Donna Hartnett's letter to the Indo, rejecting taxation & taking back her family

Shiraz 4.99

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B2JNpHEIUAAliIT.jpg

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/heartbreaking-letter-by-working-mum-captures-mood-of-nation-30738344.html

No one will ever stand over my grave and say "wasn't she great at paying her water tax" but it will be at that exact moment that my children will evaluate the quality of the years I gave them.



The legacy of Bertie Ahern and Brian Cowen has resulted in our two children being raised in childcare centres like hens.
Meanwhile, we work, breaking our necks and our children's hearts trying to keep up with tax after tax, with nothing left by the end of the month. We never financially over extended ourselves or left a bill unpaid, but still my two very young children are out of their home every day for longer hours than the average industrial worker ... as we work to meet another tax on our income.
Our reasons for not protesting before were exhaustion, anxiety, fear and not a minute to spare, but this is where it ends.
As the Irish Government has chosen to protect those responsible for the financial crash and has seen many pensioned off, I'm choosing to protect my children.
To do this, I will do whatever it takes to give my children back their childhood ... they will be at home, collected from school by me, and enjoy the security of a home life that should be an option afforded to every child. This will obviously mean a reduction to our income, resulting in overdue bills and unpaid taxes but that stress will be a holiday compared to the exhausting days we currently endure, dragging the children from their beds at 6.30am, starting and ending the day in a house filled with children's tears of frustration and confusion as we pay for others' greed.
So you see, this Government has pushed an exhausted family one step too far. Let's see who picks up the tab in the long run, Mr Kenny.
Donna Hartnett
Co Cork

Normally I'd be unfeeling & ignore the emotive argument.
I'd argue that nobody made you buy that overpriced home on a 35 year mortgage & nobody made you have children when you knew 2 incomes were required to service all the associated costs, but today will not be one of those times.

Our parents generation could always survive on the fathers income, service the mortgage, raise 4 or 5 kids, have a holiday every year & run a family car.
They even put up with 18% interest rates & still functioned on the single income.
Somewhere along the way the human aspect has been deprioritized in favour of maximum income potential, the human instinct to have a family has been discouraged & depressed by career advancement & mortgage calculators.

I'm one of the squeezed middle too & I salute this lady for her bravery & her honesty.
I'm delighted she had her epiphany while her kids were so young
There's a silent majority of us who don't have time to protest or choose not to as our cause will be most likely hijacked by Shinners or left wing extremists.
This letter has given them a collective focus & hopefully the encouragement to take similar steps.

whiskeyman

She still had money for a stamp apparently.

Rich b*tch.

Beano

Shiraz 4.99 wrote: »

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B2JNpHEIUAAliIT.jpg


Our parents generation could always survive on the fathers income, service the mortgage, raise 4 or 5 kids, have a holiday every year & run a family car.

you must be from a different generation to me. I dont remember a family car and a holiday every year.

Boskowski

And yet we laugh and sneer at the few politicians who actually oppose the neo liberal rat race to the bottom and our only hope seems to be for the economy to 'pick up' again.

smash

Shiraz 4.99 wrote: »

Our parents generation could always survive on the fathers income, service the mortgage, raise 4 or 5 kids, have a holiday every year & run a family car. They even put up with 18% interest rates & still functioned on the single income.

And this is why my blood boils when people say the recession in the 80's was worse. I'd much rather pay 18% interest on a mortgage that amounts to a years wages than what we've had to go through and are still going through now. The cost of living in Ireland is gone out of control!

She's taking a brave step losing a household income, but then they'll be making money back through not paying childcare fees. They probably wont be much worse off in reality.

Drexel

Beano wrote: »

you must be from a different generation to me. I dont remember a family car and a holiday every year.

More like the family banger and a week in the grannies house!

SEPT 23 1989

Shiraz 4.99 wrote: »

Our parents generation could always survive on the fathers income, service the mortgage, raise 4 or 5 kids, have a holiday every year & run a family car.
They even put up with 18% interest rates & still functioned on the single income.
Somewhere along the way the human aspect has been deprioritized in favour of maximum income potential, the human instinct to have a family has been discouraged & depressed by career advancement & mortgage calculators.

.

Women really were sold a pup,yes go out and have careers as well as bringing up children but the bankers and the financiers copped on to this and just jacked up the prices so that extra income just evaporated

Barely There

The legacy of Bertie Ahern and Brian Cowen has resulted in our two children being raised in childcare centres like hens.

Why?

Let me guess - Bertie and Brian made her pay €400k for a 3 bed semi in the outer suburbs of Cork?

Stargate

Shiraz 4.99 wrote: »

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B2JNpHEIUAAliIT.jpg

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/heartbreaking-letter-by-working-mum-captures-mood-of-nation-30738344.html

Video
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/our-lives-became-a-prison-a-prison-for-our-jobs-our-home-this-tax-system-irish-mothers-frustration-strikes-a-chord-30737850.html

munchkin_utd

smash wrote: »

And this is why my blood boils when people say the recession in the 80's was worse. I'd much rather pay 18% interest on a mortgage that amounts to a years wages than what we've had to go through and are still going through now. The cost of living in Ireland is gone out of control!

She's taking a brave step losing a household income, but then they'll be making money back through not paying childcare fees. They probably wont be much worse off in reality.

Exactly
Irish income related taxes are in fact really really low and the real problem is "cost of living", but even then, Irelands not that bad.
VAT and fuel is in line with the rest of europe, and groceries are not much out of kilter with other countries.

What IS bad is if youre stuck with a boom time mortgage and unsubsidised childcare, like yer wan in the indo.
But thats notthing to do with taxes(or cost of living). Its certain very high expenses that are the problem.

But to blame that on taxes is wrong.
Income taxes in Ireland cant go much lower than the low level they are already at.
And the 17grand tax free allowance (tax threshold) cant be any more generous.
Its twice the UK, and about 4times what you'd get in Germany.

smash

Barely There wrote: »

Why?

Let me guess - Bertie and Brian made her pay €400k for a 3 bed semi in the outer suburbs of Cork?

Clearly you didn't read the article because she stated that they never financially over extended themselves. Bertie and Brian left the country in a debt that our grandchildren will still be paying off!

munchkin_utd wrote: »

Irish income related taxes are in fact really really low and the real problem is "cost of living", but even then, Irelands not that bad.

Lets not forget the stealth taxes now....

newport2

Shiraz 4.99 wrote: »

Our parents generation could always survive on the fathers income, service the mortgage, raise 4 or 5 kids, have a holiday every year & run a family car.
They even put up with 18% interest rates & still functioned on the single income.

This isn't true. It's just that the ones who couldn't afford it did not have a medium to voice the fact they didn't, people today do. I think there was also a different perception of what living on hard times in the 80's was. People in general had less back then, and like most things, that's relative.

My Dad had a job, I got a holiday in a caravan in Wexford every year and we had a car, I was one of the luckier ones. Not all my mates had this. I still got hand-me-down clothes, leftover food and out to the cinema was a birthday treat. We never wanted for anything, but transplant my family into today's world and we'd probably be considered to be living on the breadline. Different times.

The Backwards Man

smash wrote: »

Clearly you didn't read the article because she stated that they never financially over extended themselves. Bertie and Brian left the country in a debt that our grandchildren will still be paying off!

Dunno about you, but I would consider living month to month as overextending myself.

Beano

newport2 wrote: »

This isn't true. It's just that the ones who couldn't afford it did not have a medium to voice the fact they didn't, people today do. I think there was also a different perception of what living on hard times in the 80's was. People in general had less back then, and like most things, that's relative.

My Dad had a job, I got a holiday in a caravan in Wexford every year and we had a car, I was one of the luckier ones. Not all my mates had this. I still got hand-me-down clothes, leftover food and out to the cinema was a birthday treat. We never wanted for anything, but transplant my family into today's world and we'd probably be considered to be living on the breadline. Different times.

we used to dream o' caravan in wexford.

The_Captain

Cue mouth-breathers shrieking that the country is fine and everywhere else has it worse and she's just lazy

smash

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Dunno about you, but I would consider living month to month as overextending myself.

Like a lot of people, they bought what they could afford but now can't afford because of lower incomes, rising taxes and a cost of living curve that's gone through the roof.

mrsbyrne

We had a picture on the wall of a caravan in Wexford and we looked at it for a week in July.

The Backwards Man

mrsbyrne wrote: »

We had a picture on the wall of a caravan in Wexford and we looked at it for a week in July.

At least you had a wall. . .

Shiraz 4.99

Barely There wrote: »

Why?

Let me guess - Bertie and Brian made her pay €400k for a 3 bed semi in the outer suburbs of Cork?

That's right, why didn't she buy the house down the street on sale for €200k . . . be honest, you weren't in a house buying position in the early noughties were you.
She bought for 400k cause everything was 400k.

ThunbergsAreGo

smash wrote: »

Clearly you didn't read the article because she stated that they never financially over extended themselves. Bertie and Brian left the country in a debt that our grandchildren will still be paying off!



Lets not forget the stealth taxes now....

If they didnt over extend themselves why is she writing this letter? I find the letter a bit confusing, it seems to be portrayed as a dig at the Irish Government but instead it reads as a rally against having a double income family and instead spending more time with your children.

For example they were living month to month before "the Irish Government has chosen to protect those responsible for the financial crash"

anncoates

Barely There wrote: »

Why?

Let me guess - Bertie and Brian made her pay €400k for a 3 bed semi in the outer suburbs of Cork?

More like the complete absence of affordable childcare to allow parents to go out and actually work in the economy and generate taxes but do carry on with the usual smug carping about house prices.

NIMAN

If she needed to take out a 35yr mortgage when both of them were working, I'd say they were over-extending themselves.

Every time I read stories like this, I always wonder if we are hearing the full story or just the bits she wants us to hear. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that she was telling people back in 06 how much her house was worth and how she was looking at Bulgarian property.

At least she is getting her 15mins of fame.

Davarus Walrus

I want lots of world class services, but I don't want to pay for them. The rich should. Rich people are those who make more than me.

Spudmonkey

mrsbyrne wrote: »

We had a picture on the wall of a caravan in Wexford and we looked at it for a week in July.

And weren't you lucky, we had to go around to the neighbours to look at their picture of a caravan.

smoking_kills

Spudmonkey wrote: »

And weren't you lucky, we had to go around to the neighbours to look at their picture of a caravan.

We had to look at a photo of the picture in the neighbours.

daUbiq

smash wrote: »

And this is why my blood boils when people say the recession in the 80's was worse. I'd much rather pay 18% interest on a mortgage that amounts to a years wages than what we've had to go through and are still going through now. The cost of living in Ireland is gone out of control!

She's taking a brave step losing a household income, but then they'll be making money back through not paying childcare fees. They probably wont be much worse off in reality.

I'm presuming you didn't live through the eighties?

If your parents were unemployed in the eighties (most peoples mother didn't work), they were significantly less well off than similarly unemployed or disadvantaged people now. I was born in in the mid seventies and lived through the eighties with my father unemployed for some time... My parents struggled to feed us, clothe us and keep our home in good shape. We did not have a car. We never had the latest toys and very rarely went on holidays. Most of my clothes were hand downs from my cousins.. compare and contrast with disadvantaged families today with their large flat screen TV, regular holidays, sky TV, games consoles, car, etc'.. Am I imagining this?

I will say that my childhood, even though we were a poor family was generally very happy because our relatives and our neighbors helped out, everyone helped each other... my parents ensured we never went hungry and always went to school. Modern Ireland strikes me as a very different place - people are obsessed with owning things, their perceived social status and keeping up with the Joneses. Many people over extended themselves in the last decade due to greed and financial idiocy and I'm sick of hearing people complain about how bad it is now. I reckon it was worse then, than now.

I agree with the lady above staying at home with her kids - gotta be best for her kids if one parent is at home parenting.

The Moldy Gowl

Ah jaysus. You can't compare today's world to that of the 80s.

It's so moronic and and stupid.

smash

naughtb4 wrote: »

If they didnt over extend themselves why is she writing this letter? I find the letter a bit confusing, it seems to be portrayed as a dig at the Irish Government but instead it reads as a rally against having a double income family and instead spending more time with your children

Renting is bloody expensive and in order to buy a house they needed 2 incomes. In order to work they needed childcare. They both worked and they paid childcare and they could afford it. Now the cost of living has increased, taxes have risen and wages have fallen. That's not their fault.

I guess it's at the point now where she's working to live and that's it. She's coasting through life just to pay bills and her family is suffering. She's had enough so she's leaving work to provide her children with the care and attention they deserve.

Caliden

Here come the begrudgers....

"oh she over extended herself..." "why did they buy it when they couldn't afford it..."

All from people who are most likely renting or purchased recently when house prices were deflated.


She isn't one of these people who refused to pay her mortgage and skip bills. She took responsibility for her choices and up until now she did nothing about it.

Like many others in similar positions to her family, enough is enough.


Some people replying here are on some seriously high horses and need to have some bloody compassion for their fellow man. How can you sleep at night being so self-centered?

You need to open your eyes to realise that while you might not be affected right now, your time will come and then you'll be screaming for support.

The message conveyed in this quote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_...

applies here. Just because it doesn't affected you directly doesn't mean you should do nothing about it. Think about 20/40/60 years down the line and stop focusing on the next 5-10.

Wibbs

newport2 wrote: »

This isn't true. It's just that the ones who couldn't afford it did not have a medium to voice the fact they didn't, people today do. I think there was also a different perception of what living on hard times in the 80's was. People in general had less back then, and like most things, that's relative.

I got a holiday in a caravan in Wexford every year and we had a car, I was one of the luckier ones. Not all my mates had this. I still got hand-me-down clothes, leftover food and out to the cinema was a birthday treat. We never wanted for anything, but transplant my family into today's world and we'd probably be considered to be living on the breadline. Different times.

I'd agree with this NP and I and my peers would have been the lucky ones at the higher middle end, foreign holidays and such. Expectations were much lower across the board even among that bracket(and higher).

We had less "stuff", fewer consumer items in general. It was far less a high turnover consumer society of big money items. Just look at our IT gear. Big tellies, satellite TV, PC's being upgraded regularly, phones costing hundreds of quid, playstations and the like. Getting into debt was harder too, not impossible but harder. Few had credit cards and back then with most cards you had to clear them monthly. Hire purchase and credit union loans were about the order of things and the biggest single debt for the majority was a mortgage on a house that was cheaper in the first place allowing for wages and inflation. Even among my peers whose folks usually had more breathing room cash, secondhand cars were the order of the day more than not and among the new car buyers the spec and price was generally much lower than today. Mercs and Beemers were rare to see as family cars, Fords, Opels, later on the Japanese stuff and the like were the average. Two car families were rarer too. Hell I knew enough people without central heating and a couple without a home phone.

As you say NP different times. Or put it another way, imagine a hypothetical family paying off a prebubble mortgage, a low price secondhand car that they saved up for, no credit cards, holidays with rellies in the country and remove all post 1990 consumer gadgets and you'd see a big difference in how much financial breathing room they'd have.

mrsbyrne

smoking_kills wrote: »

We had to look at a photo of the picture in the neighbours.

Yes but ye had shoes. We were shoeless, looking at that picture on the wall.

ThunbergsAreGo

smash wrote: »

Renting is bloody expensive and in order to buy a house they needed 2 incomes. In order to work they needed childcare. They both worked and they paid childcare and they could afford it. Now the cost of living has increased, taxes have risen and wages have fallen. That's not their fault.

I guess it's at the point now where she's working to live and that's it. She's coasting through life just to pay bills and her family is suffering. She's had enough so she's leaving work to provide her children with the care and attention they deserve.

So this is about her saying one parent shouldnt work so she can "provide her children with the care and attention they deserve"?

iDave

So as usual we have people picking holes in the financially stricken civilians argument, for what purpose, to prove the politian's right?

Larbre34

Give me 18% on 18,000 over 4.45% on 400,000 any day.

Anyone who suggests this responsible woman or others like her are guilty of avarice to aspire to own a house and bear a couple of children to love and carry on their family, is a troll.

pookiesboo

smoking_kills wrote: »

We had to look at a photo of the picture in the neighbours.

at least your neighbours photo was in colour. Our neighbours photo of wexford was in black and white

Grayson

daUbiq wrote: »

I'm presuming you didn't live through the eighties?

If your parents were unemployed in the eighties (most peoples mother didn't work), they were significantly less well off than similarly unemployed or disadvantaged people now. I was born in in the mid seventies and lived through the eighties with my father unemployed for some time... My parents struggled to feed us, clothe us and keep our home in good shape. We did not have a car. We never had the latest toys and very rarely went on holidays. Most of my clothes were hand downs from my cousins.. compare and contrast with disadvantaged families today with their large flat screen TV, regular holidays, sky TV, games consoles, car, etc'.. Am I imagining this?

Same here. One holiday to a caravan that a friend of my parents owned. that was the only holiday i had till I has 16. At the same time I grew up with at least one of my parents working abroad, generally in the UK because of the lack of work here.

We did have a car though. Thanks to living in the middle of the country we had to. It was always some battered old banger which would probably never pass a NCT.

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Women really were sold a pup,yes go out an have careers as well as bringing up children but the bankers and the financiers copped on to this and just jacked up the prices so that extra income just evaporated

Interests rates were low during the boom and banks had very little control of house prices. they are to blame for lessening control on certain things, but realistically it was due to a lack of oversight from government. banks just took advantage of a situation the government created. And to be fair, if any bank didn't it was going to lose a feck load of business.

Remember in 2007 the government had 60% of it's tax come from the construction industry. When someone pointed out how dangerous that was, especially since a downturn was likely Bertie said they should commit suicide.

FF are a shower of cnuts and I can't see how anyone can ever consider voting for them again.

ThunbergsAreGo

Larbre34 wrote: »

Give me 18% on 18,000 over 4.45% on 400,000 any day.

I was talking to my parents on this the other day

"We had to pay 18%"
"Poor you"
"But the house was 21,000"
"Ye feckers"

Percentage of average income is a better way to look at things

batman_oh

Caliden wrote: »

Here come the begrudgers....

"oh she over extended herself..." "why did they buy it when they couldn't afford it..."

All from people who are most likely renting or purchased recently when house prices were deflated.


She isn't one of these people who refused to pay her mortgage and skip bills. She took responsibility for her choices and up until now she did nothing about it.

Like many others in similar positions to her family, enough is enough.


Some people replying here are on some seriously high horses and need to have some bloody compassion for their fellow man. How can you sleep at night being so self-centered?

You need to open your eyes to realise that while you might not be affected right now, your time will come and then you'll be screaming for support.

The message conveyed in this quote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_...

applies here. Just because it doesn't affected you directly doesn't mean you should do nothing about it. Think about 20/40/60 years down the line and stop focusing on the next 5-10.

Begrudgers? The default word that is used for nonsense arguments all over Ireland!

Caliden

Grayson wrote: »

Remember in 2007 the government had 60% of it's tax come from the construction industry. When someone pointed out how dangerous that was, especially since a downturn was likely Bertie said they should commit suicide.

FF are a shower of cnuts and I can't see how anyone can ever consider voting for them again.

Well it's seems FG are no better and I predict the next bunch will be the same.

If politicians pay was based on GDP we'd have a fighting chance but when they're getting paid to keep their seat they will say whatever it takes and favour the voters with the most power.

batman_oh wrote: »

Begrudgers? The default word that is used for nonsense arguments all over Ireland!

She's middle class with 2 kids and a house paying her bills and yet people think she's some sort of free loader.

By any standards she has a normal family and yet people like you are ignoring her message.


We're all bloody sick and tired of it.

Shiraz 4.99

Larbre34 wrote: »

Give me 18% on 18,000 over 4.45% on 400,000 any day.

Anyone who suggests this responsible woman or others like her are guilty of avarice to aspire to own a house and bear a couple of children to love and carry on their family, is a troll.

Everything about this post depends on what the word "avarice" means.
I have already thanked it cause I think we're on the same wavelength.

smash

daUbiq wrote: »

I'm presuming you didn't live through the eighties?

I did live through the 80's. My parents weren't unemployed but I knew a lot of people who's were. I still stand by the argument that you can not compare today's world to back then. Flat screen tv's and all that other non sense that's spouted is just that.. non sense. It's all very cheap these days so it's not like people are spending a fortune on it.

Any working class person in this day and age who doesn't live in a council house is going to be pushing it financially. Rents are higher than mortgages and mortgages are hard to get because deposits are hard to save. If a couple renting in Dublin in their early 20's earning 70k between them wanted a house and kids, it's almost impossible to achieve.

Average house, say 350k means a deposit of 35k. That's a full years salary before tax for one person. If they're spending 1k a month on rent (which is low) then how are they supposed to even save a deposit? If they did save it and wanted kids, childcare is around 1k a month on top of their mortgage. At this point, renting or paying a mortgage becomes very stressful. Is the only option to not have children?

Spudmonkey

smoking_kills wrote: »

We had to look at a photo of the picture in the neighbours.

*shakes head* There's always someone worse off than yourself!

Shiraz 4.99

pookiesboo wrote: »

at least your neighbours photo was in colour. Our neighbours photo of wexford was in black and white

Ooooo look at you with your photo, all we had was a pencil drawing of a beach, I say a drawing, more a wavey line in the middle of a page, never knew if it was upsidedown.

mikemac1

Shiraz 4.99 wrote: »

Our parents generation could always survive on the fathers income, service the mortgage, raise 4 or 5 kids, have a holiday every year & run a family car.

Holidays? There was nobody bagging cheap deals and going to Spain in the 80's OP.

A day out to Leisureland in Salthill or a few days in a caravan park would be a good holiday to a lot of Irish families. And a lot didn't even have that. Or a car. Don't you remember thumbing for lifts at the local crossroads? I don't see that anymore

hfallada

Im sorry but those forgot what Ireland like pre-2000? There was mass emigration in the 1950s, we had a bit of growth 1960-1973. Then from 1973 to mid 1990s, we had mass emigration, unemployment around 18% and Debt to GDP peaked at 129% in 1987. Even now our unemployment is 11% and we have the fastest growing economy in Europe

I dont know were this sense entitlement comes from. But had nothing until the mid 1990s. Unless we cut the deficit, the only thing that this generation is leaving for the next is a **** ton of debt.

anncoates

To be fair, only the wealthy are immune from the inherent financial risk of home ownership, raising a family etc. It's hard to be completely prepared for any number of variables like ill health, economic changes, and arbitrary taxes. If everybody were prudent to that maniacal degree, hardly anybody would buy a house or have children.

Personally I don't mind water charges per se (although as usual, I disagree with the incompetence and cronyism of the setup as ever) and I actually agree that the Irish electorate love the strange concept of low income taxes yet excellent services.

I'd willingly pay higher direct taxes for guaranteed better services like transport, health subsidized childcare etc but what we get here is a punishing cost of living coupled with a raft of arbitrary taxes and charges that see middle earners as an endless piggy bank to be raided in order to plug up the wasteful and incompetent economic management of the country.

Grayson

smash wrote: »

Renting is bloody expensive and in order to buy a house they needed 2 incomes. In order to work they needed childcare. They both worked and they paid childcare and they could afford it. Now the cost of living has increased, taxes have risen and wages have fallen. That's not their fault.

I guess it's at the point now where she's working to live and that's it. She's coasting through life just to pay bills and her family is suffering. She's had enough so she's leaving work to provide her children with the care and attention they deserve.

they got a mortgage they thought they could afford. A brief look at history will show the last 100 years littered with depressions, recessions and house market collapses. I wouldn't consider myself to be too financially conservative but I was amazed at how much people were willing to spend on crappy houses and apts that were made from plasterboard. And no-one thought that it was a risk.

I'm not saying that the buyers shoulder all the blame. There's a lot the government avoided doing, but I think buyers have to shoulder part of it.

Caliden

Grayson wrote: »

they got a mortgage they thought they could afford. A brief look at history will show the last 100 years littered with depressions, recessions and house market collapses. I wouldn't consider myself to be too financially conservative but I was amazed at how much people were willing to spend on crappy houses and apts that were made from plasterboard. And no-one thought that it was a risk.

I'm not saying that the buyers shoulder all the blame. There's a lot the government avoided doing, but I think buyers have to shoulder part of it.

She is....

But what happens when there is yet another tax (tax increase) to pay?

Take into account fuel, motor, property and USC. Would you actually factor those costs into buying a home? How could you have the foresight to even imagine those?
Maybe fuel/motor but the other 2 were pulled out of thin air and given a name in order to take in more money.

smash

Grayson wrote: »

they got a mortgage they thought they could afford. A brief look at history will show the last 100 years littered with depressions, recessions and house market collapses.

Would you ever give over! Like I said already, renting is as expensive if not more than a mortgage so it's a catch 22. If they didn't buy they'd still be paying through the roof. Probably more so than they are.

If there's a cycle there, then the banks and regulators are responsible for ensuring that things don't get out of hand. But they never do that.

Grayson wrote: »

I wouldn't consider myself to be too financially conservative but I was amazed at how much people were willing to spend on crappy houses and apts that were made from plasterboard. And no-one thought that it was a risk.

It's how they're built these days. That's not going to change unless you build your own house, and good luck with that anywhere in Dublin.

valoren

There's a lot to be said for having a stiff upper lip.

You'd swear we're living in the Gulag's reading that letter.

Alf Veedersane

Grayson wrote: »

FF are a shower of cnuts and I can't see how anyone can ever consider voting for them again.

You'd think so. But they will.

And this is doing the rounds on Facebook and people are talking about ousting the government as soon as they can...but the alternatives are as depressing.