Do we already pay for water?

SameDiff · 30-10-2014 3:32pm

It's just another way of increasing tax. They could do it with a change to income tax higher rates. With a stroke of a pen they could earn the same amount with a 1 or 2% increase in the top rate, but it's easier to apply what people perceive as a fair tax i.e. 'metered water usage'.

Last thing Kenny wants to do is alienate top earners, so it's easier to apply the tax to everybody.

It's completely unjust and unconstitutional, but it's Ireland. It's not England, when Thatcher tried to introduce the poll tax and all hell broke loose. Irish people will himmm and hawww and then comply.

They always do. Anyone who opposes will be shouted down as a nutter.

FreudianSlippers · 30-10-2014 3:36pm

SameDiff wrote: »

It's just another way of increasing tax. They could do it with a change to income tax higher rates. With a stroke of a pen they could earn the same amount with a 1 or 2% increase in the top rate, but it's easier to apply what people perceive as a fair tax i.e. 'metered water usage'.

I'm not sure how they would reconcile this with the Troika MoU? I'm further unclear on how increasing top rate tax (which I'll remind you is €32,800) is fair to anyone or even remotely benefits the majority of the country.

Last thing Kenny wants to do is alienate top earners, so it's easier to apply the tax to everybody.

€32,800! I'M RICH BEYOND MY WILDEST DREAMS!

It's completely unjust and unconstitutional

How is it unconstitutional? I won't bother waiting for a reply as it'll never happen.

SameDiff · 30-10-2014 3:40pm

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

I'm not sure how they would reconcile this with the Troika MoU? I'm further unclear on how increasing top rate tax (which I'll remind you is €32,800) is fair to anyone or even remotely benefits the majority of the country.

€32,800! I'M RICH BEYOND MY WILDEST DREAMS!

How is it unconstitutional? I won't bother waiting for a reply as it'll never happen.

....as I said anyone who opposes will be shouted down. Q.E.D.

Google "Poll Tax Riots" a.k.a. the community charge (bells ringing yet?), it cost Thatcher her career.

alastair · 30-10-2014 3:41pm

SameDiff wrote: »

It's completely unjust and unconstitutional

Actually, it's both just and constitutional.

SameDiff · 30-10-2014 3:43pm

alastair wrote: »

Actually, it's both just and constitutional.

....as I said anyone who opposes will be shouted down. Q.E.D.

BoJack Horseman · 30-10-2014 3:43pm

SameDiff wrote: »

Google "Poll Tax Riots" a.k.a. the community charge (bells ringing yet?), it cost Thatcher her career.

Hopefully there won't be similar levels of violence for a utility bill marginally higher than the TV lisence fee.

Let change happen at the ballot box.

alastair · 30-10-2014 3:43pm

SameDiff wrote: »

....as I said anyone who opposes will be shouted down. Q.E.D.

Google "Poll Tax Riots" a.k.a. the community charge (bells ringing yet?), it cost Thatcher her career.

Th local authorities refused to enforce the poll tax collection, which made it's introduction more than a bit problematic. The local authorities here don't seem to have any problem with water charges, and the bill enforcement mechanisms for IW are pretty proven.

creedp · 30-10-2014 3:43pm

alastair wrote: »

A significant reason that IW was tied in with Bord Gais is that it enables the water management to be taken out of the state's end of year liabilities, and into the semi state sector. If it's to be a semi-state for book-keeping purposes (which seems a legitimate strategy to me), then should it be a new semi-state, or one aligned with a semi-state already engaged in the utility business? I seriously doubt the employee terms and conditions at BG ever really entered into the decision-making process.

Well as I see it one of the real deal breakers for public support for water charges are the BG term and conditions to which IW employees have become entitled to. In hindsight was were the particular advantage of linking IW to an existing utility comapny?

BoJack Horseman · 30-10-2014 3:44pm

SameDiff wrote: »

....as I said anyone who opposes will be shouted down. Q.E.D.

Dude, a contrary opinion is not "shouted down".

alastair · 30-10-2014 3:44pm

SameDiff wrote: »

....as I said anyone who opposes will be shouted down. Q.E.D.

Is someone shouting you down? You made a false claim. Just pointing that out.

BoJack Horseman · 30-10-2014 3:46pm

creedp wrote: »

was were the particular advantage of linking IW to an existing utility comapny?

I'm guessing it allows IW to borrow more favourably compared to their ability as a new standalone entity?

SameDiff · 30-10-2014 3:47pm

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Let change happen at the ballot box.

I wouldn't have much faith in a populace that put Bertie Ahern in three times. The Irish are f*cking clueless when it comes to national affairs. All the educated ones leave.

BoJack Horseman · 30-10-2014 3:51pm

SameDiff wrote: »

I wouldn't have much faith in a populace that put Bertie Ahern in three times. The Irish are f*cking clueless when it comes to national affairs. All the educated ones leave.

BoJack is still here.

Or, (to be contrarian) considering the alternate menu of SF/The Joe Higgins Party/Freeman Ben Gilroy/National Independence Party (our very own BNP)/Eirigi (even worse)...... The Irish in their wisdom have chosen a calmer course

..... (Bertie aside of course)

creedp · 30-10-2014 3:59pm

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

I'm guessing it allows IW to borrow more favourably compared to their ability as a new standalone entity?

Well I'm only guessing also but I would have thought that its status as a semi-state organisation would give it the basis for more favourable borrowing terms .. as I said only guessing here as I've have yet to hear what the stated reason is. Maybe it has been swallowed up in the din of the continued justification of why IW as it is currently constituted is the only option in town.

FREETV · 30-10-2014 4:03pm

It is an out and out scam designed to bleed us dry, an austerity tax.

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/will-saturdays-water-rally-be-the-day-when-sitting-ducks-who-forked-out-for-austerity-finally-stand-up-to-be-counted-30701456.html

FreudianSlippers · 30-10-2014 4:08pm

SameDiff wrote: »

....as I said anyone who opposes will be shouted down. Q.E.D.

Google "Poll Tax Riots" a.k.a. the community charge (bells ringing yet?), it cost Thatcher her career.

I'm not shouting anyone down. You made the claim, you support it.

hmmm · 30-10-2014 4:15pm

We're borrowing about 8 billion a year, so to answer the OP's question we're not paying for water and instead we're passing the bill onto our children.

hmmm · 30-10-2014 4:17pm

SameDiff wrote: »

Last thing Kenny wants to do is alienate top earners, so it's easier to apply the tax to everybody.

Sure why not simply raise the top tax rate to 90% and completely drive out anyone in this country with a bit of drive and ambition. Someone has to pay for all this "free" stuff that's being demanded, although I don't know why those Irish political parties on the left should be fighting to get property taxes (such as the property tax and water charge) repealed, and instead trying to get those taxes placed on workers income.

If you want to live in a massive house with a massive garden you water every day, why should everyone else have to subsidise your lifestyle?

FREETV · 30-10-2014 4:26pm

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/demand-for-pps-number-risks-putting-information-on-tap-30701460.html

That is why everybody should be out protesting as we already pay and the whole Irish Water is a corrupt sham, the idiots in power do not serve us and haven't a clue, couldn't look after and run a class of children yet are in charge of running the Country for us.
They are only interested in looking after their own vested interests.

seanaway · 30-10-2014 4:28pm

Anybody who doubts where this is going should watch this documentary.

It's long (90mins or so) but *WELL* worth the time.

Have no doubts, IW will be sold off.
http://www.bluegold-worldwaterwars.com/

FREETV · 30-10-2014 4:31pm

seanaway wrote: »

Anybody who doubts where this is going should watch this documentary.

It's long (90mins or so) but *WELL* worth the time.

Have no doubts, IW will be sold off.

You forgot to link the documentary.
I think I know which one you are talking about, probably Blue Gold is it?

BoJack Horseman · 30-10-2014 4:33pm

seanaway wrote: »

Anybody who doubts where this is going should watch this documentary.

It's long (90mins or so) but *WELL* worth the time.

Have no doubts, IW will be sold off.

Might be one day.... might not.
My guess in a decade or so the entity will be split in two & the 'customer supply' side sold off.

FREETV · 30-10-2014 4:33pm

Have no doubts, IW will be sold off.[/QUOTE]

You can take that statement about Irish Water to the Bank.

We must defeat IW and water charges.

BoJack Horseman · 30-10-2014 4:35pm

FREETV wrote: »

We must defeat IW and water charges.

Well, only one party has shown an interest in selling it thus far.

Don't vote for them & it stands a better chance being public.

seanaway · 30-10-2014 4:36pm

FREETV wrote: »

You forgot to link the documentary.
I think I know which one you are talking about, probably Blue Gold is it?

Thanks My boo boo!

http://www.bluegold-worldwaterwars.com/

alastair · 30-10-2014 4:37pm

FREETV wrote: »

Have no doubts, IW will be sold off.

You can take that statement about Irish Water to the Bank.

We must defeat IW and water charges.

So you keep saying. And as mentioned - you'll have your chance to elect a new government in the next general election.

Now - that envisioned coalition who promise to end water charges are again...?

SameDiff · 30-10-2014 4:39pm

hmmm wrote: »

Sure why not simply raise the top tax rate to 90% and completely drive out anyone in this country with a bit of drive and ambition.

There you have it folks!

Q.E.D.

Scofflaw · 30-10-2014 4:45pm

A reminder that when linking videos, you must give a summary of the contents. Otherwise you're very likely wasting your time posting the link - people are not going to watch your "well worth it" hour and a half long video, if they even have access to video content at work or wherever they may be.

moderately,
Scofflaw

creedp · 30-10-2014 5:15pm

hmmm wrote: »

If you want to live in a massive house with a massive garden you water every day, why should everyone else have to subsidise your lifestyle?

I wonder why gardens over an acre in size are not factored in to the value of the house for property tax purposes?

FreudianSlippers · 30-10-2014 5:19pm

SameDiff wrote: »

There you have it folks!

Q.E.D.

I'm still waiting for you to explain how it is "unconstitutional".

Do we already pay for water?

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