Moving away from home

foxy06

I've been thinking for a while now about buying a house 'down the country' I live quite close to dublin and family and friends are all close by. Work for me and my husband is close by and our kids are in good schools. We are renting at the moment and the time has come to consider buying but we couldn't afford where we live.

I am looking for people's thoughts on uprooting kids and moving away from work giving a 1hour commute but obviously for the benefit of a bigger house that we would be buying rather than renting. There are lots of factors but those are the main ones. Any experiences?

wexie

foxy06 wrote: »

I've been thinking for a while now about buying a house 'down the country' I live quite close to dublin and family and friends are all close by. Work for me and my husband is close by and our kids are in good schools. We are renting at the moment and the time has come to consider buying but we couldn't afford where we live.

I am looking for people's thoughts on uprooting kids and moving away from work giving a 1hour commute but obviously for the benefit of a bigger house that we would be buying rather than renting. There are lots of factors but those are the main ones. Any experiences?

Gee....there would be an awful lot of things to consider.

Quality of life, childcare, finances, support network.

If you have an hour commute a day (each way?) how much time will you get to spend with your kids, how much time will you have to look after a big house (and garden?) , how much more time will the kids spend in childcare? Will you have time for yourself after all this?

What age are the kids, do they have lots of friends where you are? Will they play together or make new friends easily?

What if you need to change jobs? What are your hobbies? Will your friends and family travel to come see you? Will you have space to accommodate over night visitors?

All of these things are considerations, if you think you're going to end up travelling to Dublin all the time for social occasions as well as work then travel costs will add up pretty quickly. Not to mention time spent driving.

Would you be able to work from home one or more days a week (even if work don't pay towards internet etc. the savings of not driving one day a week will add up.

Having said all of that, we live in rural Wexford and travel to Dublin and wouldn't change for the world, a house several times the size we could afford in Dublin, huuuge garden (which the kids love), quiet location, less than 10 minutes to any number of beaches, walk to the forest.

I would very much recommend looking into it but you really need to do it eyes wide open, there will be plenty of days where you're stuck in traffic on the N11 (presumably) and wished you still lived in Bray.

But then other days you'll be heading south (?), with the sun shining and you'll be heading home to your own little kingdom. (at least that's how I feel sometimes).

And certainly with house prices the way they are there's value to be had 'down the country' but that too seems to be changing. Especially (again) in the desirable areas of Wicklow.

jlm29

Do you work full time? I recently got a new job, and was able to cut my commute from 90 min to 30. I'd think long and hard about taking on a daily drive like that if I were you.
It's totally understandable that you'd want to own a house, but a long commute is hard work. I had great family support when doing it, and don't know could I have managed it without that. Also, I only did 4 days. I work 5 days now, and still have loads more time for my son. I get to see him in the mornings which I never used to!
Don't forget to factor in the cost of commute- fuel, tolls, increased car maintenance, tyres. It costs a bomb!

Good luck with whatever you decide. It's not an easy one!

Thargor

I dont think you should brush off adding hours to your daily commute so casually like that, no exaggeration its literally the difference between happiness and depression for me, Ill never do it again. 15 minute walk to my current job.

desertcircus

If you move from a place where your commute is negligible to a place where it'll be an hour each way, then calculate the cost of travel over the course of a year. That's the pay cut you'll be taking in order to spend an extra ten hours a week tied up thanks to work. It may be the case that other factors will come into play, but an hour's commute is expensive, time-consuming and fairly heavily impacts on quality of life. You're looking at spending almost 10% of your waking week getting to and from work, and there's a decent amount of evidence that people who commute long distances in order to afford a bigger house are less happy than people who choose the opposite.

If you're happy where you are, take a look at slightly less pleasant areas as close as possible to you. Consider buying a small house, or maybe even an apartment. Save aggressively for a few years to get a better LTV and a lower rate when you do apply for a mortgage. The people I know who bought well outside the city while continuing to work and socialise there are not happy with their decision.

foxy06

Ok I'll add a few more spanners to the works. The house we are renting is from the council. Area is ok but some of the locals are undesirable and so I definitely restrict my children's freedom. This also means that despite them going to good schools they are reluctant to ask friends home and lately I feel the older ones especially are a bit isolated. Buying an apartment or smaller house isn't really an option as we are a large family.

The commute issue is less of an issue for me as I have the option to work from home and could just go in once or twice a week. My husband will be driving to dublin and he says the commute wouldn't bother him as he drives for a living anyway.

handlemaster

What part of dublin are y ou in ? Can you rent else where in the area ?

foxy06

handlemaster wrote: »

What part of dublin are y ou in ? Can you rent else where in the area ?

No the rent prices are crazy in this area and there are very few places available. Really only 1 beds or 2 beds. Anyway I would like to own a house and we are nearly in that position but we could never afford (nor would it want) a mortgage for nearly half a million euros. So this is why I am thinking of moving further afield. It makes me nervous though uprooting all of our children (we have 5) and as mentioned before the regular commute on my husband and twice a week commute for me. Is it worth it though to have a bigger house of your own where the kids would have more freedom.

duckcfc

What about finding a job closer. I moved away from the big city and now live on west coast, best move I've ever made. I just have to look at the kids same age as my own and see a massive difference in them. I have more time to myself and love the countryside to much now to move back

hfallada

OP you need to look at the future. Petrol and Diesel about 6/7 ago were less than a €1 per litre and were close to €1,50 a litre recently. Could you afford a commute if Petrol is significantly more expensive? You also might save money moving down the country now. But realistically you are going to have to pay for 4 years accommodation for each of your children when they go to college in Dublin. Plus unlike Dublin children, when they graduate they will probably have to rent in Dublin, as they wont want to commute to work in Dublin city

foxy06

hfallada wrote: »

OP you need to look at the future. Petrol and Diesel about 6/7 ago were less than a €1 per litre and were close to €1,50 a litre recently. Could you afford a commute if Petrol is significantly more expensive? You also might save money moving down the country now. But realistically you are going to have to pay for 4 years accommodation for each of your children when they go to college in Dublin. Plus unlike Dublin children, when they graduate they will probably have to rent in Dublin, as they wont want to commute to work in Dublin city

That's a good point about colleges and work for the children.

Thanks everyone for replies so far. Don't know if I'll ever be able to decide! Luckily we have a roof over our head and are in no major hurry. I would love to be more financially secure and I thought moving to a more affordable area would help me do this but it's a shame we couldn't afford a house in this town. I definitely couldn't afford to rent elsewhere which is upwards of 1500 a month with people actually fighting to rent houses.

hfallada

foxy06 wrote: »

That's a good point about colleges and work for the children.

Thanks everyone for replies so far. Don't know if I'll ever be able to decide! Luckily we have a roof over our head and are in no major hurry. I would love to be more financially secure and I thought moving to a more affordable area would help me do this but it's a shame we couldn't afford a house in this town. I definitely couldn't afford to rent elsewhere which is upwards of 1500 a month with people actually fighting to rent houses.

I know plenty of people whose children earn €35k plus per year and still live at home. Have you considered a site and building a house?

hfallada

hfallada wrote: »

OP you need to look at the future. Petrol and Diesel about 6/7 ago were less than a €1 per litre and were close to €1,50 a litre recently. Could you afford a commute if Petrol is significantly more expensive? You also might save money moving down the country now. But realistically you are going to have to pay for 4 years accommodation for each of your children when they go to college in Dublin. Plus unlike Dublin children, when they graduate they will probably have to rent in Dublin, as they wont want to commute to work in Dublin city

It's more than 6 or 7 years ago when petrol was less than a euro a litre. Diesel is closer to 1.30 a litre than 1.50 a litre at the moment.

Mrs OBumble

foxy06 wrote: »

I would love to be more financially secure and I thought moving to a more affordable area would help me do this but it's a shame we couldn't afford a house in this town.

OP, unless your income has increased a lot from what it was when you got the council house, then I think it's mad that you're even considering buying. Trying not to be rude here - but council houses are for people who cannot afford to house themselves, and obviously they considered that you couldn't at allocation time.

If I was you, I'd focus on improving the neighbourhood.

Emme

Commuting is madness. I'm speaking from experience. I moved from the city where I had a 20 minute cycle to work to a rural area where I now commute by train, an hour and a half each way. I moved because I couldn't afford a house in the city. It was the worst thing I ever did.

There's no guarantee that the area you move to outside the city will be more "desirable" than where you are now. Some small rural towns make a city council estate look like heaven. Also some rural towns are incredibly unfriendly.

My advice is don't do it. Find some way to manage the negative aspects of where you live now. You have lots of amenities in the city and most things are a bus ride away.

If your partner drives for a living that's all very well but a commute of an hour each way or more adds up.

whippet

I mad the move from Dublin to a rural area about and hours commute from the office. It was a long process and something we considered very carefully. We actually rented in the area before buying to be sure.

We are two and a half years there now and we have firmly laid down roots and over all it has been a success and I have no regrets what so ever.

A couple of things in our case which made the move easier:

- My wife works from home- if she didn't or if she didn't work locally it wouldn't be practical, especially with schools, emergencies and all the hassle that is needed to be close to the kids school. While I leave early in the morning my wife can do the school run and back in the home office for just after nine.
- My in laws are living close by - sort of essential for support; especially before you make friends locally
- Kids were newborn and 3 years old .. so no major Life altering change.
- My work is relatively flexible and can work from home, leave early when I want. Even if I leave at half five I am home at half six and have plenty of time with the kids.
- I got involved with a local football club as soon as I arrived and this helped me integrate in to a very tight knit community. Which has developed in to a social and support structure for me, and through this my wife has also made friends.
- I never like urban living and living on the coast in a rural setting suits my vision of a quality lifestyle
- Even though we are rural, pubs, schools, sports clubs, beach and shops are all within relatively short walking distance.
- The house is large, much larger than anything that would have been on offer in dublin, friends and relatives come and stay for weekends and we probably spend more quality time with these people than we did previously.

Some of the negatives, commuting costs are significantly higher; which is more or less off set by the reduction in childcare costs – the difference between a dublin creche and the local one is about €450 per month. Work related socials tend to be in dublin, so its either Drive, stay over with folks or hotel – only really significant around this time of the year. As someone mentioned earlier – house and garden maintenance are a much bigger deal than when in dublin, my garden takes about 3 hours to cut the grass.

But remember; country life isn’t for everyone and I have met quite a few people who actually hate it out there and would dearly love (if they could afford) to move back to dublin.

wexie

whippet wrote: »

But remember; country life isn’t for everyone and I have met quite a few people who actually hate it out there and would dearly love (if they could afford) to move back to dublin.

Naah, I'll stay in the sunny South-East thanks, complete with all the inconveniences of having your own well, sewage, dodgy internet connection, no streetlights, power interruptions etc. etc.



Should see it at night with the moon shining on the sea....

wexie

Having said that, I've a fuel card and car allowance and mrs. Wexie only works 3 days a week.
As others have pointed out, the cost of travel is not to be underestimated.

We wouldn't change for anything though, closer to Dublin, perhaps, but in Dublin, never again.

Michael D Not Higgins

wexie wrote: »

Naah, I'll stay in the sunny South-East thanks, complete with all the inconveniences of having your own well, sewage, dodgy internet connection, no streetlights, power interruptions etc. etc.



Should see it at night with the moon shining on the sea....

One-off houses for everyone! This kind of rural planning is part of the reason for the problems you mention.

Michael D Not Higgins

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

One-off houses for everyone! This kind of rural planning is part of the reason for the problems you mention.

One off housing for whoever wants it yes, live in the city if you wish but don't be concerned about trying to interfere in the lives of people who want to live in the country. What next, communist blocks?

Michael D Not Higgins

Moses Massive Stipend wrote: »

One off housing for whoever wants it yes, live in the city if you wish but don't be concerned about trying to interfere in the lives of people who want to live in the country. What next, communist blocks?

Ah here, you're only a step away from Godwin. You should've gone the whole hog.

There are many arguments for and against rural one-off houses. I just happen to subscribe to the latter.

wexie

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

One-off houses for everyone! This kind of rural planning is part of the reason for the problems you mention.

What problems did I mention? I don't recall mentioning problems. Some minor inconveniences alright but nothing that's a problem.

What possible reasons could you possibly have against one off houses? Would you rather see estates flooding the country side (we know how well that worked out) or just keep people to the cities and towns?

Michael D Not Higgins

wexie wrote: »

What problems did I mention? I don't recall mentioning problems. Some minor inconveniences alright but nothing that's a problem.

What possible reasons could you possibly have against one off houses? Would you rather see estates flooding the country side (we know how well that worked out) or just keep people to the cities and towns?

Depopulation of towns in rural areas, spoilage of areas of natural beauty for tourism, etc.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/greenpolitics/planning/8759946/The-housing-developers-dream-that-ruined-Ireland.html

Edit: this is all completely off topic and I'd like to echo Mrs. O'Bumble's sentiments on tempering the OP's ideas of home ownership if they haven't received a substantial income increase.

foxy06

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

OP, unless your income has increased a lot from what it was when you got the council house, then I think it's mad that you're even considering buying. Trying not to be rude here - but council houses are for people who cannot afford to house themselves, and obviously they considered that you couldn't at allocation time.

If I was you, I'd focus on improving the neighbourhood.

Not sure how to respond to this. I got a council house when I couldn't afford to house myself and we improved education and worked hard so we are now in a position to house ourselves. Just not in the town we are in now. Hence the question in op. What do you mean by focusing on improving the neighbourhood? In other words stay in the council house despite all efforts made to improve income?

whippet

foxy06 wrote: »

Not sure how to respond to this. I got a council house when I couldn't afford to house myself and we improved education and worked hard so we are now in a position to house ourselves. Just not in the town we are in now. Hence the question in op. What do you mean by focusing on improving the neighbourhood? In other words stay in the council house despite all efforts made to improve income?

you have every entitlement to better yourself and your family and if you do manage to better yourself you should be able to look forward to the rewards.

However, i'd be very cautious of just moving to a more rural setting purely for the reasons of wanting a bigger house. A bigger house is of no use to anyone if they don't want to be in the location. Don't underestimate the need to be close to family and friends .. it does take time to integrate in to a small community and when you have children you might not have as much time to get out and socialise to meet the new people.

Why not consider renting somewhere for a little while and see how you adapt to the area ..you'll probably answer most of your questions yourself.

What do the children think and what ages are they.

Do you know anyone where you are proposing to live.

How would you cope without having family support nearby.

The commute would be a huge thing for me.

Is there anyone you could talk to who has done it and who could really give an insight to what its like.

foxy06

whippet wrote: »

you have every entitlement to better yourself and your family and if you do manage to better yourself you should be able to look forward to the rewards.

However, i'd be very cautious of just moving to a more rural setting purely for the reasons of wanting a bigger house. A bigger house is of no use to anyone if they don't want to be in the location. Don't underestimate the need to be close to family and friends .. it does take time to integrate in to a small community and when you have children you might not have as much time to get out and socialise to meet the new people.

Why not consider renting somewhere for a little while and see how you adapt to the area ..you'll probably answer most of your questions yourself.

We did think of renting somewhere and we are not just considering Very rural we could consider a larger town like carlow, mulligan or similar so we wouldn't be too isolated.

foxy06

mariaalice wrote: »

What do the children think and what ages are they.

They are 12 (he wants to have more freedom but doesn't want to change schools. Would be my biggest concern as he doesn't mix easily) 10 (very sociable and would settle anywhere easily - would sell his mother for his own room) 5 (only started junior infants) 4 ( in preschool) 2( I tried talking to him about moving but he just grunts and gives me his beaker to refill)

Do you know anyone where you are proposing to live. Not really in most of the larger towns but one of the rural towns we were concidering we do know people

How would you cope without having family support nearby. It would be tough without one particular family member but I would visit regularly. I think it would seem the others more as well would be able to ask people around more with a larger house


The commute would be a huge thing for me.

Is there anyone you could talk to who has done it and who could really give an insight to what its like. not really, that's why I was hoping boards could help

See above

Misty Moon

I'm a big fan of Mr. Money Mustache and he has a post about The True Cost of Commuting, which is interesting to read. Obviously, some things won't apply to Ireland but most of it is at least somewhat applicable. You really need to do some serious sums to figure out the financial aspect as well as trying to figure out the non-financial stuff (distance from family/current support network etc.).

How much will you save on the mortgage versus rent now versus rent in a non-council house in a better area in Dublin versus mortgage in Dublin? Costs when owning a house that you don't have when renting. Difference of childcare costs. Physical costs of commuting (fuel/wear and tear), including an amount for your time.

What about finding jobs in the areas you're considering moving to if you decided at a future date that the commuting is too much? Any prospects? Any jobs that would pay enough to cover your mortgage?

Bear in mind as well that there are places outside Dublin that are just as bad as some of the worse parts in Dublin. I remember a discussion on AAM a while back about why people weren't buying cheap properties in Longford (maybe Leitrim? But I think it was Longford), even as an investment and others came on to say they knew the area and you couldn't pay them to buy there.

Also, remember that a bigger house means more cleaning. You might not mind but it's certainly something I think about when I'm indulging fantasies of owning my own place.

Emme

foxy06 wrote: »

We did think of renting somewhere and we are not just considering Very rural we could consider a larger town like carlow, mulligan or similar so we wouldn't be too isolated.

Carlow is more than an hour from Dublin even taking the motorway into account. It's not a bad place as regards amenities but rural people can be surprisingly unfriendly. Would you move to Kildare town? It's not too far from Dublin for commuting and there is a very good train service.

Don't be tempted to move to smaller rural towns such as Athy if you value your sanity and everything else. Property is cheap in these places for a reason.

Misty Moon wrote: »

I'm a big fan of Mr. Money Mustache and he has a post about The True Cost of Commuting, which is interesting to read. Obviously, some things won't apply to Ireland but most of it is at least somewhat applicable. You really need to do some serious sums to figure out the financial aspect as well as trying to figure out the non-financial stuff (distance from family/current support network etc.).

That's a very interesting read and it makes sense. I wouldn't have moved out of the city if I didn't have family in the area where I live now, but even so it hasn't worked out for me. I would go back to the city in the morning if I could afford it.

hfallada

wexie wrote: »

What problems did I mention? I don't recall mentioning problems. Some minor inconveniences alright but nothing that's a problem.

What possible reasons could you possibly have against one off houses? Would you rather see estates flooding the country side (we know how well that worked out) or just keep people to the cities and towns?

If you go to Germany, the Netherlands etc. You will see no houses for several miles, than about 10 bunched together. It makes it cheaper and possible to supply broadband, water services, electricity a lot cheaper, than houses scattered all over the place.I remember visiting my grandparents in the West a child. Seeing nothing but green fields and the odd house. Now its full of one off housing, which are horrible tasteless bungalows.

Estates flooding the countryside has worked perfectly in Dublin. Glasnevin is a perfect example. There was a tramline built connecting it to the city and the houses were built in mostly straight lines to maximise density. There was telephones installed in them from day one(this was the early 20s and a lot of rural Ireland didnt have telephones in mid 1960s). These estates have no social issues and people can take public transport into town. By building these estate, North county Dublin around the airport wasnt littered with one off housing

Im sorry but if you choose to live in the middle of no where. Dont expect the state to supply broadband and public transport to your hall door like someone in the city.

Emme

hfallada wrote: »

Im sorry but if you choose to live in the middle of no where. Dont expect the state to supply broadband and public transport to your hall door like someone in the city.

Few people choose to live in the middle of nowhere unless it's related to their livelihood, i.e. farming. I would say that most people who live in the middle of nowhere and aren't farming aren't doing so by choice, they are doing so because they cannot afford to live anywhere else.

I bet those clusters of houses in the Netherlands and Germany have better public transport links and amenities than many small towns in rural Ireland. Small rural towns have the worst of both worlds - they have a lack of good public transport and amenities AND they have the same crime problems that occur in city suburbs without amenities.

Economist Dr Constantin Gurdgiev said that there should be more high density housing in cities and the idea behind this was that housing in cities would be more affordable. This is all very well if it is properly planned with adequate amenities. Many housing estates in Ireland around cities and in rural areas were hastily thrown up with an eye on profit and without proper planning for public transport and amenities. As long as this continues Irish people will live in one-off housing.

Irish people are obsessed with land and are unwilling to live in apartments. This is a hangover from famine days and colonisation. It also stems from lack of proper tenant rights and poor building regulations. Many apartments are not properly soundproofed, indeed many semi-detached houses are not properly soundproofed. Some of my friends bought a house in the late 90s in a "nice" part of south Dublin and they can hear every move their next door neighbours make as well as entire conversations.

We have to change our mindset in Ireland. Housing is for the primary benefit of people and the community, not for the primary benefit of developers, investors and landlords. Little has changed since the days of rackrents and absentee landlords and this is why people are forced to live 50km or more from where they work if they want adequate and affordable housing.

Mrs OBumble

foxy06 wrote: »

Not sure how to respond to this. I got a council house when I couldn't afford to house myself and we improved education and worked hard so we are now in a position to house ourselves. Just not in the town we are in now. Hence the question in op. What do you mean by focusing on improving the neighbourhood? In other words stay in the council house despite all efforts made to improve income?

Like I said, not trying to be mean. If your income has improved significantly since you got the council house, to the point that you can think about buying somewhere, then that's great. (I'm impressed if that's happened given the amount of time you were likely to have been on the list before getting a house. Fair play to you.)

Unfortunately the rules around council housing actually see you pretty much trapped where you are: if you give up the council house to try renting further out, and it doesn't work, then you won't get another council house for a very long time. And you are not allowed to keep it if you aren't living there.

What are the chances of you and your partner getting jobs based somewhere more affordable? That would be one way to afford a house without the commute. (Just remember that you are Dubs, and the harsh truth about some small towns is that you won't be 100% welcomed.)

Re improving the neighbourhood: what pro-social activities are there for kids in the area? Sports, music, whatever. When there aren't options, this is what tends to breed anti-social activities. Personally I think you may get more benefit from investing the time you would spend commuting in community activites.

wexie

hfallada wrote: »

If you go to Germany, the Netherlands etc. You will see no houses for several miles, than about 10 bunched together. It makes it cheaper and possible to supply broadband, water services, electricity a lot cheaper, than houses scattered all over the place.

I'm not sure quite where in the Netherlands you're referring to, it must be a part I've never visited in the 24 years I lived there. Certainly the parts I've seen you'd be hard pushed to find anywhere outside of a national park where you could be further than a mile away from a house or farm. Never mind several miles. And little settlements of 10 or so houses simply don't exist. It's less than half the size of Ireland and has nearly 4 times the population so the comparison is pretty poor.

hfallada wrote: »

Im sorry but if you choose to live in the middle of no where. Dont expect the state to supply broadband and public transport to your hall door like someone in the city.

I don't and I don't believe mentioning it anywhere? My broadband is more than sufficient for my needs (and should they change than extra bandwidth is only a phonecall away) and you couldn't pay me to take public transport so I certainly couldn't care less if it's available or not.

I chose to live in the countryside because it allows me space and peace and quiet and because my lifestyle allows me to do so.