Selling House

RiseNshine

Trying to sell house in Dublin through leading Estate Agent. I am terribly stressed as agent is not drumming up enough interest in our house. Agent has one interested party coming in with low bid and also trying to get me to drop price if the house. I feel very very stressed. Don't know what to do. I was hoping for a few interested parties to express interest and I would get close to asking price. This doesn't seem to be happening. The agent is very defensive and keeps reassuring me they are doing everything they can to sell house. Can anyone guide me on how to proceed. The bidder seems to be looking to get my house for rock bottom price and could be in cahoots with agent for all I know. I just want a fair price. I cannot understand only one party is bidding for a family house in a prime suburb of Dublin. It flies in the face of what the media is peddling at the moment with people scrambling to get a home?

Saipanne

RiseNshine wrote: »

Trying to sell house in Dublin through leading Estate Agent. I am terribly stressed as agent is not drumming up enough interest in our house. Agent has one interested party coming in with low bid and also trying to get me to drop price if the house. I feel very very stressed. Don't know what to do. I was hoping for a few interested parties to express interest and I would get close to asking price. This doesn't seem to be happening. The agent is very defensive and keeps reassuring me they are doing everything they can to sell house. Can anyone guide me on how to proceed. The bidder seems to be looking to get my house for rock bottom price and could be in cahoots with agent for all I know. I just want a fair price. I cannot understand only one party is bidding for a family house in a prime suburb of Dublin. It flies in the face of what the media is peddling at the moment with people scrambling to get a home?

Mod might move this to Accommodation & Property forum, but my understanding is that demand has dropped off a little, of late. That might explain things.

zl1whqvjs75cdy

Where is the house in Dublin? What have similar houses in the area gone for? How long has it been on the market?

RiseNshine

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

Where is the house in Dublin? What have similar houses in the area gone for? How long has it been on the market?

Terenure. It's priced similar to others in same area. On market since end Aug.

RiseNshine

Saipanne wrote: »

Mod might move this to Accommodation & Property forum, but my understanding is that demand has dropped off a little, of late. That might explain things.

Perhaps but there is a huge under supply of homes in area for sale. The property is priced 40% below peak prices in 2007. It's a fair price for location and house type. Offers are coming in €40k below asking which is way way off the mark. The agent is pushing us to consider which concerns me as they priced my house in first place.

quadrifoglio verde

Link to ad?
Generally lack of interest is due to price being asked and things seem to have quitened down a little bit lately.

Saipanne

RiseNshine wrote: »

Perhaps but there is a huge under supply of homes in area for sale. The property is priced 40% below peak prices in 2007. It's a fair price for location and house type. Offers are coming in €40k below asking which is way way off the mark. The agent is pushing us to consider which concerns me as they priced my house in first place.

Id say you should request that the mod move this thread to the forum I mentioned. They know their stuff there.

Tristram

If you are unhappy with the service your agent is providing perhaps you could change to a different agent.

MarkAnthony

I've been looking for sometime, there seems to be a complete change in market over the last while with the associated drop off in demand for this time of year. No one knows what the market will do over the next few months.

Best of luck with it, but prices have been nuts over the last 12 months.

RiseNshine

Tristram wrote: »

If you are unhappy with the service your agent is providing perhaps you could change to a different agent.

I am considering this as a last resort. I am also considering taking house off the market and buyers will miss an opportunity to buy house at good price because if I go to market next year houses will have increased going by all the pundits. Don't need this stress approaching Xmas. Just bargain hunters out there looking for someone desperate to sell house cheap. Don't think that's gonna happen!

quadrifoglio verde

RiseNshine wrote: »

I am considering this as a last resort. I am also considering taking house off the market and buyers will miss an opportunity to buy house at good price because if I go to market next year houses will have increased going by all the pundits. Don't need this stress approaching Xmas. Just bargain hunters out there looking for someone desperate to sell house cheap. Don't think that's gonna happen!

Its hard to know, new central bank rules from January may cause prices to fall...the pundits could be wrong again you know

MarkAnthony

RiseNshine wrote: »

I am considering this as a last resort. I am also considering taking house off the market and buyers will miss an opportunity to buy house at good price because if I go to market next year houses will have increased going by all the pundits. Don't need this stress approaching Xmas. Just bargain hunters out there looking for someone desperate to sell house cheap. Don't think that's gonna happen!

No everyone is predicting a rise next year. The lending criteria and deposit requirements have been significantly changed which is causing people to be more wary. Cash buys have dried up or at least are biding their time.

Also the stress coming up to Christmas works both ways, and many people looking to make a move feel the same way.

NinjaTruncs

It seems like a bad time of the year. I'm trying to sell an apartment and we're getting about half the interest as was around during the summer. Now I'm not sure if this is due to christmas coming up or that the market has stalled waiting for the new year with the upcoming changes to mortgage approval. Either way we were given the impression it wouldn't be too hard to drum up interest but that is proving to be incorrect.

NinjaTruncs

MarkAnthony wrote: »

No everyone is predicting a rise next year. The lending criteria and deposit requirements have been significantly changed which is causing people to be more wary. Cash buys have dried up or at least are biding their time.

Also the stress coming up to Christmas works both ways, and many people looking to make a move feel the same way.

Do you mean predicting a fall?

RiseNshine

MarkAnthony wrote: »

I've been looking for sometime, there seems to be a complete change in market over the last while with the associated drop off in demand for this time of year. No one knows what the market will do over the next few months.

Best of luck with it, but prices have been nuts over the last 12 months.

Thanks for your reply. Property is still 40% below peak. ESRI says property expected to rise another 10% next year and possibly more in Dublin. Unemployment falling, country finances stabilising and 4.5% growth all point towards higher property prices. Big issue is banks still not lending. Cash buyers made up most sales earlier this year. Missed this window as all that's left out there are people who have mortgage approval but are falling short for 4 beds and are trying to drive prices down with cheeky bids as cash buyers have exited market.

Saipanne

quadrifoglio verde wrote: »

Its hard to know, new central bank rules from January may cause prices to fall...the pundits could be wrong again you know

well if people find it harder to borrow money then you would expect demand to fall

RiseNshine

Ditto...there's definitely a change in activity and the people viewing our property are "tyre kickers" or just sniffing around with little or no interest in purchasing. Even the agent says they have noted the current market trend is a bit lack lustre.

RiseNshine

Central bank can only introduce guidelines. They are not allowed to direct banks in the same way banks don't have to pass on rate reductions when ECB reduces rates. The banks will find a way around lending criteria. At the end if the day that's how banks make revenue. Lending. 2015 will see property prices rise by another 10/15% minimum. So a house priced at 350k now will be close to €400k this time next year. It's a no brainer. Buy now and save yourself €50,000 - that would take someone on average industrial wage 10 years hard saving so cannot understand why people are playing waiting game. They'll have to rent forever if they don't buy now.

zl1whqvjs75cdy

RiseNshine wrote: »

Thanks for your reply. Property is still 40% below peak. ESRI says property expected to rise another 10% next year and possibly more in Dublin. Unemployment falling, country finances stabilising and 4.5% growth all point towards higher property prices. Big issue is banks still not lending. Cash buyers made up most sales earlier this year. Missed this window as all that's left out there are people who have mortgage approval but are falling short for 4 beds and are trying to drive prices down with cheeky bids as cash buyers have exited market.

They won't reach peak prices again. If they do we'll have much bigger problems with the inevitable crash that will follow. Don't hold out for peak prices or you'll never move. I'd also be stunned if house prices rise by 10% next year. I'm not a professional economist or anything by the way just how I see things at the moment. The market is uncertain and will continue to be so until people get a better handle on the new lending restrictions and, on a broader scale, what the ecb are going to do next year.

You are also misinformation about the powers of the central bank. They can essentially do what they like with regards to banking sector regulations and are not beholden to the government in this regard.

Saipanne

RiseNshine wrote: »

Central bank can only introduce guidelines. They are not allowed to direct banks in the same way banks don't have to pass on rate reductions when ECB reduces rates. The banks will find a way around lending criteria. At the end if the day that's how banks make revenue. Lending. 2015 will see property prices rise by another 10/15% minimum. So a house priced at 350k now will be close to €400k this time next year. It's a no brainer. Buy now and save yourself €50,000 - that would take someone on average industrial wage 10 years hard saving so cannot understand why people are playing waiting game. They'll have to rent forever if they don't buy now.

Emm, I work in banking. And yes. The Central Bank can and will enforce these rules.

RiseNshine

Central Bank have only suggested guidelines. No one can save 20% deposit on a basic starter home priced at 350k. The central bank are just flexing muscle early due to stress tests on our banks which by and large passed. The gov have announced a new stimulus to get construction industry moving again so I would be inclined to think property will continue to rise as economy grows. We have fastest growing economy in Europe at 4.5% growth est for 2014.

RiseNshine

disagree. The deposit will fall to 10%. Watch this space. Don't be naive

Atlantic Dawn

RiseNshine wrote: »

disagree. The deposit will fall to 10%. Watch this space. Don't be naive

Or house prices will fall to where 20% deposit is affordable.

RiseNshine

Thanks for reply. Curious why banks don't have to pass on rate reductions when ECB rate falls. Central Bank " apparently" cannot interfere. The banks are independent institutions. When they were tasked with regulation in the past....ahemmmm

zl1whqvjs75cdy

RiseNshine wrote: »

disagree. The deposit will fall to 10%. Watch this space. Don't be naive

Credit availability dictates market price not the other way around. The first 6 months of the new regulations would see prices stay at their current levels but then they would have to fall in line with credit availability.

MarkAnthony

RiseNshine wrote: »

disagree. The deposit will fall to 10%. Watch this space. Don't be naive

Says the person with no vested interest what so ever.

As for a fall - I think what we're more likely to see it houses going for asking or around that. Earlier this year houses where going at bonkers money over asking price. I also think we'll not have the situation where you need to queue outside a place to view it. I really think EAs missed a trick in not charging people to view at the beginning of 2014.

Just calling out that this is not a consumer issue - if you're unhappy with your EA move.

dudara

Moved to Accomodation & Property

dudara

Saipanne

RiseNshine wrote: »

Central Bank have only suggested guidelines. No one can save 20% deposit on a basic starter home priced at 350k. The central bank are just flexing muscle early due to stress tests on our banks which by and large passed. The gov have announced a new stimulus to get construction industry moving again so I would be inclined to think property will continue to rise as economy grows. We have fastest growing economy in Europe at 4.5% growth est for 2014.

Nope. They will be introducing lending rules that banks must adhere to. You have no idea how much scrutiny the CBI places Irish banks under now. And, the European regulator is now in operation, and my experience is that they are even tougher than the new CBI. The "good old days" of lax regulation are gone, and for the better. But these "guidelines" are going to be enforced. Mark my words.

The values they announced are the likely values to be implemented, though the values might change, but I seriously doubt it.

I'm not reading this in newspapers, I know this because it affects my department. My job. My day to day. It is fact.

NinjaTruncs

For tracker mortgages they do need to pass on ECB falls, as will they increase your rate when the ECB rate rises. However Standard Variable Rate is not tied to the ECB rate so the bank can increase or decrease SVR as the like.

Saipanne

RiseNshine wrote: »

Thanks for reply. Curious why banks don't have to pass on rate reductions when ECB rate falls. Central Bank " apparently" cannot interfere. The banks are independent institutions. When they were tasked with regulation in the past....ahemmmm

No. The ecb rate is what banks pay to borrow money. They can charge what they like for it. The ecb doesn't tell banks what to charge.

P. Breathnach

RiseNshine wrote: »

disagree. The deposit will fall to 10%. Watch this space. Don't be naive

If you are right about prices rising so much and so soon, why the worry about not selling yet? Just hang in there for the higher prices.

It's my opinion that you are mistaken. I have had an eye on your market segment for a while. For about a year, up to about August/September, asking prices were generally achieved or exceeded (with some exceptions, of course). More recently, that has not been the story. It's now a struggle to achieve the prices that might have been easily achieved six months ago. I think that the market in Dublin 6/6W has hit its short-term peak, and will perform less well in 2015.

But you won't believe me.

RiseNshine

Prices have risen in Dublin for the 16th consecutive month. Facts and renouned economists who are regular pundits on ireland media say prices will continue to rise albeit at a much more modest rate than we saw in early 2014

Saipanne

Its funny how that "renting is dead money" nonsense is slowly creeping back. Did we not learn anything?

NinjaTruncs

Sounds like 2007 again doesn't it...

MarkAnthony

RiseNshine wrote: »

Prices have risen in Dublin for the 16th consecutive month. Facts and renouned economists who are regular pundits on ireland media say prices will continue to rise albeit at a much more modest rate than we saw in early 2014

What are you not getting about that's the entire point of the new regulations?

MarkAnthony

Saipanne wrote: »

Its funny how that "renting is dead money" nonsense is slowly creeping back. Did we not learn anything?

It is - ideally most people would be in a position to buy their own homes, with only the transient (and presumably according remunerated) work force renting high quality assets from professional landlords.

What is the difference between paying €900 a month on rent or €800 on a mortgage if portability isn't key? Even if it was adopting a similar approach to the Scots would prevent gazumping and make moving a hell of a lot easier.

Sorry bit of a derailment there.

RiseNshine

Demographics. People need housing. Currently there is serious lack of supply. Prices are dictated by supply and demand. The banks aren't lending so this is having negative impact on market. People like me will NOT sell or pull out if the market if prices are artificially impacted or stunted by whomever

MarkAnthony

To be honest your pig headed refusal to listen anyone else on this matter only puts you in the same position - no one has a clue - the Irish property market has been, for many years, a complete mess.

quadrifoglio verde

Saipanne wrote: »

well if people find it harder to borrow money then you would expect demand to fall

Oh agreed, thats why I think prices may fall, but I've seen madder things happen when it comes to property in this country (House in rathfarnham asking similar for a similar house in donnybrook:eek:) No one knows what the market may do.

Op do you have a link to your ad? There might be a reason why you're not getting asking. Also remember asking price is the asking price, not the selling price

MarkAnthony

Not sure the OP giving their address and pics of their house is a good idea if it's then backed up by discussion here - just my 2 cents.

MaceFace

RiseNshine wrote: »

Demographics. People need housing. Currently there is serious lack of supply. Prices are dictated by supply and demand. The banks aren't lending so this is having negative impact on market. People like me will NOT sell or pull out if the market if prices are artificially impacted or stunted by whomever

You're coming out with all these reasons why house prices will continue to rise but lamenting that no one is offering what you consider a fair price for your own home.
Maybe your valuation is what's wrong rather than the rest of the world.
Your house is only worth what someone's willing to pay...

zl1whqvjs75cdy

On the above point that Irish main stream economists predict house rises for next year, they don't exactly have a stellar record on predictions of the Irish housing market. Also you may assume anyone working for the Irish independent is peddling Denis o briens line, which is effect the government line. They have a vested interest in encouraging house price increases. Sorry to derail a bit.

Saipanne

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

On the above point that Irish main stream economists predict house rises for next year, they don't exactly have a stellar record on predictions of the Irish housing market. Also you may assume anyone working for the Irish independent is peddling Denis o briens line, which is effect the government line. They have a vested interest in encouraging house price increases. Sorry to derail a bit.

When these new CBI rules come on stream, demand will fall as a consequence. This will absolutely have an effect on house prices. Its very difficult to predict how much, but the CBI want to stop the next bubble, so if you believe them it should put a halt on any significant increases next year.

Expect rents to rise, though!

hfallada

OP read the section on real estate agents in freakeconomics. It talks about how estate act in their own interest in selling a house or apartment. They will often tell a potential buyer to bid at the lowest level you will sell for( for a quick sell). They also keep a house on the market for a shorter period than if they sell it themselves. As its down to economics. If they have a 1% commission fee and if they hold out for an extra 50k. They will only get 500 themselves. It isnt worth holding out for, considering they will have to keep showing and answering calls,emails etc. about it. Its a lot of work for a small sum of money.

Have you picked the right estate agent for your house? I know when my parents got a valuations for the family home in 2008, they got a valuation of 575k for it. When only 18 months previous houses in the exact condition sold for over twice the price. Even at the lowest part of the property crash the house wasnt only worth 575k. The estate agent clearly was going to suggest my parents sell the house for 575k.

OP maybe consider getting a new estate agent, that is more suited to your house. If you house is period and a high value home. Use an agent that sells high value homes. But if your house is middle of road, use a middle of the road agent. Because a high value agent is not to really care about a middle of the road house, if he to work as hard on it, as a high value house for only half the commission.

RiseNshine

Sorry, but there isn't a bubble. A bubble is caused by massive availability of cheap credit. That isn't case here. It's a supply issue unless I am missing something?

Saipanne

RiseNshine wrote: »

Sorry, but there isn't a bubble. A bubble is caused by massive availability of cheap credit. That isn't case here. It's a supply issue unless I am missing something?

The. Next. Bubble.

kencoo

D6/d6w is a nice area to live. We looked at a few houses in that area and at the moment there is a bit of choice. Some of the houses need alot of work which needs to be considered if buying.No two houses are alike so its not always as straight forward.
As a buyer I get a feel for what is worth the asking price. Some sellers are miles off the mark (personal opinion). The "ready to go" houses seem to be more in demand this time of year.

Personally i would check the Property Price register and see really what they are making. Id also have look at what others sellers are asking and try to compare.
It might also be worth asking an impartial friend what they think of your property. They may see reasons that might put some buyers off- you'd be surprised.

At the weekend an auctioneer mentioned that alot of houses came on the market in September which would also have an affect.

Chev2010

RiseNshine wrote: »

Sorry, but there isn't a bubble. A bubble is caused by massive availability of cheap credit. That isn't case here. It's a supply issue unless I am missing something?

Define a bubble? Why does it need to be driven solely by cheap credit? If there's an increase in prices of 25% then a dip of 25% all without cheap credit, was it a bubble? In my mind it would have been a bubble.

Remember in 2006-7 renowned economists said there wasn't a bubble. The government in charge of running the country said there would be a "soft landing" - then the bubble burst and prices dropped over 50%, they all got it wrong, how can you be so sure they're all right this time?

I personally feel a 25% increase in prices in Dublin that's driven by a lack of supply, incentivised cash buyers and investor CGT exemptions is not sustainable once the cash leaves the market and supply increases.

Fact is, nobody knows what will happen next year, but the market seems to have already cooled a little. Add the new mortgage limits in 2015 and you have to assume most serious cash investors will have been buying this year to ensure they get the CGT exemptions, who is left to push up prices 10+% next year? FTBs will likely need a 20% deposit, so a lot are also now out of the market, or back to more modest 1/2 bed apartments so demand for houses will decrease, bidding wars take multiple bidders and they may not be around next year.

I've been actively bidding on houses for the last year and noticed a change from houses going for 50+k over asking to just making asking prices or a little over, also notice some that aren't reaching the asking.

At this point I've stopped bidding as I think prices will either level out or decline next year.

trobbin

Can't really help the op, but I will say, if you're not happy with the amount being offered and you don't really need to move, just don't sell. But remember, don't be reading the predictions of optimistic economists and thus, valuing your home in 2014 at a predicted 2015 price.

As others said, nobody is certain about future prices, but if I look at the news and read quotes from people or institutes with a vested interest in a booming property market, I would believe that prices where going to increase and maybe never stop increasing. And that frightens the hell out of me. But if I look at the situation logically and consider everything I've learned throughout the boom and bust, well I'm afraid it won't be going up for sellers looking for huge sums.

Figures being released in the news are very misleading. While they say the country is seeing growth and unemployment is down dramatically, it's hardly fixed any problem. Think about it. Most people earn less, far less than they did in the boom. Take the smaller wage that many have, then think about the new bills they have. Gas and electric have risen almost 50% since boom prices, insurance is higher and rising. Property tax. Mortgage interest relief nowhere near what it was. Interest rates are higher (especially that there's no trackers available). Speculators with no cash (wannabe landlords trying to get rich with a ton of mortgages) are completely gone. Water charges to come in. Bin prices are predicted to rise next year. Education prices are increasing. Lately there has been a big hike in food prices. Next year people will be stretched worse than before.

As for unemployment being down, according to our fabulous government. As I said certain sectors. Fact is, they've been massaging the figures. Many that where unemployed have left the country, still happens but you won't see it on the news. Thousands of the people off the unemployed list are currently in back to education, basically still unemployed, or at least still receiving the benefit. Others are on back to enterprise, again still receiving the benefit. Yet both groups are no longer unemployed according to our government. The massive growths that they've been talking about hasn't seen a massive rise in revenue intake, with it still way to low to run the country.

There's lots of factors that need to be taken into account. Some people in Ireland thinks everything revolves around house prices, in fact house prices revolve around other factors. Not many people don't realise that many cash buyers which started the surge we seen late 2013 early 2014 where actually foreign investors. Mainly American hedge funds buying up apartment blocks, as a security against a dollar collapse. They are hedging there bets in different currencies. As money follows money, many Irish cash buyers entered the market, but for different reasons. That's why rents have risen. Now it's not sustainable for cash buyers to continue to buy at the current prices, as rents won't give them there desired return on investment.

The only factor that is remotely positive for sellers, is that there's a shortage of houses. But people will only stretch themselves so far. With new regulators from Europe now involved, we won't see a continued surge. There will also be many more houses built in the coming years. Interest rates are certainly going to rise, and maybe as early as next year.

I think it's more likely that property will fall than rise.

BookBook

To me things are definitely a lot quieter in Dublin over the last few weeks. Not sure if it is the time of year or if prices have gone too high.

For the first time in 18 months I have estate agents ringing me with a list of properties for sale. Another EA told me things are very quiet lately. I've seen a few price drops but i have also seen some properties being snapped up.

I have heard that there maybe panic over the CGT for investors and the 20% deposit for buyers but I personally haven't seen that yet.

TheDriver

This thread and the OP have given me the best laughs in a long time, welcome back 2005! I am seeing things around being "snapped" up at moment because there is panic with people who have 10% saved and need to use their approval. This will fall flat in January when the 20% WILL come in and activity plummets. Vendors need to realise that a house isn't guaranteed to sell...........