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Jeptoo test positive

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,370 ✭✭✭pconn062


    Rita not priscah, pretty shocking.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 542 ✭✭✭Netwerk Errer


    We'll have to wait for the B test to come back. Going to be an awkward situation for the Marathon Majors. They will be presenting the winner this weekend and they can't strip a title before a B test is also positive.

    On another note, how the hell was this positive test announced before the B sample came back?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,693 ✭✭✭tHE vAGGABOND


    Between Shobukhova and now her, not a brilliant history of womens Chicago winners over last number of years at all..


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,781 ✭✭✭Ceepo



    On another note, how the hell was this positive test announced before the B sample came back?

    Isn't always the case that it is comes out before B sample is tested.
    not saying it is right but just seems to happen.

    What ever about the Marathon Majors problem it won't do much for Kenya 's clean record, especially as they were under the spotlight earlier this year.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    On another note, how the hell was this positive test announced before the B sample came back?

    Don't think it has been announced officially


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,148 ✭✭✭rom


    pconn062 wrote: »
    Rita not priscah, pretty shocking.

    Depressing. Hardly shocking tbh.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,370 ✭✭✭pconn062


    rom wrote: »
    Depressing. Hardly shocking tbh.

    True.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,697 ✭✭✭Chivito550


    2 of the fastest female marathon runners in history in the soup within a matter of months. Bet ya won't get the same level of mass hysteria and sensationalism on this forum like there was when the sprinters got busted. Cheats in all disciplines of all sports. Remember that.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 763 ✭✭✭gerard_65


    rom wrote: »
    Depressing. Hardly shocking tbh.
    And if the B sample is positive she'll get a lengthy two year ban, that'll teach her:rolleyes:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,791 ✭✭✭Enduro


    Chivito550 wrote: »
    2 of the fastest female marathon runners in history in the soup within a matter of months. Bet ya won't get the same level of mass hysteria and sensationalism on this forum like there was when the sprinters got busted. Cheats in all disciplines of all sports. Remember that.

    I don't see why you think this. I think an Irish marathon cheater caused the largest PED discussion on this forum in the last year. Speaking for myself, I hold all deliberate PED cheaters in contempt, irrespective of their discipline or sport.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,697 ✭✭✭Chivito550


    Enduro wrote: »
    I don't see why you think this. I think an Irish marathon cheater caused the largest PED discussion on this forum in the last year. Speaking for myself, I hold all deliberate PED cheaters in contempt, irrespective of their discipline or sport.

    Because he is Irish, and this is an Irish forum.

    I've noticed a lot of nonsense being spoken on this forum about sprinting because of Gatlin, Gay and Powell's bans. You won't see the same lazy "they are all at it" comments about the marathon, no matter how many Kenyans get busted.

    Anyway, back on topic, disappointing news.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,791 ✭✭✭Enduro


    Chivito550 wrote: »
    Because he is Irish, and this is an Irish forum.

    I've noticed a lot of nonsense being spoken on this forum about sprinting because of Gatlin, Gay and Powell's bans. You won't see the same lazy "they are all at it" comments about the marathon, no matter how many Kenyans get busted.

    Anyway, back on topic, disappointing news.

    Well we're seeing different things then, and this thread is a perfect example of that. On the subject of PEDs you and I happen to be very much on the same side (In case you haven't realised it). But I think you let your "poor oppressed spinter" blinkers get in the way sometimes.

    Agreed its disapointing. Hopefully if the B test is found to be positive they'll throw the book at her (even though its a pathetically small book).


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,370 ✭✭✭pconn062


    We'll have to wait for the B test to come back. Going to be an awkward situation for the Marathon Majors. They will be presenting the winner this weekend and they can't strip a title before a B test is also positive.

    On another note, how the hell was this positive test announced before the B sample came back?

    +1

    Is this normal to make an announcement before the B sample is tested?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 763 ✭✭✭gerard_65


    Chivito550 wrote: »
    Because he is Irish, and this is an Irish forum.

    I've noticed a lot of nonsense being spoken on this forum about sprinting because of Gatlin, Gay and Powell's bans. You won't see the same lazy "they are all at it" comments about the marathon, no matter how many Kenyans get busted.

    Anyway, back on topic, disappointing news.
    More high profile sprinters get done than middle or long distance runners.
    BTW the 'they are all at it' comment may have been attributed to me. I actually wrote 'are they all at it?'. My original question was edited by a mod to make it read like a statement. (something I'm still pissed about).


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,697 ✭✭✭Chivito550


    Enduro wrote: »
    Well we're seeing different things then, and this thread is a perfect example of that. On the subject of PEDs you and I happen to be very much on the same side (In case you haven't realised it). But I think you let your "poor oppressed spinter" blinkers get in the way sometimes.

    Agreed its disapointing. Hopefully if the B test is found to be positive they'll throw the book at her (even though its a pathetically small book).

    Ah yeh, I'm against doping in any discipline. It's just I think sprinting gets a worse rep from its drug busts than other disciplines, probably because the 100m is the marquee event these days. I think this is unfair and that there is no evidence to suggest distance running is any cleaner, just that more non athletics people know who Gatlin is than Jeptoo.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,781 ✭✭✭Ceepo


    pconn062 wrote: »
    +1

    Is this normal to make an announcement before the B sample is tested?

    If memory serves me right it would normally come out that x athlete tested positive and that the B sample will now be tested to confirm the results.

    Don't know who would be responsible for announcing the news to the public.

    As far as I am aware only the Athlete in question and the athletes federation are the only ones to notified of a adverse test.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,558 ✭✭✭Peckham


    Story seems to be coming from "trusted sources", ie someone has leaked it rather than it being announced


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,781 ✭✭✭Ceepo




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,864 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    In fairness a lot of the positive tests have been from tainted supplements. The things people getting cut for are bit idiotic. Good link

    http://www.runnersworld.com/new-york-city-marathon/sports-gene-author-reacts-to-rita-jeptoo-drug-test-news?adbid=528252646587518976&adbpl=tw&adbpr=14882900&cid=social34798837


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 755 ✭✭✭Sandwell


    Jeptoo's positive is apparently for EPO so the tainted supplement defence won't wash. This is a huge blow to the reputation of Kenyan running. Any positives to date have been fairly minor players and have been easily dismissed. It's going to cast doubt on all the big names, especially as most of them live and train in such close proximity to each other.

    I wouldn't accept the argument about sprinters being unfairly maligned, by the way. Too many big names have been popped over the years, going back to Johnson, and the cynicsim and disbelief has been well earned. For the most part, the giants of modern distance runnning have remained untainted by positive tests.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,864 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    Sandwell wrote: »
    Jeptoo's positive is apparently for EPO so the tainted supplement defence won't wash. This is a huge blow to the reputation of Kenyan running. Any positives to date have been fairly minor players and have been easily dismissed. It's going to cast doubt on all the big names, especially as most of them live and train in such close proximity to each other.

    I wouldn't accept the argument about sprinters being unfairly maligned, by the way. Too many big names have been popped over the years, going back to Johnson, and the cynicsim and disbelief has been well earned. For the most part, the giants of modern distance runnning have remained untainted by positive tests.

    Pretty stupid to get caught on epo, as ways around it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 617 ✭✭✭pa4


    Really doesn't look good after her winning both the Boston and Chicago marathon in the last 2 years. Anyone know how long it usually takes for the B sample results to come back?

    Apparently WADA are helping Kenya set up an anti-doping agency since they don't really have a proper structure in place. Could be the first of many positive tests to come.

    Link: http://www.athletics-africa.com/s/news/africa/kenya/wada-help-kenya-form-new-anti-doping-body-9159


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 542 ✭✭✭Netwerk Errer


    pa4 wrote: »
    Really doesn't look good after her winning both the Boston and Chicago marathon in the last 2 years. Anyone know how long it usually takes for the B sample results to come back?

    Apparently WADA are helping Kenya set up an anti-doping agency since they don't really have a proper structure in place. Could be the first of many positive tests to come.

    Link: http://www.athletics-africa.com/s/news/africa/kenya/wada-help-kenya-form-new-anti-doping-body-9159

    It's been known to take 2-4 weeks.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,148 ✭✭✭rom


    Chivito550 wrote: »
    Ah yeh, I'm against doping in any discipline. It's just I think sprinting gets a worse rep from its drug busts than other disciplines, probably because the 100m is the marquee event these days. I think this is unfair and that there is no evidence to suggest distance running is any cleaner, just that more non athletics people know who Gatlin is than Jeptoo.

    tbh I believe that some parts of distance running is as dirty if not more than the sprints. If I wanted to evade paying my tv license I would move in with a load of students.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/athletics/9647354/Wada-says-there-is-no-blood-testing-for-EPO-in-Kenyas-big-training-centre-for-distance-runners.html


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 755 ✭✭✭Sandwell


    Pretty stupid to get caught on epo, as ways around it.

    Sure is. A huge amount of derivatives out there and many of them undetectable apparently. But perhaps the lack of controls within Kenya led to complacency, or somebody was trying to do things on the cheap.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,697 ✭✭✭Chivito550


    Sandwell wrote: »
    Jeptoo's positive is apparently for EPO so the tainted supplement defence won't wash. This is a huge blow to the reputation of Kenyan running. Any positives to date have been fairly minor players and have been easily dismissed. It's going to cast doubt on all the big names, especially as most of them live and train in such close proximity to each other.

    I wouldn't accept the argument about sprinters being unfairly maligned, by the way. Too many big names have been popped over the years, going back to Johnson, and the cynicsim and disbelief has been well earned. For the most part, the giants of modern distance runnning have remained untainted by positive tests.

    Lol. Explain the huge drop in times in the men's 1500m, 3000m, 5000m and 10000m once the EPO era started in the early to mid 90s. Nobody has got close to these times in the last 8 years or so. There's plenty of stories about distance greats but it's behind the scenes stuff. Hearsay I guess.

    Don't get me started on the women's world records. Turtle juice my @rse.

    I've no issue with people thinking sprinting is dirty. It's the nonsense that distance running is cleaner that gets on my goat. Sure look at the amount of filthy cheats that did Sonia out of medals over the years.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 755 ✭✭✭Sandwell


    Chivito550 wrote: »
    Lol. Explain the huge drop in times in the men's 1500m, 3000m, 5000m and 10000m once the EPO era started in the early to mid 90s. Nobody has got close to these times in the last 8 years or so. There's plenty of stories about distance greats but it's behind the scenes stuff. Hearsay I guess.

    Don't get me started on the women's world records. Turtle juice my @rse.

    I've no issue with people thinking sprinting is dirty. It's the nonsense that distance running is cleaner that gets on my goat. Sure look at the amount of filthy cheats that did Sonia out of medals over the years.

    No arguments there. I'm a sceptic. Perception is everything though, and top sprinters, male and female, have been consistently caught out over the years. Top distance runners, particularly marathon runners, have not. Until that changes many people will understandably be more cynical about sprinting. And the whole Gatlin thing is a stain on sport, full stop, imo.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,864 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    Chivito550 wrote: »
    Lol. Explain the huge drop in times in the men's 1500m, 3000m, 5000m and 10000m once the EPO era started in the early to mid 90s. Nobody has got close to these times in the last 8 years or so. There's plenty of stories about distance greats but it's behind the scenes stuff. Hearsay I guess.

    Don't get me started on the women's world records. Turtle juice my @rse.

    I've no issue with people thinking sprinting is dirty. It's the nonsense that distance running is cleaner that gets on my goat. Sure look at the amount of filthy cheats that did Sonia out of medals over the years.

    It's nonsense to think athletics is clean or that any sport is.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35 chrissymc


    Was said on tv this morning that 32 Kenyans had positive doping results over 3 year period!! So makes you wonder about their marathon results in DCM, Boston, New York etc


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,148 ✭✭✭rom


    http://www.alltime-athletics.com/mmaraok.htm

    sub 2:10.27 times

    127 times of sub that in 2014
    215 times of sub that in 2013
    228 times of sub that in 2012
    219 times of sub that in 2011
    185 times of sub that in 2010
    145 times of sub that in 2009
    131 times of sub that in 2008

    interesting. I know there is a few to go this year but it will be much less that 2011-2013


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,148 ✭✭✭rom


    rom wrote: »
    http://www.alltime-athletics.com/mmaraok.htm

    sub 2:10.27 times

    127 times of sub that in 2014
    215 times of sub that in 2013
    228 times of sub that in 2012
    219 times of sub that in 2011
    185 times of sub that in 2010
    145 times of sub that in 2009
    131 times of sub that in 2008

    interesting. I know there is a few to go this year but it will be much less that 2011-2013

    Sub 2:30 female times

    2014 = 125
    2013 = 151
    2012 = 193
    2011 = 194
    2010 = 127
    2009 = 114
    2008 = 137

    No such pattern in womens marathoning. Strange when prize money is normally equal. 2011 - 2012 could simply be put down to them being olympic years. The male 2013 number seems like a big jump and a dramatic fall off this year. With 85% of the athletes achieving these male times being from Kenya I wonder what is the factor that there is a noticeable drop off.

    http://www.theroar.com.au/2014/06/27/running-and-the-use-of-performance-enhancing-drugs-an-ongoing-dilemma/

    "With regard to Kenya, it was reported in 2012 that its athletes were not blood tested at the domestic level, despite blood testing being crucial to help detect the endurance booster erythropoietin (EPO), blood transfusions, and human growth hormone. While the IAAF indicated it only took blood samples when Kenyans compete or train abroad, WADA highlighted the difficulty of testing in Kenya because of its remote location, transport difficulties, and costs."

    http://www.runnersworld.com/general-interest/kenya-will-begin-building-drug-testing-center-in-january

    perhaps this is the reason why its dropped.

    Anytime I see a big drop like this it always good for the sport.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 767 ✭✭✭wrstan


    Chivito550 wrote: »
    I think sprinting gets a worse rep from its drug busts than other disciplines.

    I don't see any evidence of that :(


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15 wall.e


    I've lived in Kenya, amongst the Kenyans. I've never seen any hard evidence there is doping, but they wouldn't be doing a good job of it if it was out for everyone to see. I'm a professional in Exercise Physiology and I know as well as anyone how life is in Kenya. It's my opinion that doping exists in Kenya and that it is larger than people would like everyone to believe.

    Someone mentioned questioning the winners of marathons and included DCM. Because I am involved with the winner I thought I'd comment about our group.

    Neil and I have a zero tolerance policy with the athletes in our camp. We are constantly talking in front of and to the athletes about doping. I would say our athletes are sufficiently informed on the ethical implications and the health risks involved in doping. As coaches we do everything we can to prevent doping, but in the end it is their decision.

    In Dublin Eliud wasn't tested until three hours after the race. His samples weren't able to be used because they were too diluted. They ended up allowing him to leave as he was fully compliant throughout the whole process. I was a little disappointed they didn't test him sooner after the race or force him to stay until he provided a sufficient sample. I think our sport, all of sports, has come to the point that we have to be a bit ridiculous of what we ask of the athletes. They really did a good job though, I just wish it had been a little more strict. Also, I have a lot of respect for Ireland since it is pretty much the Gold Standard of anti-doping. Now when Eliud was in Indianapolis (placing 3rd) and Cleveland (placing 2nd) there wasn't even a sighting of doping control. Unbelievable!

    I think we need to adopt a proactive approach as coaches and managers. A goal of mine is to get a Coulter hematology analyzer in Iten (If anyone would like to sponsor this please be in touch). I think the way it is now, innocent until proven guilty, should be changed to under question until proven clean. My idea is to start to grow a data set on the blood profiles of athletes giving us the ability to see warning signs of any funny business. All of our athletes know we will gladly report them for further investigation.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,148 ✭✭✭rom


    http://asheducationbook.hematologylibrary.org/content/2013/1/627.full

    "A typical rHuEPO doping regime would consist of 2 administration phases. The first phase takes place several weeks before the competition and is focused on increasing hemoglobin mass. During this phase, athletes are at a higher risk of testing positive and therefore are more likely to travel to distant places with short notice to avoid testers."

    "The second rHuEPO administration phase is performed closer to or during competition. Until recently, is was anticipated that rHuEPO was used out of competition when preparing for races only, but recent admissions by athletes have revealed the use of rHuEPO also in competition.7 Here, the restriction in the timing of sample collection is used to the advantage of the doping athlete. In general, doping control officers are not allowed to collect samples from 11:00 PM until 6:00 AM. Injecting a microdose of first-generation rHuEPOs in the evening shortly after 11:00 PM could theoretically be undetectable the following morning at 6:00 AM, when testers are allowed to collect samples again."


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,896 ✭✭✭Sacksian


    Renata Canova who used to coach Rita Jeptoo has posted extensively on Letsrun about her test and his take on doping in Kenya:

    http://www.letsrun.com/news/2014/11/renato-canova-one-top-distance-coaches-world-speaks-rita-jeptoo-doping-kenya/


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 518 ✭✭✭leftism


    Canova's comments regarding doping in Kenya remind me of Johann Bruynell's comments regarding doping in the US Postal Team back at the turn of the century.

    He has consistently denied that there is a doping problem in Kenya. Not only that, but he continues to argue that blood doping doesn't have any positive physiological effect on elites, despite all the historical evidence to the contrary. Then when faced with hard evidence and positive drug tests, he resorts to blaming Kenyans and denying any involvement from European (Italian) coaches. But we know that the scourge of EPO and blood doping originated in Italy in the late 80's. Francesco Conconi and Michele Ferrari are two names that will be etched in the history of professional cycling for all the wrong reasons. Are we to believe that Renato Canova, Federico Rosa and Claudio Berardelli are entirely different?

    Regardless of the presence or absence of these coaches, the rot will continue until a robust out of competition testing system is developed in Kenya. The lessons from professional cycling have taught us that in-competition testing is totally ineffective at catching cheats. The only dopers that fail in-competition tests are poorly prepared and/or badly educated on the pharmacology. As Tyler Hamilton said "if you're stupid enough to get caught in-competition, you deserve to be banned".

    In Ireland we have a robust out of competition testing system which is governed primarily by the Irish Sports Council. So most Irish athletes will face 3/4 random tests per year. But imagine if Ireland had world-class athletes that were never subjected to out of competition testing at any point in their career. That situation is a reality in Kenya and until it changes, the problem will continue...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 629 ✭✭✭Clum


    wall.e wrote: »
    Now when Eliud was in Indianapolis (placing 3rd) and Cleveland (placing 2nd) there wasn't even a sighting of doping control. Unbelievable!

    I'm delighted you said this, but disappointed that it's happening.

    I wonder was Jeptoo tested for EPO after winning Chicago, just weeks after her failed test, and whether she'll test positive again.

    The disqualification and subsequent suspension of Sisay after the 2011 NYC marathon made me very suspicious of the quality of testing performed at big city marathons. Sisay finished 9th but it wasn't until 6 months later he was disqualified after it was announced he failed a drug test. He tested positive for EPO.

    The stories that came out at the time hinted at a tip-off and prompts to have a specific EPO test performed on his blood sample from the day, a test which supposedly wasn't the norm after the marathon. Some folk say the prompts for a specific test came after a training partner was busted shortly after the NYC marathon. The training partner didn't run NYC but took part in another major marathon that year. He tested positive for EPO in out-of-competition test, not one performed at the major marathon.

    Obviously I don't have the inside information on why the disqualification took 6 months, the rumours about retrospective testing may just be rumours. But if there is any truth to the stories it'd make you wonder just how serious the really big city marathons are taking anti-doping.

    (I didn't mention the training partner's name because I won't want to instigate any athlete-bashing, it's already been done.)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 57,358 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    wrstan wrote: »
    I don't see any evidence of that :(

    I think it probably does. For whatever reason doping seems to be more seen and associated (by the general public and casual fans) with the power and explosive events. The muscly guys and women who astound us with their feats. Also, the sprinters seem to be far more known that the distance runners.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 755 ✭✭✭Sandwell


    walshb wrote: »
    I think it probably does. For whatever reason doping seems to be more seen and associated (by the general public and casual fans) with the power and explosive events. The muscly guys and women who astound us with their feats. Also, the sprinters seem to be far more known that the distance runners.

    I think doping is associated by those you mention with sprinting (and cycling) because it is in those sports where the household names have been caught. If Mo Farah or Bekele, for example, were to test positive that attitude would soon shift to include distance events.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,738 ✭✭✭Jay D


    Are the winners of the Irish marathons tested at all?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    Jay D wrote: »
    Are the winners of the Irish marathons tested at all?

    answered upthread


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,697 ✭✭✭Chivito550


    Sandwell wrote: »
    I think doping is associated by those you mention with sprinting (and cycling) because it is in those sports where the household names have been caught. If Mo Farah or Bekele, for example, were to test positive that attitude would soon shift to include distance events.

    Make of the below what you will.

    Men's 10000m World Record Progression

    27:38.35 Lasse Virén (FIN) September 3, 1972
    27:30.8 David Bedford (GBR) July 13, 1973
    27:30.5 Samson Kimobwa (KEN) June 30, 1977
    27:22.4 Henry Rono (KEN) June 11, 1978
    27:13.81 Fernando Mamede (POR) July 2, 1984
    27:08.23 Arturo Barrios (MEX) August 18, 1989

    * Recombinant erythropoietin (EPO) starts to become widely used *

    27:07.91 - Richard Chelimo (KEN) July 5, 1993
    26:58.38 - Yobes Ondieki (KEN) July 10, 1993
    26:52.23 - William Sigei (KEN) July 22, 1994
    26:43.53 - Haile Gebrselassie (ETH) June 5, 1995
    26:38.08 - Salah Hissou (MAR) August 23,1996
    26:31.32 - Haile Gebrselassie (ETH) August 4, 1997
    26:27.85 - Paul Tergat (KEN) August 22,1997
    26:22.75 - Haile Gebrselassie (ETH) June 1, 1998

    * EPO test put in use in 2000 *

    26:20.31 - Kenenisa Bekele (ETH) June 8, 2004
    26:17.53 - Kenenisa Bekele (ETH) August 26,2005

    Men's 1500m World Record Progression

    3:32.16 - Filbert Bayi (TAN) 1974-02-02
    3:32.03 - Sebastian Coe (GBR) 1979-08-15
    3:32.09 - Steve Ovett (GBR) 1980-07-15
    3:31.36 - Steve Ovett (GBR) 1980-08-27
    3:31.24 - Sydney Maree (USA) 1983-08-28
    3:30.77 - Steve Ovett (GBR) 1983-09-04
    3:29.67 - Steve Cram (GBR) 1985-07-16
    3:29.46 - Saïd Aouita (MAR) 1985-08-23

    * Recombinant erythropoietin (EPO) starts to become widely used *

    3:28.86 - Noureddine Morceli (ALG) 1992-09-06
    3:27.37 - Noureddine Morceli (ALG) 1995-07-12
    3:26.00 - Hicham El Guerrouj (MAR) 1998-07-14

    * EPO test put in use in 2000 *

    Men's 3000m World Record Progression

    7:37.6 Emiel Puttemans (BEL) 1972-09-14
    7:35.2 Brendan Foster (GBR) 1974-08-03
    7:32.1 Henry Rono (KEN) 1978-06-27
    7:29.45 Saïd Aouita (MAR) 1989-08-20

    * Recombinant erythropoietin (EPO) starts to become widely used *

    7:28.96 Moses Kiptanui (KEN) 1992-08-16
    7:25.11 Noureddine Morceli (ALG) 1994-08-02
    7:20.67 Daniel Komen (KEN) 1996-09-01

    * EPO test put in use in 2000 *

    Men's 5000m World Record Progression

    13:16.4 Lasse Virén (FIN) 1972-09-14
    13:13.0 Emiel Puttemans (BEL) 1972-09-20
    13:12.9 Dick Quax (NZL) 1977-07-05
    13:08.4 Henry Rono (KEN) 1978-04-08
    13:06.20 Henry Rono (KEN) 1981-09-13
    13:00.41 David Moorcroft (GBR) 1982-07-07
    13:00.40 Saïd Aouita (MAR) 1985-07-22
    12:58.39 Saïd Aouita (MAR) 1987-07-27

    * Recombinant erythropoietin (EPO) starts to become widely used *

    12:56.96 Haile Gebrselassie (ETH) 1994-06-04
    12:55.30 Moses Kiptanui (KEN) 1995-06-08
    12:44.39 Haile Gebrselassie (ETH) 1995-08-16
    12:41.86 Haile Gebrselassie (ETH) 1997-08-13
    12:39.74 Daniel Komen (KEN) 1997-08-22
    12:39.36 Haile Gebrselassie (ETH) 1998-06-13

    * EPO test put in use in 2000 *

    12:37.35 Kenenisa Bekele (ETH) 2004-05-31


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 755 ✭✭✭Sandwell


    Chivito550 wrote: »
    Make of the below what you will.

    Men's 10000m World Record Progression

    27:38.35 Lasse Virén (FIN) September 3, 1972
    27:30.8 David Bedford (GBR) July 13, 1973
    27:30.5 Samson Kimobwa (KEN) June 30, 1977
    27:22.4 Henry Rono (KEN) June 11, 1978
    27:13.81 Fernando Mamede (POR) July 2, 1984
    27:08.23 Arturo Barrios (MEX) August 18, 1989

    * Recombinant erythropoietin (EPO) starts to become widely used *

    27:07.91 - Richard Chelimo (KEN) July 5, 1993
    26:58.38 - Yobes Ondieki (KEN) July 10, 1993
    26:52.23 - William Sigei (KEN) July 22, 1994
    26:43.53 - Haile Gebrselassie (ETH) June 5, 1995
    26:38.08 - Salah Hissou (MAR) August 23,1996
    26:31.32 - Haile Gebrselassie (ETH) August 4, 1997
    26:27.85 - Paul Tergat (KEN) August 22,1997
    26:22.75 - Haile Gebrselassie (ETH) June 1, 1998

    * EPO test put in use in 2000 *

    26:20.31 - Kenenisa Bekele (ETH) June 8, 2004
    26:17.53 - Kenenisa Bekele (ETH) August 26,2005

    Men's 1500m World Record Progression

    3:32.16 - Filbert Bayi (TAN) 1974-02-02
    3:32.03 - Sebastian Coe (GBR) 1979-08-15
    3:32.09 - Steve Ovett (GBR) 1980-07-15
    3:31.36 - Steve Ovett (GBR) 1980-08-27
    3:31.24 - Sydney Maree (USA) 1983-08-28
    3:30.77 - Steve Ovett (GBR) 1983-09-04
    3:29.67 - Steve Cram (GBR) 1985-07-16
    3:29.46 - Saïd Aouita (MAR) 1985-08-23

    * Recombinant erythropoietin (EPO) starts to become widely used *

    3:28.86 - Noureddine Morceli (ALG) 1992-09-06
    3:27.37 - Noureddine Morceli (ALG) 1995-07-12
    3:26.00 - Hicham El Guerrouj (MAR) 1998-07-14

    * EPO test put in use in 2000 *

    Men's 3000m World Record Progression

    7:37.6 Emiel Puttemans (BEL) 1972-09-14
    7:35.2 Brendan Foster (GBR) 1974-08-03
    7:32.1 Henry Rono (KEN) 1978-06-27
    7:29.45 Saïd Aouita (MAR) 1989-08-20

    * Recombinant erythropoietin (EPO) starts to become widely used *

    7:28.96 Moses Kiptanui (KEN) 1992-08-16
    7:25.11 Noureddine Morceli (ALG) 1994-08-02
    7:20.67 Daniel Komen (KEN) 1996-09-01

    * EPO test put in use in 2000 *

    Men's 5000m World Record Progression

    13:16.4 Lasse Virén (FIN) 1972-09-14
    13:13.0 Emiel Puttemans (BEL) 1972-09-20
    13:12.9 Dick Quax (NZL) 1977-07-05
    13:08.4 Henry Rono (KEN) 1978-04-08
    13:06.20 Henry Rono (KEN) 1981-09-13
    13:00.41 David Moorcroft (GBR) 1982-07-07
    13:00.40 Saïd Aouita (MAR) 1985-07-22
    12:58.39 Saïd Aouita (MAR) 1987-07-27

    * Recombinant erythropoietin (EPO) starts to become widely used *

    12:56.96 Haile Gebrselassie (ETH) 1994-06-04
    12:55.30 Moses Kiptanui (KEN) 1995-06-08
    12:44.39 Haile Gebrselassie (ETH) 1995-08-16
    12:41.86 Haile Gebrselassie (ETH) 1997-08-13
    12:39.74 Daniel Komen (KEN) 1997-08-22
    12:39.36 Haile Gebrselassie (ETH) 1998-06-13

    * EPO test put in use in 2000 *

    12:37.35 Kenenisa Bekele (ETH) 2004-05-31

    Well yes, the caught is key. I don't doubt for one minute that many of those records are dodgy. You were bemoaning the lot of sprinting though, and the fact that it gets a bad rep with the public compared to distance events. To me that's a no brainer. It's easily explained by the fact that none of the superstars of distance running have tested positive in recent times. Sprinting on the other hand has seen a litany of star names exposed as cheats and some of them are even back competing faster than ever. Cycling's in the same boat. Hence the cynicism from the public.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,697 ✭✭✭Chivito550


    Sandwell wrote: »
    Well yes, the caught is key. I don't doubt for one minute that many of those records are dodgy. You were bemoaning the lot of sprinting though, and the fact that it gets a bad rep with the public compared to distance events. To me that's a no brainer. It's easily explained by the fact that none of the superstars of distance running have tested positive in recent times. Sprinting on the other hand has seen a litany of star names exposed as cheats and some of them are even back competing faster than ever. Cycling's in the same boat. Hence the cynicism from the public.

    Could you argue the point there are more so called "Superstars" in sprinting than distance running? I'm sure the average man on the street knows who Bolt, Blake, Powell and Gay are, while outside of Farah the non athletics person would struggle to name a top distance runner from today.

    My personal opinion is that they are both equally dirty, but there are far more clean athletes in both than the skeptics give credit for. I'm just argueing the dumb notion that distance runners are a more honest lot. The fact is that Gay getting busted will make more noise among the general public than a Jeptoo bust, because, well, the non athletics person is more likely to know who Gay is.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15 wall.e


    You can't say distance running is even slightly protected because they are a more honest lot. The mentality of these athletes is from extreme poverty. Eliud's parents have two huts made from mud with thatched roofs. Each hut has two rooms. Each room is probably no larger than your own kitchens. This is for a family of 13! Kenyans don't know anything about doping, they only see a way to make life better. Unless they are educated about it they will think everything is fine and will do anything to win, to go from nothing to something. The general education level of most of these runners is Primary level, Secondary if they were lucky. Lance did it because that was his personality, East Africans do it because in a way it is literally what they have to do to survive. I've had loads of Kenyans walk up to me on the street and ask if I could organize training and races for them. During the conversation they've slipped in "maybe you can give me something extra to help". Now why would they be asking a Mzungu (white man. foreigner.) this if it isn't Mzungu's giving it out. Distance running is no different than any other discipline of sport. You'll have the same crooks here as you do there.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 755 ✭✭✭Sandwell


    I'd speculate that the only reason distance running has managed to stay relatively clean is that many of the top athletes do most of their training in countries where testing is minimal to non-existent. Random out-of-competition testing seems to be the only relatively effective way to combat blood doping.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,454 ✭✭✭Clearlier


    Chivito550 wrote: »
    Could you argue the point there are more so called "Superstars" in sprinting than distance running? I'm sure the average man on the street knows who Bolt, Blake, Powell and Gay are, while outside of Farah the non athletics person would struggle to name a top distance runner from today.

    My personal opinion is that they are both equally dirty, but there are far more clean athletes in both than the skeptics give credit for. I'm just argueing the dumb notion that distance runners are a more honest lot. The fact is that Gay getting busted will make more noise among the general public than a Jeptoo bust, because, well, the non athletics person is more likely to know who Gay is.

    I think that you could argue the superstars thing but there's a little more to it than that. Also, sprinters often look different to your average person on the street whereas distance runners look relatively normal if maybe a bit skinny. If they're different they must be doing something wrong, right? There's also the hypocrisy of Gay. I think I'm allowed to say now that he has been busted that I suspected him for a long time before he got caught and I don't believe his story for a moment yet he copied the sincere behaviours of people who really were opposed to doping and had his 'trusted the wrong person' story ready to go in case he did get busted. He's the kind of guy that can destroy the sport. As if that wasn't bad enough you've got Gatlin competing again and not only that but running his fastest times ever at an age when historically everyone else who didn't dope slows down. Finally you've got the 100m in Seoul, forever a stain on the sport and on sprinting in particular.

    I suppose I'd say that in addition to the superstars thing you also have a greater number of the very highest level athletes caught doping. With the obvious exception of Bolt there is a dearth of top level sprinters who haven't been caught doping at one time or another. Long distance is a different story. I've been heartened by the slew of positives coming out of Russia in particular after the introduction of the biological passport. This is the way of the future for distance running in particular.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,791 ✭✭✭Enduro


    Chivito550 wrote: »
    Could you argue the point there are more so called "Superstars" in sprinting than distance running? I'm sure the average man on the street knows who Bolt, Blake, Powell and Gay are, while outside of Farah the non athletics person would struggle to name a top distance runner from today.

    My personal opinion is that they are both equally dirty, but there are far more clean athletes in both than the skeptics give credit for. I'm just argueing the dumb notion that distance runners are a more honest lot. The fact is that Gay getting busted will make more noise among the general public than a Jeptoo bust, because, well, the non athletics person is more likely to know who Gay is.

    I agree with every word of that, except for the fact that there is a dumb notion that distance runners are more honest. I've never heard that expressed by anyone except you!

    My own opinion is that sprinting is in a better place than distance running since so many top level athletes are being caught. That to me is a very good thing for all the clean sprinters (i.e. the vast majority). That would at least seem to indicate that the testing procedures are working well, maybe well enough to deter the more borderline potential cheaters. It would be great if that effect could spread to all athletic disciplines.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,697 ✭✭✭Chivito550


    Enduro wrote: »
    I agree with every word of that, except for the fact that there is a dumb notion that distance runners are more honest. I've never heard that expressed by anyone except you!

    My own opinion is that sprinting is in a better place than distance running since so many top level athletes are being caught. That to me is a very good thing for all the clean sprinters (i.e. the vast majority). That would at least seem to indicate that the testing procedures are working well, maybe well enough to deter the more borderline potential cheaters. It would be great if that effect could spread to all athletic disciplines.

    Dramatic effect I guess. It's in reference to a few posters here who have come out with comments like "are they all at it?", and "I refuse to watch sprinting anymore", when a big name gets busted. Well here we are now with a huge marathon name in the same situation, and you won't get the same OTT hysteria here for this.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 57,358 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Most of the people who come out with the whole "they're all at it" and "I won't watch it anymore" are casual fans who tune into the 100 metres finals every couple of years. They couldn't give a toss about anything above 200 meters.


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