Cyclocross specific forks

clod71

I'm on the market for a cyclocross bike (don't tell my wife), mostly for gravel spins and "adventure trips" in the woods during the winter... Also, I thought that I could use the bike in extreme conditions for my commute, due to the better grip with a 35/37mm tire with ice and snow if they ever come.
In other words, an all-rounder...
My question is the following:
Could you mount a more ordinary set of wheels to accommodate let's say a 25mm tire or even a 28mm, in case I wanted to use it for winter club spins?
And in that case how does the disk brake work? (I'm not familiar with them...)
Is it just a matter to change the wheel or some tweaking has to be done?

Thanks in advance

Raam

You could buy a CX bike without disc brakes then you can swap any regular road wheel in. Trying to use regular road wheels on a disc CX bike would firstly mean that you need a CX frame which also has regular brake bosses. You could also have issues with wheel spacing if you went that route.

ROK ON

clod71 wrote: »

My question is the following:
Could you mount a more ordinary set of wheels to accommodate let's say a 25mm tire or even a 28mm, in case I wanted to use it for winter club spins?
And in that case how does the disk brake work? (I'm not familiar with them...)
Is it just a matter to change the wheel or some tweaking has to be done?

Thanks in advance

Yes - you can do this and I have for a non-disc CX bike.
The only issue I would have is that V-brakes are pretty poor in terms of stopping power - particularly for long descents or fast roads with tight turns. They are sometimes prone to fork judder (a technical term!).
No experience with disc version.

Lumen

You could just swap the tyres.

nak

ROK ON wrote: »

Yes - you can do this and I have for a non-disc CX bike.
The only issue I would have is that V-brakes are pretty poor in terms of stopping power - particularly for long descents or fast roads with tight turns. They are sometimes prone to fork judder (a technical term!).
No experience with disc version.

V brakes work well, cantilevers aren't as good. No fork judder with mini vs for me, only with cantis and have now stopped that by changing setup.

clod71

Lumen wrote: »

You could just swap the tyres.

Thanks Lumen, I thought you'd need different wheels to accommodate 28 and 35, if not even 37 mm tyres...
That would be the best option for me as I'd like to go with disk brakes for this particular bike.
Thanks everyone else for the answers. Much appreciated

Lumen

clod71 wrote: »

I thought you'd need different wheels to accommodate 28 and 35, if not even 37 mm tyres...

I think I've run 42mm tyres on standard road rims (Open Pro) on one of my more stupid bikes, and fat rims for 23mm tyres are all the rage.

outfox

+1. I've got 35 mm knobblies on wheels that came with 23 mm tyres. FWIW, I estimate the difference in speed at about 2-3 km/h.
Clod71, wheels and tyres are unlikely to be your issue. The issue with CX is brakes. Cantis are poor. They are almost zero in the wet. Mini Vs are supposed to be better, but I've never tried them. Disc brakes are your best bet if you dont mind the extra weight, but the basic cable discs are sh1te, and will soon be obsolete. So you'll have to pay a bit extra for cable actuated hydraulic brakes (such as TRP HY/RD) at the very least, which means your bike budget is probably going to be at least 1400 euro or above. You could go for full hydraulic brakes, but the budget pushes towards 2000 euro. The other problem with disc brakes is that if you decide to run 2 wheel sets, cost will go up.
A simpler option is just run the same wheels and tyres all year round. I use the knobblies on the road and find them OK, although they've slightly less grip on the road. Maybe semi-slicks might do for roads and tracks?

Lumen

Disc brakes are fine for a (non-racing) CX bike that is going to be ridden off road but isn't going to get shouldered, but most of the cheaper (i.e. not insanely expensive) disc CX bikes are at least a kilo heavier than their canti equivalents, and CX is hard enough without lugging a 10kg bike around.

Any activity which involves carrying a bicycle whist being chased through mud is a bit questionable in my book.

This isn't for racing though.

quozl

I have mini-Vs on my Pompino and they seem good. Good stopping power which is what I've heard is the problem with cantis. The only down-side is that they don't have the modulation that my road caliper bike has - it's less travel from off to on hard, so I have to be gentler.

nak

Lumen wrote: »

Disc brakes are fine for a (non-racing) CX bike that is going to be ridden off road but isn't going to get shouldered, but most of the cheaper (i.e. not insanely expensive) disc CX bikes are at least a kilo heavier than their canti equivalents, and CX is hard enough without lugging a 10kg bike around.

Any activity which involves carrying a bicycle whist being chased through mud is a bit questionable in my book.

This isn't for racing though.

My husband's cross bike has discs and wasn't expensive, weighs a good bit less than 10kg, not a full kg heavier than his canti version. I'll be going for discs next season.

clod71

Being chased in the mud, whilst carrying a bike on my shoulder? No thanks...
Like I said, this would be a build for an all-rounder to use to commute in extreme conditions or wandering in the woods.
I would prefer disc brakes to have more braking power in this case, but if they are going to bring the total cost to the roof, I'd definitely go with V brakes.
I hate Cantilevers. Always did, always will...
Weight is not really an issue here and for that reason, I keep looking at sturdy steel, in particular at that gate that is the Surly Cross-Check.

outfox

How about Genesis Crois de Fer or CDA?

clod71

outfox wrote: »

How about Genesis Crois de Fer or CDA?

That's the other frame I was looking at, but it costs definitely more with Reynolds tubing. I already have a Genesis Aether by the way and I love the bike and the brand. Looks like on its own the frame is sold in a bronze colour and I don't see myself riding that... I really don't like it and there's another thing that the Cross-Check has, a horizontal top tube. I know, it's just aesthetic, but I really like it...
still, it will take a long time before I press the "buy" button...
Today I was checking the weight and the cross-check full frameset should be around 3,2 kg including the fork (0.99 Kg).
How much will I save in weight going with reynolds or columbus tubing?

Alek

My Croix de Fer frameset (Reynolds 725, 58cm) is just a tad over 3kg with steel fork.

2015 equivalent version might be ~2.7kg (carbon fork)

Note that these frames are made from oversized tubing and are very stiff and robust - they have been designed to carry extra weight for touring. This is probably overkill for commuting (strength) or CX racing (weight), but I am super happy with my Badger in either role

clod71

I have gotten to the bottom of this now folks and I decided for the Surly Cross-Check... Looks like it thicks all the boxes
Darren in Cyclebike was very good and I would really like to buy from them... Still, I found the same frameset (well... maybe it's the 2014 version) online for 150 euro less.
I'll get a good enough pair of wheels for that money or several other goodies anyway...
What to do?

clod71

This will be the first time that I build a bike, so I want to start with something easy...
Like I said at the start of the thread, in my head this is going to be more like an adventure/trail bike, so I was thinking at 35mm tyres at least (maybe 42mm?), maybe even canti brakes, and drops.
As for the gears I'm a bit stuck...
For the sake of simplicity, I would like to leave a single crank/ring in the front, but I still would like to have some 10 speed in the back.
What do I have to look for... can I mix and match anything from SRAM and Shimano?
What do you suggest in the front... 34T or 38T?
How about the back... Would a 34/28 bring me up everywhere?
Also, as it is only the back... can I use STI or do I have to use downshifters? I also saw shifters as an extension of the drops and they look pretty cool, but probably not as easy to use while climbing???

That is a lot of stuff I threw in there...

Thanks again for any help

bobcranfret

While a single chainring on the front will be more straightforward to fit and set up, you would be losing out on the versatility of the bike e.g. for winter club spins which you mentioned. I built up a Planet-X Uncle John CX frameset using an SRAM Apex Compact 50/34 drive-train and the 11/32 cassette.The first version had drop bars and the Apex STI-type shifters and cantilever brakes. I later changed to a flat bar set-up with SRAM double-tap shifters, the same drive-train and V brakes. I used 700x32 tyres and the bike was great for spins on gravel paths and for general shopping with heavily-loaded panniers. The drop bar version with narrower tyres (700x25) was perfect for road spins. I am now transferring the equipment to a Pinnacle Arkose CX frame which I got from Evans. I found the Apex groupset very easy to fit and set up. The front derailleur cable on most cyclocross bikes is routed along the top tube and down behind the seat tube so, if using a standard bottom-pull road derailleur, you need a gizmo to cater for the top-pull set up:

http://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/FSOODDPULLY/on-one-dirty-disco-front-mech-pulley

I have built up a couple of bikes and I have found that, if you have the right tools, it is quite straightforward. In fact I think that the trickiest part is fitting the derailleur cables and indexing the gears!

Good luck with your project!

outfox

If you decide to go traditional CX gearing, with a 46-36 chainset, bear in mind that the range is quite limiting. A compact or even semi-compact might be better.
If you want to keep it really simple, how about a rear hub gear set up? I think you can get them now with 11 gears.

clod71

ahhh, I really don't know what to do. I've a bike with Campy, another one with Shimano and I really don't feel like fitting SRAM on this new arrival, even though maybe it really is the best option being the only with a 12-32 cassette optional... I saw they even have a 12/36 cassette, and with a 46/34 in the front I should be able to use a medium cage Rear Derailleur for 1 tooth as the max. capacity should be 37T
Still... I'd like the keep Campy, 'cos I like it, but mostly for consistency and the ability to swap things around, just in case...
Campy does a 13/29... would it be possible in your opinion going round an MTB trail or up a muddy hill with a 34/29 ratio? I'm mostly ok climbing, but they tell me the woods are a completely different story altogether...

There are also a CX crankset and BB cups version of the Veloce 10sp, and 12% percent off everything on Ribble at the moment...

outfox

clod71 wrote: »

would it be possible in your opinion going round an MTB trail or up a muddy hill with a 34/29 ratio? I'm mostly ok climbing, but they tell me the woods are a completely different story altogether...

I've never gone up a muddy hill with the CX, so can't answer.

lennymc

clod71 wrote: »

would it be possible in your opinion going round an MTB trail or up a muddy hill with a 34/29 ratio?

I regularly go on trails and hills on my crosscheck with a 36/25 ratio. 34/29 would be plenty for most trails. The cross check is a surprisingly capable bike - i race mine - and often surprises me with what it can actually take on. Some of the more severe mtb downhill stuff might be too much for it tho. I bought mine from Terry in cyclebike - nice to have the back up if needed.

My cross check is currently built up as a cx race bike, running 105 fr & rr, carbon wheels, fsa canti, sram apex crank with 46/36 cx rings. Not sure what it weighs, but i recently compared it to another cx bike and there wasn't a whole lot in it. It rides really well, handles really well, and when the cx season is over, I'm going to try it as a long commuter. I ran it single speed for a year, now have cx gearing, but will put road gearing on it. It will take tyres up to 44 iirc. I would highly recomend one.

clod71

lennymc wrote: »

I regularly go on trails and hills on my crosscheck with a 36/25 ratio. 34/29 would be plenty for most trails. The cross check is a surprisingly capable bike - i race mine - and often surprises me with what it can actually take on. Some of the more severe mtb downhill stuff might be too much for it tho. I bought mine from Terry in cyclebike - nice to have the back up if needed.

My cross check is currently built up as a cx race bike, running 105 fr & rr, carbon wheels, fsa canti, sram apex crank with 46/36 cx rings. Not sure what it weighs, but i recently compared it to another cx bike and there wasn't a whole lot in it. It rides really well, handles really well, and when the cx season is over, I'm going to try it as a long commuter. I ran it single speed for a year, now have cx gearing, but will put road gearing on it. It will take tyres up to 44 iirc. I would highly recomend one.

Thank you Lenny, I was going to buy the bike from Terry and Darren, but then I found it for 150 euro cheaper online... Lovely lads, but being in Cork myself I wouldn't have had the advantage of touching the bike either...
Anyway, I have decided for a Veloce (for consistency and because it looks nice), possibly with the 46/36 specific CX chainset and in the back I will use a 12/25 cassette which has been sitting on a spare wheel for a while... Tektro cr720 Canti and I was thinking at either Conti Cyclocross Speed or the Schwalbe Sammy Slick... Both 35mm as I want to actually get to the office at some stage...
I'm even considering powder coating it. I found a crowd in Cork who would do it for 120 and, as this is going to be a frame for life, I keep saying to myself... Why not?
I really looking forward to riding it, but I still have to get the frame...

Thanks again,
Claudio

clod71

I saw in many photos Surly bikes come with this Salsa Woodchipper 2 handlebar... Strange, but good looking item and apparently is quite comfortable too
I like it

Alek

This woodchipper looks quite dangerous for CX... you may chip some wood off trees with it indeed ;-)

lennymc

the surlys are powder coated from the factory. Nice durable finish. i love mine.

clod71

Alek wrote: »

This woodchipper looks quite dangerous for CX... you may chip some wood off trees with it indeed ;-)

I'd be certainly concerned, if I was a tree...

clod71

lennymc wrote: »

the surlys are powder coated from the factory. Nice durable finish. i love mine.

Any pic of it lenny? I'd love to see how you set it up...

clod71

I'm nearly there... any specific tyre that you guys would recommend for a mix of cross (not racing) and commute in the 35mm range?

lennymc

clod71 wrote: »

Any pic of it lenny? I'd love to see how you set it up...

only seeing this now - there are more pics in some of the cyclocross threads



kenda small block 8s might be a good tyre for a mix of tarmac and gravel. Don't know how long you would get out of a set tho.

clod71

Thanks Lenny, I now regret not to have gone for the hospital green... That looks like a proper Surly! I'll end up painting it I'd say.
I was also looking at the Sammy Slick.. Some reviewers say that they wear quite quickly, but I think I'll give it a go...
I will have a set of "normal" tyres on a different set of wheels for that faster commute, providing that there isn't too much adjusting to do with the brakes.

lennymc

I have the sammy slicks, but they are tubs. I use them for racing when it's not that muddy or wet. I also have schwalbe marathon winter tyres (with studs, but they are available without studs) which could be another tyre to consider. The hospital foam green sounds manky, but is really nice in the flesh. I'm looking forward to seeing your build.

clod71

Frame and fork came in yesterday, but I'll have to wait for all the rest to come before even starting.
it'll take some time I think