IAAF induct Marita Koch into IAAF Hall of Fame

Chivito550

I saw Tim Hutchings ranting on his Twitter but he didn't mention names, so thought I'd see what the fuss was about.

Believe it or not, the IAAF have decided to induct a known drug cheat, from on of the worst doping regimes ever seen, into its Hall of Fame. Marita Koch holds the 400m WR with an offensive 47.60. Nearly 30 years on, with all the advancements in training, nutrition, equipment etc, the best women in the world are just about running within 2 seconds of this farcical mark.

Here's the full list of inductees for 2014. Koch isn't the only one who shouldn't be here:

Valeriy Brumel
Glenn Davis
Heike Drechsler
Hicham El Guerrouj
Marita Koch
Robert Korzeniowski
Janis Lusis
Bob Mathias
Wilma Rudolph
Shirley Strickland de la Hunty
Lasse Viren
Cornelius Warmerdam

http://www.iaaf.org/news/iaaf-news/hall-of-fame-2014-inductees

Enduro

FFS!! Literally a load of Koch.

Chivito550

Ever seen an athlete in lane 2 eat up the stagger on the whole field at the 200m mark of a 400m race? Well now you have!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OD4OUTXvtRU

average_runner

Chivito550 wrote: »

I saw Tim Hutchings ranting on his Twitter but he didn't mention names, so thought I'd see what the fuss was about.

Believe it or not, the IAAF have decided to induct a known drug cheat, from on of the worst doping regimes ever seen, into its Hall of Fame. Marita Koch holds the 400m WR with an offensive 47.60. Nearly 30 years on, with all the advancements in training, nutrition, equipment etc, the best women in the world are just about running within 2 seconds of this farcical mark.

Here's the full list of inductees for 2014. Koch isn't the only one who shouldn't be here:

Valeriy Brumel
Glenn Davis
Heike Drechsler
Hicham El Guerrouj
Marita Koch
Robert Korzeniowski
Janis Lusis
Bob Mathias
Wilma Rudolph
Shirley Strickland de la Hunty
Lasse Viren
Cornelius Warmerdam

http://www.iaaf.org/news/iaaf-news/hall-of-fame-2014-inductees

Was she ever caught? Are we now saying anyone a second faster than the best today are drug cheats?

Freeman got within a second of it, Perez within .50 of it!

Chivito550

average_runner wrote: »

Was she ever caught? Are we now saying anyone a second faster than the best today are drug cheats?

Freeman got within a second of it, Perez within .50 of it!

Documentation was discovered after the fall of the GDR which detailed the doping programmes of the athletes. There's even a letter written by Koch complaining that another athlete was being given more than her.

average_runner

Chivito550 wrote: »

Documentation was discovered after the fall of the GDR which detailed the doping programmes of the athletes. There's even a letter written by Koch complaining that another athlete was being given more than her.

Freeman ran 48.63 which is 1.03 seconds, not within 0.5, and on a very fast track. She never broke 49 before or after.

Never said Freeman was within .50 secs, read it again

Chivito550

average_runner wrote: »

Never said Freeman was within .50 secs, read it again

Damn your too fast with the tying. Already amended.

menoscemo

Chivito550 wrote: »

Documentation was discovered after the fall of the GDR which detailed the doping programmes of the athletes. There's even a letter written by Koch complaining that another athlete was being given more than her.

Afaik, Heike Drechsler also admitted doping under the East german regime although claims to have been clean after the fall of the Berlin Wall?

Chivito550

menoscemo wrote: »

Afaik, Heike Drechsler also admitted doping under the East german regime although claims to have been clean after the fall of the Berlin Wall?

I'd believe she was clean after the fall of the wall as she pretty much became only a long jumper after that and her distances were well down on her 80s marks, and was one of the very few GDR athletes who continued on after unification. But she would still have had long term benefits from the doping.

johnruns

Chivito550 wrote: »

Ever seen an athlete in lane 2 eat up the stagger on the whole field at the 200m mark of a 400m race? Well now you have!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OD4OUTXvtRU

Holy fook what was she taking???

shels4ever

Chivito550 wrote: »

Ever seen an athlete in lane 2 eat up the stagger on the whole field at the 200m mark of a 400m race? Well now you have!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OD4OUTXvtRU

Yep in women terms the only performance that has come near that in years would be Pauls R Marathon record. Both will stand for a long long time.
In 400m running even MJ's world record performance looks average and he destroyed a class field.

walshb

Is MJs WR over 400 comparable to Koch's? Is it as astonishing? Is the time gap (4.42 secs) believable between their records?

Pherekydes

walshb wrote: »

Is MJs WR over 400 comparable to Koch's? Is it as astonishing? Is the time gap (4.42 secs) believable between their records?

Johnson's record is worth 1310 pts on the scoring tables; Koch's is worth 1304.

By comparison, Bolt's records are worth 1352 and 1351 and Radcliffe's is worth 1281 pts.

Chivito550

walshb wrote: »

Is MJs WR over 400 comparable to Koch's? Is it as astonishing? Is the time gap (4.42 secs) believable between their records?

The Olympics and Worlds these days are won in around 49.50. That's thats 1.04 times the WR. Using that multiple against MJs record would give 44.90, a time which would borderline make a final and no more.

So no, the times are not comparable.

Chivito550

Pherekydes wrote: »

Johnson's record is worth 1310 pts on the scoring tables; Koch's is worth 1304.

By comparison, Bolt's records are worth 1352 and 1351 and Radcliffe's is worth 1281 pts.

Read the introduction to the tables. He states clearly that they are separate lists and you can't use them to compare men to women.

walshb

Pherekydes wrote: »

Johnson's record is worth 1310 pts on the scoring tables; Koch's is worth 1304.

By comparison, Bolt's records are worth 1352 and 1351 and Radcliffe's is worth 1281 pts.

Thanks

So, her record is not beyond belief if we use these metrics?

Chivito550

walshb wrote: »

Thanks

So, her record is not beyond belief if we use these metrics?

Again, these tables are separate. They are not intended to be compared. Take a men's 4:59 mile and compare to the women's tables if you don't believe me! My other post shows that these 2 WRs are not comparable.

walshb

Is a man running 400 metres in 43.18 seconds less amazing or more amazing or equal to a woman running 400 metres in 47.6?

Probably require some detailed research and a bit of mathematics.

Chivito550

walshb wrote: »

Is a man running 400 metres in 43.18 seconds less amazing or more amazing or equal to a woman running 400 metres in 47.6?

Probably require some detailed research and a bit of mathematics.

I feel like I'm talking to a beagle here. I'll try again. 47.60 is about 1.90 seconds faster than what wins world and Olympic titles now. 43.18 is about 0.55 faster than what Kirani James and LaShawn Merritt run. If you follow the sport like you say you do then you shouldn't need to ask this question. Koch's run is so far out there. Also lets not forget that it was in 1985, a full 14 years ahead of Johnson.

Anyway, it's known fact that Koch was on drugs.

walshb

Chivito550 wrote: »

I feel like I'm talking to a beagle here. I'll try again. 47.60 is about 1.90 seconds faster than what wins world and Olympic titles now. 43.18 is about 0.55 faster than what Kirani James and LaShawn Merritt run. If you follow the sport like you say you do then you shouldn't need to ask this question. Koch's run is so far out there. Also lets not forget that it was in 1985, a full 13 years ahead of Johnson.

Anyway, it's known fact that Koch was on drugs.

Calm down. No need to be so hostile. Ramming your views down others' throats. I'm out.

average_runner

walshb wrote: »

Calm down. No need to be so hostile. Ramming your views down others' throats. I'm out.

In fairness he was trying to explain it to you.

walshb

average_runner wrote: »

In fairness he was try to explain it to you.

I knew what he was trying to say. I asked a straightforward question. I never mentioned worlds/Olympics times and differneces etc etc.

Simple: What is more impressive. A man running 400m in 43.18 or a woman running it in 47.6. That's all I asked. I just thought that I'd get a few replies and suggestions; but if it's an open and shut case, as in 47.6 is clearly the more dominant run, as he has made out, then that's fine. I didn't realise that it was so clear cut.

Chivito550

walshb wrote: »

I knew what he was trying to say. I asked a straightforward question. I never mentioned worlds/Olympics etc etc.

Simple: What is more impressive. A man running 400m in 43.18 or a woman running it in 47.6. That's all I asked. I just thought that I'd get a few replies and suggestions; but if it's an open and shut case, as in 47.6 is clearly the more dominant run, as he has made out, then that's fine.

I replied 3 times to your question. You asked the question again after my first 2 replies, with a load of nonsense about needing mathematics to figure it out, when I had already explained to you with basic maths. Only on my third attempt did you get it. Your posts are tiresome.

GreeBo

walshb wrote: »

I knew what he was trying to say. I asked a straightforward question. I never mentioned worlds/Olympics times and differneces etc etc.

Simple: What is more impressive. A man running 400m in 43.18 or a woman running it in 47.6. That's all I asked. I just thought that I'd get a few replies and suggestions; but if it's an open and shut case, as in 47.6 is clearly the more dominant run, as he has made out, then that's fine. I didn't realise that it was so clear cut.

The only way you answer the question is by comparing the results of the rest of the field for each sex, otherwise you are asking which is better an apple or a hammer?

walshb

GreeBo wrote: »

The only way you answer the question is by comparing the results of the rest of the field for each sex, otherwise you are asking which is better an apple or a hammer?

If their times raced each other then Marita would be probably 40-45 metres behind MJ. I wonder is this comparable across other records and distances. Interesting.

Chivito550

walshb wrote: »

If their times raced each other then Marita would be probably 40-45 metres behind MJ. I wonder is this comparable across other records and distances. Interesting.

37m behind if pace is consistent throughout the 400m. But this is impossible as everybody slows down in the closing stages and each person covers less metres per second than earlier in the race, so I would guess that Koch would be 31-32m down on MJ.

DarByrne1980

walshb wrote: »

If their times raced each other then Marita would be probably 40-45 metres behind MJ. I wonder is this comparable across other records and distances. Interesting.

dude koch was on so much gear id be amazed if she did not have a cock in her pants today i would not even try to make comparable across records

walshb

DarByrne1980 wrote: »

dude koch was on so much gear id be amazed if she did not have a cock in her pants today i would not even try to make comparable across records

I am not saying she wasn't on drugs. I was just asking questions. Trying to get a feel for what times and records appear to be unattainable, and what records appear to be fair and attainable.

rainbow kirby

walshb wrote: »

Trying to get a feel for what times and records appear to be unattainable,

Pretty much the entire women's track recordbook apart from the 3,000m steeplechase :pac:

walshb

rainbow kirby wrote: »

Pretty much the entire women's track recordbook apart from the 3,000m steeplechase :pac:

Flo Jo's 100 meters is probably the stand out record.

Chivito550

walshb wrote: »

Flo Jo's 100 meters is probably the stand out record.

It's no more standout than 3:50 for 1500m or 8:06 for 3000m. Flojo is famous while Qu Junxia and Wang Junxia are not, hence why you think it's a standout record. Koch'a record is the most unattainable IMO. Flojos 100 time was wind assisted but the measurement mysteriously read 0.0. Her 200m of 21.34 is another stupid record. Felix is the greatest 200m runner we've ever seen and her best is only 21.69.

YFlyer

The Soviet in lane one didn't have the same drugs.

Pherekydes

rainbow kirby wrote: »

Pretty much the entire women's track recordbook apart from the 3,000m steeplechase :pac:

And the 2000m.

Chivito550

Pherekydes wrote: »

And the 2000m.

The 100m hurdles and 400 hurdles records are within reach also.