How often should i really service gas boiler?

seefin

gas boiler is ten years old .I've religiously had it serviced every year. Only use the central heating for 4 months of the year and for 3 hours max on those days. seeing as it's probably used half as much as a typical boiler, would I get away with servicing every 18-24 months ? I have a carbon monoxide alarm.

Egass13

seefin wrote: »

gas boiler is ten years old .I've religiously had it serviced every year. Only use the central heating for 4 months of the year and for 3 hours max on those days. seeing as it's probably used half as much as a typical boiler, would I get away with servicing every 18-24 months ? I have a carbon monoxide alarm.

The Cer , rgii , and manufacturers instructions state every year . The only people who will give you the answer you would like to hear are those who don't work in the industry . Carbon monoxide is not the only reason to have your boiler serviced . And lack of use dsnt make a difference .

AndyBoBandy

Every year (I don't work in the industry)

keeps it safe, keeps it efficient.

ted1

Andybobandy wrote: »

Every year (I don't work in the industry)

keeps it safe, keeps it efficient.

Seai claim that a service on a gas boiler only increases efficiencies by 2%

See graph here.
http://www.seai.ie/Power_of_One/Heat_Your_Home_For_Less/Servicing_Your_Boiler/

AndyBoBandy

ted1 wrote: »

Seai claim that a service on a gas boiler only increases efficiencies by 2%

2% is better than 0%

over the course of a year, that 2% could be quite a bit.

ted1

Andybobandy wrote: »

2% is better than 0%

over the course of a year, that 2% could be quite a bit.

I pay 800 a year on gas. (3 bed semi d) that's less than 16 euro as there's a standing charge in that figure that isn't affected.

Wearb

ted1 wrote: »

Seai claim that a service on a gas boiler only increases efficiencies by 2%

See graph here.
http://www.seai.ie/Power_of_One/Heat_Your_Home_For_Less/Servicing_Your_Boiler/

Notice that you left out this important bit from the same site:

Regular servicing of your boiler is important as it ensures that the boiler is working to the specifications designed by the boiler manufacturer. This will help prolong the life of the boiler as well as reduce the risk of faults and expensive repairs down the line.

Not to mention the whole safety aspect of a good service.

ted1

Wearb wrote: »

Notice that you left out this important bit from the same site:

Regular servicing of your boiler is important as it ensures that the boiler is working to the specifications designed by the boiler manufacturer. This will help prolong the life of the boiler as well as reduce the risk of faults and expensive repairs down the line. - See more at: http://www.seai.ie/Power_of_One/Heat_Your_Home_For_Less/Servicing_Your_Boiler/#sthash.nEHXOxAP.dpuf
"Regular servicing of your boiler is important as it ensures that the boiler is working to the specifications designed by the boiler manufacturer. This will help prolong the life of the boiler as well as reduce the risk of faults and expensive repairs down the line."
Regular servicing of your boiler is important as it ensures that the boiler is working to the specifications designed by the boiler manufacturer. This will help prolong the life of the boiler as well as reduce the risk of faults and expensive repairs down the line. - See more at: http://www.seai.ie/Power_of_One/Heat_Your_Home_For_Less/Servicing_Your_Boiler/#sthash.nEHXOxAP.dpuf
Regular servicing of your boiler is important as it ensures that the boiler is working to the specifications designed by the boiler manufacturer. This will help prolong the life of the boiler as well as reduce the risk of faults and expensive repairs down the line. - See more at: http://www.seai.ie/Power_of_One/Heat_Your_Home_For_Less/Servicing_Your_Boiler/#sthash.nEHXOxAP.dpuf
Regular servicing of your boiler is important as it ensures that the boiler is working to the specifications designed by the boiler manufacturer. This will help prolong the life of the boiler as well as reduce the risk of faults and expensive repairs down the line. - See more at: http://www.seai.ie/Power_of_One/Heat_Your_Home_For_Less/Servicing_Your_Boiler/#sthash.nEHXOxAP.dpufRegular servicing of your boiler is important as it ensures that the boiler is working to the specifications designed by the boiler manufacturer. This will help prolong the life of the boiler as well as reduce the risk of faults and expensive repairs down the line. - See more at: http://www.seai.ie/Power_of_One/Heat_Your_Home_For_Less/Servicing_Your_Boiler/#sthash.nEHXOxAP.dpuf

I was responding to the poster that put it down to efficiency.

How much longer will it last getting it done every year V every Two years ? Because in 10 years I would save about 500 euros.

mmg0305

FWIW, more than once I've been told by whoever was doing my service that they don't service their own boiler anything like as often as every year. That said, I'd worry about leaving it unserviced for too long as Murphy's Law would ensure it would be bound to break down at the worst possible time, like over Xmas or during a snowstorm...

I can't remember how exactly how much I paid for the service last time but it wasn't megabucks, so I reckon worth it for peace of mind

HeidiHeidi

seefin wrote: »

gas boiler is ten years old .I've religiously had it serviced every year. Only use the central heating for 4 months of the year and for 3 hours max on those days. seeing as it's probably used half as much as a typical boiler, would I get away with servicing every 18-24 months ? I have a carbon monoxide alarm.

I would also wonder if the fact that you use it so little might mean it would be wise to get it serviced every year?

Mine is on every day, as it heats the water - sometimes it's only for half an hour but it is on every day. If your boiler is idle for 8 months of the year, can that mean that stuff settles and it needs cleaning out even more than a regularly used one?

(I don't know the answer to that, obviously - but have always wondered, so if anyone DOES know the answer then I'd love to hear it!)

Wearb

ted1 wrote: »

I was responding to the poster that put it down to efficiency.

How much longer will it last getting it done every year V every Two years ? Because in 10 years I would save about 500 euros.

That chart supposes that it is running within proper parameters during all this time. I have seen oil boilers go from peak efficiency to probably less than 50% in a few days. When it happens that fast the burner stops fairly quickly and it has to be repaired. But supposing this happens over a year or longer, then imagine how much it has cost you before you get it serviced or it eventually stops.

chicorytip

I had my Gas boiler serviced recently for the first occasion since it was installed four years ago and it was found to working at 99% efficiency despite constant use.The claimed requirement for annual servicing is really only an attempt to extract more money from the consumer.

ted1

chicorytip wrote: »

I had my Gas boiler serviced recently for the first occasion since it was installed four years ago and it was found to working at 99% efficiency despite constant use.The claimed requirement for annual servicing is really only an attempt to extract more money from the consumer.

That's why I looked at what an independant body said, and quickly pulled up the industry guy on his false claim

AndyBoBandy

ted1 wrote: »

I was responding to the poster that put it down to efficiency.

I was merely pointing out that improved efficiency was one of the benefits of a regular service.

ted1

Andybobandy wrote: »

I was merely point out that improved efficiency was one of the benefits of a regular service.

You listed 2 reasons. One of them involved spending 100 euro to save less than 16 euro, thus a cost of 84+ euro

AndyBoBandy

ted1 wrote: »

You listed 2 reasons. One of them involved spending 100 euro to save less than 16 euro, thus a cost of 84+ euro

When it comes to something which, if not taken care of properly, has the potential to kill all in my home, I'd consider €100 per year to ensure it is running efficiently, reliably & safely a bargain.

but hey, what has safety got to do with anything, especially when you have to spend €100 for it.

Wearb

I don't want to seem to be scaremongering because the merits of a service - as I already pointed out- stand on their own.

In case of an oil or gas leak or fire etc in the vicinity of the boiler, one of the first questions you will be asked is when was it last serviced. The same would go for a car warranty. The the investigator would look up manufacturer recommendations. Then the lawyers really start to go at it, while you wait on the sidelines hoping for a favourable outcome.

That is almost worst case, and as I said above, an annual service stands on its own merits. If it wasn't needed there would be manufacturers selling their products based on "our boiler only needs to be serviced every 5 years".

hfallada

Andybobandy wrote: »

When it comes to something which, if not taken care of properly, has the potential to kill all in my home, I'd consider €100 per year to ensure it is running efficiently, reliably & safely a bargain.

but hey, what has safety got to do with anything, especially when you have to spend €100 for it.

But its fear that people service their boiler out of. My plumber doesnt ever service his own boiler. He claims boiler services are a scam, that boilers dont need to be serviced that regularly at all. Think about it. A boiler is designed to last 20 years and it burns the cleanest fuel possible. Natural gas doesnt leave a tar or a residue. So why should it need to be cleaned? It doesnt. If you are afraid of carbon monoxide then install an alarm.

ted1

Andybobandy wrote: »

When it comes to something which, if not taken care of properly, has the potential to kill all in my home, I'd consider €100 per year to ensure it is running efficiently, reliably & safely a bargain.

but hey, what has safety got to do with anything, especially when you have to spend €100 for it.

Why ever 12 months, would 6 months not be safer? Please explain where 12 months is obtained

Wearb

hfallada wrote: »

But its fear that people service their boiler out of. My plumber doesnt ever service his own boiler. He claims boiler services are a scam, that boilers dont need to be serviced that regularly at all. Think about it. A boiler is designed to last 20 years and it burns the cleanest fuel possible. Natural gas doesnt leave a tar or a residue. So why should it need to be cleaned? It doesnt. If you are afraid of carbon monoxide then install an alarm.

You are ignoring all the other aspects of a service (btw gas can also cause soot and other deposits) and I would let this go except for the fact that some unsuspecting thread reader might take your advice.

My advice is to service to manufacturer recommendations. I have mentioned some of the benefits already.

As for your plumber: I think he is taking a lot on himself with those ideas. Perhaps you will be able to get him to go one step further and write next service due in 5 years time on his service record sheet. Will be worth having when things go wrong.

AndyBoBandy

ted1 wrote: »

Why ever 12 months, would 6 months not be safer? Please explain where 12 months is obtained

maybe something to do with the annual cycle of use, a summer, a winter..

I don't want to get into a long drawn argument with you, I was simply expressing an opinion.

Dtp1979

hfallada wrote: »

But its fear that people service their boiler out of. My plumber doesnt ever service his own boiler. He claims boiler services are a scam, that boilers dont need to be serviced that regularly at all. Think about it. A boiler is designed to last 20 years and it burns the cleanest fuel possible. Natural gas doesnt leave a tar or a residue. So why should it need to be cleaned? It doesnt. If you are afraid of carbon monoxide then install an alarm.

What a ridiculous statement. Boilers wear, fittings can leak. I've come across a boiler only 2 days ago that was serviced annually. This year when I tested the flue gas the CO was nearly 800ppm when it should've been closer to 20. All because the internal flue either rotted or a seal perished. The boiler was running what seemed perfect. Can you imagine what would happen if the customer didn't bother her arse getting it serviced.

hfallada

hfallada wrote: »

But its fear that people service their boiler out of. My plumber doesnt ever service his own boiler. He claims boiler services are a scam, that boilers dont need to be serviced that regularly at all. Think about it. A boiler is designed to last 20 years and it burns the cleanest fuel possible. Natural gas doesnt leave a tar or a residue. So why should it need to be cleaned? It doesnt. If you are afraid of carbon monoxide then install an alarm.

I find these conversations pointless.

Boiler manufactures require boilers to be serviced annually based on their own findings.

Gas boilers do and can kill servicing helps prevent that.

I love that you feel you have a better understanding after talking to your plumber than the manufactures who build the things and are liable for any incident that occurs with their product.

Gas boiler are very clean running But must be monitored to confirm safety, efficiency and to identify any pertintual issues before they become a problem.

Now as a firm believer in natural selection I have no interest in arguing about gas servicing, I will tell you servicing is the right and safe thing to do with a gas appliance within a home based on my own findings as a emergency gas responder but if you don't wish to listen that's on you.

Just a little point for the nay sayers, modern condensing boilers don't have flue proving switches on them like the standard efficiency boilers they replaced, so they can still fire if the flue over time becomes faulty, if the flue disconnects it will produce carbon monoxide (as happened sadly to the two boys in Derry), a simple 2 minute test on a service proves the safety of the flue, you can decide if it's a risk worth taking.

scudo2

Two things about annual servicing.
Listed in most important in my opinion.

(1) A safety check.
(2) Prolonging life and efficiency of appliance.

Applies to gas & oil servicing.

And also applies to most things in life.


Often I've serviced oil boilers and accidently spotted life threatening situations with the stove, which I wasn't employed to go near. Habit and safety makes me look.

cerastes

Im wondering now if boilers might have some built in features in the future to determine servicing on usage? like cars which determine driving style, even some US models I believe might sample the oil.
e.g. service indicator based on actual hrs of use, gas flow and time based combined, maybe? I doubt the manufacturers would put themselves out there in the event something happened, but what about a CO detection built in? at least to create an alarm or if above a harmful level shut it down?

Just reading back a few posts, how does a flue disconnect itself in a fixed installation? it doesnt seem like the thing that would experience vibration and come loose over time? other than someone striking it from the exterior with another object?

cerastes

cerastes wrote: »

Im wondering now if boilers might have some built in features in the future to determine servicing on usage? like cars which determine driving style, even some US models I believe might sample the oil.
e.g. service indicator based on actual hrs of use, gas flow and time based combined, maybe? I doubt the manufacturers would put themselves out there in the event something happened, but what about a CO detection built in? at least to create an alarm or if above a harmful level shut it down?

Just reading back a few posts, how does a flue disconnect itself in a fixed installation? it doesnt seem like the thing that would experience vibration and come loose over time? other than someone striking it from the exterior with another object?

Gas boilers have already been risk assessed and come with instructions to keep the home owners safe, it's those who wish to second guess the instructions beit home owner or installer who find themselves with problems.

A young girl died last year in the UK because the installer forgot to fit the small screws to hold the flue joint and high winds dislodged the flue, I came across a defective flue causing the boiler to produce carbon monoxide, the flue had been used as a shelf and the weight effected the flue.

Defective flues are a bigger problem than they should be, a simple service confirms every year that a gas appliance and flue is safe.

Every incident or near miss I went to involved unserviced gas appliances, I cannot think of any emergency call I ever had after a appliance had been serviced properly.

ted1

Ok so what we have learnt is that boilers are badly designed, and should include protection and detection equipment. This would increase safety and negate the need for an annual service. So any extra costs would easily be recovered.

ted1

ted1 wrote: »

Ok so what we have learnt is that boilers are badly designed, and should include protection and detection equipment. This would increase safety and negate the need for an annual service. So any extra costs would easily be recovered.

I don't think you've learnt anything.


Again as a professional gas service engineer specialising in gas safety I will tell you that all gas appliances should be serviced as per manufactures instructions.

I, like other gas engineers who have seen death or near death incidents find it difficult to understand the risks taken by those who choose to ignore safety advice.

I have absolutely no interest in trying to convince you, if you feel you know better than me that's fine but as I have a duty of care for all those using gas I have to inform you about gas safety, what you do with that information is up to you.

These conversation are more for those who want to pat themselves on the back and convince themselves their right about not servicing.


Also as I know make a living from boilers that haven't been serviced properly the not servicing thing is working out quite well for me, but I'd prefer if people were a bit more safety conscious.

K.Flyer

As usual there will always be people who feel that they know better than the manufacturers of boilers and the people who have been trained to install and maintain them, such is life.
To those people I will just say this one thing.
A gas (or oil) boiler service carried out by a qualified and conscientious operative is working towards your safety.
This year I have been shocked at the amount of gas boiler services / breakdowns that I have gone to, only to find leaks somewhere on the gas supply pipework between the meter and appliances requiring an immediate shut down of the gas supply until the leak was found and repaired.
There is a lot more involved when serving a boiler than a quick vacuum and a wipe of an old rag, but hey, to use an old saying. ."you can lead the horse to water, but you can't make it drink it".

Egass13

hfallada wrote: »

But its fear that people service their boiler out of. My plumber doesnt ever service his own boiler. He claims boiler services are a scam, that boilers dont need to be serviced that regularly at all. Think about it. A boiler is designed to last 20 years and it burns the cleanest fuel possible. Natural gas doesnt leave a tar or a residue. So why should it need to be cleaned? It doesnt. If you are afraid of carbon monoxide then install an alarm.

Your plumber is a plumber . Not a service engineer . Only part of a plumbing apprenticeship that relates to gas is the gis , which is gas safety . And that not only teaches you nothing about gas appliance repair or maintenance , it's also not enough to allow you to actually legally work on gas . Oh and gas is very clean , look at this suprima , spotless !

DGOBS

But its fear that people service their boiler out of. My plumber doesnt ever service his own boiler. He claims boiler services are a scam, that boilers dont need to be serviced that regularly at all. Think about it. A boiler is designed to last 20 years and it burns the cleanest fuel possible. Natural gas doesnt leave a tar or a residue. So why should it need to be cleaned? It doesnt. If you are afraid of carbon monoxide then install an alarm.

Pictures speak louder than words (compliments of Egass)
You decide.

An example unserviced boiler:

cerastes

It does seem to have a bit of a problem
You can see that a service would have done some good at some stage to detect this, but it looks like something else contributed to it too? a leak, even a small one over time? that went unnoticed due to the lack of service..
Hard to see how it was producing much heat?

edit or maybe thats why the owner called for it to be checked?

Egass13

cerastes wrote: »

It does seem to have a bit of a problem
You can see that a service would have done some good at some stage to detect this, but it looks like something else contributed to it too? a leak, even a small one over time? that went unnoticed due to the lack of service..
Hard to see how it was producing much heat?

edit or maybe thats why the owner called for it to be checked?

My theory is Problem was a very blocked never before serviced , burner and/or injectors , sooted up the heat exchanger . Caused poc's to flood the combustion chamber , creating condensation which rotted everything . there was no leaks on heat exchanger and system was holding pressure , also flue was intact and in decent condition. Customer only rang in because it stopped working due to the fan blowing the fuse on the Pcb. Otherwise they might never have bothered. Also I might add the viewing glass had fallen off the front cover , so boiler was no longer room sealed . Can only imagine the levels of CO that it was spewing out .