Water protest discussion and demos

inisboffin

Big enough turnout for the march/protest today. A notable difference in the demographic (to me anyway) - much broader it seems.
Pics on FB on the GA page

Tugboats

99% of the marchers will pay. Hope this helps

billy100

I think the water charges are necessary. The system is ancient and there is something like 50% leather lost through leaks, I think this massive protest should have bee done 3 years ago when the property tax came in. Water we need and need to protect it and look after it.

inisboffin

billy100 wrote: »

I think the water charges are necessary. The system is ancient and there is something like 50% leather lost through leaks, I think this massive protest should have bee done 3 years ago when the property tax came in. Water we need and need to protect it and look after it.

Many (I can't speak for everyone unlike the poster who claimed they can ) on the march agree that of course the infrastructure needs to be supported financially (many will argue they have been paying for it already), and people be aware of how much a good water system costs. It is the current model and its lack of transparency that has tipped the scale and prompted many of the protests. The sheer confusion around who will pay what, for how long, the back stepping of the government, and the dithering have all made much of the Irish Public lose confidence (if they ever had any) in Irish Water.

renegademaster

the people have had enough, simple, they've had enough of irish water and lots more, this is just the straw that broke the camels back and it's only the start of it, 5km of a march today, up to 10,000 marching in the pi$$ing rain, taking over topaz bohermore for 10 minutes, converging in the Square afterwards, roll on the next Dublin protests

snubbleste

Was it not just a big rain dance?

ben.schlomo

renegademaster wrote: »

the people have had enough, simple, they've had enough of irish water and lots more, this is just the straw that broke the camels back and it's only the start of it, 5km of a march today, up to 10,000 marching in the pi$$ing rain, taking over topaz bohermore for 10 minutes, converging in the Square afterwards, roll on the next Dublin protests

2-3000 according to all local media sources, more massaging of figures again.

ben.schlomo

inisboffin wrote: »

Figures seem to be edited on all sides. If I wasn't present, I try to read a bunch of different sources to get an overall picture.
I would have said closer to 5K perhapse even 6K today, but I find it hard to tell in the narrower streets as the crowd stretches a good bit

GA, Independent, Tribune and RTE suggested 2-3000.

inisboffin

ben.schlomo wrote: »

GA, Independent, Tribune and RTE suggested 2-3000.

Apologies, my bad. I was doing 3 things online at the same time:rolleyes: I just reread my own post. I meant to say 3-4K (Still higher than reported). Again this was just my take on it.

joeKel73

Annoyed me how this was billed as a "Protest Rally against the Water Charges & Privatisation" - confusing the mater by tagging privatisation onto the end. Irish Water is a public utility, looking at some signs it seems many people don't get that.

renegademaster

Remember remember the 5th of November, lets show Denis O Brien we're going to take down all his business interests until he disbands Irish Water and return the money he owes us!!

Fresh from todays successful protest, the biggest in a very long time in Gaillimh, we should strike while the iron's hot and put them under more pressure asap.

People are asked to gather from 12.00pm to 06.05pm. Lots of us live near a topaz and could drop down for an hour or 2 to show support. The 3 stations in know that are company owned are College Rd, Bohermore and Newcastle. I'm not sure about the westside Those driving could park their cars on the forecourts and join the picket line, we've got shelter from the rain if we need it and bottomless coffee on Denis

https://www.facebook.com/events/1493991254196540/?ref_dashboard_filter=upcoming

Storm 10

renegademaster wrote: »

Remember remember the 5th of November, lets show Denis O Brien we're going to take down all his business interests until he disbands Irish Water and return the money he owes us!!

Fresh from todays successful protest, the biggest in a very long time in Gaillimh, we should strike while the iron's hot and put them under more pressure asap.

People are asked to gather from 12.00pm to 06.05pm. Lots of us live near a topaz and could drop down for an hour or 2 to show support. The 3 stations in know that are company owned are College Rd, Bohermore and Newcastle. I'm not sure about the westside Those driving could park their cars on the forecourts and join the picket line, we've got shelter from the rain if we need it and bottomless coffee on Denis

https://www.facebook.com/events/1493991254196540/?ref_dashboard_filter=upcoming

So shut them down and put people out of a job what rubbish

dan hibiki

Storm 10 wrote: »

So shut them down and put people out of a job what rubbish

plus, their coffee is too nice.

renegademaster

Storm 10 wrote: »

So shut them down and put people out of a job what rubbish

because people are fired everywhere there's a 6 hour protest going on? cop yourself on

dan hibiki

renegademaster wrote: »

because people are fired everywhere there's a 6 hour protest going on? cop yourself on

ehhhh...your thread is titled Shut Down Galways Topaz Stations. Should we also picket the FAI and start burning our Celtic Jerseys? This is a man with his fingers in many pies that we're talking about, so lets try to keep any protesting focused on the issue in hand.

DVDM93

dan hibiki wrote: »

plus, their coffee is too nice.

Parcel Motel too.

renegademaster

dan hibiki wrote: »

ehhhh...your thread is titled Shut Down Galways Topaz Stations. Should we also picket the FAI and start burning our Celtic Jerseys? This is a man with his fingers in many pies that we're talking about, so lets try to keep any protesting focused on the issue in hand.

it does and that's exactly the message we want to get across the Denis that of he keeps us his IW nonsense the people are going to hit him where it hurts. this is a temporary protest, a few hours to get a point across but who knows what's ahead

The Hill Billy

What has Denis O'Brien got to do with Irish Water? Afaik, he owns a company that supplies a service to IW. Nothing more. Are you going to take action against the companies that supply them with coffee, printer toner, PR services etc?

Water charges are necessary if the country wants to be able to be self sustainable.

Afaik, the country still needs ~ 10-12 Billion every year from borrowings to actually run the country.

If water charges don't come in then the taxpayers (as usual) probably have to foot the bill with extra income tax, and then the people who pay next to no tax get off paying nothing.

Nobody likes paying any taxation but how else will the hole be plugged?

Everyone should have to contribute something imo. I personally know two guys who are huge protesters of any water/property charge being introduced, and yet they haven't worked a day in 6/7 years through choice. It's people like that that irk me. If you are unable to work for medical reasons etc fair enough, but anyone choosing the social welfare schemes should have their payments slashed heavily.

The country is too generous to leeches

?Cee?view

renegademaster wrote: »

... lets show Denis O Brien we're going to take down all his business interests until he disbands Irish Water and return the money he owes us!!

It's that sort of incoherent nonsensical rambling that does the anti-water charge movement such a disservice. Who with an ounce of sense would want to be associated with such tripe? It's a pity that there wasn't some courageous intelligent leadership for this movement.

Water is a precious national resource. What Denis O'Brien has to do with it in any real sense is anyone's guess, probably best suited to tin foil hat wearing loons.

joeKel73

Must be nice to have 6hrs free to hang around drinking coffee on a Wednesday afternoon.

Mrs OBumble

renegademaster wrote: »

the people have had enough, simple, they've had enough of irish water and lots more, this is just the straw that broke the camels back and it's only the start of it, 5km of a march today, up to 10,000 marching in the pi$$ing rain, taking over topaz bohermore for 10 minutes, converging in the Square afterwards, roll on the next Dublin protests

Funny, but I had no difficulty walking down Shop St while the marchers were walking up.

And by 3pm this is all was left in the Square.

dan hibiki

renegademaster wrote: »

it does and that's exactly the message we want to get across the Denis that of he keeps us his IW nonsense the people are going to hit him where it hurts. this is a temporary protest, a few hours to get a point across but who knows what's ahead

If you are going to protest at Topaz, be sure to have a coffee while you're there, and maybe a cup of cop-on. You're just looking for an excuse to cause disruption and hardship to peoples day. I'm all for being pro-active in defending a cause that you believe in, but in a sensible and adult manner.

Protesting at Topaz? Thats just embarressing tbh.

Who's bright idea was that?

inisboffin

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Funny, but I had no difficulty walking down Shop St while the marchers were walking up.

And by 3pm this is all was left in the Square.

I think it depended on timing. There were actually two separate groups marching.

Here is a pic from Spanish Arch meeting up (via GA page).

ben.schlomo

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Funny, but I had no difficulty walking down Shop St while the marchers were walking up.

And by 3pm this is all was left in the Square.

Go away with your truth and actual photographic evidence will you, you cant make conspiracies out of that.;)

Iwannahurl

I didn't see the Galway march at first hand, though I did see RTE's coverage of the nation-wide protests on the news.

Right2Water is a sizeable movement, so I suspect it will have a political impact.

I am in favour of economic incentives to reduce wastage of treated water, so I sincerely hope the government will not cave in and respond in a knee-jerk manner. Decades of populist politics has made a mess of this country, imo.

Water metering is justified, in my opinion, but I would agree that the Uisce Eireann quango is a disaster. The latest news that will undoubtedly inflame public anger is the revelation about pay increases: http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/1102/656367-irish-water/

Privatisation should also be prevented at all costs.

Having said that, I think many of the protesters who featured on RTE's coverage were talking utter nonsense. The heavy rain during the marches only served to reinforce some of them in their belief that the water coming into their homes simply falls from the sky in abundance and therefore should be free. It seems to have escaped their notice that (a) there is nothing to prevent them collecting free rainwater if they want, and (b) what they are in fact using in their homes is treated water which requires public infrastructure to collect and distribute.

A few weeks ago there was another protester on Prime Time who tried to equate the public water supply with the air we breathe. That's just delusional, in my view.

EDIT I just happened to see this Boards thread, which might be of interest: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057319177


.

Mrs OBumble

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Privatisation should also be prevented at all costs.

I agree with every sentence, except that one.

Whenever anyone tells me how bad privatised water is, I ask them whether we should also nationalise the food industry. Food is, after, equally necessary for human survival. And it's inappropriate use is leading to world-wide deaths by the million, as so many people have either too little or too much.

These conversations never last for long

inisboffin

If you said 'should we nationalise the beet industry' then it might be a more comparable conversation

Wait...don't mention the beet...

Aiel

My wife and I marched yesterday. The timing of the above photo was very misleading for crowd size during the event. Can someone put up a photo of the March when it went up Dominick Street and across Bridge Street please, that will give a more accurate assessment of the peak of the crowd numbers. I was at Eamonn Deacy Park the night before watching Galway Utd get promoted, it said there was 2,800 at that event and judging by that crowd i can honestly tell you there was a lot more at the protest march then 3,000.
Anyway, what annoyed me about the March was going up to Topaz at Cemetary Cross to protest up there,i didn't realise the March was going up that far. Why did it go there??I asked 2 or 3 people around me and they didn't know. I had thought it was a Shell to Sea protest or something and I was annoyed because I was marching against additional charges for Water, not at Topaz.
It was good to see kids at the protest aswell. When I was young there was no protests even though there probably should have been. Its good to see parents bringing their kids to it and so when they are older protesting at something wont be so alien an idea to them.

inisboffin

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Privatisation should also be prevented at all costs.

Having said that, I think many of the protesters who featured on RTE's coverage were talking utter nonsense. The heavy rain during the marches only served to reinforce some of them in their belief that the water coming into their homes simply falls from the sky in abundance and therefore should be free. It seems to have escaped their notice that (a) there is nothing to prevent them collecting free rainwater if they want, and (b) what they are in fact using in their homes is treated water which requires public infrastructure to collect and distribute.

A few weeks ago there was another protester on Prime Time who tried to equate the public water supply with the air we breathe. That's just delusional, in my view.

EDIT I just happened to see this Boards thread, which might be of interest: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057319177


.

RTE has a trend alright, of putting certain people in front of the camera instead of others. Not to be all conspiracy theory nut or anything, but it does make me go "hmm" at times. We all know how television sound bytes are all in the hands of the editor/slant.

As per your comment about rainwater and collection, well isn't that starting to become an issue in the US? It's not one here (yet) though.

renegademaster

J o e wrote: »

Must be nice to have 6hrs free to hang around drinking coffee on a Wednesday afternoon.

if you read the agenda you'd see it's asking people to come down if they have an hour or 2 to spare

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Funny, but I had no difficulty walking down Shop St while the marchers were walking up.

And by 3pm this is all was left in the Square.

well you obviously didn't even go down shop st when the main march was passing through because those who marched were there and know how much of the street we took up, if it was difficult for the march to progress up shop st that means it was just as difficult for pedestrians to move about. +1 for your timing of the photo though

inisboffin wrote: »

I think it depended on timing. There were actually two separate groups marching.

Here is a pic from Spanish Arch meeting up (via GA page).

spot on!!

Aiel wrote: »

My wife and I marched yesterday. The timing of the above photo was very misleading for crowd size during the event. Can someone put up a photo of the March when it went up Dominick Street and across Bridge Street please, that will give a more accurate assessment of the peak of the crowd numbers. I was at Eamonn Deacy Park the night before watching Galway Utd get promoted, it said there was 2,800 at that event and judging by that crowd i can honestly tell you there was a lot more at the protest march then 3,000.
Anyway, what annoyed me about the March was going up to Topaz at Cemetary Cross to protest up there,i didn't realise the March was going up that far. Why did it go there??I asked 2 or 3 people around me and they didn't know. I had thought it was a Shell to Sea protest or something and I was annoyed because I was marching against additional charges for Water, not at Topaz.
It was good to see kids at the protest aswell. When I was young there was no protests even though there probably should have been. Its good to see parents bringing their kids to it and so when they are older protesting at something wont be so alien an idea to them.

good to have you and your wife on board,

the topaz twist is definately aimed at it's owner ; ie denis o brien

Creative Juices

I was at the march yesterday and I thought the crowds were very impressive. I didn't expect half that crowd. From all walks of society too. The thing that pissed me off was the strong Sinn Fein element. I am so glad I marched though, I have been letting myself down by complaining from my couch for years but this time I got off my arse and did something about it.

Creative Juices

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Funny, but I had no difficulty walking down Shop St while the marchers were walking up.

And by 3pm this is all was left in the Square.

Out of curiousity, why did you walk down Shop Street and then back up Shop Street to Eyre Sq and take pictures afterwards?

Mrs OBumble

Creative Juices wrote: »

Out of curiousity, why did you walk down Shop Street and then back up Shop Street to Eyre Sq and take pictures afterwards?

Odd thing to ask: I'd been out doing some voluntary work in the morning, was going back to my home to drop off the gear from that and to pick up my gym gear and headed out to the gym.

(I live near the Docks area.)

I took a pic 'cos I have a small project to take interesting snaps of Galway when I see them, and an conscious of taking some every weekend.

Tugboats

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Odd thing to ask: I'd been out doing some voluntary work in the morning, was going back to my home to drop off the gear from that and to pick up my gym gear and headed out to the gym.

(I live near the Docks area.)

I took a pic 'cos I have a small project to take interesting snaps of Galway when I see them, and an conscious of taking some every weekend.

Mrs OBumble does voluntary work

Iwannahurl

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I agree with every sentence, except that one.

Whenever anyone tells me how bad privatised water is, I ask them whether we should also nationalise the food industry. Food is, after, equally necessary for human survival. And it's inappropriate use is leading to world-wide deaths by the million, as so many people have either too little or too much.

These conversations never last for long

Interesting analogy.

I'm not arguing against privatisation because water is necessary for human survival. I'm against it because I believe public services should not be taken over by corporations for private gain.

Maggie Thatcher's ideological assault on rail transport in the UK is an example of the damage that can be done. Corporations are not motivated by the public good but by the pursuit of profit, often regardless of social or environmental consequences.

Another prominent protester in Galway said that "water belongs to everybody and nobody". That was intended as an argument against metering, but in fact it's an example of the tragedy of the (unregulated) commons: http://tragedy.sdsu.edu/

There might be a role for limited privatisation but ultimately the water supply has to be strictly regulated, and that means state, aka democratic, control.

Mrs OBumble

Iwannahurl wrote: »

water supply has to be strictly regulated, and that means state, aka democratic, control.

Ahh, all business operations in Ireland are subject to state control. There are all sorts of regulations on them. (Have you tried selling food here lately?)

And I notice how well state-operated water systems have worked. Not.

joeKel73

Iwannahurl wrote: »

I'm not arguing against privatisation because water is necessary for human survival. I'm against it because I believe public services should not be taken over by corporations for private gain.

Irrelevant anyway, Irish Water is a public utility.

I'd agree with having a referrendum to make it a requirement to have a referendum in order to privatise Irish water, it would silence some of the scaremongers.

Iwannahurl

Proper regulation -- of public bodies as well as private corporations -- is essential.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/patrick-neary-tees-off-as-banking-probe-finalised-30246199.html

It's how a proper republic is supposed to function.

WallyGUFC

Protesting at Topaz. LoL. Professional protesting still alive and well in Galway it seems.

Zzippy

WallyGUFC wrote: »

Protesting at Topaz. LoL. Professional protesting still alive and well in Galway it seems.

Whether you believe the protesters were right or wrong in their motivation, it's great to see people passionate enough about something to get off their ass and protest about it. If our society didn't have people who cared enough to march on these issues we'd be a poorer society indeed. I wasn't there on Saturday but from the news reports it seems a broad section of society was there, including families, working people, unemployed people, etc. Belittling protest by insinuating they are "professional protestors" says a lot more about you than it does about them.

joeKel73

Zzippy wrote: »

If our society didn't have people who cared enough to march on these issues we'd be a poorer society indeed.

I cared enough about the issue to not march in opposition to it...

renegademaster

WallyGUFC wrote: »

Protesting at Topaz. LoL. Professional protesting still alive and well in Galway it seems.

Zzippy wrote: »

Whether you believe the protesters were right or wrong in their motivation, it's great to see people passionate enough about something to get off their ass and protest about it. If our society didn't have people who cared enough to march on these issues we'd be a poorer society indeed. I wasn't there on Saturday but from the news reports it seems a broad section of society was there, including families, working people, unemployed people, etc. Belittling protest by insinuating they are "professional protestors" says a lot more about you than it does about them.

the date has been changed to nov 15th to tie in with a new nationwide protest at topaz stations

WallyGUFC

Zzippy wrote: »

Whether you believe the protesters were right or wrong in their motivation, it's great to see people passionate enough about something to get off their ass and protest about it. If our society didn't have people who cared enough to march on these issues we'd be a poorer society indeed. I wasn't there on Saturday but from the news reports it seems a broad section of society was there, including families, working people, unemployed people, etc. Belittling protest by insinuating they are "professional protestors" says a lot more about you than it does about them.

I agree that people should be allowed protest, fair play to them. I'd wonder why they're protesting now, when so many meters are installed, as opposed to when the water charges were initially announced. And I'd also wonder what alternatives they propose to Irish Water, to plug the gap in the budget deficit.

I think protesting outside a legitimate business (Topaz) because of a perceived link between this business and Irish Water is a farce and says quite a lot about some of the protestors.

Maybe my initial comment was a bit strong but it's well known that there's a cohort of people in Galway who will protest about anything and everything. For a different conversation, perhaps.

renegademaster

WallyGUFC wrote: »

Maybe my initial comment was a bit strong but it's well known that there's a cohort of people in Galway who will protest about anything and everything. For a different conversation, perhaps.

what's the never ending narrative of "singular issue protesting only" all about?

i'm fed up with a whole lot of different issues and will protest each and everyone of them when I have the time, it's not easy but i try to attend as many protests as is possible, it's usually for something damn important and could do with a whole lot more support from people tbqh, at the end of the day each and everytime i went on a protest i had a great time meeting new people and standing up for what is right, peaceful protest is fun, i'd highly recommend it :pac:

Crumbs868

Shell site in rosspot is about to open so the protestors have moved on. Topaz is their new target....

renegademaster

renegademaster wrote: »

what's the never ending narrative of "singular issue protesting only" all about?

i'm fed up with a whole lot of different issues and will protest each and everyone of them when I have the time, it's not easy but i try to attend as many protests as is possible, it's usually for something damn important and could do with a whole lot more support from people tbqh, at the end of the day each and everytime i went on a protest i had a great time meeting new people and standing up for what is right, peaceful protest is fun, i'd highly recommend it :pac:

and you are completely correct to protest everything you feel is unjust, but the segway to Topaz in some peoples eyes, me as someone who didn't protest and possibly people who did, water down (sorry) the validity of the initial water charge protest.

I'm actually Pro water rates of some kind. money that is solely colloected for the upkeep and from here on out fixing of pipes makes sense. especially in a country where
1 A huge infrastructure will need to be invested because Leinster and mainly Dublin will start to if not already need water from outside Leinster to be pumped in because of the ballooning population growth.
2 people in rural areas have been paying for water in group schemes for years so the "double tax argument for me is a no go"

The issue is/should be Irish Water and the complete balls of a job that has occurred in setting it up.

Mrs OBumble

connemara man wrote: »

The issue is/should be Irish Water and the complete balls of a job that has occurred in setting it up.

Agreed. But that is not what the protest is about. It is about "we won't pay".

renegademaster

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Agreed. But that is not what the protest is about. It is about "we won't pay twice".

fyp there

renegademaster

renegademaster wrote: »

fyp there

by that ethos should people stop paying for water that are in public schemes? or stop paying a tax?