Snipe maybe taken off quarry list

OpenYourEyes

If all of the other breeding birds that rely on similar habitat to Snipe are declining, then it's hardly surprising that breeding Snipe are declining too? If anything I'm shocked that the decline isn't more than 30%!

There's a big difference between breeding numbers and wintering numbers (i.e. the birds we're seeing now). Also I'd suggest that we may be seeing greater concentrations of certain species at the moment due to the lack of rain this year to date - plenty of places around me that are usually full of waders, wigeon, teal etc at this time of the year are still bone dry.

And most BWI staff and other conservationists are very pragmatic when it comes to the value of hunting - there's great work being done to conserve Red Grouse in Ireland thanks to hunters, and the Grey Partridge project could not be run without gamekeepers and hunting organistations amongst others, and is having great knock-on benefits for other species of conservation concern that aren't on the quarry list. Some of the best conservationists I have met and worked with enjoy a bit of hunting and don't shy away from the need for control of foxes, crows etc. where it is needed.

If conservationists and hunters (and farmers) could work together more in this country to do the things that several posters suggested earlier in this thread, we could achieve great things that work in everyones best interests - conservationists would be happy to reverse the decline of our bird species, hunters would be delighted to have plenty of birds to shoot and know that there'll be plenty next year and the year after too, and farmers could be paid appropriately to manage their land in a different, less-intensive way - these are win/win/win scenarios that we have all of the information and power to do, but we aren't doing at the moment, which is very frustrating.

snipey

blackpearl wrote: »

SNIPEY why would I get on to you I trial dogs myself and have to agree with you about the grouse because without them setter and pointer trials would come to an end .

I just thought you were kind of coming across a bit like you wanted to shoot every thing you came across, but since you trial dogs you must see where alot of posters are coming from, and what about the joy of watching dog's work.

blackpearl

CAPERCAILLE you said shooting was not the problem with the corncrake are you saying shooting is a problem with snipe .

blackpearl

snipey we canot as hunters be seen to back down on issues that effect our hunting and the hunting of our children who come after us.look what we got for not standing up for other things in this country taxed to the hilt,belive me if we do not stand up to these people in Europe we will be left with no hunting'

useurowname

blackpearl wrote: »

snipey we canot as hunters be seen to back down on issues that effect our hunting and the hunting of our children who come after us.look what we got for not standing up for other things in this country taxed to the hilt,belive me if we do not stand up to these people in Europe we will be left with no hunting'

If we don't get serious about conserving more of our quarry there ain't gonna be much for our children to hunt anyway..priority should be the welfare of the quarry, no game, no sport.

270WIN

capercaille..what have corncrakes got to do with this thread?? Sensationalism?
Wetland destruction was their problem and could be the snipe problem eventually but NOT shooting.
(i recall a post from you last year where you wanted ideas on draining a 6 acre piece of land you owned) How many snipe lost out there?? Most lads on this forum here that shoot a few birds for the table..love their hunting and especially love watching dogs do their thing.
As for a curlew survey..why would i do one ....IMO not worth the paper tis written on. I've never shot a curlew but couldnt care less where he was born..place is still full of em..all the same to me, they all look the same

I,m outta here..best of luck to all genuine shooting men next Sat..

OpenYourEyes

blackpearl wrote: »

snipey we canot as hunters be seen to back down on issues that effect our hunting and the hunting of our children who come after us.look what we got for not standing up for other things in this country taxed to the hilt,belive me if we do not stand up to these people in Europe we will be left with no hunting'

The biggest issues that affect hunting are the number of huntable birds - the thing we shouldn't be backing down to is habitat loss, because thats the single biggest thing that will affect hunting into the future - if the habitat is gone, there'll be no breeding birds, and that means no birds in the shooting season, and that means no hunting, whether the EU stops it or not.

Hunting is recognised as a legitimate activity in the EU Birds Directive and by most conservation organisations (certainly the Birdlife ones), and that will never change.

OpenYourEyes

Jesus lads, I think Capercaillie was just pointing out that it wasn't too long ago in Ireland that there were plenty of a certain bird species in Ireland (i.e. Corncrake), and that people always thought there'd be plenty of them everywhere - but things changed very rapidly and now we have barely any.

The point that the decline of certain bird species is often rapid and unexpected still stands, whether it's a bird that was shot or not.

Capercaille

270WIN wrote: »

,the country is full of snipe and they will be here in huge numbers long after we are all dead and gone...i hope my young fellas get a chance to shoot a few!!
.

Just because you think the Country is full of Snipe, doesn't mean it will always (no matter what habitat damage done) be full of snipe. The Corncrake was an analogy.

blackpearl wrote: »

CAPERCAILLE you said shooting was not the problem with the corncrake are you saying shooting is a problem with snipe .

Never said hunting was the main problem. I have no objection in hunting snipe with limited bags. I would have a problem with people going out shooting 15-20 birds a day.

270WIN wrote: »

capercaille..what have corncrakes got to do with this thread?? Sensationalism?
Wetland destruction was their problem and could be the snipe problem eventually but NOT shooting.
(i recall a post from you last year where you wanted ideas on draining a 6 acre piece of land you owned) How many snipe lost out there?? Most lads on this forum here that shoot a few birds for the table..love their hunting and especially love watching dogs do their thing.
.

I manage my farm for Corncrake. Sowing of early cover plants like nettle/iris/umbellifer. Mowing meadows in mid-September (first cut). Draining the 6 acres would increase the land available for Corncrake.

OpenYourEyes

270WIN wrote: »

As for a curlew survey..why would i do one ....IMO not worth the paper tis written on. I've never shot a curlew but couldnt care less where he was born..place is still full of em..all the same to me, they all look the same
.

The point is that the big numbers of Curlew that arrive here from other countries in winter masks the fact that Irish breeding Curlew are declining. And if we look at the reasons that Irish breeding Curlew are declining, the same problems exist in most other countries, so the overall European population is likely to drop in the coming years. If the world population drops rapidly we'll soon see declines in wintering Curlew here too.

All of this keeps coming back to making sure that there are enough of a given species around so that they can be shot by whoever wants to over the winter and they will know that there'll be enough to shoot the following winter, and for their kids to shoot in several winters to come. So thats why we should care where the bird was born (or not born) - so we know where we need to put in the work to make sure that there are birds to shoot in the future.

snipey

Blackpearl i agree with you but all i'm saying why shoot so many birds in the one day and not leave them for another day, if every just took a couple of birds there would be no need to take the likes of snipe from the quarry list, but we are where we are and it's conservation we need, as in stopping the cutting of our bogs etc.

blackpearl

for talk sake snipey on a full days shooting 3 pheasants ,2 woodcock,4 snipe 2mallard a teal and a couple of pidgeon and a rabbit or 2 would you call that over shooting if so this hunting forum has lost the plot ,o by the way in the off season 50 or so grey crows and magpies
20 foxes and about 5 mink.i have had enough of this thread,only a handful of real hunters on here good luck to you.

allan450

blackpearl wrote: »

for talk sake snipey on a full days shooting 3 pheasants ,2 woodcock,4 snipe 2mallard a teal and a couple of pidgeon and a rabbit or 2 would you call that over shooting if so this hunting forum has lost the plot ,o by the way in the off season 50 or so grey crows and magpies
20 foxes and about 5 mink.i have had enough of this thread,only a handful of real hunters on here good luck to you.

where i am that would be a bad day hunting.:P

Birdnuts

I think we're all getting a bit worked up over nothing. There is no suggestion that snipe will be taken off the list anytime soon and nobody is claiming that any dip in the numbers is down to shooting. In any case the numbers of wintering snipe is actually up. We can help the breeding numbers too by submitting our own records(many parts of the country are not adequately covered by observers, especially compared to the UK) and encouraging farmers and other landowners on whose land we have permissions to spare habitat where possible and encourage them to enter as many agri-environment schemes as is reasonable. There's meant to be a new farming REPS type scheme out next year targeting the likes of Curlew etc. so its important that all who care about these matters make the most of such opportunities.

Capercaille

allan450 wrote: »

where i am that would be a bad day hunting.:P

That would be a decent amount I would think. What would your bags of snipe be?

snipey

i'm with you on the grey crows,foxes,and magpies and i wish more people would do the same but they don't, they just go out on the first and complain that's there's no birds.that my twopence.

Remember me?

In relation to curlew I meet them in a place I hunt nearly every time I go in there . And I have seen up on 20 at any one time .When were they put on the protected list I never even knew they were being shot !

welsummer

blackpearl wrote: »

snipey we canot as hunters be seen to back down on issues that effect our hunting and the hunting of our children who come after us.look what we got for not standing up for other things in this country taxed to the hilt,belive me if we do not stand up to these people in Europe we will be left with no hunting'

well that's a statement. talking about your head well done into the sand and you arse up in the air.

blackpearl

thanks very much welsummer much appreciated,its good to have a nice comment directed at me for a change,spare a little taught for the pheasant the last supper tonight and of to bed for the last time for a good few of them, safe hunting tomorrow lads.

welsummer

And go easy on the snipe

Straffan1979

I think I'd be in favour of a shortening of the season to Dec/Jan for snipe and possibly woodcock. This would allow for a greater build up of migrant birds and much less pressure on the residents as they'd be a lot less likely to be shot. It would also give them a chance to recover from the journey south.
I'm living in the south west of Ireland and to be honest there won't be too many I know shooting woodcock for the next couple of weeks anyway-they're thin and don't fly far in my experience so it's sort of happening anyway.

ace86

Straffan1979 wrote: »

I think I'd be in favour of a shortening of the season to Dec/Jan for snipe and possibly woodcock. This would allow for a greater build up of migrant birds and much less pressure on the residents as they'd be a lot less likely to be shot. It would also give them a chance to recover from the journey south.
I'm living in the south west of Ireland and to be honest there won't be too many I know shooting woodcock for the next couple of weeks anyway-they're thin and don't fly far in my experience so it's sort of happening anyway.

to be quiet honest you don't get woodcock in great numbers anyway till the end of November start of December anyway so and I think resident birds are very low in my opinion but i would be in favour in having the snipe season the same as the woodcock season and i don't really hunt snipe till now anyway myself.

allan450

i have never seen a resident woodcock in this country.

blackpearl

I had never seen them till a few years ago when I started fishing the midland lakes for trout at dawn seen them on lanes leading up to the lake just before daybreak in the lights of the car,this was in late june early july 2s and 3s was the norm I presume they were resident birds.

snipe49

allan450 wrote: »

i have never seen a resident woodcock in this country.

I put one out while out after rabbits last july.

Capercaille

allan450 wrote: »

i have never seen a resident woodcock in this country.

I've only every seen birds in winter. Woodcock are amber listed in Ireland. Breeding birds have declined by 73% in 40 years.

grassroot1

They are red listed. Where did the 73% decline in 40 years come from I have not heard that before?

Capercaille

grassroot1 wrote: »

They are red listed.

I believe they are amber listed unless they have changed in last year

Where did the 73% decline in 40 years come from I have not heard that before?

Bird atlas 2007-2011

blackpearl

well no harm to them they are looking in the wrong places ,bird atlas I hope they do not belong to some bird watching club if so they have no say on this forum.

Birdnuts

Woodcook are notoriously hard to census given their secretive, often nocturnal activities. I would be a bit wary of making any definitive statement on their numbers based on the usual counting techniques employed for other breeding birds. All I know is that there appears to be good numbers of them about in the late spring in and around young forestry within a wide radius of my small holding in North Mayo and around West Wicklow where I rent for work purposes. AFAIK these remote areas are not visited much(if at all) by atlas counters and certainly not in the late evening or night when the birds are most active