Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Very young girls wearing the hijab
Options
-
12-11-2014 5:48pm#1Hi was on the bus today and there was 2 girls, somewhere around 5,6 or 7, both wearing hijab. Felt it was making them stand out, separating them from their peers and the wider world. It was making them look and probably feel different and they were just very little girls. I felt a little bit sad. They were not sexual.to anybody but paedophiles. Is it mainstream Muslim opinion that they should be veiled so young?.1
Comments
-
The mainstream opinion is that girls should wear a headscarf from puberty onwards. Some parents do make younger girls wear it (and some younger girls want to wear it of their own accord, e.g. to emulate their mothers) - from the point of view of getting girls used to it beforehand so it won't be a difficult adjustment for them later on.
I don't see it as something that separates them from their peers (or indeed the wider world). There's nothing wrong with people looking different - we're all unique and different for one reason or another. Appearances only become an issue when people treat others differently because of them, and the young girls themselves probably wouldn't consider the headscarf as anything unusual, because that's what they've grown up around. Wearing a headscarf doesn't restrict them from interacting with the world and just being the little girls that they are - it's just one part of them.0 -
There's lot of Muslims where I live and I've never seen a little girl in a headscarf, it's always teens onwards and even then it's matter of choice, many don't. There was a little Muslim girl at my daughter's 12th birthday party and I only knew because she asked me to order her a halal pizza. The majority of the Muslims here are of Turkish or Morrocan origin, though, and I know that at least for the Turks that they're not at all strict.
Maybe the little girls just wanted to look like mummy today. Some of those headscarfs are absolutely beautiful.0 -
I suppose I should clarify that I meant "mainstream opinion" as far as the religious teaching goes - opinions of parents/cultures and adherence to the teaching does obviously vary.0
-
I think it made them stand out and probably makes them more likely to be bullied. And they are going to grow up thinking of themselves as sex objects, thinking of males as predators. Why not teach men to respect women and control themselves ?.0
-
confusedquark wrote: »There's nothing wrong with people looking different - we're all unique and different for one reason or another. Appearances only become an issue when people treat others differently because of them
You do realise that this is an argument against hijab, right?0 -
Advertisement
-
My son is in Junior Infants with one little girl who wears a headscarf..it was a bit strange at first because its not something you normally see but no one bats an eyelid now. And afaik the kids don't care, my son has never mentioned it anyway.0
-
It may make them stand out in Western countries and sadly also make them more likely to be bullied as well, but make them think of themselves as sex objects? That's quite a leap. Does a 5 year old western girl putting on make up think of herself as a sex object, or is she just playing dress up and trying to emulate the women around her?0
-
I think it made them stand out and probably makes them more likely to be bullied. And they are going to grow up thinking of themselves as sex objects, thinking of males as predators. Why not teach men to respect women and control themselves ?.
They might be more likely to be bullied, but surely then it's the bullying that needs to be dealt with. If right-wingers become more prominent in Ireland in years to come and start attacking women in hijab, do we just dwell over the fact that they are wearing hijab and suggest they shouldn't have been wearing it? Conversely, I think it's a good idea for kids in school to personally know girls who wear hijab - it's a good place to foster understanding and respect of our differences.
Sooner or later, most girls/women do come to the realisation that they are viewed as sex objects by a certain proportion of men, but as the previous poster highlights, that realisation doesn't come in the innocence of childhood, and when it later does, there's no harm in girls being vigilant - because even though male predators are thankfully a rare breed, every girl (whether in a hijab or not) needs to know that they are out there.
Yes, we absolutely should teach men to respect women and control themselves, and every man who learns that lesson will be one less potential sexist/pervert/wife-beater/predator, but despite our best efforts, we won't be able to tame all men, and girls will always be at some level of risk. And hijab isn't just to protect girls from perverts and predators, it's also to protect them from pre-marital relationships (which are disliked in Islam). And it's not just girls that have to follow the rules, boys are also instructed in Islam to lower their gaze (ie not gawk at girls) and limit their interactions with the fairer gender to when only absolutely necessary.0 -
Does covering the hair really alleviate male lust though, I've heard an Islamic scholar say that the only people interested in a womans hair are other women.0
-
I'm not sure which scholar would have said that, but I don't agree with that statement. Yes women are a lot more in tune with subtle (and sometimes not so subtle) changes in the appearances of one another, but hair are a big part of a woman's beauty and attraction.
Secondly, hijab isn't just the headscarf - the headscarf is one part of hijab/dressing modestly, which also includes covering up much of their body, and wearing loose-fitting clothes to hide their various curves. All that does reduce male lust.0 -
Advertisement
-
I thought the reason women valed themselves was to gain and retain respect.
i.e. you vale what should be treated as sacred and with special respect.
It's not that long ago that Catholic women in the west also wore head coverings for the same reason. Tabernacles also used to be vailed for the same reason.0 -
I think it made them stand out and probably makes them more likely to be bullied. And they are going to grow up thinking of themselves as sex objects, thinking of males as predators. Why not teach men to respect women and control themselves ?.Does covering the hair really alleviate male lust though, I've heard an Islamic scholar say that the only people interested in a womans hair are other women.
In The Name of Allah, The Most Beneficent, The Most Merciful;
muslim women do not wear the Hijab to alleviate the lust of man they wear it because #1 God ordered them to do so:
“And tell the believing women to lower their gaze (from looking at forbidden things), and protect their private parts (from illegal sexual acts) and not to show off their adornment except only that which is apparent (like both eyes for necessity to see the way, or outer palms of hands or one eye or dress like veil, gloves, headcover, apron), and to draw their veils all over Juyoobihinna (i.e. their bodies, faces, necks and bosoms)"
This same massage is directed toward men,
"Tell the believing men to lower their gaze and be modest. That is purer for them. Allah is aware of what they do."
(24:29/30)
The Muslim man will never look at a women as a sex object as the Prophet instructed him and directed him in numerous Hadiths to be respectful of women and control his desires and weaknesses:
The Prophet (saws) said:
"Whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day should not hurt (trouble) his neighbor. And I advise you to take care of the women, for they are created from a rib and the most crooked portion of the rib is its upper part; if you try to straighten it, it will break, and if you leave it, it will remain crooked, so I urge you to take care of the women." (Sahih Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 62, Number 114)
‘Among the Muslims the most perfect, as regards his faith, is the one whose character is excellent, and the best among you are those who treat their wives well.’ Al-Tirmidhi Hadith 628
"Women are but the sisters of man the one who honour them is honourable and those who humiliate them are but wicked" Musnad Ahmad ibn Hanbal
To the Muslim women or girl the Hijab is an act of truthfulness so everybody will know that "I am a Muslim women and am proud of being a Muslim women"
It's also a warning telling everybody that what stand before you is a women that knows her value, and knows her worth. She is not a toy so don't even try and play with her. She knows that the only person in Islam god directly gave glad tiding was a women,that In Islam the rights of the mother is 3 times to the rights of the father,that In Islam we believe that paradise is under the feet of the mothers.
The last sermon the prophet gave in his life enforced and highlighted the rights of women in which he said:
"O People, it is true that you have certain rights over your women, but they also have rights over you. Remember that you have taken them as your wives only under God's trust and with His permission. If they abide by your right then to them belongs the right to be fed and clothed in kindness. Treat your women well and be kind to them, for they are your partners and committed helpers"
The reason some Muslim parents may veil their children at a young age is to teach them such values such as once the child hit puberty the Hijab would not be difficult for them to wear.
If you are a Christian I would like to also remind you that the concept of the Hijab or a veil should not be a strange one to you as the bible states:
"For if a woman does not cover her head, she might as well have her hair cut off; but if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, then she should cover her head."
1 Corinthians 11:6
However the Islamic meaning and value behind the Hijab is much more deeper then a simple order.
0 -
How can you be so sure Defender of the Faith that God really spoke to Mohammad? How do you know that it is the truth? what role have the billions of other planets in Gods creation? what is Islams view on these ?.0
-
while i have no problem with any person wearing what they like whenever they like for whatever reason they like . what really gets me is these women can drive a car with their faces completely covered with just a tiny little slit so they can see . if i drive down the road wearing a balaklava iv 3 or 4 garda cars on my tail . double standard i want equality for all0
-
mickmurphy18 wrote: »while i have no problem with any person wearing what they like whenever they like for whatever reason they like . what really gets me is these women can drive a car with their faces completely covered with just a tiny little slit so they can see . if i drive down the road wearing a balaklava iv 3 or 4 garda cars on my tail . double standard i want equality for all
The Muslim headscarf and the veil are two very different things, with the former being the topic of this discussion, not the latter.0 -
To answer this question fully would deviate us from the topic of this thread, however if you were to translate the meaning of the word Islam into English it would mean: surrender, submission, obedience, sincerity and finally to be in peace with whatever God gave you. It takes these 5 word to describe Islam in English and as you can see Islam is all about God.How can you be so sure Defender of the Faith that God really spoke to Mohammad? How do you know that it is the truth? what role have the billions of other planets in Gods creation? what is Islams view on these ?.
"Say (O Muhammed): verily my prayer, my sacrifice, my living, and my dying are for Allah the Lord of mankind. He has no partner. And of this I have been commanded, and I am the first of the Muslims"
(Chapter 7 162-163)
Islam does not want people to follow it blindly and hence many verses in the Quran invite people to reflect,think and use their intellect to find god and the truth, the sentence "Men of understanding" appear several times in the Quran.
No author of a book in this world can write a book and tells you it's free from mistake the Quran however dares you to find a mistake,
"Do they not consider the Quran carefully? Had it been from other than Allah they would surely have found therein many a contradiction" (121:82)
If you were to take the books of all the world religions and dump them into the sea, the Quran will be the only book that will survive as it's the only scripture that has been and continue to be fully memorized letter by letter and word by word in the heart of the Muslims.
"Verily, it is We Who have sent down the Quran and surely we will guard it from corruption"(14:9)
It's a clear fact that more then 1400 years have elapsed and not a single word of this Quran has been changed. On the contrary all the other holy books have been corrupted in the form of additions of subtractions or alternations in the original text.
"And verily it's an honourable well-fortified and respected book. Falsehood cannot come to it from before it or behind it: it is sent down by the All-Wise,worthy of all praise. Nothing is said to you (O Muhammed) except what was said to the messengers before you. Verily, your lord is the Possessor of Forgiveness, and (also) the Possessor of Painful Punishment"(41:43)
The truth will not come to you. You will need to go and seek it, pray to God that he guide you to his path sincerely, walk up at night and say "Oh God if you are really out there lead me to you and take my hand toward you".
we as Muslim say in our prayer 17 times a day "Guide us (Oh God) to the straight path"(Chap 1 vers.6) If you do this sincerely then I can guarantee you that you will find the truth.
"As for those who strive hard in our cause, we will surely guide them to our path. And verily, Allah is with the good doers"(29:69)
If you are interested to know more about Islam I suggest the following sources:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4s2UTAtSKd0
http://www.onereason.org/islam-unveiled/why-islam/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOwA0v026wY0 -
Making younger girls wear headscarves at ages where most traditionally didn't, is a noticeable recent trend in Islam worldwide:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2010/nov/23/muslim-girls-wearing-hijab
The author of the Guardian article, Baher Ibrahim, is a Muslim and a doctor from Egypt. Interesting final paragraph: "Finally, I am sure that when this article is translated into Arabic and posted on Egyptian websites, the usual flood of comments will ensue; how I am anti-hijab, how I want to strip Egyptian and Muslim women of their modesty, how I want Muslim women to "walk around naked like western women", and so on. I tell them my view on the hijab is irrelevant. The issue at hand is: what exactly is the point of imposing a scarf on a little girl, and why is it becoming more common?"
I suspect he's holding back from giving his own opinion, maybe hoping the question itself might make people draw back from following a new trend unquestioningly.
In my own view, this is just a small part of what some call the "mainstreamization" of more fundamental views of Islam like Salafism and Wahhabism. In order to seem more religious or "pure", people seek out the strictest interpretations/guidelines possible. e.g. banning music, dogs, etc. Of course, not that the everyone calling themselves a Sunni Muslim has made this change, but that there has been a "shift" in attitudes in that direction.
To take a global view you could say that there was a revival of religion/religiosity around the 1970s. From the rise of Hindu movements, the BJP in India, Born Again Christianity/http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Great_Awakening and also with Islam: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_revival.
(I know some mods will point out that wikipedia isnt a "reputable" source but its a very handy one-stop shop for a quick summary - we can all read deeper elsewhere).
But what makes the Islamic revival different is the unique character of Islam in Saudi Arabia, and the impact its oil-wealth boom had on spreading their version of Islam worldwide.
Added to this, people in the Middle East became disillusioned with the failures of secular Arab nationalist regimes. The West/US often gets the blame for promoting extreme Islam as part of its Cold War agenda. But outside of assisting General Zia in Pakistan, and movements in neighbouring Afghanistan, I can't see the evidence of this.0 -
Defender if the Faith, that is true now, but wasn't a lot of the origninal Quaran lost, for that very reason, that it was an oral tradition, not written down for a hundred years and a lot of the 'Oralists' were warriors who were killed in war... I have a link where one can read more about this, but I'm afraid that posting it would lead to a banning, it shouldn't but I fear it might...thanks Donagh,,,If you were to take the books of all the world religions and dump them into the sea, the Quran will be the only book that will survive as it's the only scripture that has been and continue to be fully memorized letter by letter and word by word in the heart of the Muslims.0 -
Defender if the Faith, that is true now, but wasn't a lot of the origninal Quaran lost, for that very reason, that it was an oral tradition, not written down for a hundred years and a lot of the 'Oralists' were warriors who were killed in war... I have a link where one can read more about this, but I'm afraid that posting it would lead to a banning, it shouldn't but I fear it might...thanks Donagh,,,
Its seems that the link you have read mislead you I would like to see it so I can clear your doubts.
Mohammed (PBUH) was illiterate and could not read nor write, initially the prophet forbad his companion from writing the Quran to encourage memorizing it however later during his life a group of his companions know as "the writers/scribes of revelations" numbering between 23 to 43 men had the duty of writing down the revelation/Quran.
The Quran remained preserved in the heart of his companion and in the various hides that were used to write the revelation, until the time of the 1st Caliph Abu Bakr.
During his short reign, many of the companions whom memorized the Quran were killed during the Ridda wars, and thus in fear of the Quran being lost in the heart of those killed he decided to collect the Quran into a single book to preserve it (by gathering the various papers and scripts the Quran was written in those were possessed by a number of people) this task was given to Zayd ibn Thabit.
Zayd finally accepted the task and, according to him,
"started locating the Quranic material and collecting it from parchments, scapula, leafstalks of date palms and from the memories of men (who knew it by heart)". Being very strict in his collection of the Quran and even though he had memorized it he refused to write a verse unless 2 of the companion testified that they heard it from the prophet.
The original book that was compiled by Zayd Ibn Thabit was with Abu Bakr during his rule, it was written on palm leaves. After Abu Bakr passed away it was handed down to Umar and then to Hafsa the daughter of Umar Ibn Al Khattab after Umar death, the wife of the Prophet had the book in her possession until the Caliphate of Uthman Ibn Affan.
This with regard to the Quran as a book, however another reason the Quran was well preserved is because those who were teachers of the Quran would have an ijazah and this system continues on still today, a teacher of the Quran must have this as it certify that this named person had read the Quran correctly from cover to cover through face to face interaction with his teacher who would then give him an Ijazah to teach and read the Quran, testifying that you -the student- have recited the Quran to me in the exact same way my teacher had recited it to me, he should then be able to trace this chain of narration back to one of the prophet companion before finally the prophet him self.
Currently in the Muslim world the person with the closest chain of narration to the prophet is a women called Um Alsaad from Egypt with only 27 people between her and the prophet.
I also suggest that you would read the Quran for yourself first before you read articles, or listen to people that criticize the Quran. It doesn't really make sense for people to criticize or listen to the criticism of a book they haven't even read, unfortunately this is the attitude most people have with regard to the Quran.
If you do not have access to a copy your local mosque will be more then happy to provide you with one.
Source:http://ibnalhyderabadee.wordpress.com/2006/04/11/legacy-of-abu-bakr-compilation-of-the-quraan/0 -
Actually I've had the Quaran in my house for years. I've not read it from start to finish but I've read a lot of it...I also suggest that you would read the Quran for yourself first before you read articles, or listen to people that criticize the Quran. It doesn't really make sense for people to criticize or listen to the criticism of a book they haven't even read, unfortunately this is the attitude most people have with regard to the Quran0 -
Advertisement
-
In my own view, this is just a small part of what some call the "mainstreamization" of more fundamental views of Islam like Salafism and Wahhabism. In order to seem more religious or "pure", people seek out the strictest interpretations/guidelines possible. e.g. banning music, dogs, etc. Of course, not that the everyone calling themselves a Sunni Muslim has made this change, but that there has been a "shift" in attitudes in that direction.
Is a parent "imposing" a crucifix on a child a small part of what some call the "mainstreamization" of more fundamental views of Christianity? ... Parents are entitled to bring up their children, and to introduce their religion to their children however they see fit - and not every decision a parent makes for their child is driven by a "strictest interpretation" of their religion. There can be practical reasons behind certain decisions as well, e.g. to help a girl become comfortable wearing the headscarf beforehand so that it's not a big adjustment for her later on. Personally I might not agree with that parenting philosophy, but somebody doing that for their child isn't following more fundamental views of Islam, because the fundamentals are pretty clear and unambiguous on the topic - it's simply not necessary before puberty, so any parent who does do it isn't following any strict interpretation, that's just their choice and they'll have their individual reasons for deciding so.0 -
mickmurphy18 wrote: »while i have no problem with any person wearing what they like whenever they like for whatever reason they like . what really gets me is these women can drive a car with their faces completely covered with just a tiny little slit so they can see . if i drive down the road wearing a balaklava iv 3 or 4 garda cars on my tail . double standard i want equality for all
Like those signs that tell you to remove your motorcycle helmet when you go into a bank.......?0 -
confusedquark wrote: »Is a parent "imposing" a crucifix on a child a small part of what some call the "mainstreamization" of more fundamental views of Christianity? ... Parents are entitled to bring up their children, and to introduce their religion to their children however they see fit - and not every decision a parent makes for their child is driven by a "strictest interpretation" of their religion. There can be practical reasons behind certain decisions as well, e.g. to help a girl become comfortable wearing the headscarf beforehand so that it's not a big adjustment for her later on. Personally I might not agree with that parenting philosophy, but somebody doing that for their child isn't following more fundamental views of Islam, because the fundamentals are pretty clear and unambiguous on the topic - it's simply not necessary before puberty, so any parent who does do it isn't following any strict interpretation, that's just their choice and they'll have their individual reasons for deciding so.
If lots of parents began a new trend of "imposing" crucifixes on children, where previously it was not common, then yes, you could indeed say that. Less conspicuous perhaps, but even still. But that's just a speculative IF, and this thread is about what's happening in real life.0 -
If lots of parents began a new trend of "imposing" crucifixes on children, where previously it was not common, then yes, you could indeed say that. Less conspicuous perhaps, but even still. But that's just a speculative IF, and this thread is about what's happening in real life.
And my point was IF making young girls wear a headscarf was a "more fundamental view" of Islam, only then could you use it as an example of more fundamental views becoming mainstream. But it simply isn't - it's not a strict interpretation, the fundamentals are pretty clear and unambiguous on the topic. It's much akin to children taking part in Ramadan fasting (often with mini-fasts) before puberty when they don't have to.0 -
I think it made them stand out and probably makes them more likely to be bullied. And they are going to grow up thinking of themselves as sex objects, thinking of males as predators. Why not teach men to respect women and control themselves ?.
If they were to be bullied because of their headscarves, that is something that should be taken very seriously by society in general. It is certainly not a reason for them not to wear the scarves.
I agree with the other point you make, and it applies to Muslim women and girls of all ages. It is ridiculous that they submit to such misogyny. Mind you, more ridiculous that Muslim men don't see that in promoting this idea, they are admitting that they are so weak that are unable to control themselves in the presence of women.0 -
Defender OF Faith wrote: »o
This same massage is directed toward men,
"Tell the believing men to lower their gaze and be modest. That is purer for them. Allah is aware of what they do."
(24:29/30)
So why don't Muslim men cover their bodies in the same way women do?0 -
So why don't Muslim men cover their bodies in the same way women do?
To answer your question you first need to understand the actual meaning of the word Hijab along with the criteria for observing the Hijab.
The term hijab in Arabic literally means "a screen or a curtain" and it's an obligation on both men and women in Islam the criteria for each however does differ.
According to Qur’an and Sunnah there are basically six criteria for observing hijab:
1. Extent:
The first criterion is the extent of the body that should be covered. This is different for men and women. The extent of covering obligatory on the male is to cover the body at least from the navel to the knees. For women, the extent of covering obligatory is to cover the complete body except the face and the hands up to the wrist. If they wish to, they can cover even these parts of the body. Some scholars of Islam insist that the face and the hands are part of the obligatory extent of ‘hijab’.
All the remaining five criteria are the same for men and women.
2. The clothes worn should be loose and should not reveal the figure.
3. The clothes worn should not be transparent such that one can see through them.
4. The clothes worn should not be so glamorous as to attract the opposite sex.
5. The clothes worn should not resemble that of the opposite sex.
6. The clothes worn should not resemble that of the unbelievers i.e. they should not wear clothes that are specifically identities or symbols of the unbelievers’ religions.
In conclusion Muslim men also have their own Hijab to observe.0 -
Defender OF Faith wrote: »To answer your question you first need to understand the actual meaning of the word Hijab along with the criteria for observing the Hijab.
The term hijab in Arabic literally means "a screen or a curtain" and it's an obligation on both men and women in Islam the criteria for each however does differ.
According to Qur’an and Sunnah there are basically six criteria for observing hijab:
1. Extent:
The first criterion is the extent of the body that should be covered. This is different for men and women. The extent of covering obligatory on the male is to cover the body at least from the navel to the knees. For women, the extent of covering obligatory is to cover the complete body except the face and the hands up to the wrist. If they wish to, they can cover even these parts of the body. Some scholars of Islam insist that the face and the hands are part of the obligatory extent of ‘hijab’.
All the remaining five criteria are the same for men and women.
2. The clothes worn should be loose and should not reveal the figure.
3. The clothes worn should not be transparent such that one can see through them.
4. The clothes worn should not be so glamorous as to attract the opposite sex.
5. The clothes worn should not resemble that of the opposite sex.
6. The clothes worn should not resemble that of the unbelievers i.e. they should not wear clothes that are specifically identities or symbols of the unbelievers’ religions.
In conclusion Muslim men also have their own Hijab to observe.
Men only have to cover from the navel to the knee?Why don't men have to cover as much as women? A man's chest and shoulders can be pretty attractive to women.
If it's about resisting the attraction of the opposite sex, surely women can be as attracted to the parts of the male body not covered up as men are attracted by women's bodies?
And how come we regularly see men in tight jeans and tee-shirts being trailed along by their wives in full niqab? The clothes those men wear aren't lose, they certainly reveal the figure, and are designed to make the men look attractive.
It seems there's definitely one law for men and one for women in Islam.0 -
Men only have to cover from the navel to the knee?Why don't men have to cover as much as women? A man's chest and shoulders can be pretty attractive to women.
If it's about resisting the attraction of the opposite sex, surely women can be as attracted to the parts of the male body not covered up as men are attracted by women's bodies?It seems there's definitely one law for men and one for women in Islam.
It seems that your are working on a principle of absolute equality, you are also assuming that Islam is the only religion that calls for women to cover their body. Let me remind you that before the sexual revolution in the 1960's women dressed in a way very similar to the Muslim women today, simply without the veil in wide non-promiscuous clothing, that covered their entire body.
There is a Museum in Britain I cant exactly remember its name that have a display of women clothing from the early 1700 to today, and one thing is very clear that women clothing over time were getting tighter and tighter exposing more flesh.
This began happening in the 1940s when women clothes began to shorten reaching for the first time a level below the knee, then the sexual revolution in the 1960 came along resulting in clothes that expose the legs,thighs and breasts of women.
Even the swim suit for women had undergone such a change during the early 19 century a women was arrested in Australia for wearing a swim suit the exposed her arms which was seen at the time as shameful and dishonorable.
Then the Bikini came along a piece of clothing that never existed in the history of mankind. The word Bikini it self is interesting, as it's coined after a place called Bikini were nuclear tests were conducted hence it was called Bikini, because it was expected for it to be like a bomb in society since people will not accept it. Only 15 years later at the start of the Sexual R. did people began accepting it due to the heavy marketing & propaganda aimed at making young women wear this piece of cloth, such as Brian Hyland top seller song at the time Itsy Bitsy Teenie Weenie; about a 5 year old to shy to wear a Bikini for her to finally have an epiphany stripping away her shame and come in front of the clapping crowd wearing it.
Notice how I highlighted the word "Women" in those sentences I hope it's clear to you that those people are not interested in Men exposing their chest,shoulders or legs nothing so far have been aimed or marketing at making men clothes more revealing, all the attention have been directed toward you my sister because these people know well and clear that if you want to corrupt and change a society the best place to start is its women.
Islam however unlike Christianity is unaffected by these Social changes and revolutions, in Islam absolute equality between the Sexes is doing is like equating between two people of different abilities which is clearly injustice.
A women is pregnant 9 month of the year a man is not, every month she suffers through a period of menstruation during which her physiology,mood and hormones changes. Islam recognizes these difference and that's why in the Quran Allah says
And do not wish for that by which Allah has made some of you exceed others. For men is a share of what they have earned, and for women is a share of what they have earned. And ask Allah of his bounty. Indeed Allah is ever, of all things, Knowing.
(4;34)
There are matters a man will never exceed women in, the rights of the mother is 3 times to the rights of the father. In Islam we believe that paradise is under the feet of the mothers. in Islam the prophet told that if a man raise his daughter righteously he is promised paradise.
You will not find me a single institution in earth that gives a women a holiday during her menstrual cycle, however the greatest pillar of Islam specifically the 5 daily prayer are dropped from a women during her menstrual period.
And We have enjoined upon man [care] for his parents. His mother carried him, [increasing her] in weakness upon weakness, and his weaning is in two years. Be grateful to Me and to your parents; to Me is the [final] destination.
31;15-14
However when it comes toward religious duty and laws they are equal, a women will fast Ramadan just like a man,make pilgrimage just like him whatever righteous deed she do she will be rewarded no less then a man. a women is given inheritance in Islam in a way that brings most justice to both her and the man and is allowed and encouraged to seek an education, have a say in the running of society and vote just like the man, something the western women struggled to obtain until the last century.
"and how ever does righteous good deed, male of female, and is a true believer such will enter paradise and not the least injustice, even the size of a speck on the back of a date-stone will be done to them.
But if they endeavor to make you associate with Me that of which you have no knowledge, do not obey them but accompany them in [this] world with appropriate kindness and follow the way of those who turn back to Me [in repentance]. Then to Me will be your return, and I will inform you about what you used to do."4;26
Similarly the criteria of the Hijab, only 1 criteria as I mentioned differ between men and women and that's the first criterion,the extent of the body that should be covered, and as you can see women from the beginning of history were always dressed in a more covering way then men, so Islam did not come with something new saying that women should cover more then men.
Islam reinforced and introduced the most modest and Honorable dress code for both Men and Women, reconsigning that each is inherently different and play a different role in society and since Islam does not recognize absolute equality between men and women there are special instances where men are treated differently then women and women different then men in a way the will bring most justice to both.
Am not sure how regularly do you see this since tight jeans are Islamically Haram and hence he would be committing a sin by wearing them I my self agree with you and consider men who do this very hypocritical to be themselves wearing tight outfit while telling their wife to wear the Hijab.And how come we regularly see men in tight jeans and tee-shirts being trailed along by their wives in full niqab? The clothes those men wear aren't lose, they certainly reveal the figure, and are designed to make the men look attractive.0 -
Advertisement
-
Yes, I am starting from the principle of absolute equality. Why wouldn't I? Men and women are absolutely equal. Being different doesn't mean not being equal. What has happened in the past regarding women's clothing is irrelevant. This is the 21st century. But, as you said yourself, Islam doesn't regard men and women as equal...Defender OF Faith wrote: »It seems that your are working on a principle of absolute equality, you are also assuming that Islam is the only religion that calls for women to cover their body. Let me remind you that before the sexual revolution in the 1960's women dressed in a way very similar to the Muslim women today, simply without the veil in wide non-promiscuous clothing, that covered their entire body.
There is a Museum in Britain I cant exactly remember its name that have a display of women clothing from the early 1700 to today, and one thing is very clear that women clothing over time were getting tighter and tighter exposing more flesh.
This began happening in the 1940s when women clothes began to shorten reaching for the first time a level below the knee, then the sexual revolution in the 1960 came along resulting in clothes that expose the legs,thighs and breasts of women.
Even the swim suit for women had undergone such a change during the early 19 century a women was arrested in Australia for wearing a swim suit the exposed her arms which was seen at the time as shameful and dishonorable.
Then the Bikini came along a piece of clothing that never existed in the history of mankind. The word Bikini it self is interesting, as it's coined after a place called Bikini were nuclear tests were conducted hence it was called Bikini, because it was expected for it to be like a bomb in society since people will not accept it. Only 15 years later at the start of the Sexual R. did people began accepting it due to the heavy marketing & propaganda aimed at making young women wear this piece of cloth, such as Brian Hyland top seller song at the time Itsy Bitsy Teenie Weenie; about a 5 year old to shy to wear a Bikini for her to finally have an epiphany stripping away her shame and come in front of the clapping crowd wearing it.
Notice how I highlighted the word "Women" in those sentences I hope it's clear to you that those people are not interested in Men exposing their chest,shoulders or legs nothing so far have been aimed or marketing at making men clothes more revealing, all the attention have been directed toward you my sister because these people know well and clear that if you want to corrupt and change a society the best place to start is its women.
Islam however unlike Christianity is unaffected by these Social changes and revolutions, in Islam absolute equality between the Sexes is doing is like equating between two people of different abilities which is clearly injustice.
A women is pregnant 9 month of the year a man is not, every month she suffers through a period of menstruation during which her physiology,mood and hormones changes. Islam recognizes these difference and that's why in the Quran Allah says
And do not wish for that by which Allah has made some of you exceed others. For men is a share of what they have earned, and for women is a share of what they have earned. And ask Allah of his bounty. Indeed Allah is ever, of all things, Knowing.
(4;34)
There are matters a man will never exceed women in, the rights of the mother is 3 times to the rights of the father. In Islam we believe that paradise is under the feet of the mothers. in Islam the prophet told that if a man raise his daughter righteously he is promised paradise.
You will not find me a single institution in earth that gives a women a holiday during her menstrual cycle, however the greatest pillar of Islam specifically the 5 daily prayer are dropped from a women during her menstrual period.
And We have enjoined upon man [care] for his parents. His mother carried him, [increasing her] in weakness upon weakness, and his weaning is in two years. Be grateful to Me and to your parents; to Me is the [final] destination.
31;15-14
However when it comes toward religious duty they are equal a women will fast Ramadan just like a man,make pilgrimage just like him whatever righteous deed she do she will be rewarded no less then a man.
"and how ever does righteous good deed, male of female, and is a true believer such will enter paradise and not the least injustice, even the size of a speck on the back of a date-stone will be done to them.
But if they endeavor to make you associate with Me that of which you have no knowledge, do not obey them but accompany them in [this] world with appropriate kindness and follow the way of those who turn back to Me [in repentance]. Then to Me will be your return, and I will inform you about what you used to do."4;26
Similarly the criteria of the Hijab, only 1 criteria as I mentioned differ between men and women and that's the first criterion,the extent of the body that should be covered, and as you can see women from the beginning of history were always dressed in a more covering way then men so Islam did not come with something new saying that women should cover more then men, Islam reinforced and introduced the most modest and Honorable dress code for both Men and Women reconsigning that each is inherently different and play a different role in society and as I mention earlier since Islam does not recognize absolute equality between men and women there are instances where men are treated differently then women and women different then men in a way the will bring most justice to both.
Am not sure how regularly do you see this since tight jeans are Islamically Haram and hence he would be committing a sin by wearing them I my self agree with you and consider men who do this very hypocritical to be themselves wearing tight outfit while telling their wife to wear the Hijab.
I am well aware that Islam is not the only religion that differentiates between men and women in this way. We are not talking about those other religions; we are talking about Islam. I would say exactly the same thing about fundamentalist Christians like the Amish, who insist on a much stricter covering for women than for men.
I regularly see Muslim men dressed this way. In fact I saw it just today (not a tee shirt, obviously) in the supermarket. A man in a close fitting pair of trousers and a jacket, followed by a woman in hijab (not niquab, but a long, ankle length coat and her hair fully covered with a scarf). I would respect the men if they covered themselves in the same way as the women, but I have little respect for people who expect other people to dress in a way they are not prepared to dress. Ditto for Amish men whose idea of modest dressing is wearing a hat, while their women wear long skirts and scarves.0
This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement