Ireland vs Springboks, 8/11/2014. KO 17:30GMT

Losty Dublin

Ireland vs South Africa. Aviva Stadium, Dublin Saturday 8th November, 2014. Live TV on RTE 2/HD from 4:30PM and Sky Sports 2/HD. Please note that the show is Geo Locked to the Republic of Ireland on cable, web stream and satellite.

Ireland.

15. Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster) 55
14. Tommy Bowe (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster) 54
13. Jared Payne (Ulster) *
12. Robbie Henshaw (Buccaneers/Connacht) 3
11. Simon Zebo (Cork Constitution/Munster) 8
10. Jonathan Sexton (Racing Metro 92) 45
9. Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster) 28
1. Jack McGrath (St. Mary's College/Leinster) 10
2. Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster) 35
3. Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster) 41
4. Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster) 17
5. Paul O'Connell (Young Munster/Munster) 94 (capt)
6. Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster) 23
7. Chris Henry (Malone/Ulster) 16
8. Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster) 67

Replacements:

16. Richardt Strauss (Old Wesley/Leinster) 4
17. Dave Kilcoyne (UL Bohemians/Munster) 10
18. Rodney Ah You (Corinthians/Connacht) 1
19. Mike McCarthy (Lansdowne/Leinster) 15
20. Rhys Ruddock (St. Mary's College/Leinster) 3
21. Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster) 55
22. Ian Madigan (Blackrock College/Leinster) 10
23. Felix Jones (Shannon/Munster) 6

* Denotes uncapped player

South Africa.

15. Willie le Roux (FS Cheetahs) 21
14. Cornal Hendricks (FS Cheetahs) 9
13. Jan Serfontein (Blue Bulls) 16
12. Jean de Villiers (Western Province) 102 (capt)
11. Bryan Habana (Toulon) 103
10. Handré Pollard (Blue Bulls) 6
9. Francois Hougaard (Blue Bulls) 32
1. Tendai Mtawarira (Sharks) 61
2. Bismarck du Plessis (Sharks) 66
3. Jannie du Plessis (Sharks) 60
4. Eben Etzebeth (Western Province) 29
5. Victor Matfield (Blue Bulls) 117
6. Marcell Coetzee (Sharks) 22
7. Teboho 'Oupa' Mohoje (FS Cheetahs) 3
8. Duane Vermeulen (Western Province) 25

Replacements:

16. Adriaan Strauss (FS Cheetahs) 40
17. Trevor Nyakane (FS Cheetahs) 9
18. Coenie Oosthuizen (FS Cheetahs) 17
19. Bakkies Botha (Toulon) 83
20. Schalk Burger (Suntory) 73
21. Cobus Reinach (Sharks) 2
22. Pat Lambie (Sharks) 36
23. JP Pietersen (Panasonic) 56

Referee; Romaine Poite (FFR). Assistant Referees; JP Doyle (RFU), Alexandre Ruiz (FFR) TMO; Jim Yullie (SRU)

Preview. Autumn means a lot of things to me. Fallen leafs. Rain. Blocked drains courtesy of rain and fallen leafs. The smell of turf fires. Christmas decorations in the shops and of course, the small matter of international rugby tests.

This Saturday sees the Springboks play Ireland in the first of three international tests at the Aviva. A lot has happened since their last visit here, not least to Ireland. This time last year Joe Schmidt make an indifferent start as Irish Coach, being soundly beaten by an unimpressive Australia after a slow opening victory to Samoa which failed to impressed. And then, in the blink of an unsuspecting eye there was that game against the All Blacks

Since then things improved and in style; a narrow defeat at Twickenham was the difference between 6N and Grand Slam Success; this was followed by hard grafted wins away to the Pumas.

However, things change and they must. Last season, the initial worry was who will play in the centre for the long term. This week it was more about who is fit to play at all; no less that 17 Irish players are injured and unable to play a part on Saturday. Rory Best is out as is Sean O’Brien, D’arcy isn’t playing either as well and as for the rest of the walking wounded, well it’s a verifiable who’s who of quality footballers. And of those who are available to play, even archetype starters such as Mike Ross, Jonathan Sexton, Tommy Bowe and Robert Kearney have been injury worries in the last week or two.

In relation to the visitors, they come to Ireland having had a strong season that sees them solidly ranked as second best team in the world and a victory over the All Blacks a month ago. Their squad for Saturday is the same from Jo’Berg bar for Loosehead Coenie Oosthuizen replacing injured Marcel van der Merwe; Handre Pollack again starting at fly half though Ulsters Piennar misses out via injury.



Head to Head. Injuries aside, the Irish Pack is still immensely strong. Jack McGrath is scrummaging really well this season and richly deserves his call up, the presence of Mike Ross is a big plus while Sean Cronin adds running lines in the loose that many flankers can but dream about. Toner and O’Connell are arguably the best Irish Second row partnership in donkey years and it was probably the difference we missed in seasons previous; they will definitely have the hang time in the line out to harass record capped Victor Matfield and Eben Etzebeth.

From scrum half onwards it gets to be something of a lottery for the visitors. Sexton is a far superior out half to Pollard but, kicking aside, he has the makings of being a dominant half back in years to come. Jean de Villiers can break tackles with the best of them and in Henshaw and Payne he has two young yet big hitting markers who can run and run hard at you. Munster's Zebo starts afters showing great early season form while teammate Felix Jones is called up onto the bench as well; both will need big games if they are to allay their critics.

Verdict. It goes without saying that SA will be geed up for Saturday, both to keep a winning run up after the famous NZ win and to keep on playing their hard and, at times, dirty game. While we have a team that are capable of competing, scoring and even beating them on a 15 versus 15 basis, the winning of this game will be on attrition which naturally puts the focus onto the bench as well as the likes of Heaslip lasting the full game.



Given the level of injuries that Ireland are lumbered with, this suggests that we may not hold up for the full 80 paper quality wise compared to the visitors. Rickhard Strauss returns to the fold while some will be surprised to see Connacht Rodney Ah Oh make it to the bench, a reward well deserved given his performances in the tight. We need to keep them try free for as long as possible, exploit any penalty chances with clean line out and 3 pointers and expect the bench to keep the same work rate up.

The question is, can we? Personally I remain unconvinced. I say South Africa to win by 13-15 points.

vienne86

Thanks for the write up! Unfortunately I am inclined to agree with you re the bench - if/when we resort to them, we will be seriously weakened. And the score? Well, I hope you're wrong, but your prediction is plausibe.

heybaby

Alas I cant see anything other than a BOK win here. While we are 6 nations champions, that was 6 months ago and much of that momentum is gone now. We are also in a post BOD era which cant be overestimated.

Playing this untested 12 / 13 combination against the BOKs will be a massive test. Healy and SOBs absence is huge especially against such a physical team. Throw in all the other injuries and the fact that this is our first game of the season, we're playing a boks team who just beat the All blacks and who are playing both an attritional game combined with an uncharacteristic expansive game and Ireland are really up against it.

GiftofGab

Does anybody know what radio frequency the referee is on for Saturday?

Don’t fancy forking our €10/€15 for a referee radio.

former legend

I look at the Boks team and the only possible area of weakness is the 9-10 partnership. Hougaard is only OK and Pollard is very talented but inexperienced, that would seem to be the only possible chink in the armour, that they might have an off-day.

South Africa by 7-10 I'd say.

George Hook

The Boks have also had a bit of time off and are well rested. If it rains the scores should be tight, I'm thinking we'll go down 3 tries to 1.

I can't help but think of the last time we made Ross play when wasn't 100% fit.. agaisnt England when he had to go off early, in that unspeakable test where our scrum was destroyed.

Larbre34

GiftofGab wrote: »

Does anybody know what radio frequency the referee is on for Saturday?

Don’t fancy forking our €10/€15 for a referee radio.

Its outside the commercial band, so your off the shelf tranny wont work anyway. If you have a scanner type you should pick it up south of 87 Mhz

George Hook

former legend wrote: »

I look at the Boks team and the only possible area of weakness is the 9-10 partnership. Hougaard is only OK and Pollard is very talented but inexperienced, that would seem to be the only possible chink in the armour, that they might have an off-day.

South Africa by 7-10 I'd say.

The other, if exploitable is that Serfontien normally plays 12 and when SA defend he switches with DeVilliers. I don't know how we can exploit it but I'm sure Joe has seen it.

awec

Well need a performance like the one against the All Blacks last year to get anything from this game.

rrpc

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Given the level of injuries that Ireland are lumbered with, this suggests that we may not hold up for the full 80 paper quality wise compared to the visitors. Rickhard Strauss returns to the fold while some will be surprised to see Connacht Rodney Ah Oh make it to the bench, a reward well deserved given his performances in the tight. We need to keep them try free for as long as possible, exploit any penalty chances with clean line out and 3 pointers and expect the bench to keep the same work rate up.

The question is, can we? Personally I remain unconvinced. I say South Africa to win by 13-15 points.

That's a much better name tbf

Losty Dublin

rrpc wrote: »

That's a much better name tbf

It suits him, that's for sure! :pac:

GiftofGab

Larbre34 wrote: »

Its outside the commercial band, so your off the shelf tranny wont work anyway. If you have a scanner type you should pick it up south of 87 Mhz

thanks, is there an app for that?

Tox56

awec wrote: »

Well need a performance like the one against the All Blacks last year to get anything from this game.

Problem is a lot of our biggest performers in that game aren't there (Healy, SOB, Best, D'Arcy). SOB in particular was like a man possessed.

rrpc

Putinovsky wrote: »

Felix Jones shouldn't be anywhere near that bench. If we are that short then the wise option would have been to start D'arcy and have Henshaw on the bench as cover. No offence to Felix Jones but he was one of the most overhyped players in Irish rugby and he wouldn't stand out at AIL level.

Archer nearly made the bench that just goes to show how bad the injury crises is! I'm hoping we don't get thumped. Poorest Irish 22 in a long time when you consider form as well as quality.

Lucky it's a 23 man squad so.

It's actually not that bad, Kidney had a much poorer squad at the end of his last 6N. Do you not remember POM going on the wing?

The pack is almost as good as it could be with Cian Healy and Sean O'Brien being the notables missing but with pretty good replacements if you're to be fair. Half backs couldn't really be better and are arguably the best in the NH currently; certainly in terms of a Lions selection.

Backs are also pretty strong, but since BOD is gone, we can't really complain that nothing is being done to replace him. Zebo, Bowe and Kearney are about as good as it gets. Luke Fitz may or may not challenge for a starting place in the future, but it's a close call either way.

It's only on the bench that things get a bit weaker because of injuries but most of the players there could be expected to put in a solid twenty minutes when/if called for.

Eat My Point

Putinovsky wrote: »

Felix Jones shouldn't be anywhere near that bench. If we are that short then the wise option would have been to start D'arcy and have Henshaw on the bench as cover. No offence to Felix Jones but he was one of the most overhyped players in Irish rugby and he wouldn't stand out at AIL level.

Archer nearly made the bench that just goes to show how bad the injury crises is! I'm hoping we don't get thumped. Poorest Irish 22 in a long time when you consider form as well as quality.

It's almost as good as the pack, half backs and back three that won last years six nations. One of the centers has retired and the other was not able to train due to injury and so wasn't selected. The bench is weaker than normal (but only in the forwards really) because there are is an unprecedented injury list. It's not that bad.

rrpc

Mr Hopper wrote: »

Disgrace that Payne has been picked. He isn't irish. We need to stick with homegrown players. This should be looked at on an international basis.

That's right. When New Zealand stop pillaging the Pacific Islands we'll stop pillaging New Zealand coaches and players.

Pudsy33

Mr Hopper wrote: »

Disgrace that Payne has been picked. He isn't irish. We need to stick with homegrown players. This should be looked at on an international basis.

Why do we need to stick to Irish players? Payne has been here long enough to become a citizen. He's contributed as much to Irish rugby as many of the others in the squad. He's one of the best players available. We would he mad not to pick him.

England are capping a Fijian soldier and France a South African and they've no qualms about it.

Edit: I presume you're equally outraged by Ah You and Strauss?

Losty Dublin

George Hook wrote: »

I can't help but think of the last time we made Ross play when wasn't 100% fit.. agaisnt England when he had to go off early, in that unspeakable test where our scrum was destroyed.

The problem that day was that DK was limited to a match day 22. Either you risked going short on back subs or else you picked a Janus prop somewhere within the 22.

Ross can play both sides but, having being doubtful that day, went off injured. Court was the only front row option and although he has played tight head, he is best at loose head. He had a mare of a game and was murdered in an already weak scrum facing an already dominant English tight 5; in the end he too was injured and it made things worse.

chris85

Mr Hopper wrote: »

A lot of the Pacific Islands are under the rule or protectionship of NZ though.

No issues with Strauss though, just singling out Payne?

Back on topic, I am actually excited to see how the centre partnership will go. Considering the amount of injuries we have Joe has done well to pick a decent starting XV. I am ok with the bench apart from Jones. I know its too early for Fitzgerald but would love to see him train well and get some time against Georgia and push for inclusion for the Australia game @ 23.

awec

Mr Hopper wrote: »

Disgrace that Payne has been picked. He isn't irish. We need to stick with homegrown players. This should be looked at on an international basis.

Mod - banned.

No need to reply to Mr Hopper folks, he won't be coming back.

thomond2006

rrpc wrote: »

That's right. When New Zealand stop pillaging the Pacific Islands we'll stop pillaging New Zealand coaches and players.

It's the other way round actually.

Fireball07

Putinovsky wrote: »

Felix Jones shouldn't be anywhere near that bench. If we are that short then the wise option would have been to start D'arcy and have Henshaw on the bench as cover. No offence to Felix Jones but he was one of the most overhyped players in Irish rugby and he wouldn't stand out at AIL level.

Archer nearly made the bench that just goes to show how bad the injury crises is! I'm hoping we don't get thumped. Poorest Irish 22 in a long time when you consider form as well as quality.

I don't agree with Jones being on the bench, I would have picked Gilroy or Olding for sure. But he's been pretty good so far this season and I'm pretty sure he'd be one of the best players in the AIL. The reason he shouldn't be on the bench is he is just a full-back, he really isn't a wing.


As for Archer... well before White and Ah You became IQ, he would have been 3rd-choice behind Ross & Moore. He's now 3rd-choice behind Ross & Ah You. He's not a great scrummager, but he is better than he used to be and is very useful around the park. I wouldn't ever want him playing against SA but it's better than the days where we had Ross & no one else, or Hayes and no one else.

the baby bull elephant

Pudsy33 wrote: »

Why do we need to stick to Irish players? Payne has been here long enough to become a citizen. He's contributed as much to Irish rugby as many of the others in the squad. He's one of the best players available. We would he mad not to pick him.

England are capping a Fijian soldier and France a South African and they've no qualms about it.

Edit: I presume you're equally outraged by Ah You and Strauss?

Someone who is willing to potentially die for a country is allowed play rugby for them as far as I'm concerned.

thomond2006

Fireball07 wrote: »

I wouldn't ever want him playing against SA but it's better than the days where we had Ross & no one else, or Hayes and no one else.

Nothing is better than the days we had Hayes. Nothing.

skippymac6

former legend wrote: »

I look at the Boks team and the only possible area of weakness is the 9-10 partnership. Hougaard is only OK and Pollard is very talented but inexperienced, that would seem to be the only possible chink in the armour, that they might have an off-day.

South Africa by 7-10 I'd say.

Their flankers while industrious are no more than that. Vermuleun is up their with Kieran Read as the best in the business but has had limited time training this week with a muscle injury, hopefully he's not 100%.

Maybe clutching at straws but if he is not 100%, we might be able to edge the key back row area.

George Hook

skippymac6 wrote: »

Their flankers while industrious are no more than that. Vermuleun is up their with Kieran Read as the best in the business but has had limited time training this week with a muscle injury, hopefully he's not 100%.

Maybe clutching at straws but if he is not 100%, we might be able to edge the key back row area.

He got MOTM when he played with injured rib cartilage agaisnt the All Blacks last month.

skippymac6

George Hook wrote: »

He got MOTM when he played with injured rib cartilage agaisnt the All Blacks last month.

As I said it may be clutching at straws but Heaslip is in great form. I'd certainly take our flankers ahead of theirs regardless. Louw is a big loss for them.

PTH2009

Will Ireland be wearing White and South Africa green ??

the last time i was at a ire vs SAF match in croke park in 2009 ireland were wearing there away kit

Yeah_Right

PTH2009 wrote: »

Will Ireland be wearing White and South Africa green ??

the last time i was at a ire vs SAF match in croke park in 2009 ireland were wearing there away kit

In rugby it's the home that changes kit so yes, Ireland should be in their alternate strip.

And I'm glad that Ireland has gone back white jerseys for their alternate. They just looked wrong in black.

CatFromHue

I hope so.

The Ireland black jersey and the SA green jersey are too similar I think.

bilston

PTH2009 wrote: »

Will Ireland be wearing White and South Africa green ??

the last time i was at a ire vs SAF match in croke park in 2009 ireland were wearing there away kit

That is usually the protocol at test level.

I have that white jersey you're talking about from 2009. I've always liked it, or at least as much as you can like the new style of rugby jersey without the collar.

Tox56

PTH2009 wrote: »

Will Ireland be wearing White and South Africa green ??

the last time i was at a ire vs SAF match in croke park in 2009 ireland were wearing there away kit

They probably will, in 2012 Ireland wore their away kit, but the time before that Ireland wore green and SA wore white so maybe not

leakyboots

Mike MacCarthy ahead of Dave Foley? Funny one that considering form. Surprised and happy for Felix Jones, I had him written off a year ago, worked his way back into the frame

edit: Why is he there though, when you've Payne and Henshaw??

shuffol

Tox56 wrote: »

He could have played, if it was Leinster he would have, but Schmidt puts a huge amount of importance on training. Maybe too much, I think D'Arcy is badly needed here.

I think its the combination that Schmidt is putting importance on, because it was a whole new center combination whether D'arcy was playing or not Schmidt opted to go with the one that has trained together which is a fair call. I'd love to know who would've been preferred at 13 though had D'arcy been fine.

The other issue is that this will probably be the extent of our experimentation at 12 for the AI's, I assume Schmidt will want D'arcy to get gametime with whoever the preferred combination will be for Australia in the Georgia game.

irishbucsfan

leakyboots wrote: »

Mike MacCarthy ahead of Dave Foley? Funny one that considering form. Surprised and happy for Felix Jones, I had him written off a year ago, worked his way back into the frame.

The only selection I wouldn't agree with really. I'm guessing McCarthy's familiarity with the boks swung thr decision in his favour.

Neil3030

Couple of thoughts in no particular order of importance:

- The SA scrum is good but by no means a world beater. Pumas taught them a lesson in this year's championship for example. Jack is in great form and if Ross is fit, I see us having the tools to secure our own ball and not give away penalties on their put ins. So no concerns here. In fact it'd be class if Jack catches the opening kickoff and throws the ball straight down to concede a scrum. Welcome to Dublin, f*ckers.

- Glasgow did a job on Montpellier's maul a few weeks ago and the latter had no response. While SA have more strings to the bow, you still take a huge weapon away from them by stopping the maul; and I just can't comprehend a world where Joe Schmidt isn't ready for a team with such an obvious strength. Paulie and Mr Tickle will have a few tricks up their lengthy sleeves.

- Notwithstanding injuries to other wingers, it's great that Zebo has earned Joe's trust to start in such a big game. On form, he's one of the few players we have that can conjure up something special and if nothing else, the portmanteau "Z-Bowe" offers Irish rugby a wordplay up on which it would be sincerely foolish to pass.

- I've heard the Saffers were out on the jar as soon as they got to Dublin. This is tremendous news. Not that it will impact on the game in any way shape or form, I just admire this commitment to the sesh.

Rightwing

Toner could be seriously exposed here. POC will have to have 1 of his better games.

Pudsy33

Rightwing wrote: »

Toner could be seriously exposed here. POC will have to have 1 of his better games.

Toner hasn't been exposed in countless top European games and was spectacular against NZ. I think he'll be fine....

ednwireland

Going to my first ever match at the aviva managed to be in Dublin this weekend and got tickets. Hoping for a great Ireland performance

Fireball07

irishbucsfan wrote: »

The only selection I wouldn't agree with really. I'm guessing McCarthy's familiarity with the boks swung thr decision in his favour.

You'd have taken Henshaw at 12, Marmion at 21 and Jones at 23?

Neil3030 wrote: »

Notwithstanding injuries to other wingers, it's great that Zebo has earned Joe's trust to start in such a big game. On form, he's one of the few players we have that can conjure up something special and if nothing else, the portmanteau "Z-Bowe" offers Irish rugby a wordplay up on which it would be sincerely foolish to pass.

I know you say "notwithstanding injuries to other wingers" but really, Joe had no other option. Gilroy is the only other realistic option and Zebo has been in better form than him for the last year and a bit. Gilroy has done well in recent weeks and I'm surprised not to see him in the 23 but even if Joe wasn't happy with Zebo's overall game, he's realistically going to pick him over Fanning or Conway or Healy no matter what.


We'll see how he views Zebo when he's in direct competition with Kearney, Trimble, McFadden, Fitzgerald, Earls, Bowe and Gilroy (hopefully we'll have them all available one day).

Losty Dublin

Rightwing wrote: »

Toner could be seriously exposed here. POC will have to have 1 of his better games.

Toner was the most improved player of last season by miles. Lunacy to think him as a weak link on Saturday.

leonard7

so strange seeing kearney called robert haha. good write up!

In regards to the team my opinion is nothing i havent already seen written so ill just keep quiet on that; overall though, happy and hopeful.

WeleaseWoderick

Happy enough with the team.

Can see quite a few changes coming for the Georgia game and then a mix of the teams from the first 2 games for the Australia match.

Excited to see a very different style of centre partnership for Ireland. Can't imagine it will be the long term partnership but will be interesting to see how they go together.

McCarthy ahead of Foley looks to be a decision based on bringing on experience from the bench. I'd imagine Foley will get a start against Georgia and may push his way into the 23 for the Australia game.

Jones at 23 seems a little odd given the fullback cover already on the pitch but Joe has always been a big fan of his and I'd say Kearney may be slightly off 100% still.

I had been fairly pessimistic about the game in the last week, but the closer it gets, the more optimistic I'm getting. Having said that, I think their full strength squad may just edge us in this encounter.

aimee1

WeleaseWoderick wrote: »

Happy enough with the team.

Can see quite a few changes coming for the Georgia game and then a mix of the teams from the first 2 games for the Australia match.

Excited to see a very different style of centre partnership for Ireland. Can't imagine it will be the long term partnership but will be interesting to see how they go together.

McCarthy ahead of Foley looks to be a decision based on bringing on experience from the bench. I'd imagine Foley will get a start against Georgia and may push his way into the 23 for the Australia game.

Jones at 23 seems a little odd given the fullback cover already on the pitch but Joe has always been a big fan of his and I'd say Kearney may be slightly off 100% still.


I had been fairly pessimistic about the game in the last week, but the closer it gets, the more optimistic I'm getting. Having said that, I think their full strength squad may just edge us in this encounter.

I think Jones makes sense if JS hopes to give 12 and 13 a full game together against a top tier team with a view on the aussie game & perhaps the 6n, so an outside back on the bench with 10s [one starting and one on bench] who could switch to centre if absolutely necessary..... bases covered barring major injuries on saturday, probably would have been McFadden in 23 shirt if he was available.

edit : especially if RK isnt 100%

leakyboots

irishbucsfan wrote: »

The only selection I wouldn't agree with really. I'm guessing McCarthy's familiarity with the boks swung thr decision in his favour.

How many times has he played the Boks? Not sniping, just curious?

Hagz

leakyboots wrote: »

How many times has he played the Boks? Not sniping, just curious?

1 time

donfers

South Africa by 15, we're kittens to their bobcats plus they are match hardened and it's our first game together in a while, in addition it's almost their strongest possible 15 whereas we are missing many of our key players - we are certainties to lose, put the mortgage on it or whatever you can afford because whatever odds the boks are they aren't short enough

aimee1

donfers wrote: »

South Africa by 15, we're kittens to their bobcats plus they are match hardened and it's our first game together in a while, in addition it's almost their strongest possible 15 whereas we are missing many of our key players - we are certainties to lose, put the mortgage on it or whatever you can afford because whatever odds the boks are they aren't short enough

NZ, Aus, SA, Arg 4/1 on betfair. Have €10 on that.

former legend

galwaylad14 wrote: »

People are getting way too caught up in who can play first centre and who can play second centre. They're professional rugby players, if they can play in one position they can play the other. In both cases you've a man inside you and a man outside you when you're defending a set piece, in both cases you need to be able to pass and tackle and carry the ball. The positions are very similiar. And anyway modern rugby is so fluid that apart from set pieces the only players that consistently stay in their positions in attack and defence are the scrum half, out half and full back. Everyone needs to be able to pass and tackle and run and hit rucks.

It's ridiculous to be getting too caught up on if he picks a certain player at 12 or 13. I think he'd going to go with Henshaw for sure and I'd like to see D'Arcy there too but not becuase I think Payne "can't play at 12" just because I think D'Arcy is a better player than Payne and we need a bit of experience in that backline in a game like this.

I'm going to make the possibly wild assumption that most people that are getting all wound up about 12's and 13's never played much rugby themselves.

Listening to former international Shane Horgan describe 12 and 13 as "vastly different positions" reminded me of this beauty.

Tox56

former legend wrote: »

Listening to former international Shane Horgan describe 12 and 13 as "vastly different positions" reminded me of this beauty.

In his press conference today Schmidt actually said he saw the two centre positions are pretty interchangeable

For me it's about as good a XV as we could field, you can argue about one or two selections but there's nothing that's going to make the team a whole lot stronger. I think it's a decent side. Not sure if we've enough to win though.

The bench, hope McCarthy has a good 20 mins in him and I don't think Jones is up to this level I have to say.