Best coppice trees for logs

prints

Hi there, I have 1/3 acre of fairly wet peatland. It's well drained and grows lush grass. I want to plant it with trees with a view to harvesting firewood in the future. I was wondering what varieties would be best to use.
I was thinking of mixing alder, willow and maybe silver birch as they all do well locally. Most of what I read on the net is about willow for biomass, but I want logs for my stove.
Also any advice about stocking rates, planting tips and sources of saplings greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance

_Brian

Popular is worth looking at too.

prints

Ya, poplar seem to grow very fast too in wet ground. I wonder which trees score highest considering speed of growth, coppice success, hardiness in marginal land and quality of firewood. Also, I read that the different strains used makes a big difference with willow.

Oldtree

I'd be more inclined to go with willow on wet ground (and have ) a third of an acre isn't going to give a huge return of firewood, is that just the start?

prints

Thanks for the reply oldtree. The 1/3 acre would be just a start. I have a few acres and would like to have enough to provide all my own firewood eventually. The rest is the land is better although still not great. Does willow make for good logs? Also would it be wise to use a local variety for cuttings?

gozunda

prints wrote: »

Thanks for the reply oldtree. The 1/3 acre would be just a start. I have a few acres and would like to have enough to provide all my own firewood eventually. The rest is the land is better although still not great. Does willow make for good logs? Also would it be wise to use a local variety for cuttings?

Coppiced willow will provide handy size logs on a 3-4 year cycle. Easy to cut and dry. Once properly dried they make good fuel for stoves etc. it is very easy to take willow cuttings especially if you already have willow trees on the land. Look for good growth and healthy specimens to take cuttings from. The advantages of taking your own cuttings for planting include:

Willow Variety is likley acclimatised to your area and / or soil type providing easy establiment and good growth rates

Best to avoid brining in disease / pests

Your own sourced cuttings are free

If you need replacement trees - you have a ready available source.

I have grown willow for many years for fuel and found it very good.

prints

Thanks gozunda for the informative post. I'm planning on taking 70cm cuttings in December and planting them 25cm deep 1m apart. The rows 1.5 m apart. Wondering is that a good plan? Also was wondering how much land (roughly) would provide enough wood on an ongoing basis?

gozunda

prints wrote: »

Thanks gozunda for the informative post. I'm planning on taking 70cm cuttings in December and planting them 25cm deep 1m apart. The rows 1.5 m apart. Wondering is that a good plan? Also was wondering how much land (roughly) would provide enough wood on an ongoing basis?

No worries

Depending on ground cover and depth of soil of area to be planted I take cuttings to between 30 - 60 cm. I place cuttings as deep as possible depending on the above. My location is also quite windy and any taller than this and the cuttings can suffer from wind movement and fail to establish.

Make sure to take cuttings that have an eye or bud at each end and plant right way up as well.

For wood production I would go for spacing about 80 cm apart min. You can go for wider for access / if you wish to control grass weeds by grazing etc once cuttings have rooted and are reasonably mature.

I have found that planting of cuttings is best done February or March making sure to avoid periods of frost / when the ground is frozen. Any cuttings that havn't taken by late spring can be easily identified and the spot marked for replacement cuttings.

prints

Thanks for the reply. Is grass/weed growth a problem in the first year? How is that best managed ?

Also how much wood would I expect to harvest? (how much more land should I plan on planting in future?)

Thanks again

gozunda

prints wrote: »

Thanks for the reply. Is grass/weed growth a problem in the first year? How is that best managed ?

Also how much wood would I expect to harvest? (how much more land should I plan on planting in future?)

Thanks again

Weed / grass growth can be a big issue whilst cuttings are becoming established.

If possible have the area to be planted cut / strimmed / bare to give cuttings the best change - after that it's a case of managing growth to favour tree growth.

I have seen williw plantations that have used mulch / ground cover fabric to control grass & weeds. ground cover fabric can be expensive. Organic Ground cover mixtures of straw / shredded paper / other can cause nitrogen to become unavailable to plants but will eventually rot down.

The amount of wood harvesting potential depends on many factors including species, soil type and management. For domestic use and On a conservative basis I would reconmebd a minimun planting of 3 acres to allow you to rotate harvesting of coppiced willow. Once coppiced the tree will need approx 3 years to return the next crop. With 3 acres you will have an acre a year of wood to harvest which in my experience will give an adequate amount for ordinary domestic use. Expand acerage if you will he fully dependent on your own wood fuel resources.

You havn't said how you are going to use the wood for fuel? Open fire, stove, biomass boiler? All vary in terms of quantity input to heat output.

prints

I have a wood burning stove with a thermosyphon back boiler on an easy flow coil tank. This heats the whole house and radiators upstairs. It also provides hot water. The stove is an esse iron heart. It can take logs at 50 cm length.
The house is 5 years old and is very well insulated and I get a lot of passive heat so I burn less than a lot of older homes would.
This year I lit my first fire two weeks ago. The house is too hot if I light the fire every day at the moment.

That's why I want to plant trees that can be harvested by myself for logs and not for biomass etc.
How do you use/harvest/dry your willow?

Oldtree

I stuck 3 foot rods into the ground and let them off, no grass maintainance other than to ensure once a year coming into winter that the grass is not leaning on the stem (prevents stem breakage if there is snow). With an annual pruning to get a nice single stem until I can't reach the side shoots anymore. I plan on a 10 year rotation with about a half acre per year (more if poss) with 1.5-2 meters between stems to get a reasonable sized stem (log).

prints

Thanks oldtree. That would mean roughly 5 acres in your rotation. I could build up to that myself.
Have you harvested any yet? What kind of yield would you expect when it gets up and running? Is it measured in tons/ cords/ sq m?

Oldtree

I havnt harvested yet, but have grown individual trees at the location from rods and rooted cuttings to get an idea of growth.

I don't weed kill the grass as that is more a forestry thing and I consider the grass roots and important part of the soil "structure" (if you will) that helps prevent the trees blowing over on a windy site in the early years.

ford2600

I don't coppice, but have a lot of wild willow, very nice underrated firewood, dries readily and burns well.
Alder grows well but doesn't burn well on it's own in my experience.

gozunda

Regarding Coppice - weed /grass control can be more of an issue compared to growing standards especially during establishment stages. There are a couple of commercial operations up and running around the country that may be of interest to investigate to get an idea.

prints

I was hoping to pollard eventually as that would allow sheep to graze the land and protect the regrowth. Was thinking it would be a great way of controlling grass and weeds. Can willow be dried in a season (say cut in January, dry out till October, use from November on)?

Oldtree

I have dried wood in a season but it requires a lot of work. I split the rings as soon as I get them to the house in the winter and pile up against the house on tarmac. Then when the weather gets good I spread them out on the tarmac and turn 3-4 times over the summer (maby once a month) then as the weather turns I repile against the house and cover with a tarp, removing it on dry days. Bone dry then esp this year. But it is best to allow 2 full seasons to dry and much less work too.

gozunda

prints wrote: »

I was hoping to pollard eventually as that would allow sheep to graze the land and protect the regrowth. Was thinking it would be a great way of controlling grass and weeds. Can willow be dried in a season (say cut in January, dry out till October, use from November on)?

With coppice - the cut wood lengths are handy enough diameter to dry in a season. I do this in a proper wood store ie covered with ends open to allow cross flow of wind to aid drying. Pollarding and coppicing will allow grazing but remember sheep will strip bark if they get the chance. Do you fancy keeping a flock of geese? - they are great for keeping down grass and most weeds.

prints

That's one of the great advantages with coppice/ pollard - you don't have to split the logs as they are thin compared to standard logs. Good to hear they can dry in a season too as it simplifies the process a bit.
I have a small flock of sheep already. They can be severe on hedges and trees leaves. Anything within reach is eaten. Not so much with the bark though. I think that's more of a goat problem.

I have a few young and established trees among the sheep.They haven't killed any of them yet but i tend to under stock so they arent too hungry. Maybe a short run among the trees- say a week in April, June and August might strike a good balance.

Don't know anything about keeping geese. We have plenty of foxes and pine martins here. Wouldn't fancy having to let them in and out every night.

gozunda

prints wrote: »

That's one of the great advantages with coppice/ pollard - you don't have to split the logs as they are thin compared to standard logs. Good to hear they can dry in a season too as it simplifies the process a bit.
I have a small flock of sheep already. They can be severe on hedges and trees leaves. Anything within reach is eaten. Not so much with the bark though. I think that's more of a goat problem.

I have a few young and established trees among the sheep.They haven't killed any of them yet but i tend to under stock so they arent too hungry. Maybe a short run among the trees- say a week in April, June and August might strike a good balance.

Don't know anything about keeping geese. We have plenty of foxes and pine martins here. Wouldn't fancy having to let them in and out every night.

Agree about the smaller logs - easier to handle and great for stoves. Flocks of Geese were traditionally used to keep down weeds and grass in apple orchards. In my experience they are very hardy but you will need to have a market for them as they will breed each year. Just a thought anyway.

Oldtree

Smaller twigs burn quicker too as they are not as dense so you have to keep stuffing them in, which is why I didn't go for rod production.

I worked out what I would need based on under 2 trees (10 year olds) per night, so about 300 per winter should cover it, based on actual wood used. I am planting rooted cuttings of poplar and willow on the better ground as the rods don't do as well there, maby because it is drier.

I do not intend to stop at 5 acres, as I have about 8 that I can plant, that will allow a lot of leeway later on or if something should go wrong. Also at the moment you need a felling licence for trees over 10 year old, but this is being addressed in the new forestry bill.

prints

8 acres sounds like more than enough. Have you looked at thewillowbank.com. They claim that 750sqm can produce 5 tons of dry wood every 5 years. Or 1 ton every year if the harvest is staggered.

Considering an acre is roughly 4000sqm, that's a lot of dry wood per acre per year if managed efficiently. 5 1/3 dry tons per acre per year.

Let's say they are overly optimistic by a factor of 2, that's still over 2.5 tons of dry wood per year per acre.

I burn around 1.5 tons of smokeless coal per year at the moment. Anyone know what dry weight of wood (willow) would be equivalent? I imagine the volume would be much greater but not necessarily the weight ( say three buckets of logs vs one bucket coal both at 10kg).
Thanks for the replies

prints

Thewillowbank.com claim that you could fit 2,667 plants per acre. This is done by spacing the plants 1m apart in rows 1.5m apart.
That's 1.5 sqm per plant.
If an acre has 4,000sqm then the sums seem to stack up.

I still find it hard to see an acre producing that much wood though

gozunda

prints wrote: »

Thewillowbank.com claim that you could fit 2,667 plants per acre. This is done by spacing the plants 1m apart in rows 1.5m apart.
That's 1.5 sqm per plant.
If an acre has 4,000sqm then the sums seem to stack up.

I still find it hard to see an acre producing that much wood though

For coppicing on a three year rotation 3 acres will easily provide enough wood for a household throughout the year. On a three year willow coppice I harvest logs between 6 - 10 inches in diameter. Definitely not twigs by any manner of means. Easy to dry and handle. I tend to go for close to the density of trees per acres that you indicated as it allows for better access and better growth rates imo. However Growth does depend on soil and yearly growth rates. As copice is always cut on less than a 10 year cycle there did not appear to be any issues with felling. I would suggest to go ahead and do a trial using local varieties to see what growth rates and harvest volume you can achieve.

prints

Thanks for that gozunda. I reckon I could judge it as time passes. If they were good at three or four years, I could harvest then.
I'm going to go ahead and plant two parcels hopefully totalling .5 acres. I'll use cuttings from vigorous local plants.

Not relevant to me yet, but im interested to know how you harvest/ handle the trees and cut them into lengths?

Thanks again for all the info

Oldtree

The girth growth in your coppice will also depend on the closness of the plantings, the closer the planting the thinner the rods. Typical rotations depend on the species and the end product required with a typical rotation being around 5-15 years, with up to 30-35 years possible too.

I read this interesting pamphlet years ago, after visiting a sweet chestnut coppice in the uk.

http://www.forestry.gov.uk/pdf/Rin259.pdf/$FILE/Rin259.pdf

Edit:

and this one is interesting too

http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/media/migration/ruralenvironment/environment/bioenergyscheme/WillowBestPracticeManual190913.pdf

We had a chat recently about needing a licence for felling the second rotation (or third) of a coppice that would take you over year 10 and therefore then needing a felling licence under current legislation:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=91296059

gozunda

Not quite the same but there is an interesting article on best practice for short rotation coppicing (SRC) of willow for bio energy scheme here

http://www.teagasc.ie/energy/grants_schemes/archive/BESTPRACTICEMANUALFORSRCWILLOW_2009_.pdf

The article looks at rotations over a 3-4 year cycle with a life span of the planted willow of approx 25 years.

My willow plantations are now in their 11th year and I have successfully harvested approx every 3 or 4 years since planting.

Some of the rest of the info may be relevant for copicing for domestic fuel as well eg pest & diseases etc

It is of note that this Teagasc article states (Section 12) that SRC of willow does not fall under the remit of the 1946 Forestry Act.

Section 14 again states "SRC willow does not fall under the remit of the 1946 Forestry Act, and is therefore not subject to the felling and replanting requirements"

In the 1946 Forestry Act - Section 2 Definitions states

"the word “tree” does not include any hazel, apple, plum, damson, pear or cherry tree grown for the value of its fruit or any ozier, "

From this looks like Teagasc have taken Ozier/ Osier / Willow as copice being exempt from felling licence. ...

As for handling - the coppice branches are cut by chainsaw / bow saw (if awkward) then transported back to the yard where they would be left for several weeks before cutting to lengths (depending on weather) and then stacked and stored in a covered timber store open at each side to allow windflow and drying.

Oldtree

It is defenitely currently a confusing area.

Osier/Ozier means willow rods produced for basket making, not firewood , but there may be a specific derogation from a felling licence for members of the Bioenergy scheme, (or other schemes) where it is officially recognised by an application to join the scheme that a plantation is exempt SRC. That is not made specifically clear here and it cannot be assumed to be a general free for all statement with no offical documentation from the Depatment saying it is so.

However, it is clear that this issue is being address in the new Forestry Bill 2013 stating as exempted trees

Section 19 (j) of the willow or poplar species planted and maintained solely for fuel under a short rotation coppice.

so the issue will hopefully soon become mute.

gozunda

Prints - if you have any concern re a felling licence and coppicing contact your local forestry inspector. For my own setup I had it confirmed that there is no current requirement as per existing regulations. If in any doubt, give a shout ...

Oldtree

That's good advice, don't rely on hearsay

gozunda

Prints - have Pm'd you ...