New Microsoft Lumias (11/11/2014)

g0g

I see there are gonna be a few new phone announcements from MS today. They already announced the Lumia 535 yesterday with nice enough specs. I'm looking forward to hearing what they higher end phones are like later on today. I've read rumours of both a 940 or a 1330.

Anyone got any thoughts? Part of me would love to finally have an upgrade for my 920, but then I also wonder if you are better hanging on for Windows 10 (although they've said all devices from 8.1 should be able to run 10) but you never know how long it might be before those devices reach Ireland!

I would just love a phone today with fast processor, wireless charging, a decent camera and it'd be great to have xenon flash. I also quite like (yes, it might be gimmicky!) the fingerprint unlocking on the iPhone6 - do Apple have some sort of patent on that?

MJohnston

Hmm, I'm not entirely sure there are going to be any more announcements today. Certainly from all I've heard there won't be any high-end devices announced either way.

theothernt

No more high end phones until next year.

_Kaiser_

So another low-mid range phone in a market segment that's already saturated with both cheap Lumias and Androids.

You'd have to wonder what MS are thinking in the face of releases like the Note 4, iPhone 6 etc. Not having a top-end new flagship to push will hurt them in the Christmas period IMO

jimmynokia

The 535 is a nice phone.however as mentioned we have an already saturated market with too much low end stuff,MS need a high end device now or else...But god knows when that will be...

wheresmybeaver

My 920 is having its 2 year anniversary soon and there's no compelling Windows Phone to update to. I'm ruling out the 830 as a "sideways" upgrade.

A lack of flagship phone and all of this iOS / Android development does not bode well for Windows Phone.

unkel

jimmynokia wrote: »

MS need a high end device now or else...

wheresmybeaver wrote: »

My 920 is having its 2 year anniversary soon and there's no compelling Windows Phone to update to. I'm ruling out the 830 as a "sideways" upgrade.

A lack of flagship phone

Lads surely the 1520 is the flagship Lumia phone? 920 / 830 / 925 are all mid range phones? (I've had the 820, 920 and 925 myself)

_Kaiser_

unkel wrote: »

Lads surely the 1520 is the flagship Lumia phone? 920 / 830 / 925 are all mid range phones? (I've had the 820, 920 and 925 myself)

The 1520 is more of a niche phone I'd say - at 6" it won't be for everyone or even most people. The 920 was the flagship when it was released 2 years ago.

The 1520 is just over a year old at this stage and really aside from being bigger and slightly faster there's no difference between it and the rest of the range.
That's both WP's blessing and curse. Unlike say Androids where there are significant hardware and feature differences between models, beaver's 920 will still do (almost) everything the latest 930 will.
Given it'll also get Windows 10 based on the announcement from MS this week, there's really no compelling reason for him to upgrade or replace it. Sure even a 520 will get Windows 10 apparently.

Therein lies the problem really. No-one needs to upgrade so they don't and so the carriers aren't selling phones, so don't order the new ones etc...

I'm not saying that WP should move to a similar model like Android where 6-12 months later your flagship is effectively unsupported and obsolete unless you load custom ROMs onto it but WP needs a real differentiator and needs it fast if it's to survive. They also need to open up the ecosystem to developers more so that the same apps on other platforms work just as well on WP.

But as I've said before, that all depends on whether MSFT care about the platform or the services more.

Francie Barrett

The 930 and the 1520 are both surely flagships, both have the Snapdragon 800, 2GB of RAM, same imaging system, etc.

unkel

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

That's both WP's blessing and curse.

Agreed. But you can turn the argument around as well. The 920 / 830 etc. are so good and so cheap (nearly flagship quality for less than half flagship price) that no one wants to upgrade

I bought a second hand unlocked 920 myself at the start of the year for €150. At some point Tesco UK were selling them new for £169. At those price points it is a far, far better phone than anything iPhone / Android

You and others are saying Microsoft needs a flagship. But you're also saying there is no market for it (as current users won't trade up). That's a bit of a contradiction, isn't it?

_Kaiser_

unkel wrote: »

Agreed. But you can turn the argument around as well. The 920 / 830 etc. are so good and so cheap (nearly flagship quality for less than half flagship price) that no one wants to upgrade

I bought a second hand unlocked 920 myself at the start of the year for €150. At some point Tesco UK were selling them new for £169. At those price points it is a far, far better phone than anything iPhone / Android

You and others are saying Microsoft needs a flagship. But you're also saying there is no market for it (as current users won't trade up). That's a bit of a contradiction, isn't it?

Not really

Let's face it.. people who buy flagships are tech nerds. They like the latest specs, the newest models, the extra features - and they're prepared to pay a premium for it.

But with WP there's very little real differences between say the 920 of 2 years ago and today's top-end 930. They both do exactly the same things equally as well and despite 2 years separating them, not much has changed beyond bug fixes and adding things that should have been there since Day 1.

But with no reason to upgrade - especially as both will get Windows 10 - where does the incentive to improve come from? I guess that's not a big issue if MS have contented themselves to sell cheap low to mid-end handsets indefinitely (as increasingly seems to be the case), but I can't see that doing the platform any good and it'll drive those tech savvy buyers (and developers?) to alternatives.

For those who are interested in the platform, where does that leave them?

unkel

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Let's face it.. people who buy flagships are tech nerds. They like the latest specs, the newest models, the extra features - and they're prepared to pay a premium for it.

But with WP there's very little real differences between say the 920 of 2 years ago and today's top-end 930. They both do exactly the same things equally as well

Isn't that pretty much true for an iPhone 5S vs iPhone 6? Same OS, bit more power, nicer / bigger 1080p screen. Still plenty of people forking out the guts of a grand to upgrade from the former to the latter.

_Kaiser_

unkel wrote: »

Isn't that pretty much true for an iPhone 5S vs iPhone 6? Same OS, bit more power, nicer / bigger 1080p screen. Still plenty of people forking out the guts of a grand to upgrade from the former to the latter.

But that's the "cult of Apple" where they treat every new release like the Second Coming - don't understand it myself, but then I am not an Apple fan and use none of their devices/services.

MS/WP doesn't have anywhere near that kind of following and releasing low-end cheap handsets when their competitors are releasing high-end quality feature rich alternatives won't change that.

Still, I guess that if the strategy is now to focus on that entry-level/emerging market and that's where they're making their money, then keeping people like me happy isn't a big issue for them.

bidiots

I think we are reaching the Tipping point when it comes to current mobile hardware. Extra ram, higher def screen, bells and whistles....there comes a point when it doesn't really make much difference. This is where I agree with the MS strategy, flood the market with affordable devices that are nearly equal to high end phones when it comes to the basics.
I've been an Android fan since it hit the market here but now I will opt for Windows and advise anyone who asks me to do the same. It's a smooth interface that simply works. Android still has loads of corners to it imo....

InTheTrees

Annoying. I didnt put a screen protector on my 920 when I got it 2 years ago so I was looking forward to replacing it when my contract was up a few weeks ago.

Bu there's nothing to choose from. At&T can sell me an 830 or a 1520 and thats it, they dont sell 930's. I guess I'll wait and see what might be released in the new year.

rumar

Whats the best Lumia to get to replace my 920 which i dropped today? Is the 925 the best option @€;250 on prepay?

_Kaiser_

rumar wrote: »

Whats the best Lumia to get to replace my 920 which i dropped today? Is the 925 the best option @€;250 on prepay?

925 would be end of life as well (not that it won't work, it's just been replaced with newer models since). I'd suggest an 830 or 930 myself.

bidiots

The 735, 200 on Meteor PAYG, great phone

PaulieC

I'd go 830. It's a decent spec update and a lovely slim, light handset

bidiots

Also, get the 830/930 before the end of the year and you can claim the wireless charger and speaker bundle from Microsoft

TBi

bidiots wrote: »

Also, get the 830/930 before the end of the year and you can claim the wireless charger and speaker bundle from Microsoft

Only works if you buy from UK. I couldn't claim with my Irish bought 930.

AnCatDubh

Engadget has a Lumia 1020 like 'leak' featuring camera with a hump

http://www.engadget.com/2014/11/30/lumia-rm-1052-leak/

Celly Smunt

AnCatDubh wrote: »

Engadget has a Lumia 1020 like 'leak' featuring camera with a hump

http://www.engadget.com/2014/11/30/lumia-rm-1052-leak/

If it were true that would be worth waiting out for. Since I'm using a 1020 I've gotten spoiled with the camera meaning anything I'd switch to after would be a downgrade.

Only thing is after using the polycarbonate which is pretty much scratch proof on nokias I don't know how I'd deal with the aluminium cover

wheresmybeaver

Celly Smunt wrote: »

If it were true that would be worth waiting out for. Since I'm using a 1020 I've gotten spoiled with the camera meaning anything I'd switch to after would be a downgrade.

Only thing is after using the polycarbonate which is pretty much scratch proof on nokias I don't know how I'd deal with the aluminium cover

The supposed Lumia 1030 has in the last few hours been exposed as the cancelled Nokia Lumia McLaren, which was to have some far out "contactless touch" system and a mere 20 megapixel camera.

It wasn't looking good that the leak had the Nokia logo on the device. If we're going to be seeing any new handsets they're going to have the Microsoft branding on them.

jimmynokia

This phone is not hapenning..

InTheTrees

There's rumours of a 940 in the spring.

Which means I'll probably stagger on with my old 920 until then rather than get an 830.

jimmynokia

Pinch of salt same as 1030..

MJohnston

InTheTrees wrote: »

There's rumours of a 940 in the spring.

Which means I'll probably stagger on with my old 920 until then rather than get an 830.

I'd suspect they'd go for 935 rather than 940, because the middle digit is supposed to indicate "generation" and it'd be odd to have a gen4 and gen3 happening at the same time (1030).

To be honest I think they might need to work in the next few months in getting the different tiers to make sense, because right now the 5-series outdoes the 6-series and the 8-series is better than the 9-series in a lot of ways too.

BostonB

bidiots wrote: »

I think we are reaching the Tipping point when it comes to current mobile hardware. Extra ram, higher def screen, bells and whistles....there comes a point when it doesn't really make much difference. This is where I agree with the MS strategy, flood the market with affordable devices that are nearly equal to high end phones when it comes to the basics.
I've been an Android fan since it hit the market here but now I will opt for Windows and advise anyone who asks me to do the same. It's a smooth interface that simply works. Android still has loads of corners to it imo....

I don't that the plan. The problem is the mid & high end WP aren't selling well at all. The low end is. They have to widen their use base.

I've been using WP for over a year. I'll probably be going back to Android. There still to much "for me" that doesn't work in WP, but does in Android. I will miss the speed of WP interface though. I think that's why WP is better value at the low end.

_Kaiser_

BostonB wrote: »

I don't that the plan. The problem is the mid & high end WP aren't selling well at all. The low end is. They have to widen their use base.

Part of the problem is that availability of the mid-high end phones through the networks is limited.
The 830 for example is only on Vodafone at the minute, the 1520 was the same as far as I recall. I don't think you can get the HTC One WP on a contract here at all and no-one is going to pay 600 quid for a phone that in real/usage isn't much different to the lower end - far cheaper - models.

I've been using WP for over a year. I'll probably be going back to Android. There still to much "for me" that doesn't work in WP, but does in Android. I will miss the speed of WP interface though. I think that's why WP is better value at the low end.

That's why I ultimately switched back as well. The OS itself is great - solid, fast and bloat free - but the ecosystem and app functionalities still lag noticeably behind their counterparts.
The Note 4 I'm using now is a vast improvement on the Note 2 I had when I switched to WP - I don't just mean in terms of specs but they seem to have finally reached the right balance between OS and hardware performance.. or to put it another way, it's the first Droid I haven't HAD to root to make it usable.

As I said above, MS seem content with flooding the lower end of the market with marginally different models and that's fine, but when a big deal is being made out of the latest dev update finally including a data toggle, it's hard to see where the real innovations will come.

Maybe Win 10 will change that.. I'm running the tech preview on this laptop right now and it seems pretty good so far.

beauf

In fairness all the mid to high end models have much better camera's and screens. Quality of screen not just size and resolution.

Finally a Mobile data toggle, I was wondering what that update was. Man I use that all the time. Why for petes sake can't the wifi be a toggle as well. Its like the dev team don't use smart phones or something.

I don't really understand the Lumia model line up. Most of the WP fan site don't either. They want a faster 1020. A low end phone with front camera. Glance on all phones. Etc.

Gipo3

beauf wrote: »

Finally a Mobile data toggle, I was wondering what that update was. Man I use that all the time. Why for petes sake can't the wifi be a toggle as well. Its like the dev team don't use smart phones or something.

There is a WiFi toggle. Go to settings - notifications + actions - choose quick actions

murphm45

beauf wrote: »

Finally a Mobile data toggle, I was wondering what that update was. Man I use that all the time. Why for petes sake can't the wifi be a toggle as well. Its like the dev team don't use smart phones or something.

What update is this? Is it the Lumia denim update?

beauf

No idea I'm on the dev preview. I think the notification of the update only came through this morning. Still says cyan. But I now have a data toggle in the drop down notifications called mobile data. One click on/off like android.

beauf

Gipo3 wrote: »

There is a WiFi toggle. Go to settings - notifications + actions - choose quick actions

For me that's a short cut to a toggle. Its more of a slider with two positions. Regardless of what that is. I think most people want it to work the way the mobile data does. Like android.

I don't turn WiFi on/off as much as I do data. So its not as big an issue as the mobile data was.

theothernt

murphm45 wrote: »

What update is this? Is it the Lumia denim update?

As others mentioned, it was part of the latest update from the Dev Preview programme which appeared a couple of days ago...

http://www.windowscentral.com/windows-phone-update-14219-finally-brings-cellular-data-toggle-action-center-0

beauf

What other changes are in it. Was voice search there before?

MJohnston

Complaining that this update *only* includes something simple like a data action toggle is a bit harsh - this was a minor update to the Dev Preview version, not a wide public release that was heralded as including major features. Dev Preview owners will receive lots of little updates like this on a frequent schedule (I've seen at least 4-5 since 8.1 Update 1 was installed). All these smaller updates we're getting on DP will be rolled up into a major release for the general public.

liamog

beauf wrote: »

For me that's a short cut to a toggle. Its more of a slider with two positions. Regardless of what that is. I think most people want it to work the way the mobile data does. Like android.

I don't turn WiFi on/off as much as I do data. So its not as big an issue as the mobile data was.

We've discussed this before the WiFi Quick Action is almost perfect, I need to connect to WiFi Networks way more than I need to switch it off and on

BostonB

MJohnston wrote: »

Complaining that this update *only* includes something simple like a data action toggle is a bit harsh...

If you mean me, I didn't say that. I just said I wished Wifi worked the same.

If you want to save battery life, or if the wifi zone you're in is interminable and constantly prompting for a password as it does on the train. I just want to turn it off, and use mobile data. The same way we can now turn off mobile data.

These are basic features that have been on Android for years. Its not some exotic high end feature.

If you are on mobile data all day, or rock solid wifi its not something you'd ever notice.

wheresmybeaver

So apparently Acer are planning to release a bunch of Windows Phones in the new year. Will be mostly low to mid range I would imagine?

MJohnston

wheresmybeaver wrote: »

Will be mostly low to mid range I would imagine?

It's Acer, so I think that's implied :P

jimmynokia

MJohnston wrote: »

It's Acer, so I think that's implied :P

Acer = SH1te.

senordingdong

wheresmybeaver wrote: »

So apparently Acer are planning to release a bunch of Windows Phones in the new year. Will be mostly low to mid range I would imagine?

The market does seem saturated at this stage but if there is truth to the idea that starting people off on a low end will eventually lead them to upgrade then so be it. I don't see it myself especially with other factors like contract lengths and waiting for carrier updates.

920 is old and EOL can still stand toe to toe with the competition.

930 is only a small leap forward and is technically older than were think.

Was looking forward to the 1020 successor but if the leaked info is accurate than it's not for me.

BostonB

I don't think people buying the low end encourages them to move up to higher models.

wheresmybeaver

http://www.neowin.net/news/more-htc-one-m9-specs-leaked

Supposed specs of the HTC M9, and a little tidbit that HTC may also simultaneously launch a windows phone version.. which would be nice!

I've been doing a lot of research on android phones recently and while there's some great hardware out there I think I would miss my WP start screen and its live tiles. Its just really practical, whereas android seems to rely a lot on switching between apps and checking the notifications drawer. Let's hope by Q2 2015 there'll be a wider choice of windows phone than the low-end or aging range provided by Microsoft.