Will Dublin's quays cycle route get same support as London's?

trellheim

Repurposing roadspace is the exact same as a congestion charge. Both limit roadsupply and temper demand. Repurposing is also less controversial and more incrementally implementable.

Not exactly the same. They do both limit roadsupply and temper demand but in different ways.

hfallada

AlekSmart wrote: »

Currently,no politician will go anywhere near the box marked Private Motoring Access,as it will reveal a substantial amount of pure grief for Motorists,all of which will require spirited defence on the media.

But motorist dont have a lobby group. The resistant from any changes wouuld be a few phone calls to liveline at most. But any changes in say farming grants would result in backlash from the IFA. Thats a powerful lobby group, that could influence policy

Aard

AlekSmart wrote: »

There may even be an appetite for finally challenging the dominance of City Centre Multi-Story Car Park operators in Traffic Policy matters,this may well entail buying out some of them via a West-Link style arrangement,but their location as honey-pots attracting the Motorized Bees has to be addressed at some point.

I wouldn't bet on it Alek. Look at the proposal for Moore St / Carlton site. Multistorey parking access off Moore St. Bye bye traders, hello cars cars cars

Would be great if the council could incetivise redevelopment of the multistoreys, in particular Brown Thomas and Arnotts.

Aard

hfallada wrote: »

But motorist dont have a lobby group.

The AA / Conor Faughnan

cgcsb

Aard wrote: »

I wouldn't bet on it Alek. Look at the proposal for Moore St / Carlton site. Multistorey parking access off Moore St. Bye bye traders, hello cars cars cars

Would be great if the council could incetivise redevelopment of the multistoreys, in particular Brown Thomas and Arnotts.

Multi storey? Its a basement car park, nowhere near the scale of bt or even jervis

Aard

The Arnotts one? Whoops. Either way, access off O'Connell Street proves problematic, for example with the recent BRT plans.

Pete_Cavan

Motorists dont need a lobby group, they have general public opinion on their side. It is so engrained in peoples minds here that anything that restricts cars is met with opposition, even those who never set foot in Dublin would have sympathy for their car dependent brethren were road space be given over to the enemy (aka buses and cyclists).

Of course, continuing to accommodate drivers is a self defeating policy, the more space available the more cars that will fill it. I would be in favour of redesignating road space over congestion charges. Congestion charges may reduce traffic but it wont necessarily improve things for cyclists or public transport users. Looking after public transport and cyclists would be beneficial to the majority of those who live in and around the city and also actually gives drivers a more attractive alternative. Those who choose not to take it can crawl through the chaos on streets still open to general traffic. I would see congestion charges as only punishing drivers with limited residual benefits but repurposing road space also rewards those not driving.

Buying out car parks would be too expensive and will never happen. The only option is to inconvenience their customers so much that occupancy rates drop to the point that the space is more valuable in other uses. Access to the car parks can remain but closing the quays to general traffic would cause such delays around the city that many would stop driving. The car park can continue to operate and those drivers who decide to wade through the traffic can still use them but revenue for the owners would be way down.

monument

trellheim wrote: »

...this kind of cycle track will not be possible without a very large reduction in private motor transport. the only possible way I can think of doing this is via very very large congestion charge of the order of a 20 euro a day type of thing.

Why?

The main pinch points on the north quays are between Blackhall Place and Church Street and that's solved by moving buses as already outlined.

The Luas/BRT plans which will come before the cycle route, will remove some major flows on and off the north quays:



That'll reduce a lot of the current demand which uses the quayside general traffic lane from Jervis Street or even Capel Street.

Aard wrote: »

The Arnotts one? Whoops. Either way, access off O'Connell Street proves problematic, for example with the recent BRT plans.

Access to Arnotts car park to be maintained.

cgcsb

monument wrote: »

The main pinch points on the north quays are between Blackhall Place and Church Street and that's solved by moving buses as already outlined.

Where is that coming from? I've used buses along that route for years and find it only slows down when you get to the four courts. The part between Blackhall and Church st is slower for general traffic, as it's only one lane, but buses and cyclists fly through that section.

monument

cgcsb wrote: »

Where is that coming from? I've used buses along that route for years and find it only slows down when you get to the four courts. The part between Blackhall and Church st is slower for general traffic, as it's only one lane, but buses and cyclists fly through that section.

I'm talking about the main pinch point in trying to fit in a high-qualty walking and cycling route, including the two-way cycle path on the quay side.

Pete_Cavan

monument wrote: »

I'm talking about the main pinch point in trying to fit in a high-qualty walking and cycling route, including the two-way cycle path on the quay side.

This is just one pinch point, the other would be Eden Quay with its contra flow bus lane, it will be interesting to see how they deal with it.

monument

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

This is just one pinch point, the other would be Eden Quay with its contra flow bus lane, it will be interesting to see how they deal with it.

Take out a traffic lane. Not only is it the only practical, only cost-effective solution, but there will be less need for that extra traffic lane because of the BRT/Luas plans and the related restrictions of motor traffic flows on and off the quays.