Too ugly to work upstairs

Recondite49

My girlfriend's younger sister works at a well know Department store.

Today she was told that she needed to go down to the packing room and help down there.

When she pointed out that this was not in her job description and below her pay grade, and her place was on the floor serving customers, she was told by the Acting Manageress that the Temp Staff were pretty and they should be the ones out front.

So my girlfriend's sister apparently is too ugly to be allowed to work above decks.

What the actual F***?!

This is the stuff headlines are made of...! Naturally we're all fuming, let's hope Senior Management put this c**t of a Manager in her place!

tempnam

What has she done about it??

GalwayGirl26

That is absolutely horrible. Totally unprofessional on the managers fault, not to mention that she comes across as a total bitch.
It's well known that certain shops will hire people based on looks (A&F and Hollister are very unapologic about it), but that doesn't make it any more acceptable.
Can she speak to HR about it?

hellsing101

What kind of shop is it, was it a case that her attire/cleanliness was in question or did he mean the way she physically looked?
If it was for the type of clothes she wore or maybe looking unkempt i think that employers can make comments like that without reprisal.

jimmii

Wow that is shocking! There are obviously places that do pick staff based on looks but you definitely aren't allowed to say it! She should definitely bring this to senior managements attention.

Recondite49

tempnam wrote: »

What has she done about it??

She's going to speak to the Senior Managers tomorrow. She is always well dressed. There is a standard uniform of sorts and she always keeps it clean and neat.

It's true she has a full figure but she's very pretty and most importantly good at her job, she doesn't belong with the Morlocks shovelling s**t around downstairs just because they have a few teenage skinny bitches temping this week!

I am sorry, I don't usually get angry online, it's a bad idea to let your personal feelings enter into this but am venting.

Recondite49

What makes it worse for me is that the Manager in question was a woman, who would certainly have been outraged if she herself had been passed over for promotion, just because she wasn't attractive enough to meet and greet customers. Why can't we rate people on ability only?

irelandrover

Recondite49 wrote: »

She's going to speak to the Senior Managers tomorrow. She is always well dressed. There is a standard uniform of sorts and she always keeps it clean and neat.

It's true she has a full figure but she's very pretty and most importantly good at her job, she doesn't belong with the Morlocks shovelling s**t around downstairs just because they have a few teenage skinny bitches temping this week!

I am sorry, I don't usually get angry online, it's a bad idea to let your personal feelings enter into this but am venting.

To be honest you lose all respect with the above quote.

Recondite49

irelandrover wrote: »

To be honest you lose all respect with the above quote.

Clearly irony is lost on you...

Dr. Lollington

Recondite49 wrote: »

Clearly irony is lost on you...

How was that comment in any way ironic?

Anyway, that's a really horrible situation that could have a deep impact on the poor girl.
It's shocking and if I was the Senior Manager I'd ensure the Manageress in question knew how damaging her words were. I'd reprimand her to the fullest and if possible fire her a**.

What age is the poor girl? What a sad society we live in, Christ

Recondite49

Dr. Lollington wrote: »

How was that comment in any way ironic?

Anyway, that's a really horrible situation that could have a deep impact on the poor girl.
It's shocking and if I was the Senior Manager I'd ensure the Manageress in question knew how damaging her words were. I'd reprimand her to the fullest and if possible fire her a**.

What age is the poor girl? What a sad society we live in, Christ

Well it was the irony that made it rather ironic... stop me if I'm getting too technical.

Anyway I refuse to be derailed! This is an awful state of affairs.

I know that the public are meant to be more likely to buy from more attractive people but when you look at in those terms, it seems to denigrate any effort to try to raise your corporate profile - not to mention the number of people (myself included!) who will never shop there again after they treat people this way.

DoctorEdgeWild

You get mad for someone being unfairly judged on their looks.

Then unfairly judge some people based on their looks.

The only irony is in the above, not in your original comments.


As an employer, I would want to know about behaviour like this immediately. If she is in a meeting with people more senior to her, she may wish to bring a colleague as meetings can go by very quickly and be hard to remember after the event, especially if she is emotionally heated, which would be understandable if events went as described in the OP. Tell her to keep calm and communicate up the chain of management, best of luck to her.

Nody

Recondite49 wrote: »

Well it was the irony that made it rather ironic... stop me if I'm getting too technical.

//MOD

No, let me stop you; you have the right to be outraged about it but that does not mean we'll accept you going around screaming and ranting about it. This is a discussion forum; not 4Chan or a blog so tone it down or enjoy temporary break to cool down.

//MOD

28064212

There is no law against discriminating based on looks. You can argue all you like about whether a company should do it, but the fact remains that they can choose to do it if they wish.

The only complaints the worker can have in this particular situation are

1. Being asked to do a job that's not in her contract, or
2. Bullying by the Acting Manager i.e. if she felt bullied by their choice of words

She does not have a right to decide that the company can not use looks to determine what positions workers are put in. She can complain to HR, but that's an entirely internal decision, and HR are entitled to agree with the Manager

OldNotWIse

Recondite49 wrote: »

She's going to speak to the Senior Managers tomorrow. She is always well dressed. There is a standard uniform of sorts and she always keeps it clean and neat.

It's true she has a full figure but she's very pretty and most importantly good at her job, she doesn't belong with the Morlocks shovelling s**t around downstairs just because they have a few teenage skinny bitches temping this week!

I am sorry, I don't usually get angry online, it's a bad idea to let your personal feelings enter into this but am venting.

Sorry I couldn't read your post...all the black pots and kettles obscured my view.

Recondite49

Nody wrote: »

//MOD

No, let me stop you; you have the right to be outraged about it but that does not mean we'll accept you going around screaming and ranting about it. This is a discussion forum; not 4Chan or a blog so tone it down or enjoy temporary break to cool down.

//MOD

Mod,

I was disputing someone who said they didn't find what I said ironic. I simply said that it was, there's no ranting or raving, please also tone down the bold text - I used it for one or two words, looks like you're shouting!

Recondite49

28064212 wrote: »

There is no law against discriminating based on looks. You can argue all you like about whether a company should do it, but the fact remains that they can choose to do it if they wish.

The only complaints the worker can have in this particular situation are

1. Being asked to do a job that's not in her contract, or
2. Bullying by the Acting Manager i.e. if she felt bullied by their choice of words

She does not have a right to decide that the company can not use looks to determine what positions workers are put in. She can complain to HR, but that's an entirely internal decision, and HR are entitled to agree with the Manager

I think she might have a case for gender discrimination as it's doubtful the same policy is in place for male employees but as you say the legal position is unclear.

I am happy to dispute this on ethical grounds, though.

Recondite49

DoctorEdgeWild wrote: »

You get mad for someone being unfairly judged on their looks.

Then unfairly judge some people based on their looks.

The only irony is in the above, not in your original comments.


As an employer, I would want to know about behaviour like this immediately. If she is in a meeting with people more senior to her, she may wish to bring a colleague as meetings can go by very quickly and be hard to remember after the event, especially if she is emotionally heated, which would be understandable if events went as described in the OP. Tell her to keep calm and communicate up the chain of management, best of luck to her.

I'm not unfairly judging anyone based on their looks, simply using the phrase in an ironic way - do we really have to do this? Why not talk about the issue at hand, pretty pleasE?

p.s I am not the one telling my female subordinates to stay away from the public view based on their looks! :-D

Recondite49

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Sorry I couldn't read your post...all the black pots and kettles obscured my view.

Another person who is unable to detect irony in a thread. Next please!

greendom

Thread is being derailed by the OP? That's not supposed to happen!

Recondite49

greendom wrote: »

Thread is being derailed by the OP? That's not supposed to happen!

I give up - Moderators, please remove the thread.

I am quite willing to tolerate my own stupidity and facetiousness but can only suffer it from others in small doses.

h2005

Recondite49 wrote: »

I give up - Moderators, please remove the thread.

I am quite willing to tolerate my own stupidity and facetiousness but can only suffer it from others in small doses.

If she's anything like yourself I can see why she's not out front!

RossieMan

She sounds like a right bitch, your GF's sister that is.

Her manager told her to go downstairs and do a job, she refused, then the manager told her why.

Seems fair enough to me. Not the managers fault shes ugly.

TBP

RossieMan wrote: »

She sounds like a right bitch, your GF's sister that is.

Her manager told her to go downstairs and do a job, she refused, then the manager told her why.

Seems fair enough to me. Not the managers fault shes ugly.

Exactly, she should have been damn glad to have a job in the first place and not be cribbing about how the Polish one's are better looking than her which means will sell more than her as lets face it we're all guilty of purchasing goods we don't really need just because there is a fine bit of gear serving behind the counter.

Harry Angstrom

He gone.....

RossieMan

thats brilliant.

hfallada

Recondite49 wrote: »

just because they have a few teenage skinny bitches temping this week!

I am sorry, I don't usually get angry online, it's a bad idea to let your personal feelings enter into this but am venting.

You are outraged your sister was treated in a negative way because of her looks. But yet you yourself are making a judgement on someone because of their appearance? How is the way her manager treated her based on her appearance, different to the way you are passing judgement on the younger staff on their appearance any different?

I have worked retail and when you are a manager. You put the most the efficient and productive employees on the floor, as it makes your life more productive. Maybe your sister isnt the amazing employee that she makes herself out to be. There is three sides to every story, the two persons story and the truth. OP I dont think you are getting the truth

Yellowblackbird

The acting manageress will just deny she made the comment.
Alternatively she could say she was being ironic.
When it's pointed out to her that she's a bit thick because she doesn't know what irony is, she can just say 'another one who can't detect irony' and smile.

Greenmachine

Way too many assumptions being made by the op here.

Mrs OBumble

I've given the OP a red-card, to make it very clear that arguing with a mod on-thread is not acceptable - even though s/he has now closed his/her account.

The thread is being left open for now, because it might actually help people to understand that physical attractiveness can be and is used as a discriminating factor except if it's a proxy for disability.

But it will be closed if behaviour isn't civil.

smcgiff

Yes, your friend should bring it to her manager's attention... if she want's her manager to get a promotion.

Do you think her manager thought this strategy up on her own? Of course this has been directed by her managers.

If you didn't come across as equally obnoxious as the floor manager you'd be getting more constructive advice.

I'd insert a joke about irony here but I think they've been pretty much covered.

mikemac1

Ryanair advertised for "young & dynamic" cabin crew and got nailed by the Equality Authority

So if they took out young and advertised for good looking people there would be no problem?

That's mad :pac:

smcgiff

mikemac1 wrote: »

Ryanair advertised for "young & dynamic" cabin crew and got nailed by the Equality Authority

So if they took out young and advertised for good looking people there would be no problem?

That's mad :pac:

Young implies a certain age and therefore not allowed.

However, who's doing who a favour here? How likely are they to hire an older applicant just because they were forced to remove the word young. I'm pretty... lets stop there.:D No? Okay, I'm pretty sure they ended up hiring young people anyway.

podge018

I think the OP done himself no favours but my read of what he said was a tongue-in-cheek reference to the awful humans that must work downstairs in the eyes of the manager. They weren't his own thoughts on those folk.

Possible irony in the sarcastic sense but that's never gonna come across easily written down on a forum.

Mrs OBumble

mikemac1 wrote: »

Ryanair advertised for "young & dynamic" cabin crew and got nailed by the Equality Authority

So if they took out young and advertised for good looking people there would be no problem?

That's mad :pac:

Correct.

I've met some ugly youngsters, and pretty oldsters.

DoYouEvenLift

That's the genetic lottery, some people win and a lot don't. It's just life. Humans, just like any animal, are visual creatures. At least human females have makeup to catch up and close the gap on any shortcomings compared to other better looking females, seems to be the done thing nowadays anyway. Wonder if men will start going out "with their faces on" anytime soon.

billion dollar baby

TBP wrote: »

Exactly, she should have been damn glad to have a job in the first place and not be cribbing about how the Polish one's are better looking than her which means will sell more than her as lets face it we're all guilty of purchasing goods we don't really need just because there is a fine bit of gear serving behind the counter.

Do people really do that? Maybe i'm just cheap but I don't think I've ever bought something I didn't want just because they person serving me was attractive.

TBP

billion dollar baby wrote: »

Do people really do that? Maybe i'm just cheap but I don't think I've ever bought something I didn't want just because they person serving me was attractive.

I'm always buying stuff that let alone do I not want but I don't even know what it is half the time in a Brazilian shop.

2Mad2BeMad

IMO

Calling someone ugly is an opinion, the gf's younger sister may be ugly to the manager, but to someone else she could be the best looking girl in the world.

Its true been attractive only helps sales ( I should know I've been in the stock room for fecking years )

anyhow its terrible carry on but for now its the younger sisters word against the manager.

If she complains, sure they will investigate but all the manager will say was, she was given a job to do and refused to do it. She should of complained to senior management immediately.

Hopefully she's ok now and can go into work feeling less insecure about herself since the incident. Nothing worse then an insecure teenage girl worrying about her weight, all sorts of trouble from that seen as my sister currently suffers from bulimia.


Regarding OP's outrage - People "downstairs" are workers too, the shop wouldn't function without them. So I don't think its fair to say you're gf's sister is somehow better then them. All workers are equal, don't ever think someone is better then you because then you will have already given up!




So you admit the temps are attractive? does the gf know by any chance you're eyeing them up? :L

Mrs OBumble

billion dollar baby wrote: »

Do people really do that? Maybe i'm just cheap but I don't think I've ever bought something I didn't want just because they person serving me was attractive.

Yes. Retail managers know this.

Calling some ugly is unacceptably rude, IMHO.

But making hiring and management decisions based on attractiveness happens all the time.

tyga

Why work when its all about the face?


Attractiveness matters so much in our ****ed up society. If you aren't at least a 6/10 facially then I'm afraid theres a great chance you won't make it unless your chosen career path is a highly technical one.

R.D. aka MR.D

podge018 wrote: »

I think the OP done himself no favours but my read of what he said was a tongue-in-cheek reference to the awful humans that must work downstairs in the eyes of the manager. They weren't his own thoughts on those folk.

Possible irony in the sarcastic sense but that's never gonna come across easily written down on a forum.

Personally, I think it was the fact that he didn't seem to understand that referring to a slim person as a 'skinny bitch' is just as bad as someone being called a 'fat cow'.

ShatterProof

Word on the street is OP was outraged because GF and her sister are identical twins.......

enda1

I think it's fair enough in principle, but not in this specific case. I've no problem with hiring front line staff based on their looks. These things make a measurable and significant impact on business and sales. Like it or lump it, it's true.

Barely There

Recondite49 wrote: »

Clearly irony is lost on you...

People who obviously don't understand irony, accusing other poster's of not understanding irony - that's kinda ironic.

Alf Veedersane

tyga wrote: »

Why work when its all about the face?

It's not.

It's all about the bass.

Nody

//MOD

And with that we close the thread; see you all around next week, same channel at the same time.

//MOD