2015 Hurling Feile

BenEadir

Hi all,

Anyone know when and where the 2015 Hurling Feile finals weekend is being held?

Also, is it true that "A" level clubs from Kilkenny, Cork, Clare, Dublin, Galway, Limerick, Tipperary, Waterford and Wexford are not allowed to participate i.e. it's the winners of the "B" level play off's from those counties which go forward to the Feile weekend final? See http://www.kilkennypeople.ie/sport/gaelic-games/thumbs-down-to-new-feile-format-1-5964616

Appreciate any info or links to the organisation and structure of the 2015 Hurling Felie which people here can provide.

Cheers.

Breadandbutter

My understanding was it was restructured last year as it was being dominated by same clubs and counties and supposed getting too competitive and deemed to be losing the spirt of Feile

I gather depending on where it is located ex if located in Kilkenny, Tipp, Cork etc the winning teams compete and there are divisional one blitzes in other locations

If the hurling is on in Sligo, Kerry, or Mayo (no offence)teams from lower divisions would travel and one day blitzes elsewhere again

Or something along those lines

Personally I have great memories of feile - and wouldn't have changed a thing

BenEadir

So it's true that no "A" level teams from Kilkenny, Cork, Clare, Dublin, Galway, Limerick, Tipperary, Waterford or Wexford are allowed to compete at the Feile finals weekend and instead must play a regional competition amongst themselves i.e. the top 4 "A" teams in each of Kilkenny, Wexford and Dublin play off against each other for a Leinster regional trophy in a totally separate Leinster location not affiliated i any way to the Felie finals weekend, the top 4 "A" teams in each of Clare, Cork, Tipperary and Waterford play off against each other in a separate Munster location for a Munster regional trophy and the top 4 teams in Galway play off against each other presumably somewhere in Galway but not anywhere connected to the Feile finals weekend?

Sounds like the winners of the Feile finals weekend are winning some sort of "B" level competition which the best 90 teams in the country (if each of the specified counties has 10 "A" level teams) are excluded from. Doesn't that totally undermine the value of having an All Ireland type event? What's the point in being able to say "We're the 91st best U14 hurling team in Ireland???

It's social engineering crossed with political correctness gone mad Ted, mad

The Lost Sheep

BenEadir wrote: »

Hi all,
Anyone know when and where the 2015 Hurling Feile finals weekend is being held?
Also, is it true that "A" level clubs from Kilkenny, Cork, Clare, Dublin, Galway, Limerick, Tipperary, Waterford and Wexford are not allowed to participate i.e. it's the winners of the "B" level play off's from those counties which go forward to the Feile weekend final? See http://www.kilkennypeople.ie/sport/gaelic-games/thumbs-down-to-new-feile-format-1-5964616

Appreciate any info or links to the organisation and structure of the 2015 Hurling Felie which people here can provide.

Cheers.

Don't know if its true or not but as the Feile ultimately shouldn't be all about winning is this not a good thing?

Breadandbutter wrote: »

My understanding was it was restructured last year as it was being dominated by same clubs and counties and supposed getting too competitive and deemed to be losing the spirt of Feile

I gather depending on where it is located ex if located in Kilkenny, Tipp, Cork etc the winning teams compete and there are divisional one blitzes in other locations

If the hurling is on in Sligo, Kerry, or Mayo (no offence)teams from lower divisions would travel and one day blitzes elsewhere again

Or something along those lines

Personally I have great memories of feile - and wouldn't have changed a thing

To be fair if its dominated by same clubs over and over it should be changed. Its only u14 and should be more invitational to give other clubs a chance to take part who never would if decided on an ability basis

BenEadir wrote: »

So it's true that no "A" level teams from Kilkenny, Cork, Clare, Dublin, Galway, Limerick, Tipperary, Waterford or Wexford are allowed to compete at the Feile finals weekend and instead must play a regional competition amongst themselves i.e. the top 4 "A" teams in each of Kilkenny, Wexford and Dublin play off against each other for a Leinster regional trophy in a totally separate Leinster location not affiliated i any way to the Felie finals weekend, the top 4 "A" teams in each of Clare, Cork, Tipperary and Waterford play off against each other in a separate Munster location for a Munster regional trophy and the top 4 teams in Galway play off against each other presumably somewhere in Galway but not anywhere connected to the Feile finals weekend?

Sounds like the winners of the Feile finals weekend are winning some sort of "B" level competition which the best 90 teams in the country (if each of the specified counties has 10 "A" level teams) are excluded from. Doesn't that totally undermine the value of having an All Ireland type event? What's the point in being able to say "We're the 91st best U14 hurling team in Ireland???

It's social engineering crossed with political correctness gone mad Ted, mad

Its not politicial correctness its common sense and making the best out of things. The strongest counties sides compete against each other and theyre next level of sides compete with the rest in a better standard of competition

Breadandbutter

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Don't know if its true or not but as the Feile ultimately shouldn't be all about winning is this not a good thing?

To be fair if its dominated by same clubs over and over it should be changed. Its only u14 and should be more invitational to give other clubs a chance to take part who never would if decided on an ability basis
Its not politicial correctness its common sense and making the best out of things. The strongest counties sides compete against each other and theyre next level of sides compete with the rest in a better standard of competition

Shur it's not all about winning !!!! It's all about participation - I would say you ask any of the kids from teams that didn't win ( vast majority)and what they remember is the weekend itself, the friends they made, the excitement and buzz, the pride of representing their club and county

Having said that winning your county is a great achievement and keeps a lot of kids interested when they might abandon GAA or sport in general - usually all kids get a game at some stage over weekend

Kids start getting competitive at this age and whereas they want to win while playing it's all forgotten shortly after match is over and it's all part of the experience

Seems to me the clubs that worked hardest at promoting hurling and developing players are now penalised for being successful

BenEadir

Breadandbutter wrote: »

Seems to me the clubs that worked hardest at promoting hurling and developing players are now penalised for being successful

Spot on. It's quite discriminatory to ban over a thousand young U14 Hughes from the biggest event in juvenile hurling. What sort of "social" or "inclusive" message do they get? It's basically "you're not welcome because you're too good".

Social engineering and political correctness gone mad.

The Lost Sheep

Breadandbutter wrote: »

Shur it's not all about winning !!!! It's all about participation - I would say you ask any of the kids from teams that didn't win (vast majority)and what they remember is the weekend itself, the friends they made, the excitement and buzz, the pride of representing their club and county

Having said that winning your county is a great achievement and keeps a lot of kids interested when they might abandon GAA or sport in general - usually all kids get a game at some stage over weekend

Kids start getting competitive at this age and whereas they want to win while playing it's all forgotten shortly after match is over and it's all part of the experience

Seems to me the clubs that worked hardest at promoting hurling and developing players are now penalised for being successful

Of course kids will remember the buzz etc and these changes will not affect that but there is too many cases of clubs taking the whole thing too seriously and these changes should help alter that.
Clubs aren't being penalised for being successful and will still get to compete in a multi county competition.

BenEadir wrote: »

Spot on. It's quite discriminatory to ban a thousand young U14 Hughes from the biggest event in juvenile hurling. What sort of "social" or "inclusive" message go they get? It's basically "you're not welcome because you're too good".

Social engineering and political correctness gone mad.

Its not discriminatory at all. Its helping the weekend. Those players will still get to play in a cross county competition on a weekend similar to what they would if no changes had been made

BenEadir

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Those players will still get to play in a cross county competition on a weekend similar to what they would if no changes had been made

In what way will it be similar? They will have very little cross county interaction, it will all be with other players from a few counties from their home province and the Galway guys don't get to mix with any cross country players wheresoever. How on earth is that fair and how does it "help the weekend"?

Also, you can be100% certain the level of competition between the "B" teams allowed into the Feile weekend won't be any less fierce than if it was "A" teams on the field.

Putting teams of 14 year old boys out against each other will always result in fully competitive games, that's just human nature. It's shameful that the GAA, who are supposed to be a socially inclusive organisation are gerrymandering who can play and who can't play at the national finals based on the county that child lives in and apologists for them like the lost sheep are even worse.

All kids are equal but its now official GAA policy that some are less equal than others.

Embarrassing and shameful and I say that as card carrying GAA member and coach.

The Lost Sheep

BenEadir wrote: »

In what way will it be similar? They will have very little cross county interaction, it will all be with other players from a few counties from their home province and the Galway guys don't get to mix with any cross country players wheresoever. How on earth is that fair and how does it "help the weekend"?

Also, you can be100% certain the level of competition between the "B" teams allowed into the Feile weekend won't be any less fierce than if it was "A" teams on the field.

Putting teams of 14 year old boys out against each other will always result in fully competitive games, that's just human nature. It's shameful that the GAA, who are supposed to be a socially inclusive organisation are gerrymandering who can play and who can't play at the national finals based on the county that child lives in and apologists for them like the lost sheep are even worse.

All kids are equal but its now official GAA policy that some are less equal than others.

Embarrassing and shameful and I say that as card carrying GAA member and coach.

Under 14 teams against each other will not always result in fully competitive games. Their is such big differences in every aspect of life at that age there will not always be fully competitive games. All clubs who compete will still have significant cross county interaction especially considering they will be playing several clubs not from their county who they may never have played before and may never play again. Its not policy in any way that some kids are less equal than others. This is neither embarrassing nor shameful

BenEadir

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Under 14 teams against each other will not always result in fully competitive games. Their is such big differences in every aspect of life at that age there will not always be fully competitive games. All clubs who compete will still have significant cross county interaction especially considering they will be playing several clubs not from their county who they may never have played before and may never play again. Its not policy in any way that some kids are less equal than others. This is neither embarrassing nor shameful

You do know it's a competition right with winners getting a trophy and the title of (91st) best U14 hurling team in Ireland? Do you seriously think 14 year old lads are not going to be competitive? Perhaps you live in some hippie comune but I live in the real world and 14 year old boys are fiercly competitive.

The excluded teams will have very little cross county interaction and it will all be within their own province, you do understand that right? You also understand that the Galway boys will have no cross county interaction whatsoever or are you in denial about that also?

How discrimination like this can be permitted is an outage. We live in a Republic, the very last thing we should be doing is excluding boys from participating in a competition based on their ability and where they live.

You may not be ashamed of such behavior and indeed you seem quite happy to strap on the jack boots and tow the discriminatory party line but I for one am embarrassed and ashamed that an organisation I'm a member of and an avid admirer of in many ways has chosen to adapt such a policy.

The Lost Sheep

BenEadir wrote: »

You do know it's a competition right with winners getting a trophy and the title of (91st) best U14 hurling team in Ireland? Do you seriously think 14 year old lads are not going to be competitive? Perhaps you live in some hippie comune but I live in the real world and 14 year old boys are fiercly competitive.

The excluded teams will have very little cross county interaction and it will all be within their own province, you do understand that right? You also understand that the Galway boys will have no cross county interaction whatsoever or are you in denial about that also?

How discrimination like this can be permitted is an outage. We live in a Republic, the very last thing we should be doing is excluding boys from participating in a competition based on their ability and where they live.

You may not be ashamed of such behavior and indeed you seem quite happy to strap on the jack boots and tow the discriminatory party line but I for one am embarrassed and ashamed that an organisation I'm a member of and an avid admirer of in many ways has chosen to adapt such a policy.

You are taking a slightly different slant on word competitive to me so relax with the OTT outrage.
This decision isn't discrimination. I never said or implied under 14s wouldn't be competitive. The winners will not be 91st best in Ireland and will still celebrate the title as much as any team who wins the Feile will. Their success will not be diminished because these other sides are not competing and are competing elsewhere
I have coached at under 13 and 14 in other sports and currently am helping coach an under 13 side while not refereeing games so know full well how 13 and 14 year olds act in games
You are focusing too much on the winning of the event. The whole Feile competition isn't about winning and this decision is reinforcing that.

The teams who are excluded still get to play in a cross county competition against teams they may never play against again. They will still get to travel and play over a weekend against several clubs while staying at a host family in the county the finals are on in.
This change is not discriminatory. It is for the betterment of hurling in all counties.

BenEadir

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

The whole Feile competition isn't about winning and this decision is reinforcing that.

I bet you don't even see the paradox of your statement above? How can you have a non competitive competition? If there's a winner it's competitive. It's even called a competition. If the GAA want it to de emphasise winning why continue with the competitive knock out format leading to one single winner? Why not replace the competition alltogether with skills demonstrations and all inclusive group exercises etc which everyone could be invited to?

I'm actually not focused on winning, I'm focused on being given equal access for all and for a level playing field where your ability and commitment to training are rewarded.

Btw, you still haven't told me how the Galway boys get some of this cross county interaction action?

The Lost Sheep

BenEadir wrote: »

I bet you don't even see the paradox of your statement above? How can you have a non competitive competition? If there's a winner it's competitive. It's even called a competition. If the GAA don't want it to de emphasise winning why continue with the competitive knock out format leading to one single winner? Why not replace the competition alltogether with skills demonstrations and all inclusive group exercises etc which everyone could be invited to?

Btw, you still haven't told me how the Galway boys get some of this cross county interaction action?

You can adapt events to de emphasise winning or change approaches of clubs/coaches to the whole Feile weekend and that to me, as an outsider, appears to be the case with the Feile now. Galway clubs compete against Leinster/Munster clubs would be way for cross county games and ideally Leinster
The GAA can de emphasise winning by changing how clubs treat the competition. You can still have winners, trophies etc but how the whole final weekend is treated can be changed

What have you done to make your grievances with the new competition proposals known to powers that be?
And the decision to make these changes is in no way discriminatory

Decoda

Some interesting views from both sides. Let me give you an "insider view" from a parent of one of an U14 team who did not win their County Feile but was allowed participate in the Feile in Ulster this year.

The team came from an extremely small parish with a population of 450. We can barely field a squad of 15. To travel to Feile we had to enlist 4 U12's. Only for the opportunity afforded us by the GAA with changing the format of the Feile we would never be able to participate, i.e. In the eyes of many we were not good enough. Year in year out we are beaten by the super clubs of the county. Teams that can field teams taken from squads numbering 30 to 40, have the best of equipment and training facilities, all weather pitches, year round training in state of the art indoor arenas. We have a field and a shipping container. And yet we still take part in the County Feile competition because of the love of the game.

This year we were afforded the opportunity to attend Feile 2014. It would be the first time our club had participated in Feile. Indeed it would be the first time that our coiste club had played outside of the county. The amount of time and effort that those parents put into raising the money needed for the bus and T-Shirts brought me to tears on many occasions. Our jerseys were years old, ripped and with the sponsors name faded. We ended up borrowing the local National school jerseys which were slightly too tight but I was reliably informed by our lads that the tighter the better, this was the fashion.

We were placed in one of the lower divisions, up against teams from across the country. We played in National stadiums, County Training facilities. It was a most memorable and fantastic experience for all these young men. An experience that they will remember for the rest of their lives. An experience that I was extremely proud to have been a part of.

We were beaten in our first 3 matches and placed in the Shield competition. We knew that we were outclassed and out manned but the spirit and determinination that those lads showed will stay with me for the rest of my life. We entered the Shield competition and won our Quarter Final by a point. We had nothing to lose as progressed to the Semi Final, telling our players how proud we were of them making it to the Shield Semi Finals. And then we won again. Even now the hairs are standing up on the back of my neck as I remember witnessing our team play some of their best hurling I've ever seen them play. They won the Shield Final.

Those lads returned home with an all ireland medal and a shield, in a competition that some thought we should never have been allowed attend. Welcomed as heroes in their home parish, an experience that will live on in the hearts and minds of all those who took the journey North. I for one would like to thank the GAA for allowing us "B" teams experience the Feile.

To all those that think it was wrong to allow us to participate and that by being allowed to take part we have somehow lessened the importance of the competition, I apologise. We went with little expectation and asked our players for their best and no more . We would have been happy coming away with nothing, the important thing to have participated in what for us will be probably a once in their lifetime experience. To come back as Shield champions and to see that display of hurling was immense and will be something that will live on in this little parish of ours for years to come.

Sorry about the essay.

DC

nice_guy80

Decoda wrote: »

Some interesting views from both sides. Let me give you an "insider view" from a parent of one of an U14 team who did not win their County Feile but was allowed participate in the Feile in Ulster this year.

The team came from an extremely small parish with a population of 450. We can barely field a squad of 15. To travel to Feile we had to enlist 4 U12's. Only for the opportunity afforded us by the GAA with changing the format of the Feile we would never be able to participate, i.e. In the eyes of many we were not good enough. Year in year out we are beaten by the super clubs of the county. Teams that can field teams taken from squads numbering 30 to 40, have the best of equipment and training facilities, all weather pitches, year round training in state of the art indoor arenas. We have a field and a shipping container. And yet we still take part in the County Feile competition because of the love of the game.

This year we were afforded the opportunity to attend Feile 2014. It would be the first time our club had participated in Feile. Indeed it would be the first time that our coiste club had played outside of the county. The amount of time and effort that those parents put into raising the money needed for the bus and T-Shirts brought me to tears on many occasions. Our jerseys were years old, ripped and with the sponsors name faded. We ended up borrowing the local National school jerseys which were slightly too tight but I was reliably informed by our lads that the tighter the better, this was the fashion.

We were placed in one of the lower divisions, up against teams from across the country. We played in National stadiums, County Training facilities. It was a most memorable and fantastic experience for all these young men. An experience that they will remember for the rest of their lives. An experience that I was extremely proud to have been a part of.

We were beaten in our first 3 matches and placed in the Shield competition. We knew that we were outclassed and out manned but the spirit and determinination that those lads showed will stay with me for the rest of my life. We entered the Shield competition and won our Quarter Final by a point. We had nothing to lose as progressed to the Semi Final, telling our players how proud we were of them making it to the Shield Semi Finals. And then we won again. Even now the hairs are standing up on the back of my neck as I remember witnessing our team play some of their best hurling I've ever seen them play. They won the Shield Final.

Those lads returned home with an all ireland medal and a shield, in a competition that some thought we should never have been allowed attend. Welcomed as heroes in their home parish, an experience that will live on in the hearts and minds of all those who took the journey North. I for one would like to thank the GAA for allowing us "B" teams experience the Feile.

To all those that think it was wrong to allow us to participate and that by being allowed to take part we have somehow lessened the importance of the competition, I apologise. We went with little expectation and asked our players for their best and no more . We would have been happy coming away with nothing, the important thing to have participated in what for us will be probably a once in their lifetime experience. To come back as Shield champions and to see that display of hurling was immense and will be something that will live on in this little parish of ours for years to come.

Sorry about the essay.

DC

Bingo
But sure, the big clubs from big counties usually dictate policy. It happens in every county.
The competition and games should always be about the children, not the adults and clubs.

BenEadir

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

You can adapt events to de emphasise winning or change approaches of clubs/coaches to the whole Feile weekend and that to me, as an outsider, appears to be the case with the Feile now.

I agree that events can be adapted to de emphasise winning and the GAA have invested heavily in such changes i.e. the GO games format - http://www.gaa.ie/coaching-and-games-development/gogames

If they want a competition which isn't about winning why structure Feile as full 15 a side full rules hurling, especially when you've already invented an alternative format designed specifically to promote inclusiveness and de emphasise winning? My problem is the exclusion of over a 1,000 of the best players in the country. If de emphasising winning is so important why not make Feile a GO games format and allow everyone to play?

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

What have you done to make your grievances with the new competition proposals known to powers that be?

Nothing yet, I only found this information out last night, give me a chance I'll certainly be raising my concerns with my own club and I might drop an email to Croke Park also.

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

And the decision to make these changes is in no way discriminatory

Selectively gerrymandering who can and cannot play in an "All Ireland" competition based on the fact they have too much ability and live in one of the specified counties is pure and utter discrimination especially when a child of equal ability who just happens to live in a different county is allowed to play.

BenEadir

Decoda wrote: »

Some interesting views from both sides. Let me give you an "insider view" from a parent of one of an U14 team who did not win their County Feile but was allowed participate in the Feile in Ulster this year.

The team came from an extremely small parish with a population of 450. We can barely field a squad of 15. To travel to Feile we had to enlist 4 U12's. Only for the opportunity afforded us by the GAA with changing the format of the Feile we would never be able to participate, i.e. In the eyes of many we were not good enough. Year in year out we are beaten by the super clubs of the county. Teams that can field teams taken from squads numbering 30 to 40, have the best of equipment and training facilities, all weather pitches, year round training in state of the art indoor arenas. We have a field and a shipping container. And yet we still take part in the County Feile competition because of the love of the game.

This year we were afforded the opportunity to attend Feile 2014. It would be the first time our club had participated in Feile. Indeed it would be the first time that our coiste club had played outside of the county. The amount of time and effort that those parents put into raising the money needed for the bus and T-Shirts brought me to tears on many occasions. Our jerseys were years old, ripped and with the sponsors name faded. We ended up borrowing the local National school jerseys which were slightly too tight but I was reliably informed by our lads that the tighter the better, this was the fashion.

We were placed in one of the lower divisions, up against teams from across the country. We played in National stadiums, County Training facilities. It was a most memorable and fantastic experience for all these young men. An experience that they will remember for the rest of their lives. An experience that I was extremely proud to have been a part of.

We were beaten in our first 3 matches and placed in the Shield competition. We knew that we were outclassed and out manned but the spirit and determinination that those lads showed will stay with me for the rest of my life. We entered the Shield competition and won our Quarter Final by a point. We had nothing to lose as progressed to the Semi Final, telling our players how proud we were of them making it to the Shield Semi Finals. And then we won again. Even now the hairs are standing up on the back of my neck as I remember witnessing our team play some of their best hurling I've ever seen them play. They won the Shield Final.

Those lads returned home with an all ireland medal and a shield, in a competition that some thought we should never have been allowed attend. Welcomed as heroes in their home parish, an experience that will live on in the hearts and minds of all those who took the journey North. I for one would like to thank the GAA for allowing us "B" teams experience the Feile.

To all those that think it was wrong to allow us to participate and that by being allowed to take part we have somehow lessened the importance of the competition, I apologise. We went with little expectation and asked our players for their best and no more . We would have been happy coming away with nothing, the important thing to have participated in what for us will be probably a once in their lifetime experience. To come back as Shield champions and to see that display of hurling was immense and will be something that will live on in this little parish of ours for years to come.

Sorry about the essay.

DC

DC, that's a great story and EXACTLY what the GAA is all about, fair play to you, your club and your players. It will hopefully inspire the younger teams coming through to keep training and playing.

I have no problem whatsoever with so called weaker teams being invited to participate at Feile in a Shield or Bowl competition. It's only right that teams of similar ability are grouped together otherwise you get mismatches with the strong team hammering the weak team and the whole exercise is counter productive, the stronger team gain nothing from the game and the weaker team become totally demoralised.

The problem I have is that blanket banning the best teams from a selection of counties has the exact opposite effect to the effect an invite and participation had on your club and team. You revelled in the invite, it motivated you and your club and you all shared an experience which will stay with you all for life and go down in the annals of your club history.

Imagine how the 1,000 excluded hurlers must feel being denied such an experience? Would it not just be fairer to have an "A" competition for these boys to compete for? If all the teams in an "A" competition want to focus on high performance and winning how would that negatively impact on the other competitions for "B" teams who don't want it to be all about winning?

I'm very happy you had the opportunity to enjoy the Feile national finals wekend, I'm just a little sad that boys from my own club who have worked hard on the training field and are just as deserving as any young 14 year olds in the country are being denied the same opportunity. It will totally demotivate them, how can you explain to a group of 14 year olds that they are exluded from participating in the Feile Finals weekend, not because they didn't win their county play off (they'd understand that) but because of where they live?

Not cool and not very GAA is it?

Rebel norrie

Because it's held in a so called weaker hurling county. The gaa knew A teams from Kilkenny Tipp Clare. Cork Galway waterford. Wexford. Would be far too strong for their host clubs. So the B winners from those counties travel north to play in the national competition. Winners of the A comps in each county play in a provincial comp. When the Feile reverts to a traditional county it will go back to the A winners.

Breadandbutter

BenEadir wrote: »

DC, that's a great story and EXACTLY what the GAA is all about, fair play to you, your club and your players. It will hopefully inspire the younger teams coming through to keep training and playing.

I have no problem whatsoever with so called weaker teams being invited to participate at Feile in a Shield or Bowl competition. It's only right that teams of similar ability are grouped together otherwise you get mismatches with the strong team hammering the weak team and the whole exercise is counter productive, the stronger team gain nothing from the game and the weaker team become totally demoralised.

The problem I have is that blanket banning the best teams from a selection of counties has the exact opposite effect to the effect an invite and participation had on your club and team. You revelled in the invite, it motivated you and your club and you all shared an experience which will stay with you all for life and go down in the annals of your club history.

Imagine how the 1,000 excluded hurlers must feel being denied such an experience? Would it not just be fairer to have an "A" competition for these boys to compete for? If all the teams in an "A" competition want to focus on high performance and winning how would that negatively impact on the other competitions for "B" teams who don't want it to be all about winning?

I'm very happy you had the opportunity to enjoy the Feile national finals wekend, I'm just a little sad that boys from my own club who have worked hard on the training field and are just as deserving as any young 14 year olds in the country are being denied the same opportunity. It will totally demotivate them, how can you explain to a group of 14 year olds that they are exluded from participating in the Feile Finals weekend, not because they didn't win their county play off (they'd understand that) but because of where they live?

Not cool and not very GAA is it?

Thats a very emotive piece Decoda and as a parent myself I can understand it

Im delighted you were afforded the opportunity of attending Feile and I hope your club benefits as a result, and that hurling receives a boost and your hurlers continue to develop and love the game, this would appear to be the ethos within your club

Let me assure you it is equally as hard a slog for clubs with bigger numbers to fundraise for feile participation - bigger clubs if developed are struggling with huge debt, and if not developed have crumbling facilities so its not all roses for larger clubs - managing bigger numbers of players/parents and their expectations on those squads is also a difficult task

My understanding of the traditional feile is that there were multiple grades for boys and girls which allowed numerous teams of all abilities to participate - unfortunately in the bigger hurling orientated counties I accept this would have limit options for clubs due to the increased numbers of clubs competing.

I think the traditional feile was a prestigious tournament the top grade being the Christy Ring Cup.

If you look at the roll of honour, it is dominated by Kilkenny clubs - no surprises there. In Kilkenny the issue has been not which club travels but which club wins Feile.

I think it is somewhat diluted now with the changes and overtime may lose its gloss, although I have no issue with a tournament that facilitates a more inclusive policy, i think it was a mistake to take the 'premier' aspect from the higher grades - that just my opinion

Apologies if I'm repeating points already made

BenEadir

Rebel norrie wrote: »

Because it's held in a so called weaker hurling county.

Which reminds me, can anyone confirm where and when the national Feile hurling weekend is being held in 2015 and also, now that I understand it, when and where the provincial "A" play offs are being held?

Given the scale of the competitions (or with winning being de emphasised should it be demonstrations?) I assume the locations and schedules are already known but the only Feile info I can find on GAA.ie relates to this years competition.

The Lost Sheep

BenEadir wrote: »

I agree that events can be adapted to de emphasise winning and the GAA have invested heavily in such changes i.e. the GO games format - http://www.gaa.ie/coaching-and-games-development/gogames

If they want a competition which isn't about winning why structure Feile as full 15 a side full rules hurling, especially when you've already invented an alternative format designed specifically to promote inclusiveness and de emphasise winning? My problem is the exclusion of over a 1,000 of the best players in the country. If de emphasising winning is so important why not make Feile a GO games format and allow everyone to play?

Nothing yet, I only found this information out last night, give me a chance I'll certainly be raising my concerns with my own club and I might drop an email to Croke Park also.

Selectively gerrymandering who can and cannot play in an "All Ireland" competition based on the fact they have too much ability and live in one of the specified counties is pure and utter discrimination especially when a child of equal ability who just happens to live in a different county is allowed to play.

The Go Games don't really de emphasise the competitions. Their is still, in Tipp where im primarily based, A/B/C/D/E competitions etc and still Divisional and County finals.
Winning Feile shouldn't be the be all and end all. These changes should help that.
The 1000 players are still playing in a cross county competition. Do you think the kids who will be playing these new competitions will care about the changes? I don't think they will as they will still get to go away for a weekend and play several clubs from different counties and have the craic etc that they would have if no changes has been made. This isn't discrimination which you keep saying it is.

Decoda wrote: »

Some interesting views from both sides. Let me give you an "insider view" from a parent of one of an U14 team who did not win their County Feile but was allowed participate in the Feile in Ulster this year.

The team came from an extremely small parish with a population of 450. We can barely field a squad of 15. To travel to Feile we had to enlist 4 U12's. Only for the opportunity afforded us by the GAA with changing the format of the Feile we would never be able to participate, i.e. In the eyes of many we were not good enough. Year in year out we are beaten by the super clubs of the county. Teams that can field teams taken from squads numbering 30 to 40, have the best of equipment and training facilities, all weather pitches, year round training in state of the art indoor arenas. We have a field and a shipping container. And yet we still take part in the County Feile competition because of the love of the game.

This year we were afforded the opportunity to attend Feile 2014. It would be the first time our club had participated in Feile. Indeed it would be the first time that our coiste club had played outside of the county. The amount of time and effort that those parents put into raising the money needed for the bus and T-Shirts brought me to tears on many occasions. Our jerseys were years old, ripped and with the sponsors name faded. We ended up borrowing the local National school jerseys which were slightly too tight but I was reliably informed by our lads that the tighter the better, this was the fashion.

We were placed in one of the lower divisions, up against teams from across the country. We played in National stadiums, County Training facilities. It was a most memorable and fantastic experience for all these young men. An experience that they will remember for the rest of their lives. An experience that I was extremely proud to have been a part of.

We were beaten in our first 3 matches and placed in the Shield competition. We knew that we were outclassed and out manned but the spirit and determinination that those lads showed will stay with me for the rest of my life. We entered the Shield competition and won our Quarter Final by a point. We had nothing to lose as progressed to the Semi Final, telling our players how proud we were of them making it to the Shield Semi Finals. And then we won again. Even now the hairs are standing up on the back of my neck as I remember witnessing our team play some of their best hurling I've ever seen them play. They won the Shield Final.

Those lads returned home with an all ireland medal and a shield, in a competition that some thought we should never have been allowed attend. Welcomed as heroes in their home parish, an experience that will live on in the hearts and minds of all those who took the journey North. I for one would like to thank the GAA for allowing us "B" teams experience the Feile.

To all those that think it was wrong to allow us to participate and that by being allowed to take part we have somehow lessened the importance of the competition, I apologise. We went with little expectation and asked our players for their best and no more . We would have been happy coming away with nothing, the important thing to have participated in what for us will be probably a once in their lifetime experience. To come back as Shield champions and to see that display of hurling was immense and will be something that will live on in this little parish of ours for years to come.

Sorry about the essay.

DC

Don't be sorry about an excellent post like that. That's exactly what Feile should be about. These changes will help more stories like that and give more clubs from the stronger counties a chance to participate in cross county competition which is good for everyone

BenEadir

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

The Go Games don't really de emphasise the competitions.

You are 100% wrong about that see - http://www.dublingaagamesdevelopment.ie/wp-content/uploads/gogamesarticle.pdf

Taken from the opening statement explaining what why Go games were developed "In recent years, there has been a greater appreciation and increased recognition of the need to ensure that a child-centred approach is adopted where the promotion and development of Gaelic games is concerned. In other words, it should be a case of children first, winning second." If the GAA want Feile to be about participation and fun not competition and winning why is it a full 15 a side knockout format not the Go games format? It's absolutely illogical.

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Winning Feile shouldn't be the be all and end all.

It's not, it's about a lot of things such as social interaction, travel etc but there is a knock out competition so shouldn't the participants in the highest level event be there on merit? There's nothing stopping there being a "B" event and a "C" event which could be invitational to teams who would otherwise never qualify a la Decoda's team. Why discriminate against some rather than include all?

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

The 1000 players are still playing in a cross county competition. Do you think the kids who will be playing these new competitions will care about the changes? I don't think they will as they will still get to go away for a weekend and play several clubs from different counties and have the craic etc that they would have if no changes has been made. This isn't discrimination which you keep saying it is.

So they can't participate in the main event and are barred from even attempting to compete for the All Ireland Feile title but because they get to play in some scaled down provincial event with 2-3 other counties from their own province they'll be grand? Your arrogance is astounding.

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

These changes will help more stories like that

at the expense of allowing other boys who would otherwise be there on merit from having an opportunity to create and experience their own national Feile finals weekend story but sure what they hell, apparently they'll be happy enough playing in the Exclusion Games away from everyone else. Nice.

bruschi

Beneadir, can I ask what your personal involvement in this topic comes from? I just dont remember seeing much discussion from you before in the GAA forum and getting so involved. It just seems very out of place to be straight in on it. I dont mean any disrespect in that, anyone can post where they want, it just seems odd to me thats all.

The reasoning for the GAA changing the structure to the Feile was due to super clubs making a mockery of the tournament. Rumours of a Cork club travelling to Belfast to get the pitch dimensions, training days in Carton house, staying away in hotels etc. I understand the reasons for them wanting to change, as the ethos of the tournament was being completely lost. I'm not sure if this was the way to do it, but how can you tell a club to stop spending ridiculous amounts of money, or for over training players?

What was happening was a joke, and it ended up that only a handful of clubs had a chance of winning it. What the tournament is about was being lost.

munchkin_utd

bruschi wrote: »

The reasoning for the GAA changing the structure to the Feile was due to super clubs making a mockery of the tournament. Rumours of a Cork club travelling to Belfast to get the pitch dimensions, training days in Carton house, staying away in hotels etc. I understand the reasons for them wanting to change, as the ethos of the tournament was being completely lost. I'm not sure if this was the way to do it, but how can you tell a club to stop spending ridiculous amounts of money, or for over training players?

What was happening was a joke, and it ended up that only a handful of clubs had a chance of winning it. What the tournament is about was being lost.

there was indeed a training camp for one of the teams in Carton house, but they aparantly didnt go to spain.
http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=172160
The addressing of the funding of the camp in the article seems to miss the point. When you have 12 and 13 year olds acting as professional athletes in a competition that is there for the craic and social aspect, then something is very amiss.

EDIT: I agree that it should be go games to fit into the participation driven approach. Maybe you could propose that to your county board that this anomoly is fixed.
I suspect its simply because the complete abandonment of the old Feile format would be a step too far.
But indeed, a blitz type 7s tournament would be much better for kids than a long journey for possibly only 1 game.

The Lost Sheep

BenEadir wrote: »

You are 100% wrong about that see - http://www.dublingaagamesdevelopment.ie/wp-content/uploads/gogamesarticle.pdf

Taken from the opening statement explaining what why Go games were developed "In recent years, there has been a greater appreciation and increased recognition of the need to ensure that a child-centred approach is adopted where the promotion and development of Gaelic games is concerned. In other words, it should be a case of children first, winning second." If the GAA want Feile to be about participation and fun not competition and winning why is it a full 15 a side knockout format not the Go games format? It's absolutely illogical.

It's not, it's about a lot of things such as social interaction, travel etc but there is a knock out competition so shouldn't the participants in the highest level event be there on merit? There's nothing stopping there being a "B" event and a "C" event which could be invitational to teams who would otherwise never qualify a la Decoda's team. Why discriminate against some rather than include all?

So they can't participate in the main event and are barred from even attempting to compete for the All Ireland Feile title but because they get to play in some scaled down provincial event with 2-3 other counties from their own province they'll be grand? Your arrogance is astounding.

at the expense of allowing other boys who would otherwise be there on merit from having an opportunity to create and experience their own national Feile finals weekend story but sure what they hell, apparently they'll be happy enough playing in the Exclusion Games away from everyone else. Nice.

You can still have competition and not have things totally results driven through proper management.

The Go Games, in Tipperary where Im from, have at u12 A/B/C/D grades. Divisional and county finals at each grade. Still completely about the finals and winning.

The Feile is about social interaction etc and these changes don't change anything about that. Yes there is a knock out competition but that doesn't mean the best teams have to compete from each county. This decision doesn't discriminate against anyone.
You are being very hypocritical by talking about me being arrogant considering the way you have posted through this whole thread.
All are being included. All sides still get to play in a multi/pan county event with clubs from several counties. The kids don't lose out on playing a semi national/national competition.

BenEadir

Hi Bruschi, a great post with great questions. Let me respond in the order you asked them.

bruschi wrote: »

Beneadir, can I ask what your personal involvement in this topic comes from? I just dont remember seeing much discussion from you before in the GAA forum and getting so involved. It just seems very out of place to be straight in on it. I dont mean any disrespect in that, anyone can post where they want, it just seems odd to me thats all.

First of all no disrespect taken, I know it's not meant.

My personal involvement comes from being a GAA member and juvenile hurling coach myself. Feile is beginning to come onto the agenda. I was asked a question about it on a phone call with a parent yesterday evening and it dawned on me that all I really knew (or at least was led to believe) is that it is the biggest social and hurling event in a juvenile players career and is an All Ireland competition held over a weekend with thousands of players, coaches and families attending. Apart from that I didn't know where it was being held or when.

I normally get all the GAA related info I need in my local club and circle of friends so I don't use Boards for GAA related stuff but after talking to the parent last night I decided to do some online research, couldn't find much info on plans for next years event (other than the KK article criticising the changes) and decided to use Boards to throw out the questions in the OP.

I do use Boards daily for stuff I don't have access to in my daily group of friends or where I have a specific interest such as Android phones/tablets, Media Boxes, LFC supporters thread etc etc. Despite the amount of time taken by this one thread so far (a reminder perhaps to keep my GAA queries to myself in future) I really don't have time for long windy debates but this is an issue I feel quite strongly about.

bruschi wrote: »

The reasoning for the GAA changing the structure to the Feile was due to super clubs making a mockery of the tournament. Rumours of a Cork club travelling to Belfast to get the pitch dimensions, training days in Carton house, staying away in hotels etc.

I don't think rumours are a good enough reason to make changes in any walk of life. If true, such behaviour is, in my opinion, OTT and is not something I'd personally condone. I also don't know what benefit there would be to training days in Carton house, if you want to train extra to prepare for any tournament all you have to do is organise the sessions in your local club as usual. Having said that I really don't believe such behaviour happens, as you said it's just a rumour.

bruschi wrote: »

I understand the reasons for them wanting to change, as the ethos of the tournament was being completely lost. I'm not sure if this was the way to do it, but how can you tell a club to stop spending ridiculous amounts of money, or for over training players?

I absolutely don't think this is the way to do it. If the GAA want to make Feile a social event without an emphasis on it being a competitive tournament surely the solution isn't to make it a full 15 a side rules knock out competition? How many superclubs (if such clubs really exist) or otherwise consistent winners of Feile would go to any of the rumoured lengths to win it if a Go games format with the big soft ball etc etc? It would be great fun and everyone would have a lot of craic but it wouldn't be taken seriously as a competition and QED the GAA's objective would be achieved without discriminating against anyone.

BTW, if players are over trained they won't perform so paradoxically the more the alleged superclubs over train their players the better the chance correctly trained players will have to beat them.

bruschi wrote: »

What was happening was a joke, and it ended up that only a handful of clubs had a chance of winning it. What the tournament is about was being lost.

I'd have to disagree with you there Bruschi, perhaps a small number of clubs were consistently winning but that doesn't mean the other clubs didn't have a chance. It just means a small cohort of clubs prepared better, trained better and were more dedicated to performing at their best than the rest. Also, it's a complete myth that a small number of clubs were dominating the tournament. If you look back over the results of Division 1 (Christy Ring) for 11 years from 2003 to 2013 inclusive you'll see a total of 18 different teams competed in 11 finals. The max possible would be 22 different teams competing in 11 different finals.

Hardly hurling domination by a small number of teams is it, even if some did go OTT by measuring the pitch or having an off site training camp?

The winners of Feile should be winners on merit and not social engineering and discrimination. Has anyone thought about how the excluded thousand (possibly 2,000 hurlers if it's a total of 90 teams each of which has a squad of 22) young lads feel when they realise they are not allowed to participate? That's what pi$$es me off.

BenEadir

munchkin_utd wrote: »

there was indeed a training camp for one of the teams in Carton house, but they aparantly didnt go to spain.
http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=172160 The addressing of the funding of the camp in the article seems to miss the point. When you have 12 and 13 year olds acting as professional athletes in a competition that is there for the craic and social aspect, then something is very amiss.

It's clear from the article that one of the parents of the group had an opportunity to bring the lads there for a day so they took advantage of it. I seriously don't know any club with players of any age who wouldn't accept an invite to Carton House (a 30 minute drive from the St. Brigids clubhouse) or to a University facility if the option arose. To then frame that in the context of some super elite type training camp saying "12 and 13 year olds acting as professional athletes" is laughable and sensationalist. (not to mention in accurate as the lads would all have been 14)

munchkin_utd wrote: »

EDIT: I agree that it should be go games to fit into the participation driven approach. Maybe you could propose that to your county board that this anomoly is fixed.
I suspect its simply because the complete abandonment of the old Feile format would be a step too far. But indeed, a blitz type 7s tournament would be much better for kids than a long journey for possibly only 1 game.

If the format is full rules 15 a side in a knock out format the only possible outcome will be a fiercely competitive event. You can't blame the teams for playing by the set rules. What you can blame however is the exclusion of teams from participating in an event where on merit they would have a chance to succeed.

As I said in an earlier post I will indeed be making my feelings know via the official channels.

BenEadir

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

You can still have competition and not have things totally results driven through proper management.

It sounds to me like a Nirvana type proposal, good in theory but never ever witnessed by anyone in practice because guess what? 14 year old boys are naturally competitive, doesn't matter what they're doing they compete. It's just human nature whether we like it or not. Please do elaborate on how you'd like to see non competitive competitions work. I'm genuinely interested to know.

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

The Go Games, in Tipperary where Im from, have at u12 A/B/C/D grades. Divisional and county finals at each grade. Still completely about the finals and winning.

What have you done to show them the errors of their way? It's not like Tipperary is a shining beacon of how hurling should be played and has produced some of the best hurling teams and individual players ever to play the game. Oh hang on............... :rolleyes:

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

The Feile is about social interaction etc and these changes don't change anything about that. Yes there is a knock out competition but that doesn't mean the best teams have to compete from each county. This decision doesn't discriminate against anyone.
You are being very hypocritical by talking about me being arrogant considering the way you have posted through this whole thread.
All are being included. All sides still get to play in a multi/pan county event with clubs from several counties. The kids don't lose out on playing a semi national/national competition.

The more you trott this contradictory and downright incorrect rubbish out the clearer it is how little you actually know about the subject.

Stationmaster

I was heavily involved in organising the national feile in my home county a few years ago and am very disappointed at this decision by the GAA. There were 6 divisions for hurling which meant that all standards of hurlers were catered for. There were teams from every single county in Ireland as well as 2 overseas teams and every one of the 6 divisions was vigorously fought for by all involved. Yes, the standard of Division 1 was obviously miles ahead of Division 6 but in no way did it take from the commitment, effort and, most of all, enjoyment that was had by all.

BenEadir

Stationmaster wrote: »

I was heavily involved in organising the national feile in my home county a few years ago and am very disappointed at this decision by the GAA. There were 6 divisions for hurling which meant that all standards of hurlers were catered for. There were teams from every single county in Ireland as well as 2 overseas teams and every one of the 6 divisions was vigorously fought for by all involved. Yes, the standard of Division 1 was obviously miles ahead of Division 6 but in no way did it take from the commitment, effort and, most of all, enjoyment that was had by all.

Thank you for articulating my viewpoint far better and more succinctly than I can. Why exclude boys when restructuring the competition to accommodate all levels of ability would be so much more inclusive?

The Lost Sheep

BenEadir wrote: »

I don't think rumours are a good enough reason to make changes in any walk of life. If true, such behaviour is, in my opinion, OTT and is not something I'd personally condone. I also don't know what benefit there would be to training days in Carton house, if you want to train extra to prepare for any tournament all you have to do is organise the sessions in your local club as usual. Having said that I really don't believe such behaviour happens, as you said it's just a rumour.

Easy to see what training days like that bring. Top class facilities, if they spend night there(some have) you can treat the kids like pro's. I know you could easily do extra training in your local club but change of scenery to top class facilities.. I agree that Its probably only a rumour

I absolutely don't think this is the way to do it. If the GAA want to make Feile a social event without an emphasis on it being a competitive tournament surely the solution isn't to make it a full 15 a side rules knock out competition? How many superclubs (if such clubs really exist) or otherwise consistent winners of Feile would go to any of the rumoured lengths to win it if a Go games format with the big soft ball etc etc? It would be great fun and everyone would have a lot of craic but it wouldn't be taken seriously as a competition and QED the GAA's objective would be achieved without discriminating against anyone.

You don't have to remove whole competitive 15 a side knock out competition to alter the nature of the tournament. The changes proposed do alter this.

Hardly hurling domination by a small number of teams is it, even if some did go OTT by measuring the pitch or having an off site training camp?

The winners of Feile should be winners on merit and not social engineering and discrimination. Has anyone thought about how the excluded thousand (possibly 2,000 hurlers if it's a total of 90 teams each of which has a squad of 22) young lads feel when they realise they are not allowed to participate? That's what pi$$es me off.

There is no social engineering or discriminatory practices taking place. All players will still play in a multi county competition. The Tipperary and Kilkenny champions at A grade will still compete in a cross county competition and play sides they will not play in club competitions at age grade other than in feile. They will still be allowed participate in a cross county competition. Not the exact same one as teams from their club/county will have in the past but a cross county competition none the less.

BenEadir wrote: »

If the format is full rules 15 a side in a knock out format the only possible outcome will be a fiercely competitive event. You can't blame the teams for playing by the set rules. What you can blame however is the exclusion of teams from participating in an event where on merit they would have a chance to succeed.

As I said in an earlier post I will indeed be making my feelings know via the official channels.

Full rules 15 a side knockout doesn't ultimately lead to fiercely competive event. The teams that will not compete in what Feile has been since it begain will still play against sides from other counties to their own on a specific weekend and have all the trimmings that previous feile champions from their county will have recieved

BenEadir wrote: »

It sounds to me like a Nirvana type proposal, good in theory but never ever witnessed by anyone in practice because guess what? 14 year old boys are naturally competitive, doesn't matter what they're doing they compete. It's just human nature whether we like it or not. Please do elaborate on how you'd like to see non competitive competitions work. I'm genuinely interested to know.

What have you done to show them the errors of their way? It's not like Tipperary is a shining beacon of how hurling should be played and has produced some of the best hurling teams and individual players ever to play the game. Oh hang on............... :rolleyes:

The more you trott this contradictory and downright incorrect rubbish out the clearer it is how little you actually know about the subject.

Quit talking down to me and I know plenty on the process of helping develop underage players which is the basis of this discussion. The decision is for the betterment of hurling and is better for all involved. More players will get a chance to play a level playing field cross county under 14 competition etc

Breadandbutter

BenEadir wrote: »

It sounds to me like a Nirvana type proposal, good in theory but never ever witnessed by anyone in practice because guess what? 14 year old boys are naturally competitive, doesn't matter what they're doing they compete. It's just human nature whether we like it or not. Please do elaborate on how you'd like to see non competitive competitions work. I'm genuinely interested to know.

What have you done to show them the errors of their way? It's not like Tipperary is a shining beacon of how hurling should be played and has produced some of the best hurling teams and individual players ever to play the game. Oh hang on............... :rolleyes:

The more you trott this contradictory and downright incorrect rubbish out the clearer it is how little you actually know about the subject.

I agree in principle with a lot of your eloquently put points

I do know of a cork club who put kids up in a hotel one year at feile this was because the host club couldn't accomodate the panel within the club and a handful of players were accomodated at the hotel families were staying at

I recall hearing a dublin clubs preference was not to stay with host families but whether or not they stayed in hotels or not I don't know - this would be against the ethos but then some parents might have an issue with kids overnighting in strangers house - different strokes

I had also heard of a short warm weather camp-where supposedly a 'disadvantaged ' team received a subsidy and it was spent thus -

I don't believe in superclubs, I don't know of any, certainly outside the Pale

Any Feile tournament Ive been at over the years was a fantastic occasion forging communities within the GAA, and an incredibly rewarding experience for players parents and clubs alike

I think few would dispute that and again I believe the GAA have now made a balls of it

Our club went to one of the one day blitzes last year and there was nothing unique or special about it

Rebel norrie

Feile should go back to the old way.

BenEadir

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Easy to see what training days like that bring. Top class facilities, if they spend night there(some have) you can treat the kids like pro's. I know you could easily do extra training in your local club but change of scenery to top class facilities.. I agree that Its probably only a rumour

Carlton House was at best a chance opportunity which was like a day away treat. You can get the same effect from bringing a couple of senior county players to a training session or moving training to a local college for a few nights just to mix things up and mentally remind the lads that they are preparing for the biggest tournament of their juvenile career, if thats what you want to do. You don't have to be a super club or have lots of money/resources to do things like that.

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

You don't have to remove whole competitive 15 a side knock out competition to alter the nature of the tournament. The changes proposed do alter this.

The format is still a 15 a side full rules knock-out competition which will be fiercely contested. The only difference is the winners won't be winners on merit and overall standard will be lower. The teams who are allowed into the tournament will contest it just as vigorously as those who are excluded would have. If there isn't to be a fiercely contested competition it's the format that needs to change, not the participants.

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

There is no social engineering or discriminatory practices taking place. All players will still play in a multi county competition. The Tipperary and Kilkenny champions at A grade will still compete in a cross county competition and play sides they will not play in club competitions at age grade other than in feile. They will still be allowed participate in a cross county competition. Not the exact same one as teams from their club/county will have in the past but a cross county competition none the less.

Denial denial denial.

Q. If the excluded teams are having such a wonderful experience in their local provincial mini tournaments why not give them the choice of competing in the Feile National finals weekend or their special Exclusion Games event?

A. Because the GAA know they'd all prefer to be at the national event.

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

I know plenty on the process of helping develop underage players which is the basis of this discussion.

So why don't you elaborate on how your Nirvana plan would work or are you secretly the architect of the Exclusion Games?

BenEadir

BenEadir wrote: »

Which reminds me, can anyone confirm where and when the national Feile hurling weekend is being held in 2015 and also, now that I understand it, when and where the provincial "A" play offs are being held?

Given the scale of the competitions (or with winning being de emphasised should it be demonstrations?) I assume the locations and schedules are already known but the only Feile info I can find on GAA.ie relates to this years competition.

^^^^^ Anyone?

Stationmaster

BenEadir wrote: »

^^^^^ Anyone?

Mightn't necessarily be known yet - it's often December or even January before it's announced and I think it was even later this year with the new format.

BenEadir

Stationmaster wrote: »

Mightn't necessarily be known yet - it's often December or even January before it's announced and I think it was even later this year with the new format.

Thanks Stationmaster, is there even a particular weekend it's traditionally held e.g. club all Irelands on Paddy's day? Is Feile always held on the X weekend in Z month?

Stationmaster

BenEadir wrote: »

Thanks Stationmaster, is there even a particular weekend it's traditionally held e.g. club all Irelands on Paddy's day? Is Feile always held on the X weekend in Z month?

Off the top of my head it used to be held on either the 2nd or 3rd weekend in June and the footbal then 2/3 weeks later.Not sure exactly though when it was held this year (although it would obviously be easy enough to find out!).

BenEadir

Stationmaster wrote: »

Not sure exactly though when it was held this year (although it would obviously be easy enough to find out!).

True, I'm a lazy git at the best of times!

Breadandbutter

Stationmaster wrote: »

Off the top of my head it used to be held on either the 2nd or 3rd weekend in June and the footbal then 2/3 weeks later.Not sure exactly though when it was held this year (although it would obviously be easy enough to find out!).

Yeah usually both run off from mid June to mid July, with 2 weeks inbetween

The divisional blitzes took place then at a different date

One year it was moved to t Thursday to Sat which was a total balls, extra time off school/work

GAA bandies it about actually

nice_guy80

Rebel norrie wrote: »

Feile should go back to the old way.

the same few clubs getting to compete?

Rebel norrie

nice_guy80 wrote: »

the same few clubs getting to compete?

What same clubs. Just because it's on in ulster a team from Tipp. Cork. Kilkenny Galway can't compete in it. Joke.

nice_guy80

Rebel norrie wrote: »

What same clubs. Just because it's on in ulster a team from Tipp. Cork. Kilkenny Galway can't compete in it. Joke.

the old format basically meant the same few superclubs were winning through to represent their counties

my own club can barely field 15 players at U14, but this year were offered the chance to play at Feile. In the end we couldn't go due to families going on holidays, but no way would we ever have gotten that chance in the past.
Its meant to be a festival of hurling for youngsters, not an All Ireland competition

Rebel norrie

nice_guy80 wrote: »

the old format basically meant the same few superclubs were winning through to represent their counties

my own club can barely field 15 players at U14, but this year were offered the chance to play at Feile. In the end we couldn't go due to families going on holidays, but no way would we ever have gotten that chance in the past.
Its meant to be a festival of hurling for youngsters, not an All Ireland competition

Teams still have to win their own grade in their own county. Thus excluding the so called bigger clubs. My club cannot have any chance of playing national feile because we are not a b grade team. 4th teir grade hurling in cork.

Breadandbutter

Stationmaster wrote: »

Off the top of my head it used to be held on either the 2nd or 3rd weekend in June and the footbal then 2/3 weeks later.Not sure exactly though when it was held this year (although it would obviously be easy enough to find out!).

nice_guy80 wrote: »

the old format basically meant the same few superclubs were winning through to represent their counties

my own club can barely field 15 players at U14, but this year were offered the chance to play at Feile. In the end we couldn't go due to families going on holidays, but no way would we ever have gotten that chance in the past.
Its meant to be a festival of hurling for youngsters, not an All Ireland competition

Sorry Lads who are the Superclubs ? can you Name them ? I don't know any superclubs

interesting nice guy you make the point about families going on holidays - anytime my kids had a shot at Feile we would have checked out when and where twas on - nod to BenEadir - and wouldn't have gone on holidays - I'm not being smart but, if your committed to GAA you tend to be around when the games are on - maybe that's the difference

nice_guy80

Rebel norrie wrote: »

Teams still have to win their own grade in their own county. Thus excluding the so called bigger clubs. My club cannot have any chance of playing national feile because we are not a b grade team. 4th teir grade hurling in cork.

take that up with the Cork Feile Committee.
They should be running a regional Feile in Munster for clubs that cannot compete in the county competition.

The Lost Sheep

BenEadir wrote: »

Carlton House was at best a chance opportunity which was like a day away treat. You can get the same effect from bringing a couple of senior county players to a training session or moving training to a local college for a few nights just to mix things up and mentally remind the lads that they are preparing for the biggest tournament of their juvenile career, if thats what you want to do. You don't have to be a super club or have lots of money/resources to do things like that.

Maybe maybe not. You possibly could have got the same effect from a couple of intercounty players going to a training session but they chose not to

The format is still a 15 a side full rules knock-out competition which will be fiercely contested. The only difference is the winners won't be winners on merit and overall standard will be lower. The teams who are allowed into the tournament will contest it just as vigorously as those who are excluded would have. If there isn't to be a fiercely contested competition it's the format that needs to change, not the participants.

The winners will still be on merit. How are they not? Their is still competitive rounds, winner takes all. The competition will still be of a very high standard and more sides can compete and everyone does well out of these changes

Denial denial denial.

Q. If the excluded teams are having such a
wonderful experience in their local provincial mini tournaments why not give
them the choice of competing in the Feile National finals weekend or their
special Exclusion Games event?
A. Because the GAA know they'd all prefer to be at the national event.

So why don't you elaborate on how your Nirvana plan would work or are you secretly the architect of the Exclusion Games?

There is no "social engineering" taking place. This decision doesn't discriminate against anybody. Under what grounds are the youngsters that will be affected being discriminated against? And quit with the ridiculous "exclusion games" name.. Don't be ridiculous

Rebel norrie

nice_guy80 wrote: »

take that up with the Cork Feile Committee.
They should be running a regional Feile in Munster for clubs that cannot compete in the county competition.

They run a blitz for one day. That's not feiie.

BenEadir

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Maybe maybe not. You possibly could have got the same effect from a couple of intercounty players going to a training session but they chose not to

They chose to take an opportunity that was presented to then, so what? Are you seriously saying a days training in any location will give one team a serious advantage over all others or that it is unfair/cheating?

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

The winners will still be on merit. How are they not?

Becuase they didn't get into the competition on merit. They are only in the Feile national finals because higher performing teams are banned from entering.

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Their is still competitive rounds, winner takes all.

I thought the point of the changes was to de emphasise the competitive nature of Feile. Make your mind up. Which is it?

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

The competition will still be of a very high standard

Sure, that's why the teams who couldn't qualify on merit are there, because they play to a high standard :rolleyes:

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

and more sides can compete and everyone does well out of these changes

If by "everyone" you mean teams who can't get there on merit then yes, I guess you're right, "everyone" benefits, except the 1,980 young hurlers (I've now calculated the correct figure) who happen to be part of the 90 strongest squads in the country.

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

There is no "social engineering" taking place. This decision doesn't discriminate against anybody.

Of course not, just ask the 1,980 hurlers who are excluded, I'm sure they'd agree with you.

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

And quit with the ridiculous "exclusion games" name.. Don't be ridiculous

If the cap fits

BTW, you still haven't outlined your Nirvana plan for non competitive competitions.

nice_guy80

Rebel norrie wrote: »

They run a blitz for one day. That's not feiie.

Its more than most clubs get.
It has to be about including all clubs, not just the elite few

BenEadir

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Its more than most clubs get.
It has to be about including all clubs, not just the elite few

It's set up as an All Ireland knock out competition so it's hardly surprising that the best clubs constantly make up the teams at the Feile finals weekend is it?

If the objective is a fun filled social weekend with a hurling theme it's the structure which needs to change and simply excluding the best 1,980 hurlers in the country doesn't change the competition structure does it? It just discriminates against those hurlers.

Why not actually change the structure to facilitate the social fun weekend objective and have an annual raffle to see which X number of teams represent each country e.g. each county could send one A, one B and one C team (and one D team if necessary) who are chosen completely randomly and if a county doesn't have any A standard teams they just send B, C and D teams.

Every team in the county would have an equal chance of going and over time all clubs would get their turn. How complicated would that be?

Alternatively each club in a county could just take turns representing their country. Put them all in a hat and draw them out one by one. If there are 20 clubs in a county you'd know your representatives for the next 20 years!!!

Anything would be better than discriminating against some players simply because they are too good.