Truck overtaking ban

keithclancy

Just saw on the news that they've extending the truck overtaking restrictions on two lane motorways over here.

Got me thinking, it seems pretty pointless sometimes for a truck to sit on the limiter for 5 minutes overtaking and then pulling back in 50 meters ahead of where they would have been earlier.

Do you think they should bring in a truck overtaking ban during certain hours in Ireland ?

Over here its:

0600-0700
0600-1000/1500-1900 (Rush Hour)
24/7
Dynamic (Indicated by signs and implemented when traffic demands it)

Map
http://www.rijkswaterstaat.nl/images/Huidig%20inhaalverbod%20vrachtverkeer_tcm174-365538.pdf

Sheldons Brain

THere is already a truck overtaking ban, but given the usual levels of Irish enforcement you'd never think it.

CiniO

I'm not sure if I understand your question, but there already is the overtaking ban on 2 lane motorways in Ireland, which applies to trucks (both rigid and articualted) and any other vehicle towing trailer.

Dial Hard

Sheldons Brain wrote: »

THere is already a truck overtaking ban, but given the usual levels of Irish enforcement you'd never think it.

This. It's already illegal for HGVs to overtake on two-lane motorways here.

Gazzmonkey

Dial Hard wrote: »

This. It's already illegal for HGVs to overtake on two-lane motorways here.

Really!! I see trucks / lorries overtaking on the M1, M50 & M11 all the time. Had no idea they were breaking the law, I'll be flashing & beeping more often then so :pac:

Jesus.

I'd heard there was an overtaking ban but I figured there wasn't because they're always doing it. Yesterday on the M1 a Tanker pulled out and spent about 3 minutes trying to get past another Truck who was going around 1mph slower than him. With the high wind, the liquid slashing about in the back and he very nearly lost control, having to break hard which meant it took him even longer to complete his manoeuvre. There was a big tailback of traffic waiting to get past.

I see this happen regularly and you'd wonder what's the point in the driver attempting it in the first place?

CreepingDeath

Gazzmonkey wrote: »

Really!! I see trucks / lorries overtaking on the M1, M50 & M11 all the time.

I see them dangerously overtaking in the 4th lane (including exit lane) on the M50 in pouring rain...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29LpY1s50_4

keithclancy

Gazzmonkey wrote: »

Really!! I see trucks / lorries overtaking on the M1, M50 & M11 all the time. Had no idea they were breaking the law, I'll be flashing & beeping more often then so :pac:

News to me also, all trucks seem to do it, regularly saw it happen on the M8 and thought WTF !

corktina

Jesus. wrote: »

I'd heard there was an overtaking ban but I figured there wasn't because they're always doing it. Yesterday on the M1 a Tanker pulled out and spent about 3 minutes trying to get past another Truck who was going around 1mph slower than him. With the high wind, the liquid slashing about in the back and he very nearly lost control, having to break hard which meant it took him even longer to complete his manoeuvre. There was a big tailback of traffic waiting to get past.

I see this happen regularly and you'd wonder what's the point in the driver attempting it in the first place?

oh my three minutes, how did you explain your lateness at destination?

Liquid sloshing about in the back? yeah right!

SpaceTime

It's not fun when they do it without bothering to check their mirrors.

I was on the M8 passing two trucks and next thing one pulls out giving me only metres of clearance causing me to have to suddenly slow down and causing the car behind me to nearly cause a pile up.

I blasted the horn, he gave me the finger.

So I rang the supermarket whose logo was emblazoned on the side of the truck and have them his reg and details.

(from the next services not while driving)

truedoom

there's a truck overtaking ban? :O

Dr Turk Turkelton

truedoom wrote: »

there's a truck overtaking ban? :O

Obviously a truck driver.

tossy

CreepingDeath wrote: »

I see them dangerously overtaking in the 4th lane (including exit lane) on the M50 in pouring rain...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29LpY1s50_4

That video is shocking

yipeeeee

Isn't the m50 3 lanes?

CiniO

tossy wrote: »

That video is shocking

I watched it twice, and except from fact that truck broke the law and overtook (using right most lane) what is so shocking there? Am I missing something?

CiniO

yipeeeee wrote: »

Isn't the m50 3 lanes?

Trucks can not use the most-right lane.
So on 3 lane motorways, they can only overtake on middle lane.

CiniO

keithclancy wrote: »

Just saw on the news that they've extending the truck overtaking restrictions on two lane motorways over here.

Got me thinking, it seems pretty pointless sometimes for a truck to sit on the limiter for 5 minutes overtaking and then pulling back in 50 meters ahead of where they would have been earlier.

Do you think they should bring in a truck overtaking ban during certain hours in Ireland ?

Over here its:

0600-0700
0600-1000/1500-1900 (Rush Hour)
24/7
Dynamic (Indicated by signs and implemented when traffic demands it)

Map

And actually answering your question I think this should be the case (bolded).

Having permanent ban is not good at all, and no surprise drivers don't obey it.

Imagine travelling from Galway to Dublin - 200km. At 90km/h you will do it in 2hours and 13 minutes.
If you get stock behind someone doing 80km/h then you need 2 hours and 30 minutes.
If you are stock behind someone doing 60km/h then you need 3 hours and 20 minutes.

That's considerable difference in travel time.

H3llR4iser

CiniO wrote: »

I watched it twice, and except from fact that truck broke the law and overtook (using right most lane) what is so shocking there? Am I missing something?

Not to mention the car carrying the dashcam flying up the inside of the rest of the traffic (not sure about Dublin and that road stretch, I see it looks like it's a slip road. If you do that around Cork other drivers will squeeze you to the left INTENTIONALLY). Oh and there's a van driving on the hard shoulder up ahead.

Truck overtaking ban can only really work where there is either an enforced minimum speed limit of 80 km/h for cars, or driving culture is such that nobody strolls around motorways at 60 km/h. And a ban for tractors, of course.

tossy

CiniO wrote: »

I watched it twice, and except from fact that truck broke the law and overtook (using right most lane) what is so shocking there? Am I missing something?

Yes,i should have put one of these after my post " :rolleyes: "

Jesus.

corktina wrote: »

oh my three minutes, how did you explain your lateness at destination? Liquid sloshing about in the back? yeah right!

Personal abuse.

Ban please....

tossy

Jesus. wrote: »

Personal abuse.

Ban please....

How is that personal abuse?

AndyBoBandy

yipeeeee wrote: »

Isn't the m50 3 lanes?

South of Leopardstown its back down to 2 lanes, and the limit increases to 120 km/h

Jesus.

CreepingDeath wrote: »

I see them dangerously overtaking in the 4th lane (including exit lane) on the M50 in pouring rain...

The way you were undertaking there would have some folk up in arms if you were one lane to your right. If its alright doing it in an exit lane, why do people jump up and down about it when its done in the driving lane?

R.O.R

Jesus. wrote: »

The way you were undertaking there would have some folk up in arms if you were one lane to your right. If its alright doing it in an exit lane, why do people jump up and down about it when its done in the driving lane?

Because they know how you are allowed to use the relevant lanes?

Jesus.

CiniO wrote: »

Trucks can not use the most-right lane. So on 3 lane motorways, they can only overtake on middle lane.

So they're allowed overtake on the M50 but not on two lane Motorways, is that it?

CiniO

Jesus. wrote: »

The way you were undertaking there would have some folk up in arms if you were one lane to your right. If its alright doing it in an exit lane, why do people jump up and down about it when its done in the driving lane?

It's not allright doing on an exit lane.

CiniO

Jesus. wrote: »

So they're allowed overtake on the M50 but not on two lane Motorways, is that it?

Effectively yes...
Just not allowed to overtake using most-right lane.
If there's only two lanes, then it means no overtaking at all.

Jesus.

tossy wrote: »

How is that personal abuse?

It isn't. That poster got me banned before citing personal abuse when it was as benign as what he's just posted.

I was being ironic

Jesus.

R.O.R wrote: »

Because they know how you are allowed to use the relevant lanes?

So its okay to undertake on an exit lane but not in a driving lane?

Can't really see the difference myself

tossy

Jesus. wrote: »

It isn't. That poster got me banned before citing personal abuse when it was as benign as what he's just posted.

I was being ironic

Probably best letting karma look after that.

padd b1975

R.O.R wrote: »

Because they know how you are allowed to use the relevant lanes?

Speaking as a truck driver....

Lane 1. Tescos trucks.

Lane 2. Overtaking tescos truck's.

Lane 3. Late for the boat.

Del2005

R.O.R wrote: »

Because they know how you are allowed to use the relevant lanes?

Just because something is legal doesn't make it safe. If it's "dangerous" to pass on the left on a multi lane road how does a slightly fatter line make all the morons who don't check that the inside lane is clear before they swing into it suddenly better driver's?

CreepingDeath

CiniO wrote: »

I watched it twice, and except from fact that truck broke the law and overtook (using right most lane) what is so shocking there? Am I missing something?

Yes, safety distances. That trucker was far too close for even a car in the dry, never mind an artic in the rain.

He was about half the length of his own truck behind the other artic in the middle lane.
Then veered into the third lane only a couple of car lengths behind a red van (24s) whose brake lights just came on.

corktina

yipeeeee wrote: »

Isn't the m50 3 lanes?

4 in places including weaving lane

Jesus.

Del2005 wrote: »

Just because something is legal doesn't make it safe. If it's "dangerous" to pass on the left on a multi lane road how does a slightly fatter line make all the morons who don't check that the inside lane is clear before they swing into it suddenly better driver's?

I'd look at it from the opposite viewpoint. If its okay to undertake in the exit lane, then it must surely then be okay to do so in lane 1.

I think it is anyway. I do it all the time.

Dial Hard

Jesus. wrote: »

I'd look at it from the opposite viewpoint. If its okay to undertake in the exit lane, then it must surely then be okay to do so in lane 1.

I think it is anyway. I do it all the time.

Jesus, don't pull on that thread...

CiniO

Jesus. wrote: »

I'd look at it from the opposite viewpoint. If its okay to undertake in the exit lane, then it must surely then be okay to do so in lane 1.

I think it is anyway. I do it all the time.

Jesus who said it was OK to undertake in the exit lane?
There's no law making any exception for exit lane.

Law only allows to undertake just before you turn, if you are signalling left turn. And it's obvious that's not right, because this law was designed for city traffic where it makes sense, but was never updated for motorways - but unfortunately applies to them as well.
But there is nothing in law allowing to undertake on exit lane for few kilometres before exit like one of those lanes in the video from M50.

Jesus.

Don't know about the law in this regard Cinio and I don't particularly care. I doubt there's anything in law forbidding people from doing it either, is there?

CiniO

Jesus. wrote: »

Don't know about the law in this regard Cinio and I don't particularly care. I doubt there's anything in law forbidding people from doing it either, is there?

There is:
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1997/en/si/0182.html#zzsi182y1997a10

(4) Subject to the provisions of sub-article (5), a driver shall overtake on the right and shall not move in towards the left until it is safe to do so.

(5) A driver may only overtake on the left—

( a ) where the driver of the vehicle about to be overtaken has signalled an intention to turn to the right and the driver of the overtaking vehicle intends, after overtaking, to go straight ahead or to turn to the left,
( b ) where the driver of the overtaking vehicle intends, after overtaking, to turn left at the next road junction and has signalled this intention,
( c ) in slow moving traffic, when vehicles in the traffic lane on the driver's right are moving more slowly than the overtaking vehicle.

Bio Mech

yipeeeee wrote: »

Isn't the m50 3 lanes?

OP clearly said 4 included the entry/exit lane.

CreepingDeath

CiniO wrote: »

Jesus who said it was OK to undertake in the exit lane?
There's no law making any exception for exit lane.

The exit lane on the M50 is the same speed limit as the motorway, 100kph.
If the other cars aren't doing "normal speeds" you can undertake with caution.

Same can't be said for the truck (which is the primary focus of this thread by the way).

Trucks have to be held to stricter standards because they have the potential for significantly greater damage/injuries.

db

CreepingDeath wrote: »

Yes, safety distances. That trucker was far too close for even a car in the dry, never mind an artic in the rain.

He was about half the length of his own truck behind the other artic in the middle lane.
Then veered into the third lane only a couple of car lengths behind a red van (24s) whose brake lights just came on.

How about the driver adjusting his load in the hard shoulder @ 35 seconds.

porsche959

Sheldons Brain wrote: »

THere is already a truck overtaking ban, but given the usual levels of Irish enforcement you'd never think it.

"but given the usual levels of Irish enforcement you'd never think it."

- I find this type of comment ill-informed, tbh.

The statistics demonstrate that Dublin has the safest roads in the EU - and the EU includes such relatively safe driving countries as, for example, the UK, and the country the OP is resident in, Germany.

Some will never be happy and will constantly demand more and more restrictions and enforcement, while continuing to feed their theory that Ireland is some kind of lawless outpost of Max Max-style banditry - but the figures show the complete opposite.

Try driving in a third world country, or even, say, Greece, and you will see what I mean.

keithclancy

porsche959 wrote: »

"but given the usual levels of Irish enforcement you'd never think it."

- I find this type of comment ill-informed, tbh.

The statistics demonstrate that Dublin has the safest roads in the EU - and the EU includes such relatively safe driving countries as, for example, the UK, and the country the OP is resident in, Germany.

Some will never be happy and will constantly demand more and more restrictions and enforcement, while continuing to feed their theory that Ireland is some kind of lawless outpost of Max Max-style banditry - but the figures show the complete opposite.

Try driving in a third world country, or even, say, Greece, and you will see what I mean.

My point wasn't on safety at all ... its about the flow of traffic, two trucks blocking a two lane motorway is a bloody pain in the arse and creates a rolling roadblock for kilometers.

The enforcement and advertisement of such a restriction is so poor that some people didn't even know it existed (including me)

For such a relatively large country in relation to the population size.. the road management is quite poor in Ireland.

CreepingDeath

db wrote: »

How about the driver adjusting his load in the hard shoulder @ 35 seconds.

Good point... he was blocking another lane after failing to check that his load was secure before setting out.

tossy

CreepingDeath wrote: »

Good point... he was blocking another lane after failing to check that his load was secure before setting out.

He may be guilty of not checking his load was secure, who knows? sh1t does happen you know ? Im surprised the driver of the car even noticed him as he was so focused on the actions of a truck 3 lanes away and ahead of him.

Was it you that's driving ? I'd say you have Joe Duffy on speed dial putting the world to rights.

Im all for dash cams if the catch something funny or help the driver with an insurance claim or provide first hand evidence as to what caused an accident,but youtube is just full of the dullest dash cam videos ever where NOTHING happens and there is NOTHING really to see.

CreepingDeath

tossy wrote: »

Im surprised the driver of the car even noticed him as he was so focused on the actions of a truck 3 lanes away and ahead of him.

Was it you that's driving ? I'd say you have Joe Duffy on speed dial putting the world to rights.

Yep, was me driving and I saw the truck on the hard shoulder well in advance but YouTube video stabilisation makes it hard to see that I had started to pull out slowly well in advance.

Nope, no fan of Joe Duffy.
Only ever reported a taxi for nearly ramming into the side of my car when my wife was 9 months pregnant in the passenger seat.

Jesus.

CiniO wrote: »

There is:
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1997/en/si/0182.html#zzsi182y1997a10

Cinio, that don't prove sh*t. I asked was there any law forbidding undertaking yet you show me a quote on what you "shall" do.

Where's the law saying what you "shan't" or are forbidden from doing?

slimjimmc

Jesus. wrote: »

Cinio, that don't prove sh*t. I asked was there any law forbidding undertaking yet you show me a quote on what you "shall" do.

Where's the law saying what you "shan't" or are forbidden from doing?

You seemed to have missed the word "only" in the legislation he quoted. If you are only allowed to overtake on the left under specific circumstances it clearly follows that it's prohibited outside those circumstances.
"(5) A driver may only overtake on the left—"

Jesus.

No I didn't. Doesn't (B) specify that you're allowed undertake if you're turning left? Which brings us right back to the original point. Cinio says you're not allowed do it even though you're in an exit lane for the express purpose of turning left, IE getting off the carriageway.

corktina

Jesus. wrote: »

No I didn't. Doesn't (B) specify that you're allowed undertake if you're turning left? Which brings us right back to the original point. Cinio says you're not allowed do it even though you're in an exit lane for the express purpose of turning left, IE getting off the carriageway.

I'm with you The very fact you are in the exit lane is a signal that you are turning left. You have, in other words, signalled your intention to turn left by being I the left turn lane.