Dog ate poop, puked it up and ate it again?????

ShaShaBear

I have literally never had to deal with this before. No idea how he did it or where he got it. We pick up after him in the garden and he is well fed (we have him on Burns puppy (chicken and rice) and I would have imagined it nutritious enough? I let him out at 6.30 this morning, he was only out for about 2 minutes, and then I took him back upstairs. He started gagging, and then puked up an entirely undigested, perfectly-formed poop.
And to make matters worse, as I jumped out of bed to clean it up, he wolfed it back down like he was afraid I would take it off him? (We're working on this with food possessiveness).

Any ideas why he might have eaten it? He's had accidents in the house and not eaten his own poop, and we only cleaned the garden yesterday so there is none of our foster dog's poop left lying about... too big for a cat!

looking_around

I've seen dogs eat poop before. and it's quite common for them to eat what they've thrown up.

don't ask me why, I'm sure someone else with explain that, I just wanted to reassure you it's probably ok, and just try and watch that he doesn't find other poop to eat.

minipink

Are you sure it's his poop (I'm not sure how you would be)As a puppy, Lola used to think that Rio our cat was leaving her luxurious truffles if you get my drift. Maybe he picked up some cat poop in the garden from during the night. For lola, we caught her in the act and told her no and that was that she no longer is tempted by truffle de Rio

ShaShaBear

minipink wrote: »

Are you sure it's his poop (I'm not sure how you would be)As a puppy, Lola used to think that Rio our cat was leaving her luxurious truffles if you get my drift. Maybe he picked up some cat poop in the garden from during the night. For lola, we caught her in the act and told her no and that was that she no longer is tempted by truffle de Rio

Oh I'm assuming it's his poop, what I mean is that we don't leave it outside (pick up as he goes) and we know it isn't a cat's because of the size and we know it isn't the foster dog's as we cleaned up the yard after she left. He was inside all night so I can only assume he pooped, ate it, and then got sick. What I'm wondering about is why, since we dont and have never punished him for accidents in the house. He's receiving what I assume to be adequate nutrition so I don't think it's that. The real weird thing is how he wolfed it down to stop me from taking it off him!!

thegreatiam

Ive heard, but have never investigated the facts, that dog (and other animals) eat their own poop because their digestive system isn't that effective. So they are often inclined to run it through the process twice. so even though they get good food in they instinctively eat it twice to make sure they get as much as they can.

Just something someone told me as a kid when our dog went to town on his 2nd lunch of the day, so i dont know how true it is.

odckdo

Hopefully it is a once off with your pup.

I used to feed my dogs Burns and two of them would eat the other dogs poo. Since I changed brand this has stopped.

Off lead along the canal sometimes another dog would tuck into a sloppy poo if I wasn't watching. As I was cursing him I wondered if it was a lower quality food with high cereal content?

Burns has over 60% rice if that was the cause. Though it probably differs between dogs and there are loads of dogs on Burns without any problems.

keno-daytrader

Might be time to worm also, if you havent recently.

secman

Our daughter has a cross between a schitzu and a beigon, (excuse my spellings here) and he eats his poo too, apparently those breeds are prone to doing so. The food passes through them that quickly it still smells of food..... apparently !

And excuse the pun on schitzu !

DBB

Coprophagia, aka poop eating, can have a number of causes, someimes interlinked. To the dog, it's normal enough behaviour. But that's not much consolation to us!
Some of the factors that cause it:
Copying mother when she was cleaning up after the pups.
An inadequate diet... Sorry SSB, I know there are huge Burns fans here, but I don't rate it at all. There was a time it was one of the best, but it has been far, far eclipsed by better, more nutritious foods. High carbs are implicated in coprophagia, and Burns is stuffed with carbs.
A malabsorption problem... Your vet will help you with this.
Hunger... Unlikely in his case, but maybe as he ate it early in the morning he hadn't been fed yet? So maybe it's a factor?
Boredom... Again, maybe he was awake for a while and looking for something to do?
Previous punishment.. maybe wherever he came from had people who were rough on the pups when they pooped.

Dogs who resource guard their food will often guard their vomit, because it's the next best thing to a food item.
There are a few ways of dealing with it, some more effective than others.
Some people add pineapple or courgette to the diet... This works occasionally, but I would not be relying on it. Others have had success by spiking the fresh poop with Tabasco, but dogs get wise to this very quickly, often smelling which poops smell Tabasco-y and those which don't!
Teach a leave it cue, and supervise him relentlessly when he has any opportunity to poop. When he poops, ask him to leave it, then call him back to you really excitedly, for a lovely treat.
But my own first action would he a diet change. Get rid of cereals, and try to get more fresh meat into him too.
This, in combination with the distraction training above, tend to work well, though some owners have to use a muzzle for a while too.

ShaShaBear

Thanks DBB, seeing someone else had the same problem with Burns, so glad I bought the wee small bag to try out! I'll switch to something else! I'm not exactly sure it was boredom as he had been sound asleep in the bed when I woke. I'd be inclined to think diet as this is the first time he's done it, and he has had accidents and has never done it!

DBB

Oh! One more thing to be aware of. If he thinks he's going to get a game of chasing out of you when he does it, this may sustain the behaviour. That's one reason why using the leave it, followed by return to you, is a better option

ShaShaBear

DBB wrote: »

Oh! One more thing to be aware of. If he thinks he's going to get a game of chasing out of you when he does it, this may sustain the behaviour. That's one reason why using the leave it, followed by return to you, is a better option

We're actually just pricing the Taste of the Wild puppy food! €60 would be a *bit* on the steep side, he should be getting about 1.5 cups a day on that - any idea how much that is in grams (for anyone that has used it?). Just trying to compare and work out how long we would get out of the bag!

DBB

ShaShaBear wrote: »

We're actually just pricing the Taste of the Wild puppy food! €60 would be a *bit* on the steep side, he should be getting about 1.5 cups a day on that - any idea how much that is in grams (for anyone that has used it?). Just trying to compare and work out how long we would get out of the bag!

I buy it on the two bag deal on zooplus.de, it costs just about €50 that way.
I feed it to one of my GSDs, she's 27kg and gets 3 teacups per day... I'll weigh that for you later so you know what that equates to

ShaShaBear

DBB wrote: »

I buy it on the two bag deal on zooplus.de, it costs just about €50 that way.
I feed it to one of my GSDs, she's 27kg and gets 3 teacups per day... I'll weigh that for you later so you know what that equates to

Thanks, just trying to get an idea of value and regularity of purchase if you get me. I loved it (it actually smelled delicious) and I remember Shadow literally adored it. Is there anything a tad lower in price that might be around the same in quality? (We couldn't afford to order two bags in one go )

DBB

Ok, my small GSD is putting on weight being fed 300-350g per day. So a 13.6kg bag lasts 40-45 days for my very active 27kg dog.
The two bag deal offers a good chunk of a discount, one single bag will set you back €57ish. Not sure how that compares with Burns. But I suspect you'd have to feed more Burns to sustain weight.

ShaShaBear

DBB wrote: »

Ok, my small GSD is putting on weight being fed 300-350g per day. So a 13.6kg bag lasts 40-45 days for my very active 27kg dog.
The two bag deal offers a good chunk of a discount, one single bag will set you back €57ish. Not sure how that compares with Burns. But I suspect you'd have to feed more Burns to sustain weight.

Just looking at JWB as well, bit lower in price and I've heard it's quite good? I was maintaining Shadow's weight on 230g a day of TotW so the bag lasted us about 60 days. Obviously I don't know this lad's grown weight, he's already as big as Shadow was fully grown and he's only 14 weeks

DBB

Yes, my little fusspot spaniel x is on cereal-free JWB, she really likes it, and my Sheps love it as treats!
Though kilo for kilo it comes in at about the same price as TOTW, as the bags contain only 10kg, compared to TOTW's 13.6kg

tk123

DBB wrote: »

Dogs who resource guard their food will often guard their vomit, because it's the next best thing to a food item.

Yep Bailey's guards his puke >_< It can be challenging...not to mention dangerous when we're trying to get him away from whatever's making him sick before he eats it again and get's sick again...and again. I can usually trade him for something raw/tasty like a neck but we have to be really careful - especially since Lucy came along!

ShaShaBear

Well we watched him like a hawk on his potty outings and can safely say he isn't eating it outside. But he puked it up again this morning! Which only leaves that he is doing it in our bedroom at night. Which baffles me, as he gets his last feed at 6, gets a 20 minute walk about half an hour after it (and can poop two or three times on that walk) and obviously still gets out 5 or 6 times before we go to bed. We don't give him any snacks or scraps so I'm wondering how on earth he still has the ability to poop in the room (it had to have been after 4am and before 6.30am when he woke me up to be let outside).

Now I have to wonder if I can even honestly say that he is accident-free in the house and if he constantly eats it!

maggiepip

That seems a bit odd, are you certain its poo hes eating at all? I would have thought if he was eating it he would be eating some out in the garden as well.

ShaShaBear

maggiepip wrote: »

That seems a bit odd, are you certain its poo hes eating at all? I would have thought if he was eating it he would be eating some out in the garden as well.

It's without question poo, the smell gives it away, but without being too graphic it comes out of his mouth perfectly formed, as it would out of his bottom. There's no mistaking it!

I'm wondering if it really is the food at all, and it's the free range and boredom at night giving him nothing to do but poop and eat it? We're picking up a crate from Argos either Monday or Tuesday, so that will help narrow it down I hope!

maggiepip

If hes eating it though how can it be coming back up fully formed? Would it not be vomited back up mushy, unless hes swallowing it whole, which is a bit unlikely? (sorry!) Im just wondering there couldn't be some other problem could there?

ShaShaBear

maggiepip wrote: »

If hes eating it though how can it be coming back up fully formed? Would it not be vomited back up mushy, unless hes swallowing it whole, which is a bit unlikely? (sorry!) Im just wondering there couldn't be some other problem could there?

Well there was a teeny bit of mush this morning, but yesterday morning it was fully formed. I cant possibly think what else would come up looking like that. And it smells EXACTLY like his actual poop, which is even more curious. He's not in the slightest bit out of form, still fully alert and with a great appetite. The only reason I could think for it coming up solid is if he ate it very shortly before he puked it up, and it didn't get a change to digest at all?

maggiepip

Yeah possibly, Im sure if he seems bright and is eating and toileting normally hes grand, and thats just what hes doing. I have read that a dog who vomits poo could have an internal blockage, but I would imagine if that was the case the dog would also be very ill and have other symptoms alongside, so Im sure that rules that out!! My collie was a bigtime poo eater when we adopted her and , in agreement with what dbb said, it stopped when I put her on a high quality grain free diet. I had actually changed her diet due to her sensitive tummy but the ceasing of poo snacking was an added bonus!

Nody

ShaShaBear wrote: »

Thanks, just trying to get an idea of value and regularity of purchase if you get me. I loved it (it actually smelled delicious) and I remember Shadow literally adored it. Is there anything a tad lower in price that might be around the same in quality? (We couldn't afford to order two bags in one go )

Markus Muhle Black Angus junior comes close; has some grain but relatively limited and it's a bit over 1 EUR / kg less. Nutrivet Instinct Growth is in between the two in price and is completly grain free.

DBB

It may be coming back up fully formed if he's gulping it down in one go.
He poops 2 or 3 times on walks? Really?! And presumably he poops once or twice more during the day? That's a LOT of pooping!
I think you need to start videoing him to try to get to grips with what's going on here. I'd worry that he'll poop in his crate and eat it in there anyway. I'd also be tempted to stick a half buster collar on him, so that there's a "shelf" under his chin but it's not too intrusive, to stop him getting access to his poops. That might just tell the tale!
Obviously there is a chance he's a closet poop eater, and if he is that'll have to be addressed.

tk123

Have you a camera that you could record him with? Even a laptop/ipad etc would do it..although you may need to need a light on? You could either have him on continuous record or install an app that records when it detects movement. I observed Lucy one night with a webcam just taking photos to find out if she was sliding down on top of Bailey during the night and making him get up... The photos I ended up with were hilarious lol

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=90451933&postcount=8663

ShaShaBear

DBB wrote: »

It may be coming back up fully formed if he's gulping it down in one go.
He poops 2 or 3 times on walks? Really?! And presumably he poops once or twice more during the day? That's a LOT of pooping!
I think you need to start videoing him to try to get to grips with what's going on here. I'd worry that he'll poop in his crate and eat it in there anyway. I'd also be tempted to stick a half buster collar on him, so that there's a "shelf" under his chin but it's not too intrusive, to stop him getting access to his poops. That might just tell the tale!
Obviously there is a chance he's a closet poop eater, and if he is that'll have to be addressed.

Yep, he usually goes in the morning after his first feed (usually about half an hour after as I get him to play for a bit to get him moving). Sometimes he doesn't go after the second feed and waits till after the third. I was hoping that would change with the food, but so far it hasn't. I couldn't record him, we don't have any of that fancy-smanshy stuff But in any case, couldn't leave a light on as the baby sleeps in the room with us, and he is in his bed on the floor beside us
I'm a very light sleeper, even more so since Abi was born, so I'm guessing (and I can only guess) that he isn't making much of a rucus when he does it. If I brought his last feed back a bit, do you think that might help ensure he is empty?

Mr_Red

Dogs tend to eat cat poop

ShaShaBear

Mr_Red wrote: »

Dogs tend to eat cat poop

Trust me, it 'aint cat poop :pac:

Mr_Red

Lion , Tiger?

lol

ShaShaBear

Mr_Red wrote: »

Lion , Tiger?

lol

Size wise more likely :pac:
But the real reason I know is because he isn't eating poop outside, and we don't own a cat so he's not getting it inside either!

tk123

ShaShaBear wrote: »

But in any case, couldn't leave a light on as the baby sleeps in the room with us, and he is in his bed on the floor beside us

The cameras I have have 'night vision' /infra red and were cheap enough on amazon so might be an option. You could re purpose as a (human) baby monitor when you're finished monitoring the fur baby Or use them to monitor him remotely when you're out etc

splitcro

ShaShaBear wrote: »

I have literally never had to deal with this before. No idea how he did it or where he got it. We pick up after him in the garden and he is well fed (we have him on Burns puppy (chicken and rice) and I would have imagined it nutritious enough? I let him out at 6.30 this morning, he was only out for about 2 minutes, and then I took him back upstairs. He started gagging, and then puked up an entirely undigested, perfectly-formed poop.
And to make matters worse, as I jumped out of bed to clean it up, he wolfed it back down like he was afraid I would take it off him? (We're working on this with food possessiveness).

Any ideas why he might have eaten it? He's had accidents in the house and not eaten his own poop, and we only cleaned the garden yesterday so there is none of our foster dog's poop left lying about... too big for a cat!

I have had this problem with the one of my dogs years ago. Vet told me that they are doing it as a puppies, but not later...so, this was thrue. I took him when he was 4 months old, after one month he didnt do that anymore....

ferretone

ShaShaBear wrote: »

Just looking at JWB as well, bit lower in price and I've heard it's quite good? I was maintaining Shadow's weight on 230g a day of TotW so the bag lasted us about 60 days. Obviously I don't know this lad's grown weight, he's already as big as Shadow was fully grown and he's only 14 weeks

Wow! What does Opie weigh now? Do you think he is a cross with something bigger than a BC, or was Shadow smaller than normal BC size?

Nyssa has had a penchant for eating poop all along: very quickly we screwed the downstairs kitty box onto a 1.2m ledge by the front door, and put in a stair gate, to keep her from the upstairs one among other things. Pretty sure this is a legacy from the puppy wing in the rescue she came from, as they would all go home and leave the pups in the centre at a certain time, and of course they would be free to do what they would with what happened in the pens during that time, probably copying mum on that one too.

There is no way her diet since we've had her has given her any urge to do this as described on this thread: I switched her to raw right from the start, so this is definitely pure habit! It is getting much less and less often as time goes on too, without any issue having been made of it.

Perhaps where Opie was raised was a similar situation as described above? Just cos it does very much sound as though it could be a habit for him too. I would very much recommend following the advice, and feeding higher-quality, grain-free food. You honestly do not end up more out-of-pocket through the month, as the amount you need to feed is so much less.

And your pup is so much younger than ours (2 months younger, I believe?), if the habit is decreasing in ours now, remembering that she was still in the aforementioned rescue situation at the age Opie is now, it should surely be very much easier with him than it's been with Nyssa. I'd just quietly change the food, some have advised using the leave-it command: no reason why not if it really bothers you a lot! But I'm finding not making an issue of it at all, it is gradually receding away anyway. That's up to you

By the way, regarding the question at the start of the post, Nyssa was about a week older than what you say Opie is now when we got her, just 15 weeks, and was about 10kg. We've almost had her 8 weeks now, and she was weighed at 17.5kg yesterday. I'm expecting her to grow close to 30kg at this stage. I'm just really curious what weight Opie's at now, especially as you say he's so close to Shadow's final size already. Big collies are so spectacular

ShaShaBear

Well, after finally getting a hold of Opie's vaccination card, we've found out that he is actually 5 months old, and not 3 as we were told (I bloody knew he was too big to be 13 weeks!!). On the 18th of September (at 13 weeks old), the vet has him down as 7.2kilos!!!!!!!!!!
No idea what weight he is now, but he's definitely not fat, and that seems like a hefty weight for what we were told was full border collie :rolleyes:

So to Ferretone, Shadow was a cross between either a Rough collie and a border collie, or possibly a Bernese Mountain dog and border collie. The lad owned all three so he wasn't sure himself. Mum was the border at any rate! He was much bigger than the average border, very chunky! Vet did comment that while riddled with cancer, he still weighed way over the normal range for a border collie, even though he was clearly very lean! Opie is very obviously BC mix, but there doesn't seem to be an obvious hint of what the other breed might be. He's a subtle tri-colour, only has brown around his ears, and lining his back legs. His coat doesn't seem as long or as thick/fluffy as I've noticed before with collies, so I'm wondering if it might be a short-haired big dog?

Also, finally got to the bottom of the poop. After he did it this morning (and I caught him), I rang the lady who had been fostering him. After a lot of subtle (and completely false) suggestions that he might have to go back to rescue (didn't like these tactics but I knew she was lying to me about something), she admitted that Opie pooped in her flat every night and they would rub his nose in it and slap him in the mornings if they found it. It stopped after a while so she assumed he wasn't doing it any more and didn't realise he could or would eat it to protect himself! :mad: (Explains the issue with hands and finger wagging).
She also casually dropped in that he had a full bowl of food beside his bed every night because he's a very hungry puppy and the amount he's supposed to get is never enough for him and her partner told her that if a dog cleans his bowl, he needs more food! :pac:

Deduction, Opie is in the habit of pooping and eating it at night, partially due to being afraid of being punished, and possibly partially because he is used to getting a full bowl of food to munch on through the night and is likely hungry. In-laws are picking up a crate for us tomorrow, so hopefully it will deter him from pooping once we get him used to having it closed.

So, on the topic of crates and night time, is it alright to leave something like a rawhide/bone type chew in his crate at night to maybe help with the learned urge to nibble, without giving him something substantial to digest? Or would it be counter-productive in teaching him about bedtime?

He's a very smart dog, been here almost three weeks and we have sit, paw, lie down, roll over, up (beg), get down, hop up, leave it, wait, fetch, go to your bed and do you want to go out (he runs to the back door when we say this, handy for catching him when he looks like he's about to drop the bass ). We're starting to work on stay, he's finding it a bit harder but can hold it for a few seconds before he gets distracted

Qualitymark

Put a few pineapple chunks in the dog's food for a few days, usually sorts it out. Apparently it makes the poo taste nasty, but for some reason it seems to turn the dog off poo generally.

ShaShaBear

Just for sizing, here is a pic of him at almost 9 weeks old (get a load of those shovel paws!)


And here is him now, at almost 5 months (hoping that either of these photos properly get across his size )

DBB

Re the night time nibbles, I would try without first and see how you get on, but I would also be concerned that crating him is not going to stop him eating his poop.
One thing I would most certainly do is phone the most senior person you can find in the rescue you got him from, and tell them what that fosterer did. If she does that to your pup, leaving you with a big and completely avoidable problem, she's going to do it to more puppies. I would die if I thought anyone who fosters for me did that, and I have taken dogs off fosterers for less. The bloody cheek of her.

ShaShaBear

DBB wrote: »

Re the night time nibbles, I would try without first and see how you get on, but I would also be concerned that crating him is not going to stop him eating his poop.
One thing I would most certainly do is phone the most senior person you can find in the rescue you got him from, and tell them what that fosterer did. If she does that to your pup, leaving you with a big and completely avoidable problem, she's going to do it to more puppies. I would die if I thought anyone who fosters for me did that, and I have taken dogs off fosterers for less. The bloody cheek of her.

Yeah I know it doesn't address the poop problem, but I am hoping that perhaps the racket he makes in trying to poop might wake me and give me a chance to take him outside and praise him so that he might learn to wake me rather than poop I'll be setting alarms and letting him out in the middle of the night (we go to bed very late here) so hopefully not giving him the chance to eat it in conjunction with keeping him contained and not giving him the opportunity to prance to the complete opposite side of the room to do it will help :pac:

As for reporting the lady, that is being dealt with as we speak. It's not the rescue I foster for but I have informed them that her and her partner were abusing him and while I did say it seemed to be in ignorance, the lady I spoke to assured me that she was clear on how to deal with puppy training and that slapping and punishing was very much a no. I'm utterly furious, he is so lucky I was the first to see his ad and not an inexperienced family thinking a "fully-housetrained" puppy would be a great idea. I'm well used to most of his little issues and know how to address them, so they don't mar his personality. I did also give the lady in rescue a talking-to as there was clearly no home-check done (she thought this girl lived in the countryside with an enclosed garden, when she actually lives in a block of apartments in town and works full-time).

maggiepip

ShaShaBear wrote: »

Well, after finally getting a hold of Opie's vaccination card, we've found out that he is actually 5 months old, and not 3 as we were told (I bloody knew he was too big to be 13 weeks!!). On the 18th of September (at 13 weeks old), the vet has him down as 7.2kilos!!!!!!!!!!
No idea what weight he is now, but he's definitely not fat, and that seems like a hefty weight for what we were told was full border collie :rolleyes:

So to Ferretone, Shadow was a cross between either a Rough collie and a border collie, or possibly a Bernese Mountain dog and border collie. The lad owned all three so he wasn't sure himself. Mum was the border at any rate! He was much bigger than the average border, very chunky! Vet did comment that while riddled with cancer, he still weighed way over the normal range for a border collie, even though he was clearly very lean! Opie is very obviously BC mix, but there doesn't seem to be an obvious hint of what the other breed might be. He's a subtle tri-colour, only has brown around his ears, and lining his back legs. His coat doesn't seem as long or as thick/fluffy as I've noticed before with collies, so I'm wondering if it might be a short-haired big dog?

Also, finally got to the bottom of the poop. After he did it this morning (and I caught him), I rang the lady who had been fostering him. After a lot of subtle (and completely false) suggestions that he might have to go back to rescue (didn't like these tactics but I knew she was lying to me about something), she admitted that Opie pooped in her flat every night and they would rub his nose in it and slap him in the mornings if they found it. It stopped after a while so she assumed he wasn't doing it any more and didn't realise he could or would eat it to protect himself! :mad: (Explains the issue with hands and finger wagging).
She also casually dropped in that he had a full bowl of food beside his bed every night because he's a very hungry puppy and the amount he's supposed to get is never enough for him and her partner told her that if a dog cleans his bowl, he needs more food! :pac:

Deduction, Opie is in the habit of pooping and eating it at night, partially due to being afraid of being punished, and possibly partially because he is used to getting a full bowl of food to munch on through the night and is likely hungry. In-laws are picking up a crate for us tomorrow, so hopefully it will deter him from pooping once we get him used to having it closed.

So, on the topic of crates and night time, is it alright to leave something like a rawhide/bone type chew in his crate at night to maybe help with the learned urge to nibble, without giving him something substantial to digest? Or would it be counter-productive in teaching him about bedtime?

He's a very smart dog, been here almost three weeks and we have sit, paw, lie down, roll over, up (beg), get down, hop up, leave it, wait, fetch, go to your bed and do you want to go out (he runs to the back door when we say this, handy for catching him when he looks like he's about to drop the bass ). We're starting to work on stay, he's finding it a bit harder but can hold it for a few seconds before he gets distracted

My God that is such a sad thing to read, to think that the poor little mite was eating his own poo and making himself sick out of fear of punishment is heartbreaking. Well done for getting to the bottom of the story. I seriously hope that person is struck off from fostering, because even if it was done in ignorance what type of a character would slap a little puppy and push his face into his own faeces.

ShaShaBear

maggiepip wrote: »

My God that is such a sad thing to read, to think that the poor little mite was eating his own poo and making himself sick out of fear of punishment is heartbreaking. Well done for getting to the bottom of the story. I seriously hope that person is struck off from fostering, because even if it was done in ignorance what type of a character would slap a little puppy and push his face into his own faeces.

I know, with all of the info available today and the fact that the volunteer I spoke to made it clear that she was very firm on how to discipline and train foster puppies, it just doesn't make sense that she would do it! I understand it can be frustrating when puppies have accidents, especially if you are used to an adult dog or thought you finally cracked it, but at worst you might raise your voice in exasperation, certainly not shove the pup's face in it! It only gives them problems making them harder to rehome. Opie is getting better, but is fearfully reactive of fast-moving hands and obviously still eats poo at night if he has an accident. He doesn't do it during the day, so I can only assume it's learned now.

We'll get him out of it. Little tyke has been playing fetch for the past half hour solid, so easy to make a puppy happy!

DBB

I'm still smarting at the damage that fosterer did SSB :mad:
I wonder how many other foster dogs have developed bad habits in her care?
I had one fosterer who I really trusted, she had looked after a number of dogs for me. But then I started to hear tiny little rumblings from other mutual contacts, and it all came to light that this person was not only not looking after my dogs, she was really actively neglecting them. I was HORRIFIED, but it took a while to be discovered, much to my shame

When you bring him out on walks and he poops, what do you do?
I'm thinking that at the moment, he must be scared of pooping in front of humans... at least in an indoor environment. So I'm thinking if, when he poops out on walks in front of you, you make a HHHHUUUuuuuuugggeeee fuss of him, a handful of really, really tasty treats that he never gets in other contexts, teach him to LOVE toileting in front of you, so that he's not as inclined to hide the fact at home. If you can catch him in the act at home, perverse as it may sound, I think I'd make a huge fuss of him there too, though only after calling him over to me and leaving the poop behind him.

ShaShaBear

DBB wrote: »

I'm still smarting at the damage that fosterer did SSB :mad:
I wonder how many other foster dogs have developed bad habits in her care?
I had one fosterer who I really trusted, she had looked after a number of dogs for me. But then I started to hear tiny little rumblings from other mutual contacts, and it all came to light that this person was not only not looking after my dogs, she was really actively neglecting them. I was HORRIFIED, but it took a while to be discovered, much to my shame

When you bring him out on walks and he poops, what do you do?
I'm thinking that at the moment, he must be scared of pooping in front of humans... at least in an indoor environment. So I'm thinking if, when he poops out on walks in front of you, you make a HHHHUUUuuuuuugggeeee fuss of him, a handful of really, really tasty treats that he never gets in other contexts, teach him to LOVE toileting in front of you, so that he's not as inclined to hide the fact at home. If you can catch him in the act at home, perverse as it may sound, I think I'd make a huge fuss of him there too, though only after calling him over to me and leaving the poop behind him.

I actually do tell him he's a good boy and he gets treats, as I take a bag out with me on walks to work on his lead-training and dealing with other people and dogs He has absolutely no issue going in front of anyone that I've noticed, and doesn't hesitate on a walk (Shadow would go walking for a full hour and drop trough the second he got through the house) or out in the garden when watched.

tk123

All I've thought about all day is that poor pup and that sh!tty fosterer! :mad: Thank god he ended up with somebody who wants to give him a chance.

ShaShaBear

tk123 wrote: »

All I've thought about all day is that poor pup and that sh!tty fosterer! :mad: Thank god he ended up with somebody who wants to give him a chance.

It's upset me too, like I said her and her partner are friends of the family and her partner's family have a few rescue dogs so I'm not really sure where this mentality has come from! I've been assured she won't foster again for the rescue, and I contacted the rescue I foster for (also kind of local) and let them know that she is not to be given a foster dog either. I could only imagine how many problems he could have ended up with being passed from pillar to post because no-one could handle the issues she left him with!

biko

I'm not sure it's perfectly normal but it's not unheard of either.

This is why I never let dogs lick my face.

muddypaws

ShaShaBear wrote: »

It's upset me too, like I said her and her partner are friends of the family and her partner's family have a few rescue dogs so I'm not really sure where this mentality has come from! I've been assured she won't foster again for the rescue, and I contacted the rescue I foster for (also kind of local) and let them know that she is not to be given a foster dog either. I could only imagine how many problems he could have ended up with being passed from pillar to post because no-one could handle the issues she left him with!

When you first posted about the problem, I immediately thought he must have been punished for going to the toilet in the wrong place, and that is why he is eating it, but knowing his story, I thought that couldn't possibly be it. Such a shame he's had to deal with this, but thank goodness he's now safe, and being trained ethically and with kindness. Onwards and upwards

ferretone

Aw man, I am horrified thinking of what poor, poor Opie went through! Thank goodness you did get to the bottom of it, and can now understand where the poor wee man is coming from a bit more! I am still horror-struck, thinking of it! The last time I heard of anything the like was when we were small kids, and our scary granny took a dog that hadn't been really an indoor dog before. And we took the dog away from her as soon as we realised what she was doing! That being about 35 years ago!

I'm thinking though, the rescue themselves should have at least been able to remember what age of pup they were homing to you! They honestly should be keeping better track of that stuff, as no denying, it is relevant to the new owners. It sounds as if possibly they are biting off more than they can chew in terms of rescue numbers, and ought to try and take a little more care of their housekeeping generally. Not that any of us genuine dog-lovers hold any of that against the animal at the end of the day, but just every bit of accurate info on our new buddies really does help!

And so it turns out your pup and mine are more-or-less of an age after all! I'm thinking they're fairly much of a height too, although Opie is leggier-looking: Nyssa is much longer in the back, and much stockier as well. I'd say hairier too, not necessarily much longer-haired, though a bit, but much denser-looking and extremely luxurious and toastie. She also has a shorter nose and wider head. I really have to get the finger out and get some pics tomorrow, don't I? :P Opie sure is a cutie, and so is Nyssa as well

ferretone

ShaShaBear wrote: »

So, on the topic of crates and night time, is it alright to leave something like a rawhide/bone type chew in his crate at night to maybe help with the learned urge to nibble, without giving him something substantial to digest? Or would it be counter-productive in teaching him about bedtime?

He's a very smart dog, been here almost three weeks and we have sit, paw, lie down, roll over, up (beg), get down, hop up, leave it, wait, fetch, go to your bed and do you want to go out (he runs to the back door when we say this, handy for catching him when he looks like he's about to drop the bass ). We're starting to work on stay, he's finding it a bit harder but can hold it for a few seconds before he gets distracted

Replying to this, I never give rawhide, as such. So many dodgy things about it, from the chemicals used to treat the stuff before it's removed from the leather, to the way some types swell up inside the stomach. I prefer to give either meaty bones, or dried pieces of actual food, such as tripe, ears, pizzles etc, and deduct what they eat of that from their daily diet, which tends not to be a huge amount with their pup teeth anyway!

As for your training, that is an impressive list he is clocking up there, sure enough! As to the retaining concentration, I find it is really helpful to introduce the "look" command quite early on (as in get them to look into your eyes). From which point I incorporate it into everything I ask, so they don't get rewarded until they do that. It's quite amazing how quickly their concentration increases from that, as they can understand by looking into your eyes when you are ready to release them.

You are doing great things with this dog, who has clearly had such a rough time before he came to you. Best of luck with all of it, and hoping that poop issue resolves really quickly, now that you understand it

ShaShaBear

ferretone wrote: »

Replying to this, I never give rawhide, as such. So many dodgy things about it, from the chemicals used to treat the stuff before it's removed from the leather, to the way some types swell up inside the stomach. I prefer to give either meaty bones, or dried pieces of actual food, such as tripe, ears, pizzles etc, and deduct what they eat of that from their daily diet, which tends not to be a huge amount with their pup teeth anyway!

As for your training, that is an impressive list he is clocking up there, sure enough! As to the retaining concentration, I find it is really helpful to introduce the "look" command quite early on (as in get them to look into your eyes). From which point I incorporate it into everything I ask, so they don't get rewarded until they do that. It's quite amazing how quickly their concentration increases from that, as they can understand by looking into your eyes when you are ready to release them.

You are doing great things with this dog, who has clearly had such a rough time before he came to you. Best of luck with all of it, and hoping that poop issue resolves really quickly, now that you understand it

With the rescue, the age didn't exactly come up, as the girl had told me 3 months, and the rescue just reminded me he needed neutering at 6 months. We were both starting to think he might be a bit of a lab or something else larger because of the legs, but his age makes more sense for his size. His brown is really starting to come through and his colour is almost identical to Shadow's. In fact, given the townland he came from, it's altogether possible he was born on the same farm that we took Shadow from. Unlikely to be a brother as that was 11 years ago, but all the same!

We bought a small bag of JWB cereal-free to try him on. Was going to go for TotW but our local pet shop stocks JWB which means we can get it off them in a pinch if we can't wait for delivery. Also means we can save up and order the 2 bags if he likes it (considering I literally watched him pick out the JWB kibble and left the Burns stuff till last...)

I got up at 4am to let Opie outside (we go to bed at around 12/1) and he just peed, no poop. We had a bit of retching at about 6am and I let him out and something very small came up. I got him away from it by crinkling his treat bag, treating him when he looked at me and that was that. No more retching this morning, so hopefully things will improve