Desailly or McGrath?

marbless

Imagine you're picking a team and have to select either Marcel Desailly (at his peak) or Paul McGrath (in his prime) as your utility defender, i.e. capable of playing at centre-back or as midfield anchor.

Which one would you go for?

SantryRed

Paul McShane.

Agent Coulson

Gary Breen!

Billy86

McGrath is one of the best CBs of his time. Desailly is one of the greatest CBs of all time

nullzero

Billy86 wrote: »

McGrath is one of the best CBs of his time. Desailly is one of the greatest CBs of all time

Is just a case of personal(and let's face it) nationalistic preference.

Billy86

nullzero wrote: »

Is just a case of personal(and let's face it) nationalistic preference.

Really more so nationalistic, nothing against McGrath who was brilliant and like I said one of the best around in arguably the strongest era of CBs the game has ever seen, but Desailly was a key member of Milan great 93/94 team and Marseilles quality team the year before both of whom won the CL, as well as the French team that was so dominant around the turn of the century.

Put this poll in any non Irish forum and Desailly wins in a landslide.

Talib Fiasco

Desailly and it isn't even close.

Aenaes

I'd rather Italians.

RedemptionZ

Desailly is one of the best CBs to play the game, Mcgrath is as has been said one of the best Irish players to play the game, and indeed during his time was one of the best in his position, but had nowhere near the same impact Desailly did on football.

Amirani

Definitely Desailly.

artanevilla

McGrath was unbelievable in his prime.

Muff_Daddy

Desailly was the better player, but it's a lot closer than the football snobs make it out.

Talib Fiasco

Muff_Daddy wrote: »

Desailly was the better player, but it's a lot closer than the football snobs make it out.

Swap their nationalities and it really isn't that close at all.

Billy86

Talib Fiasco wrote: »

Swap their nationalities and it really isn't that close at all.

Exactly. It's not a slight on McGrath at all, it's just that when it comes to 'enforcer' type CBs Desailly probably has an argument as the best ever (and was excellent in possession and an intelligent player also) - he was absolutely out of this world. And, while its a sore spot to mention, it does have to be said that he was a model pro throughout his career which allowed him to get to and stay at his best for a very long time, which is surely the biggest knock against McGrath's career.

Amirani

Muff_Daddy wrote: »

Desailly was the better player, but it's a lot closer than the football snobs make it out.

McGrath won a single FA Cup and 2 league cups.

Desailly won multiple Champions Leagues, domestic leagues and domestic cups in different countries. I'll ignore Desailly's international honours because it's probably not a fair comparison.

Both were excellent players, and medals aren't the only barometer of success, but Desailly won much more and played for better teams.

COYVB

Desaille had a better, more consistent career, but mcgrath , in my opinion, will always have the honor of the single greatest defensive performance the world has ever seen or will likely ever see. And he was half paralyzed at the time

Fudge You

COYVB wrote: »

Desaille had a better, more consistent career, but mcgrath , in my opinion, will always have the honor of the single greatest defensive performance the IRELAND has ever seen or will likely ever see. And he was half paralyzed at the time

I think you meant to say Ireland instead of world.

If it was any other nation, then irish people would say something like, "good win for the underdog against Italy, and youre man at the back played well"...

Here on the soccer forum, many of us give out about how Bskyb talk about english players. Us irish do the exact same.

COYVB

Fudge You wrote: »

I think you meant to say Ireland instead of world.

If it was any other nation, then irish people would say something like, "good win for the underdog against Italy, and youre man at the back played well"...

Here on the soccer forum, many of us give out about how Bskyb talk about english players. Us irish do the exact same.

No I couldn't give a toss about Ireland, I don't follow international football, and have been involved in several threads outlining that fact and giving my reasons. McGrath's performance against Italy was easily the single greatest 90 minutes of defending I have ever seen, on any pitch, for any team, at any level, and nothing else comes close. It's like the guy was given the script the day before and was told exactly where to stand at every single second of the game

Ulysses Gaze

Very close call between the two, in terms of overall ability. Desailly obviously won a lot more in his career at Marseille and Milan and playing for a great French team.

McGrath never fulfilled his potential at club level. He did well at Villa but should have been playing for a bigger club.

I would love to have seen him play in Serie A.

Apparently, he was linked with Napoli at the time Maradona was there.

Yes, I would have gone abroad and I got an enquiry from Napoli when Maradona played for them and they were Italy’s best team in the late ’80s. I was holidaying near Naples on the coast in Sorrento when a delegation of Napoli officials came to see me at my hotel. I was amazed that they knew I was there. We had a big chat, but nothing came of it. Imagine if that had come off... I was very tempted, but maybe with my situation it was best I didn’t go. There wasn’t really a drinking culture in Italian football, so maybe I would have started one.

PhlegmyMoses

Desaiily was great for Milan but he moved to a Chelsea side that were decent but not great at the relatively young age of 29. He declined from the heights of his time at Milan and was very good for Chelsea but was no longer at world class levels.

I'll go for Desailly fairly comfortably but McGrath was excellent as well.

Ulysses Gaze

Fudge You wrote: »

I think you meant to say Ireland instead of world.

If it was any other nation, then irish people would say something like, "good win for the underdog against Italy, and youre man at the back played well"...

Here on the soccer forum, many of us give out about how Bskyb talk about english players. Us irish do the exact same.

He marked Roberto Baggio out of the game. The same Baggio who was rated the best player in the world. In the same game, he also kept Beppe Signori quiet. Signori who was one of the deadliest strikers in European football at the time.

It was a remarkable performance by McGrath and one of the single greatest defensive performances I have seen.

Fudge You

COYVB wrote: »

No I couldn't give a toss about Ireland, I don't follow international football, and have been involved in several threads outlining that fact and giving my reasons. McGrath's performance against Italy was easily the single greatest 90 minutes of defending I have ever seen, on any pitch, for any team, at any level, and nothing else comes close. It's like the guy was given the script the day before and was told exactly where to stand at every single second of the game

Haha, good one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gtZnyCDljE

Have a watch of the full game there. Enjoy. The panel are on form too. Great watching...

I watched the full match recently myself, very enjoyable game. And of course McGrath was excellent that day and obviously man of the match but you swear Mcgrath was the only player playing for Ireland. Keane Bonner, Babb, Phelan, all put in top defensive performances.

But reading that comment and the way you just came all over your keyboard is quite funny, and youve gone way over board

Fudge You

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

He marked Roberto Baggio out of the game. The same Baggio who was rated the best player in the world. In the same game, he also kept Beppe Signori quiet. Signori who was one of the deadliest strikers in European football at the time.

It was a remarkable performance by McGrath and one of the single greatest defensive performances I have seen.

Again.
You make good points, but I feel you are making more of it than it was.

Do you make the same judgment when Inter kept out Barca in the champions league in 2010? When barca were the best team of all time. Can you even name the defenders who were playing and the man of the match.

And can you say the same about Switzerland v spain in the 2010 world cup. Spain at the time were the best team on earth who went on to win the world cup. Name the man of the match, name me the defender who was class that day.

You cant name the defenders (without looking them up) unless you are a Inter or swiss fan.

We are Irish, therefore we love irish heros.

syngindub

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

Very close call between the two, in terms of overall ability. Desailly obviously won a lot more in his career at Marseille and Milan and playing for a great French team.

McGrath never fulfilled his potential at club level. He did well at Villa but should have been playing for a bigger club.

I would love to have seen him play in Serie A.

Apparently, he was linked with Napoli at the time Maradona was there.

He played for Man Utd FFS !! how bigger can you go?

COYVB

syngindub wrote: »

He played for Man Utd FFS !! how bigger can you go?

At the time he played for United? A lot bigger.

leeroybrown

syngindub wrote: »

He played for Man Utd FFS !! how bigger can you go?

This was 82-89 under Atkinson and the early reign of Fergie while he was still rebuilding the team. Hardly a high point by United's standards. They weren't even the "biggest" team in England at the time before you even include other major leagues.

Cienciano

Why are people comparing trophy cabinets? Its completely pointless

Bounty Hunter

Better Player or better Career, which are people talking about because better player I would say it would be very harsh on McGrath not to recognise the mans talent. On form (vs Italy the prime example) nobody was better than him. If not for his issues both (his knees, alcohol etc) he could have been one of the best in more peoples eyes than just those with rose tinted glasses or those who had to play against the man.

wonderboysam

McGrath is the best CB I've seen

Diego Simeone

Diego Simeone wrote: »

McGrath won a single FA Cup and 2 league cups.

Desailly won multiple Champions Leagues, domestic leagues and domestic cups in different countries. I'll ignore Desailly's international honours because it's probably not a fair comparison.

Both were excellent players, and medals aren't the only barometer of success, but Desailly won much more and played for better teams.

i agree desailly is the better player by quite a bit although i dont think its as outlandish a question as some people are saying but the trophy cabinet arguments is silly

desailly played with baresi,maldini,costacurta, van bastion and that was just on one of his teams a large reason behind mcgrath not playing on those teams was his alcohol problems. the club honours argument is just as silly as the international honours one

Macavity.

Desailly, without a doubt. No contest.

flas

I would say mcgrath was the best these islands has produced,in a wider european net he is up there but not the best, I think people really don't appriciate just how good some of the defenders around the 80's and 90's actually were, with maldini,desailly, stam, thuram, barassi, absolute giants of the game! Their understanding of the game and sheer power and impact they had on their respective teams is completely under rated!

RedemptionZ

Ethan Immense Litter wrote: »

a large reason behind mcgrath not playing on those teams was his alcohol problems. the club honours argument is just as silly as the international honours one

Can't live on what if's though. Fact is McGrath, despite being a very high quality player threw away some of his potential with drinking and then also had some injury problems. It's a bit like when people say Ronaldinho could've been the best player ever. Maybe he could've been but he wasn't and isn't.

thebaz

RedemptionZ wrote: »

Can't live on what if's though. Fact is McGrath, despite being a very high quality player threw away some of his potential with drinking and then also had some injury problems. It's a bit like when people say Ronaldinho could've been the best player ever. Maybe he could've been but he wasn't and isn't.

agree can't live on what ifs .
Fact- Paul McGrath was the greatest Irish international EVER .
Starring role in 2 World cups, and key figure in our greatest performance at a major championship Euros '88.

Both were top top players , nothing between them - McGrath was a legend , overcoming many obstacles that would have floored lesser men , and certainly was more than just a high quality player.

gosplan

The thing is though, the drinking doesn't matter as the OP said one game in their prime.

So you're going on the performance of McGrath vrs Italy. I think a key fact here is no-one on an Irish forum knows what Desailly's best game was.

I'd say it was pretty ****ing awesome though.

Also the Jack formation, like Trap flattered centre backs cause they just get to stay really deep. Remember how good Dunne looked against Russia when he just had to block and head clear? Get him isolated or ask him to bring the ball out and it's different.

Also I'm pretty sure the Korean's are still banging on about some defender that kept Totti and Del Piero quiet.

anncoates

Never see the point of these 'best of' contests.

Both were super CBs but it's pointless trying to do these wanky forensic, retrospective investigations.

If Paul - brought up in the Irish system - had played with the stellar Milan teams or with France or if Marcel - brought up in the French system - was with Ireland and Villa or 80s United.

There's so many variables at play across so many clubs and eras of football.

Why not just enjoy both players - I saw both in their prime - instead of the modern internet trend for teenage, barstoool, wanky list fests?

Billy86

flas wrote: »

I would say mcgrath was the best these islands has produced,in a wider european net he is up there but not the best, I think people really don't appriciate just how good some of the defenders around the 80's and 90's actually were, with maldini,desailly, stam, thuram, barassi, absolute giants of the game! Their understanding of the game and sheer power and impact they had on their respective teams is completely under rated!

Don't forget Passarella, Ruggeri, Scirea, Kohler and of course Sammer (brief peak but for that very short time he was aerguably the best CB since Beckenbauer until injuries did him in shortly after winning the Ballon d'Or). Also Koeman who was an excellent sweeper and who scored a head-scratching 254 career goals!

Billy86

gosplan wrote: »

Also I'm pretty sure the Korean's are still banging on about some defender that kept Totti and Del Piero quiet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Myung-bo

Funny enough, he was also kicking on at 33 years old that tournament and is still their most ever capped player. He even made the team of the tournament in that World Cup.

gimli2112

Remember watching Liverpool v Villa at Anfield and the whole ground singing his name for about 30 minutes.
Don't remember that for Desailly

keeponhurling

I wonder who Ron Atkinson would say

super_furry

McGrath without the drink and discipline problems, Desailly in reality.

thebaz

super_furry wrote: »

McGrath without the drink and discipline problems, Desailly in reality.

what discipline problem ?

given the overall drink problem in Ireland , find the lack of sympathy for McGrath situation here a little puzzling. Class class player - yeah looking through green tinted specs, but my favourite player ever - and then some

keeponhurling

thebaz wrote: »

what discipline problem ?

given the overall drink problem in Ireland , find the lack of sympathy for McGrath situation here a little puzzling. Class class player - yeah looking through green tinted specs, but my favourite player ever - and then some

sympathy isn't relevant, question is who is the best player

RainMaker

McGrath made Phil Babb and Shawn Teale look like great players when they played alongside him.

Desailly at AC Milan was surrounded by world class players...

Not saying that proves anything, just thought it was worth pointing out

Pro. F

Anybody writing strong opinions on this topic needs to post up their age. If you were in your teens, or younger, when these two were at their peak (as I was) then your opinion is not reliable. Even if you were old enough to understand what was going on, you're still relying on memories from twenty years ago.

Better off re-watching some of their famous games (they'll be on youtube) before making our minds up I would think.

LuckyLloyd

Fudge You wrote: »

Again.
You make good points, but I feel you are making more of it than it was.

Do you make the same judgment when Inter kept out Barca in the champions league in 2010? When barca were the best team of all time. Can you even name the defenders who were playing and the man of the match.

And can you say the same about Switzerland v spain in the 2010 world cup. Spain at the time were the best team on earth who went on to win the world cup. Name the man of the match, name me the defender who was class that day.

You cant name the defenders (without looking them up) unless you are a Inter or swiss fan.

We are Irish, therefore we love irish heros.

Lucio was immense that night, ably aided by Samuel / Zanetti / Maicon. Lucio was also unreal in the home leg against Chelsea in the earlier rounds. It was his tournament.

I think McGrath's performance was genuinely brilliant. And to say people wouldn't pick up on it if they weren't from Ireland rings hollow. The South Korean captain was universally recognised for his brilliant tournament in 2002. On the world stage people are paying attention.

Keane's qualifying performances against Holland and Portugal in 2001 probably went unnoticed alright.

TheCitizen

McGrath's performance v Italy in USA '94 would've eclipsed anything Desailly ever produced as regards an individual contribution for his team in any game.

Desailly had a better more productive career, but McGrath - when both were at their peak and at their very best - was the better footballer.

This opinion is evidenced by "that" performance in Giants Stadium.

kfallon

TheCitizen wrote: »

McGrath's performance v Italy in USA '94 would've eclipsed anything Desailly ever produced as regards an individual contribution for his team in any game.

Desailly was fantastic in the European Cup final for Milan when they hammered Barca 4-0, the team everyone thought only had to turn up to win!

Desailly played in midfield that night!

TheCitizen

kfallon wrote: »

Desailly was fantastic in the European Cup final for Milan when they hammered Barca 4-0, the team everyone thought only had to turn up to win!

Desailly played in midfield that night!

I'm sure he was, but not as good as McGrath v Italy I'd wager.

LuckyLloyd

Also Desailly was an aristocrat of the game for a number of years. He would get the nod here as much as I loved McGrath.

kfallon

TheCitizen wrote: »

I'm sure he was, but not as good as McGrath v Italy I'd wager.

Desailly was a beast that night!

Tbh both were great players, more special memories with McGrath given he's Irish but Desailly was an absolute tank of a player!