Fixing to External Wall Insulation

erooney

I'm considering installing EWI for my home. Something that I can't seem to find information on is the issue of fixing hanging baskets, hose reels or even a new light to the external walls after it has been installed. I understand grounding can be installed now at the planning stage before the render is applied but if I decide to add something in 5 years, is it possible to do so?

MicktheMan

Yes, with the use of special fittings

mick121

erooney wrote:

I'm considering installing EWI for my home. Something that I can't seem to find information on is the issue of fixing hanging baskets, hose reels or even a new light to the external walls after it has been installed. I understand grounding can be installed now at the planning stage before the render is applied but if I decide to add something in 5 years, is it possible to do so?

there are special screw in fixings very similar to the plasterboard ones but bigger.these are used for downpipes after ewi is done.I have hung external lights using them with no problems but I think hanging baskets might be a bit heavy and pull out of the insulation.there are 150mm frame fixings that may suit better

erooney

mick121 wrote: »

there are special screw in fixings very similar to the plasterboard ones but bigger.these are used for downpipes after ewi is done.I have hung external lights using them with no problems but I think hanging baskets might be a bit heavy and pull out of the insulation.there are 150mm frame fixings that may suit better

Ok, thank you, I wanted the ins and outs before I get it done.

brianiac

can i hijack the thread to ask how tough is EWI? is it easily damaged? i've heard stories that it can easily be compressed and pushed in like polystyrene boards. I've yet to examie a house up close but am considering it...

BryanF

brianiac wrote: »

can i hijack the thread to ask how tough is EWI? is it easily damaged? i've heard stories that it can easily be compressed and pushed in like polystyrene boards. I've yet to examie a house up close but am considering it...

In areas of expected impact a mesh should be installed, once specified and installed correctly there is no issue. Also check manufacturers & installers guarentee and ask them what they will do if it's damaged

erooney

I will be getting ewi installed over the summer. I'm not an expert. I can't tell you exactly how tough it is, but most installers air on the side of caution and will tell you that you will have to be careful with ladders, kids playing against it, wheelie bins banging off it etc.

brianiac

cool beans. ta

wideboyy

In regard to the 150mm fixings referred to by mick121

"150mm frame fixings that may suit better"

Can you point to where I could get those to see what they look like?

I need to attach an eye bolt for broadband. Need to bolt through the insulation and into the blockwork without putting any lateral pressure on the insulation render. Needs to take weight of cable strung from nearby pole.

Also need to mount small box, but can use the plasterboard screw type for that.

listermint

M10 Anchor Bolt, untread the bolt and use some M10 threaded bar cut to length and put something on it.

You will want a deep drill to the blockwork to prevent lateral movement. not full proof though there will still be movement id imagine if your cable moves at all.

mick121

Another option is to use a 7.5 X 180mm concrete screw.These can be got in Screwfix bit it means buying a box of 100.Some large builder's providers may sell individually.

paddyb

I had it done. For existing stuff such as satellite dish and side gate - they bolted some small blocks of wood to the house wall and the stuff was screwed on to that (it is plastered over so you have to know it is there). They put everything back as it was for me. Smaller items were just mounted to the insulation

listermint

paddyb wrote: »

I had it done. For existing stuff such as satellite dish and side gate - they bolted some small blocks of wood to the house wall and the stuff was screwed on to that (it is plastered over so you have to know it is there). They put everything back as it was for me. Smaller items were just mounted to the insulation

He's past that point though

Calahonda52

if you don't want any movement, then rethink it because you will need a very big fixing not to flex somewhat

GreeBo

Calahonda52 wrote: »

if you don't want any movement, then rethink it because you will need a very big fixing not to flex somewhat

You'd probably need to open a hole wider than the fixing, attach it to house structure and then fill the gap with something flexible and not prone to cracking.

MicktheMan

wideboyy wrote: »

In regard to the 150mm fixings referred to by mick121

"150mm frame fixings that may suit better"

Can you point to where I could get those to see what they look like?

I need to attach an eye bolt for broadband. Need to bolt through the insulation and into the blockwork without putting any lateral pressure on the insulation render. Needs to take weight of cable strung from nearby pole.

Also need to mount small box, but can use the plasterboard screw type for that.

Can you mount a pole close to where the eyebolt is needed or perhaps fix the cable first to something solid close by like a facia board. This will take a lot of pressure off the wall fixing then.

KildareMan

To resurrect this thread. I've just had ewi applied and for the small stuff fixing to the walls - external lights, house number and mail box special fixings like plaster board fixings, but with a much larger lip around the top were used. For larger stuff like the car charger and gates I'm using pedestals & posts into the ground.

Pique

To ressurect this thread again can anyone recommend some kind of ladder pad that spreads the load against the wall when using a ladder?

My house is 2 storey and gutters need cleaning and unblocking and I'm worried about the pressure a normal ladder would have against it.

Was thinking about some kind of rubber foam type material but unsure if a ready made product exists specifically for this purpose.

My sons house was externally insulated and they cannot get Fibre Broadband because they refuse to penetrate the insulation. They also claim that they do not have the correct ladders to work against it.

I would imagine this could be quite common for many contractors.

Pique

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120905658#Comment_120905658

Yep NBI were the same with me. Something to do with being sued by homeowners for breaching the external fabric. I got them to put it in through a ventilation duct above the kitchen cabinets and mounted the ONT there and fed the CAT5 through the wall to the router.

But anyway, back to ladder pads.

10-10-20

A ladder standoff is normally used to spread the load of the ladder on the wall as well as stabilise the ladder. I'd presume that it would provide the required level of support for an EWI, but I'd expect that the finish be solid enough to take a ladder in some way!

Example:

https://ladders.ie/products/hooksandstays/

Lumen

I would try splitting some pipe lagging and duct taping it to the ladder stays.

I know you asked for ready made products but (a) this is the DIY forum, and (b) pipe lagging and duct tape are both ready-made 🤣

Glencarraig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120905658#Comment_120905658

Had my fibre cable installed last week, Actavo installers had no problems fixing the anchor hook for the cable and had rubber ends on the ladder.

Glencarraig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2057325349/fixing-to-external-wall-insulation

These work. Smaller one for the likes of downpipes and lights, the bigger one you could hang the 5 lamps on it !!!

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Lumen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120909481#Comment_120909481

That question you're answering was asked 9 years ago.

Glencarraig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120909569#Comment_120909569

I really must get more sleep !!!

mick121

I have ewi 13 years now and I've been using my standard ladder several times a year against it to clean gutters, access roof etc without any issues regarding dents or damage.

My neighbour also has it and he taped lots of bubble wrap around the top of the ladder.

GreeBo

Id use a standoff with some timber across the bottom of it (as any standoffs I have seen are not "flat" on the part that touches the wall)

Pique

I was thinking of using the rubber that cow mats are made from. Grippy yet strong enough to be able to bolt to the ladder or plank on a standoff as suggested without ripping.

GreeBo

Its not just grippy you need though, you need to spread the weight. If your standoff has "legs" that typically rest against the wall then you need something to turn these legs into a wider base to spread the load.

e.g. in the below, the two rubber feet are not spreading the load across a large area, they are just there for grip.

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120921191#Comment_120921191

That's the one that I have and it's great.

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120921232#Comment_120921232

Yep, I've the same one myself!

Lumen

It seems like a junior cert maths question, but what fraction of a 75 degree ladder's weight is exerted against the wall it leans against?

I'm guessing 1/8th.

hesker

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120926972#Comment_120926972

I think It’s just Cos 75 but I usually get these things wrong.

1/4 roughly?

Lumen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120930705#Comment_120930705

Yeah, but isn't it half that because ...ground something something 😂

I have no idea.

GreeBo

and wouldnt it depend on how far up the ladder you stood...?

Pique

I asked ChatGPT: A person weighing 90kg stands 75% of the way up on a 5m ladder weighing 20kg leaning against a wall. How much force is exerted on the wall?

To calculate the force exerted on the wall by the person standing on the ladder, we need to consider both the gravitational force and the horizontal component of the force due to the ladder.

Gravitational force on the ladder: The ladder itself weighs 20 kg, so the force due to gravity acting on the ladder can be calculated as:

Gravitational Force (F_gravity_ladder) = Mass of the ladder × Acceleration due to gravity F_gravity_ladder = 20 kg × 9.8 m/s² ≈ 196 N

Gravitational force on the person: The person's weight is 90 kg, and the force due to gravity can be calculated as:

Gravitational Force (F_gravity_person) = Mass of the person × Acceleration due to gravity F_gravity_person = 90 kg × 9.8 m/s² ≈ 882 N

Horizontal component of force on the wall: The ladder leans against the wall, creating a horizontal component of force on the wall. The horizontal component of force can be calculated as:

Horizontal Component of Force (F_horizontal) = (1 - Fraction of the ladder length) × (F_gravity_ladder + F_gravity_person) F_horizontal = (1 - 0.75) × (196 N + 882 N) ≈ 0.25 × 1078 N ≈ 269.5 N

Now, let's convert the horizontal force to kilograms:

Force on the wall in kilograms:

Force (in kg) = Horizontal Force (in N) / Acceleration due to gravity Force (in kg) = 269.5 N / 9.8 m/s² ≈ 27.5 kg

So, the horizontal force exerted on the wall by the ladder with the person standing on it is approximately 27.5 kilograms.

No idea if that's right, but it seems plausible. A fair bit of pressure over a small surface area.

GreeBo

and just to allay any fears that AI will take over the world :)

The weight exerted on the wall is the vertical component of the force due to the ladder and the person. This force is equal to the sum of the weight of the ladder and the weight of the person, both multiplied by their respective proportions along the ladder.

Given:

Person's weight (W_person) = 90 kg

Ladder's weight (W_ladder) = 20 kg

Ladder length (L) = 5 m

Distance up the ladder (d) = 75% of ladder length = 0.75 * 5 m = 3.75 m

Calculate the vertical component of the ladder's weight on the wall (F_ladder_wall):

F_ladder_wall = (W_ladder * g) * (d / L)

F_ladder_wall = (20 kg * 9.81 m/s²) * (3.75 m / 5 m) ≈ 147.15 N

Calculate the vertical component of the person's weight on the wall (F_person_wall):

F_person_wall = (W_person * g) * (d / L)

F_person_wall = (90 kg * 9.81 m/s²) * (3.75 m / 5 m) ≈ 661.95 N

Calculate the total weight exerted on the wall (Total_weight_wall):

Total_weight_wall = F_ladder_wall + F_person_wall

Total_weight_wall ≈ 147.15 N + 661.95 N ≈ 809.1 N

Convert the total weight exerted on the wall from Newtons to kilograms:

Weight in kg = Weight in N / g

Weight in kg = 809.1 N / 9.81 m/s² ≈ 82.36 kg

Therefore, the weight exerted on the wall is approximately 82.36 kilograms.

Lumen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120937911#Comment_120937911

Horizontal component, surely?

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120938491#Comment_120938491

That quote is what chatGPT gave me for the same question :)

Pique

Yeah I had to modify the q slightly. You have to be ultra specific so it took a couple of tries to get it to answer the question.

PaybackPayroll

82.36+27.5 = 110

110 = 90 (person) + 20 (ladder)

So the first ChatGPT is the force on the wall (27.5) and the second answer is force on the ground (82.36)

Isn't ChatGPT amazing? I think it's incredible.

Lumen

Not as amazing as hesker though.

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120939700#Comment_120939700

the problem is that it tells you both are the correct answer to the same question!

DublinDilbert

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120921191#Comment_120921191

These stand offs are well worth the money, have used mine both internally and externally. They also leave room to work and put a paint tray etc.

ive used it internally as I always fear the ladder breaking the plaster board. So I just fix some timber across it to spread the load further again.