a lot slower than a younger person to get out of harm's way.

Don't know if I would trust a kid in a tractor cab NOT to touch anything whilst I was off on the ground, even accidentally, education is all well and good and saying that my little Mary or my Johnny wouldn't do that, would you bet your life on it? This is a child who probably has very little concept of death and potential hazards... it only takes one second of curiousity, devil makes work for little hands. Most of us p*ssed around with tractor controls and car handbrakes like they were Fisher Price activity centres in our time, I'll bet.

Kevhog1988

Ive a 3 yr old who is absolutely tractor mad. I bought him a tractor lawnmower that we can set in first gear and let him mosey along at 1/2 mile per hour. Now after reading this I'm wondering if its such a good idea. I would have been reared on machinery, i was driving diggers from 5/6 yrs of age but i was always thought of the dangers also. I suppose maybe i was just lucky that i never had an accident or injured someone else.

twin_beacon

mahoney_j wrote: »

No way my daughter is coming out with me on the farm,way too many hidden dangers and u just can't watch everything.there just not d enough to understand how dangerous a farm actually is.what do u do if your say putting out bales up and down out of tractor??if little Johnny is sitting in the tractor whilst your taking off plastic etc what's he/she going to do,naturally enough grab a lever or jump in the driver seat.i was on our farm with my dad as a young lad and often hear of stories about me or my brother and our near misses with the cows,tractor,bales of hay etcher got away lucky enough .
Most farms are now very busy places and one man operations ,if I need help I get the da or wife to give me a dig out but never a child as if anything happend I couldn't live with it.i think that proposal is a great idea ifvitbeven saves one life

I agree with your points, I would never actually have a child in the cab with me for general yard work though as you are in and out of the cab, and its usually low speed work anyway.
but there is another side to it as well. When silage is being made by a contractor, they are in a rush to get to the next job. You have large tractors driving as quick as they can from the harvester to the pit, the in the yard you have the loading shovel. Exact same scenario for slurry spreading.
20 years ago, any time I heard a tractor in the summer I was gone like a bullet from a gun to see what it was. running around fields where silage was being made. Most contractors insisted that I go into the cab with them, as I would not get in the way in the field. I spend many hours of my summer holidays from national school on our neighbours john deere harvester, in the passenger seat. Now fast forward 20 years, tractors are much bigger, and travel much faster, and now kids are banned from the cabs! Honestly I can see this resulting in a death. all it takes is some child standing in the gap of a field when a tractor turns in.

trixychic

Ok this is something i have a real bee in my bonnet about.

A farm is a place of work. As is a bar, an office, a shop or a factory. We don't allow our children to come to work with us in these places do we? So why should it be different for farms?

Just so the child can be "educated"? There are now subjects in schools and colleges for ppl wanting to take up farming as with any other profession.

All little ones are going to love getting into tractors and going around. My 2 boys really love it. But they also love the idea of going driving in the front seat without proper restraint.

Kids don't know what is safe or not. Its our job as parents to teach them. I certainly won't be bringing my child to work any time soon as among other things it is not safe for them.

Kids don't belong in the work place ergo they don't belong on farms.

fastrac

An ease to contractors who dont want to offend customers by refusing to take kids for spins.A tractor driver has enough to be doing at busy times. Having witnessed two serious farm accidents I cant even begin to tell you the effect it has on families.

mahoney_j

trixychic wrote: »

Ok this is something i have a real bee in my bonnet about.

A farm is a place of work. As is a bar, an office, a shop or a factory. We don't allow our children to come to work with us in these places do we? So why should it be different for farms?

Just so the child can be "educated"? There are now subjects in schools and colleges for ppl wanting to take up farming as with any other profession.

All little ones are going to love getting into tractors and going around. My 2 boys really love it. But they also love the idea of going driving in the front seat without proper restraint.

Kids don't know what is safe or not. Its our job as parents to teach them. I certainly won't be bringing my child to work any time soon as among other things it is not safe for them.

Kids don't belong in the work place ergo they don't belong on farms.

100% agree,.have to say I'm astounded reading some of posts here with from what I can read is lads making excuses for having kids on a farm.a farm is no place for a child full stop unless 100% full time supervised.the fact that most of us grew up in a farm is a crap excuse,Farms were smaller then,machinery a lot smaller and less stock about.its a wonder there is so many farm accidents about when people have a cavalier attitude to farm safety and their families.

Muckit

I wonder how legislation will be worded is it 'agricultural vehicle' or 'tractor' or 'agricultural tractor'?

I most definitely think ride on lawn mower tractors should be included. Young lad 5 years old on this morning on Ireland am. Lost his leg from the knee down with one.

I can see both sides as regards this new law in general. There are good arguments on both sides. But I suppose ultimately as some others have said, bringing a child into an office let alone a factory wouldn't be allowed so why should it be tolerated in a farm situation?

I would say in this context, the new law didn't go far enough. Perhaps no child under 7 should be allowed on a farm full stop. As has been qualified by many others on here, a child is in as much if not more danger being in the presence of machinery while NOT in the cab.

Given their size, young children are a serious risk around livestock also . Cattle look on them as akin to a dog and are more curious and defensive of them as a result. Children have serious mobility issues, as have elderly members of family. If a dangerous situation did arise they wouldn't be able to react quick enough.

There also is the paradoxical imagery of animals portrayed in kids tv programmes of them being cute, cuddly and 'friendly.' Soft toys etc.

Kids are not adults plan and simple. They don't think or comprehend the dangers like us adults. Everything is a play thing. They don't give a rats ass about making silage making or any other farm job for that matter. They're always just looking for the opportunity in it for them 'to play.'

Childcare costs are not a valid argument either. The shelf stacker in lidl or the high brow office worker can't use this as a valid reason to bring their children to work. Farms aren't creches or a baby sitting service.

trixychic

Muckit wrote: »

Childcare costs are not a valid argument either. The shelf stacker in lidl or the high brow office worker can't use this as a valid reason to bring their children to work. Farms aren't creches or a baby sitting service.

Can't agree more!

twin_beacon

its very easy to say "ban all kids from farms", but where do you draw line? Our house is in the middle of a farm, surrounded by fields. When I was a kid, during the summer If I wasnt chasing tractors, I would have been playing hurling/football/soccer in the fields around the house, usually with cattle or sheep in them. I was a pure outdoors kid, I hated being inside. Banning kids from farms, would have to mean fields too, that would be terrible imo.

Kids should not be around farm yards alone, I agree with that. But to ban them from being a passenger in tractors is a bad decision imo. The reality is, during silage making/slurry spreading, any kid that is interested in farming will want to be, and will involved in it. the safest place for them is the cab of the tractor, even more so with modern tractors. Forcing them outside for the cab, means they will be hanging around the field/yard which is much more dangerous.