Value in Cattle

TUBBY

What ye reckon folks. been to few marts lately and cant understand the price being paid for light weanlings.
hard make anything off them Imo.

light stores - heifers in particular- also pricy.

buying at the minute and planned to buy light stores for late next year but seeing what's going on, I reckon there much better value in forward stores at present.

larger cattle needing the shed are very easy bought.
what do ye think. Any reasons for this in yer opinions.

simx

TUBBY wrote: »

What ye reckon folks. been to few marts lately and cant understand the price being paid for light weanlings.
hard make anything off them Imo.

light stores - heifers in particular- also pricy.

buying at the minute and planned to buy light stores for late next year but seeing what's going on, I reckon there much better value in forward stores at present.

larger cattle needing the shed are very easy bought.
what do ye think. Any reasons for this in yer opinions.

get what ya mean, sold a few weanlings lately and one in particular i couldnt get over what she made, a white bbx heifer out of a blue cow, born mid/late june 170kg made 610e, when i seen her weight i said to myself il be bringing her home, usually buy cull cows but was contemplating buying a few forward blks(70-120 days to finish) as ive seen some i thought were value for money, imo the lighter weanlings/stores never made finacial sense

Willfarman

I think tubby you are on the ball there.

simx

Willfarman wrote: »

I think tubby you are on the ball there.

what kind of blks are you buying atm? just going overage types? or lads that will just about be done before 30 mnths? sorry if being nosey

2pack

why are herefords so sought after at present

bogman_bass

I dont buy much in the way of cattle but going buy the talk on this site I'd be looking for stock that are the "wrong colour" since golden charolais alway make crazy money.

The BB bullock from the dairy herd has always been the most profitable animal when ever we've bought

Insp. Harry Callahan

I bought some heifer weanlings this year, weights where between 250-340, good Charlaois and a few Lims costing on average 2.10 a kg, thought this wasn't too bad, seen people paying way too much for calves at the sales

Willfarman

simx wrote: »

what kind of blks are you buying atm? just going overage types? or lads that will just about be done before 30 mnths? sorry if being nosey

I like em young like my woman! Ah was picking up lads 400 to 600 kgs that would hopefully come in under age. Mix of breeds but mainly cont cross. Getting close to full here now . Avg with the good bad and ugly for last 4 weeks is 528kgs €965. Anything that will be finished by mid march will be pushed on. Did you buy overage lads?

TUBBY

Willfarman wrote: »

I like em young like my woman! Ah was picking up lads 400 to 600 kgs that would hopefully come in under age. Mix of breeds but mainly cont cross. Getting close to full here now . Avg with the good bad and ugly for last 4 weeks is 528kgs €965. Anything that will be finished by mid march will be pushed on. Did you buy overage lads?

same as that. Picking up 470-500kg for well under 2/kg. Underage when selling hopefully. Not top of range cattle, angus and he.

was looking at weanlimg he going 280kg for E625. Bought better shapy he 485kg for 930.
in other words, 200kg extra for E300.

Willfarman

TUBBY wrote: »

same as that. Picking up 470-500kg for well under 2/kg. Underage when selling hopefully. Not top of range cattle, angus and he.

was looking at weanlimg he going 280kg for E625. Bought better shapy he 485kg for 930.
in other words, 200kg extra for E300.

The boys buying the 600 plus overage lads are looking at us with similar bemusement I'd say tubby! Severe oversteer posted on this somewhere some examples. Got v good value.

_Brian

TUBBY wrote: »

same as that. Picking up 470-500kg for well under 2/kg. Underage when selling hopefully. Not top of range cattle, angus and he.

was looking at weanlimg he going 280kg for E625. Bought better shapy he 485kg for 930.
in other words, 200kg extra for E300.

Just regarding the weanlings ~289kg selling for ~€625
What value do you put on these ??

In all reality they are being sold at or below the cost of bringig them to mart so is it not unreasonable to expect them cheaper ??

simx

Willfarman wrote: »

I like em young like my woman! Ah was picking up lads 400 to 600 kgs that would hopefully come in under age. Mix of breeds but mainly cont cross. Getting close to full here now . Avg with the good bad and ugly for last 4 weeks is 528kgs €965. Anything that will be finished by mid march will be pushed on. Did you buy overage lads?

No I bought up cows as there was a few weeks there I thought they were worth the money, like yourself getting full, might still buy a handful of blks yet just do something different

mf240

Hard to beat friesans for value. Just make sure theres no jersey in them.

simx

mf240 wrote: »

Hard to beat friesans for value. Just make sure theres no jersey in them.

have bought a few frxs here and there but would have been more fr in them than anything else, went on the finest too

Farmer Pudsey

_Brian wrote: »

Just regarding the weanlings ~289kg selling for ~€625
What value do you put on these ??

In all reality they are being sold at or below the cost of bringig them to mart so is it not unreasonable to expect them cheaper ??

In theory yes but most finishers or store producers work on a margin. If you pay too much you eliminate that margin. A 290kg weanling paying 625 is 650 in the yard or thereabouts. They will be with you two winters first one at 1.1 euro/day say for 120 days and 150 for next summer. Dosing transport and sale 50 euro so next November wll be costing you 1040 euro. Wil they be 550kgs, for you to have a margin of 200 euro you will need to get 1250.

If you decide to finish and carry to 670kgs to kill at 370 they be inside 100 ish days net winter say between dosing feeding etc minimum 300 euro. so now they are costing 1350 add a margin of 300 euro and you need him to gross 1650 in the factory or 4.5/kg.


Imn my opinion they are overvalued by 100 euro minimum

_Brian

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

In theory yes but most finishers or store producers work on a margin. If you pay too much you eliminate that margin. A 290kg weanling paying 625 is 650 in the yard or thereabouts. They will be with you two winters first one at 1.1 euro/day say for 120 days and 150 for next summer. Dosing transport and sale 50 euro so next November wll be costing you 1040 euro. Wil they be 550kgs, for you to have a margin of 200 euro you will need to get 1250.

If you decide to finish and carry to 670kgs to kill at 370 they be inside 100 ish days net winter say between dosing feeding etc minimum 300 euro. so now they are costing 1350 add a margin of 300 euro and you need him to gross 1650 in the factory or 4.5/kg.


Imn my opinion they are overvalued by 100 euro minimum

Thanks for putting more numbers in the equation..
But is it not reasonable that that €100 should be expected at the end of the supply chain rather than at the begining..
Point being that efficient men are producing weanlings at ~€650 all costs in, now there is very little room to squeeze this lower, but surely there is room in the factory for the real cost of the product to be realised.

My only comment is that in a perfect world lads shouldn't be hitting the mart with these smaller weanlings as they're setting themselves up to be in a break even position..
When you see other lads with weanlings hitting €800-900. Herd management and genetics to have a calf hitting the ground in Feb/March and then on the October/November scales in the mart getting the €800-900. Still costing the €650 to get there but selling for more.. No winter and near all grass growth, an ideal system but its what lads need to be working towards, my own opinion is that with the safety net of the SFP some guys aren't needing to work towards this in a meaningful way.

Nettleman

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

In theory yes but most finishers or store producers work on a margin. If you pay too much you eliminate that margin. A 290kg weanling paying 625 is 650 in the yard or thereabouts. They will be with you two winters first one at 1.1 euro/day say for 120 days and 150 for next summer. Dosing transport and sale 50 euro so next November wll be costing you 1040 euro. Wil they be 550kgs, for you to have a margin of 200 euro you will need to get 1250.

If you decide to finish and carry to 670kgs to kill at 370 they be inside 100 ish days net winter say between dosing feeding etc minimum 300 euro. so now they are costing 1350 add a margin of 300 euro and you need him to gross 1650 in the factory or 4.5/kg.


Imn my opinion they are overvalued by 100 euro minimum

BRIAN-YA BET ME TOO IT....
I sold a small 7 mths old CH Bull weaning recently, 290kg for €775 gross,
Its generally accepted that cost of a cow calving down every 12 months is about 650. National herd average is 400+ days. That price is probably covering cost of production/cow/stock bull/AI, and that's without overheads, mortalities (which are fact of life).
Your statement above implies that my calf is overvalued by €200, but you don't think I should have a margin for keeping the cow and the calf?
The problem is not so much about overpriced weanings, (& pitching farmer against farmer), I think its that the finisher (which I am also) cannot recover his margin from his end customer. Irish processors wont pay cost of production this year, but there's a belief that the UK processors are paying cost of production, plus a living margin. Hence the protests, and if Irish beef has being devalued in the eyes of the UK consumer, it wasn't the finisher or the suckler man who devalued it. In fact, they increased its marketability by producing much more QA beef, imo.

Farmer Pudsey

_Brian wrote: »

Thanks for putting more numbers in the equation..
But is it not reasonable that that €100 should be expected at the end of the supply chain rather than at the begining..
Point being that efficient men are producing weanlings at ~€650 all costs in, now there is very little room to squeeze this lower, but surely there is room in the factory for the real cost of the product to be realised.

My only comment is that in a perfect world lads shouldn't be hitting the mart with these smaller weanlings as they're setting themselves up to be in a break even position..
When you see other lads with weanlings hitting €800-900. Herd management and genetics to have a calf hitting the ground in Feb/March and then on the October/November scales in the mart getting the €800-900. Still costing the €650 to get there but selling for more.. No winter and near all grass growth, an ideal system but its what lads need to be working towards, my own opinion is that with the safety net of the SFP some guys aren't needing to work towards this in a meaningful way.

On my figures that weanling would leave buyer nothing no matter what system he employs in most cases that calf would lose over 100 euro minimum as finiushed price required is unrealistic. As you point out that calf should be a minimum of 130kgs more and ideally 160 more. Figure change then at 450kgs house as bull and finish at 630kgs @57%KO he kill 360kgs. 150 days feeding costing 400 euro. Say he cost 900 entering the shed his cost at slaughter would be 1300 euro. Add 150 margin and at 1450 and he needs to make 4.02/kg. This is why these bulls make in excess of 2/kg.

If new owner chooses to make a steer of him it is possible again to slaughter within 12 months. Such an animal could be slaughtered at 700kgs LW or 385DW. Assuming again 900 euro cost and 400 to finish add margin of 200 euro and he needs to make 1500 to cover costs 0r 3.9/kg

Brass Tag

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

In theory yes but most finishers or store producers work on a margin. If you pay too much you eliminate that margin. A 290kg weanling paying 625 is 650 in the yard or thereabouts. They will be with you two winters first one at 1.1 euro/day say for 120 days and 150 for next summer. Dosing transport and sale 50 euro so next November wll be costing you 1040 euro. Wil they be 550kgs, for you to have a margin of 200 euro you will need to get 1250.

If you decide to finish and carry to 670kgs to kill at 370 they be inside 100 ish days net winter say between dosing feeding etc minimum 300 euro. so now they are costing 1350 add a margin of 300 euro and you need him to gross 1650 in the factory or 4.5/kg.


Imn my opinion they are overvalued by 100 euro minimum

What you are saying is that the suckler has to bring weanling to market at a price which gives the forward store / finisher their "book" margins.

Apart from making Larry pay fair value for finished beef, I'm sure that logic forces the value or price drop to the bottom rung of the ladder. Primary producer, the suckler man.
I'm beginning to think the spring calving suckler guy will have to think along the lines of selling direct on a contract basis to a finisher in Oct / Nov, X kilos of output at a predetermined price of minimum €2.60 kg. Say mix of good R grades and U grade calves. Fully weaned and vaccinated. Calves need to be over 350 kg average.
No mart fees or associated costs for buyer or seller. Hopefully no disasterous health issues for the buyer as another poster posted about on here recently.

Farmer Pudsey

Brass Tag wrote: »

What you are saying is that the suckler has to bring weanling to market at a price which gives the forward store / finisher their "book" margins.

No the sucker farmer has to produce a weanling as is commercially viable. That is the reality I showed above how the weight of the calf changes the figure completely. They change the figure so much that a 450 kg calf is commercially viable at 4/kg. At a beef price of 4.3/kg finishers can afford to pay 120 more or at a 400kg weight pay a bit below 900 euro.

The gain figures I am showing would require a farmers that is highly stocked to be fairly efficient. Remember he also has to finance the operation 80 suvh cattle will require 70-80K in working capital

TUBBY

_Brian wrote: »

Just regarding the weanlings ~289kg selling for ~€625
What value do you put on these ??

In all reality they are being sold at or below the cost of bringig them to mart so is it not unreasonable to expect them cheaper ??

this was the cheapest weanlung i saw Brian and was an awful specimen. He was a b/w. Most were 300kg 850 bracket.

sh1tstirrer

I saw on another forum where a man bought 8 month old fr bullocks for 250 in July and sold them 3 months later for 398. All they got was a dose and after grass while he had them. You would want to be buying low and selling high though for short term keep to work. I wonder was he a dealer?

TUBBY

The point i was making in initial post is that the lighter the animal, the dearer at the moment.
was not questioning that sucklers shouldn't get a living but i don't think a 250kg animal should get E2.80/kg when his 400kg equivalent is struggling to get E2.30.

that's my main question. Why the drive for very light cattle.

sh1tstirrer

Anyone know what average friesian bullocks around 400kg are making at the moment?

Farmer Pudsey

TUBBY wrote: »

The point i was making in initial post is that the lighter the animal, the dearer at the moment.
was not questioning that sucklers shouldn't get a living but i don't think a 250kg animal should get E2.80/kg when his 400kg equivalent is struggling to get E2.30.

that's my main question. Why the drive for very light contenintal cattle.

Some lads always want front of house cattle. They may be running a low cost system and drawing there payments. Such cattle are easy to winter for first year and can gain half a kg no matter what. Years ago lighter runners(200ish) could leave decent profit. They tended not to suffer from virus's and peunomia as much as softer heavier cattle.

Weanlings 250-350kgs are the biggest gamle IMO. They tend to be more prone to Peunomia as often they are softer cattle and may not be weaned. For the same money as these cattle goodish Friesian store can be bought and they be gone 12-15 months later. However these are often not to a cattle admirer's fancy and he would not have them even at the back of the house.

It was one thing I forgot to factor into the costs of the lighter weanling above and 30ish euro would be the mortality/vet cost on average.

simx

TUBBY wrote: »

The point i was making in initial post is that the lighter the animal, the dearer at the moment.
was not questioning that sucklers shouldn't get a living but i don't think a 250kg animal should get E2.80/kg when his 400kg equivalent is struggling to get E2.30.

that's my main question. Why the drive for very light cattle.

The lighter they are the dearer they are, nearly always been the way IMO, If you seen a calf make €300 and weighed him he would be making a fair price per kg

Brass Tag

This whole cost / price of cattle when you really think about it, is a mystery wrapped inside and enigma:o
Finishers dominating the 9 o'clock news recently explaining to all and sundry about how much money they have lost this year and continue to loose, because of the factory price of beef.
These same guys are paying pretty much the same price for weanlings this year as they did last year.

Somebody is selling beef, but telling porkies:cool:

Quod erat demonstrandum??

onyerbikepat

I think a big reason lighter weanlings are selling so well has to do with working capital. In other words the cost of re-stocking without having to borrow. Borrowing to re-stock is a bridge a lot of farmers are not willing to cross. As we know, factory receipts are well down this year so, farmers are favouring the lower cost continental weanlings as a means of keeping up the numbers and re-stocking.

sh1tstirrer

onyerbikepat wrote: »

I think a big reason lighter weanlings are selling so well has to do with working capital. In other words the cost of re-stocking without having to borrow. Borrowing to re-stock is a bridge a lot of farmers are not willing to cross. As we know, factory receipts are well down this year so, farmers are favouring the lower cost continental weanlings as a means of keeping up the numbers and re-stocking.

I borrowed 5k last year to buy a few extra cattle I got it through a business credit line for 11 months the 5k cost €50 in interest.

It was €30 interest I paid not €50.

Willfarman

The craziest thing i have observe is February to April 13 bullocks top quality continental cattle weighing 470 kgs to maybe as high as 600 kgs would bring 2.20 a kg max. Let in the runt of that type,as long as he had the shape, the same age but weighing only 400 to 470 I have sen them bring as much as 2.60 a kg.

Brass Tag

Willfarman wrote: »

The craziest thing i have observe is February to April 13 bullocks top quality continental cattle weighing 470 kgs to maybe as high as 600 kgs would bring 2.20 a kg max. Let in the runt of that type,as long as he had the shape, the same age but weighing only 400 to 470 I have sen them bring as much as 2.60 a kg.

What's crazy about that?
Younger and lighter the beast, the more they will and should pay per kilo?
A lot of time, investment, working capital and risk consumed to get a live calf on the ground and sucking. Cost or value whichever way you want to look at it is at its peak at this stage in a € per kilo basis!!!
Store and finishing guys on here quickly developing the attitude of the beef baron processors. Devalue and demean the work, sweat, cost and risk taken by primary producer! That may be what's necessary to survive and thrive, but what good will that do when the raw naterial producer is put out of business.
Dairy guy will save you did I hear you say? Maybe!

Willfarman

Brass Tag wrote: »

What's crazy about that?
Younger and lighter the beast, the more they will and should pay per kilo?
A lot of time, investment, working capital and risk consumed to get a live calf on the ground and sucking. Cost or value whichever way you want to look at it is at its peak at this stage in a € per kilo basis!!!
Store and finishing guys on here quickly developing the attitude of the beef baron processors. Devalue and demean the work, sweat, cost and risk taken by primary producer! That may be what's necessary to survive and thrive, but what good will that do when the raw naterial producer is put out of business.
Dairy guy will save you did I hear you say? Maybe!

My good man you have misunderstood the point I'm getting at. The animals are the same age.

Farmer Pudsey

Brass Tag wrote: »

What you are saying is that the suckler has to bring weanling to market at a price which gives the forward store / finisher their "book" margins.

Apart from making Larry pay fair value for finished beef, I'm sure that logic forces the value or price drop to the bottom rung of the ladder. Primary producer, the suckler man.
I'm beginning to think the spring calving suckler guy will have to think along the lines of selling direct on a contract basis to a finisher in Oct / Nov, X kilos of output at a predetermined price of minimum €2.60 kg. Say mix of good R grades and U grade calves. Fully weaned and vaccinated. Calves need to be over 350 kg average.
No mart fees or associated costs for buyer or seller. Hopefully no disasterous health issues for the buyer as another poster posted about on here recently.

Brass Tag wrote: »

What's crazy about that?
Younger and lighter the beast, the more they will and should pay per kilo?
A lot of time, investment, working capital and risk consumed to get a live calf on the ground and sucking. Cost or value whichever way you want to look at it is at its peak at this stage in a € per kilo basis!!!
Store and finishing guys on here quickly developing the attitude of the beef baron processors. Devalue and demean the work, sweat, cost and risk taken by primary producer! That may be what's necessary to survive and thrive, but what good will that do when the raw naterial producer is put out of business.
Dairy guy will save you did I hear you say? Maybe!

WF said cattle were the same age not younger. Friesians are about the only cattle that actually increase in price/kg as they get heavier. In theory yes suckler that are younger should make more however 40c/kg is an awful lot in price. In WF's case a 600kg bullock was makimg 1320 while a 450 bullock was makinh 1170 it works out at 1 euro/kg extra for cattle.

those heavy cattle were within about 70 days of finish but the lighter one would be there for the summer. In your earlier post you talk about 2.6/kg for 350 kg weanlings those weanlings would cost in excess of 900 euro. I stick with the friesians. For 900 euro I be buying a 500+ kg Friesian most years I face only one winter feeding and he be over 700kgs by the following August

We are not devaluing suckler weanling but as finishers we operate on a margin. In general most finishers try to replace cattle sold at there margin wheather this is 60-70 for the 3 month keep animal or 200 for the 12 month animal. If cattle are making more in the factory they pay more but have to pare back if factory prices are poorer. In general Factor prices are on average about 50-70c/kg behind last year. On steers this equates to about to about 180-250/head. Yet in general store cattle are not back that much. So it is not the finisher that is winning this year. Most are gambling that they will recoup losses over the winter with a strong price.

Looking at the price of quality stores these lads will need a base of 4.3/kg+ to break even. I do not think that it is achieveable. If the base this winter is around 4/kg these lads will lose 120/head

TUBBY

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

WF said cattle were the same age not younger. Friesians are about the only cattle that actually increase in price/kg as they get heavier. In theory yes suckler that are younger should make more however 40c/kg is an awful lot in price. In WF's case a 600kg bullock was makimg 1320 while a 450 bullock was makinh 1170 it works out at 1 euro/kg extra for cattle.

those heavy cattle were within about 70 days of finish but the lighter one would be there for the summer. In your earlier post you talk about 2.6/kg for 350 kg weanlings those weanlings would cost in excess of 900 euro. I stick with the friesians. For 900 euro I be buying a 500+ kg Friesian most years I face only one winter feeding and he be over 700kgs by the following August

We are not devaluing suckler weanling but as finishers we operate on a margin. In general most finishers try to replace cattle sold at there margin wheather this is 60-70 for the 3 month keep animal or 200 for the 12 month animal. If cattle are making more in the factory they pay more but have to pare back if factory prices are poorer. In general Factor prices are on average about 50-70c/kg behind last year. On steers this equates to about to about 180-250/head. Yet in general store cattle are not back that much. So it is not the finisher that is winning this year. Most are gambling that they will recoup losses over the winter with a strong price.

Looking at the price of quality stores these lads will need a base of 4.3/kg+ to break even. I do not think that it is achieveable. If the base this winter is around 4/kg these lads will lose 120/head

agreed Pudsey and willfarmer.
the point people are making is there is little sense to current prices where an animal 300kg for example is making only E100 euro less than his 400kg counterpart.

since bulls reqd to finish at 16mths now i thought that logically the heavier bull would be at least as sought after.

i was trying to buy whiteheads at 300kg ish to keep money small on outlay. After going to few marts, i realised fairly quickly that there was no value in this animal compared to 450kg and up. How is this a slight on a suckler farmer.

i know a few very good farmers who have brought very strong weanlings to mart and were disappointed lately with there prices but sold their "runts" and were very happy.

Muckit

It's becoming quite clear that making a few pound has little to do with the number of blue cards you hold.

Bodacious

Muckit wrote: »

It's becoming quite clear that making a few pound has little to do with the number of blue cards you hold.

disheartening stuff too here muckit when you doing it all right,,.. good quality ai calves, strip grazed, meal fed, fully weaned etc


may be the thing to hold just the bare minimum in livestock units to get das/sfp/btap/beef data/genomics/glas.. put as little into them as possible and fire them into mart at 230kg screaming and balling and sweating


bleak approach for a young farmer such as myself but they may be right

Farmer Pudsey

Bodacious wrote: »

disheartening stuff too here muckit when you doing it all right,,.. good quality ai calves, strip grazed, meal fed, fully weaned etc


may be the thing to hold just the bare minimum in livestock units to get das/sfp/btap/beef data/genomics/glas.. put as little into them as possible and fire them into mart at 230kg screaming and balling and sweating


bleak approach for a young farmer such as myself but they may be right

No what we are saying is that the price being paid for light young cattle is unviable for Irish market. I am not saying that lads are not paying it but I cannot see how they make money.

What is viable is a calf from a crossbred cow that is born early(Jan/Feb). If this cow has plenty of milk she should be capable of weaning a calf at 350+kgs in early September. This calf if well bred should be capable of doing 1.2-1.4Kgs/day for next 60 days so that he is at or near 450 kgs. Such a calf is worth 2.2/kg at a beef price of 4.2/kg.

I know a suckler farmers and he is saying that his weanlings are costing 350 off the cows. Not sure how his costs are so low but that is what he tells me.

dh1985

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

No what we are saying is that the price being paid for light young cattle is unviable for Irish market. I am not saying that lads are not paying it but I cannot see how they make money.

What is viable is a calf from a crossbred cow that is born early(Jan/Feb). If this cow has plenty of milk she should be capable of weaning a calf at 350+kgs in early September. This calf if well bred should be capable of doing 1.2-1.4Kgs/day for next 60 days so that he is at or near 450 kgs. Such a calf is worth 2.2/kg at a beef price of 4.2/kg.

I know a suckler farmers and he is saying that his weanlings are costing 350 off the cows. Not sure how his costs are so low but that is what he tells me.

That's very low. Would like to see a breakdown of that. Attemped to reduce cost of holding cows here over the past couple of years and I would say the best achieveable is just over 500e a year. So to drop by a further 150e each is significant. I am not saying it cant be done but I am saying that I couldn't do it. Do you know does he out winter his stock

J.O. Farmer

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

No what we are saying is that the price being paid for light young cattle is unviable for Irish market. I am not saying that lads are not paying it but I cannot see how they make money.

What is viable is a calf from a crossbred cow that is born early(Jan/Feb). If this cow has plenty of milk she should be capable of weaning a calf at 350+kgs in early September. This calf if well bred should be capable of doing 1.2-1.4Kgs/day for next 60 days so that he is at or near 450 kgs. Such a calf is worth 2.2/kg at a beef price of 4.2/kg.

I know a suckler farmers and he is saying that his weanlings are costing 350 off the cows. Not sure how his costs are so low but that is what he tells me.

Your figures as always make sense. However in practical terms it doesn't make sense to have suckler cows calvingIin Jan/Feb on many farms particularly in the west. The cow calves and then you have to keep her inside for 2-3 months because ground is too wet. All the while the cow is on adlib silage and meal increasing cost. Also factor in higher veterinary costs and you drive up production costs. This makes the system unviable. It may work in other parts of theccountry like the golden vale but then dairying is the more viable option.
As for the guy producing calves at 350 he must have a low stocking rate and is he including fixed costs. I would think it costs that to overwinter the cow dry on many farms.

manjou

If you back down the line sold 4to 5 week old calves at about 5 or 6 euro a kilo maybe more as dont know weights. My take on price of weanlings is people have to buy x number and have only so much money to do it so therefore will only spend so much on a calf no matter what weight it is. Maybe i am wrong but thats what i think.

onyerbikepat

Lads, I wouldn't make rash decisions about your farming approach based on one year alone. No more so than in a very good year. I think people who made big changes this year might regret them next year when things return to normal.;)

Willfarman

If you have a herd of good continental type sucklers and you are doing the job middling right. The future has never looked as good IMO. You have walked the hard road this far, I think I'd walk a little further.

_Brian

onyerbikepat wrote: »

Lads, I wouldn't make rash decisions about your farming approach based on one year alone. No more so than in a very good year. I think people who made big changes this year might regret them next year when things return to normal.;)

Sound advice..
Maybe a different scenario but few years ago I was picking up calves from a local dairy man, good progressive operator.. We got chatting about the bad year in '09 and he said he'd lost 1.5c on every liter produced from his 80 cows but things on average were fine. He said that with farming it is dangerous to base decisions on anything other than a five year view of the business.

AP2014

Muckit wrote: »

It's becoming quite clear that making a few pound has little to do with the number of blue cards you hold.

The dogs on the street know this alright, it's all about planting apple trees and dosing dogs now.

Muckit

I don't own a dog but will b e planting plenty of apple trees in the near future. I love apple tart as much as I love steak!!

I said

Muckit wrote: »

I don't own a dog but will b e planting plenty of apple trees in the near future. I love apple tart as much as I love steak!!

I like drinking apples

AP2014

Muckit wrote: »

I don't own a dog but will b e planting plenty of apple trees in the near future. I love apple tart as much as I love steak!!

Are they QA apples? They might not quality if ya don't get a dog from somewhere and dose the fecker!

Midlandsman80

Seems to me that with almost all systems some fella has to take a loss along the way for the others to make money, let that be the suckler man or the fella selling aax, hex or frx as store cattle,
The supply chain is too long in most instances. you would think any industry where you almost always need someone to make a loss before you can make a profit is a broken one

Bodacious

Willfarman wrote: »

If you have a herd of good continental type sucklers and you are doing the job middling right. The future has never looked as good IMO. You have walked the hard road this far, I think I'd walk a little further.

Only thing I'm thinking though is every cow a suckler man has should be bred to throw a yellow or white!

I've red limo , black limo, yellow and whites .. All fit to throw yellow/white hairy lads .. Have a couple of well bred 50% BB X LM springers that I wouldn't or won't be able to use anything else but Lim on and I don't think they'll ever suit my market!

They'd want bb and be pushed for short arsed E grade export calves and the odd c section

TUBBY

How does any lad saying it costs e700 @ year to keep a cow claim they can make a living regardless of weanling price in the autumn.

only a small proportion are the e1000 euro weanling. Average price at a weanling mart would be ~800 say and that's assuming you have a calf for every cow.

at 800 euro an animal and costs of e700 per cow, that's 330 cows to make average industrial wage without subsidies.
so i agree that a,suckler farmer deserves to make money but as with finishing margins are so tight it is a questionable practice.
as someone said, for one to make a decnt profit, the other has to make a loss.

Brass Tag

TUBBY wrote: »

How does any lad saying it costs e700 @ year to keep a cow claim they can make a living regardless of weanling price in the autumn.

only a small proportion are the e1000 euro weanling. Average price at a weanling mart would be ~800 say and that's assuming you have a calf for every cow.

at 800 euro an animal and costs of e700 per cow, that's 330 cows to make average industrial wage without subsidies.
so i agree that a,suckler farmer deserves to make money but as with finishing margins are so tight it is a questionable practice.
as someone said, for one to make a decnt profit, the other has to make a loss.

Strong governance of the supply chain all the way to the processors would help a lot.
Far too much of the processing industry is in the hands of too few operators. Some if the same and most dominant players have tainted reputations going back decades. These same guys once again in horsegate displayed their penchant for reckless behaviour to further enrich themselves at the cost of the country's food producers reputation and livelyhoods.
These same guys move their prices up and down in very narrow bands, in a manner which is very akin to a cartel type arrangement. Competition authority of course has found nothing out of place. Nevertheless if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, the chances are it is a fuukkinng duck!!!
If government applied the same standards of controls and supervision to the killing and processing moguls as the do to the producers, there would be a reasonable slice of the cake for all.