How much is a garden worth to you.

If you were a couple and has two small children and you were give a choice of

(a) A proper family sized apartment with good storage and a playground and park near by, with good public transport etc, in the area you want. It would be more mixed socially as it would have at least 20% social and low income homes.

verses

(b) outer suburban area where you would have a house with your own garden, a green for the children to play on more privacy, a commute to work.

So basically would you be willing to sacrifice a garden to live in your desired area if you had small children.

the_syco

House. You don't have to be with them to keep an eye on them. Also, they can go out to play without having to go far.

smash

With a family, I'd have a house over an apartment. At least you have people just on maybe either side and not on all sides. Plus it means the kids could make friends on the road. In an apartment that wouldn't happen as much.

kneemos

Don't think I've ever seen children playing in their garden.

kneemos

kneemos wrote: »

Don't think I've ever seen children playing in their garden.

Do you watch their back gardens a lot yea

Shakespeare's Sister

kneemos wrote: »

Don't think I've ever seen children playing in their garden.

They're probably playing in the back garden.

House for sure OP. I'd say most will go for house and those who go for apartment might be more likely to be from the European mainland.

Kim Kardashi Un

1. Sell the children
2. Buy the apartment
3. Buy the house

Duggy747

Wouldn't matter to me, I'd keep the brats in cages anyway.

kneemos

bluewolf wrote: »

Do you watch their back gardens a lot yea

Well not since the incident...

But if they're anyway hardy they're generally playing on the local green patch,a park or the road.

But surely Irish people could learn to like family apartment living if the apartment were good enough and you had a playground near by.

Green Mile

I would absolutely pick a house with a garden over an apartment. Think of the BBQs during our 3 day long summer.


Also there’s no maintenance management fees with house owners. You’ll have to fork out a lot per year for apartment maintenance of the premises such as painting halls, lights in corridors etc etc and from what I know, the property management makes a bomb on this and doesn't provide a whole lot in return.

Lalealea

mariaalice wrote: »

If you were a couple and has two small children and you were give a choice of

(a) A proper family sized apartment with good storage and a playground and park near by, with good public transport etc, in the area you want. It would be more mixed socially as it would have at least 20% social and low income homes.

verses

(b) outer suburban area where you would have a house with your own garden, a green for the children to play on more privacy, a commute to work.

So basically would you be willing to sacrifice a garden to live in your desired area if you had small children.

If the apartment has a playground and park nearby I don't think it makes a difference.

Lalealea

Garden's are nice though. But I don't think it makes a huge diff.

The Backwards Man

I couldn't live in a house without at least half an acre with it, kids or no kids. Nowhere to grow my spuds and other vegetables, nowhere to put up a turf shed, nowhere to put up a garage to service my cars, nowhere to let my dog run about, nowhere to sink a well and harvest rainwater.

I'd rather be dead.

PauloMN

mariaalice wrote: »

So basically would you be willing to sacrifice a garden to live in your desired area if you had small children.

House without question. Children don't stay small for long either, so the bolded bit won't be relevant for very long - unless you're only talking about holding on to this property for a short time?

Are you talking about buying or renting?

Also I've never seen what I would consider a proper family apartment in Ireland. Seen plenty on the continent, but apartments are a relatively new concept in Ireland and any I've seen have most definitely not been suitable for families.

Lalealea

The Backwards Man wrote: »

I couldn't live in a house without at least half an acre with it, kids or no kids. Nowhere to grow my spuds and other vegetables, nowhere to put up a turf shed, nowhere to put up a garage to service my cars, nowhere to let my dog run about, nowhere to sink a well and harvest rainwater.

I'd rather be dead.

That's the ideal maybe. But...you can improvise.


You can use an allotment.

And the best tomato I have ever tasted came from ones grown out of a window box.


And i could use my parents garden to grow stuff.


I like your harvesting rainwater idea though.

And living off the land. Feck it lets move to sherwood.

Lalealea

You make do with what you must.

Shakespeare's Sister

mariaalice wrote: »

But surely Irish people could learn to like family apartment living if the apartment were good enough and you had a playground near by.

Apartments aren't built with families in mind here though.

Teyla Emmagan

A million times the house. I have so many friends stuck in apartments with small kids who would give anything for a garden where the kids could play. The old thing of being able to make the dinner while keeping an eye on the kids at the same time. parks are fine but you can't get a few jobs done at the same time. Even having a paddling pool or a sandpit. And apartments have no storage for all the stuff kids need. And if you are home all day with the kids an apartment would drive you mad.

Shenshen

Depends which areas has the better non-denominational schools?

endacl

Apartment for me. House for the kids. I'd allow them monthly access, once they behaved and cleaned up after themselves.

Tokyo

The Backwards Man wrote: »

I couldn't live in a house without at least half an acre with it, kids or no kids. Nowhere to grow my spuds and other vegetables, nowhere to put up a turf shed, nowhere to put up a garage to service my cars, nowhere to let my dog run about, nowhere to sink a well and harvest rainwater.

I'd rather be dead.

A thousand times this. Except change that to 50 acres.

galah

Detached house, always! Even just for the fact that apartments here are ****tily built, so you (and your neighbours) hear everything. (Same goes for estate houses). I'm very glad we dont have neighbours that close so our three year old can have tantrums in peace, and our baby can teethe, without anyone calling social services :P same applies to the invariably noisy toys other people insist on buying your kids

Garden is essential, even on a "sunny spells" day you can go outside and play until it rains, basically popping in and out, you wont do that if it's a trek to the playground/park. And you can teach your kids about gardening, growing things, weeding, garden animals etc - and dont forget the space for the bouncy castle :P

Summer wind

House with garden is always better than an apartment.

Irish Steve

House,

If for no other reason that that right now, even with all the supposed changes, apartments in Ireland are not even close to being suitable for family living. There's no storage for the many items that are part of children's growing up, and in most cases, there's not even enough space for properly storing the now essential 3 different wheelie bins. There are plenty of other issues, and some were mentioned already.

Management companies, they seem to be a nightmare, as is the whole issue of communal services, lights, etc. Then there's the problems of adequate internet, phone, and satellite cabling, water, which will become a much bigger issue as time goes on due to the whole metering scandal, and depending on the nature of construction of the block, there will be issues with heating, you may have to use gas, without the choice of other fuels.

In larger blocks, if there are gates on the area, getting deliveries in and out can be a problem too.

A lot needs to change before apartment living with children will become a viable option in Ireland.

Irish Steve

Irish Steve wrote: »

House,

If for no other reason that that right now, even with all the supposed changes, apartments in Ireland are not even close to being suitable for family living. There's no storage for the many items that are part of children's growing up, and in most cases, there's not even enough space for properly storing the now essential 3 different wheelie bins. There are plenty of other issues, and some were mentioned already.

Management companies, they seem to be a nightmare, as is the whole issue of communal services, lights, etc. Then there's the problems of adequate internet, phone, and satellite cabling, water, which will become a much bigger issue as time goes on due to the whole metering scandal, and depending on the nature of construction of the block, there will be issues with heating, you may have to use gas, without the choice of other fuels.

In larger blocks, if there are gates on the area, getting deliveries in and out can be a problem too.

A lot needs to change before apartment living with children will become a viable option in Ireland.

If all those issue were over come, children are brought up in other countries in apartments.. and it was a proper community and most importantly it was the area where you want to live as opposed to where you could afforded, would anyone else consider it.

PauloMN

mariaalice wrote: »

If all those issue were over come, children are brought up in other countries in apartments.. and it was a proper community and most importantly it was the area where you want to live as opposed to where you could afforded, would anyone else consider it.

People probably would. But this is Ireland, so "proper" doesn't come into it with apartments. The apartments I've been in in France, Germany etc. have storage for bikes, freezers, washing equipment and so on as well as decent fitted storage in each room. In Ireland people put their bikes on the tiny little balconies. I've been in an apartment block in Santry with ample underground parking which is empty. Everyone parks on the road which is crammed with cars. Why? Because cars have been burned out in the underground car park. Same old story with everything in Ireland.

c_man

House with the garden. Plenty of room for the kids to play in, muck around and be coming and going with no bother.

Also a little shed down the bottom of the yard, where I could try my hand at home brewing and maybe growing some stuff for personal use.

the evasion_kid

A suburban house with a garden that would make the front cover of better homes and gardens

iguana

mariaalice wrote: »

If all those issue were over come, children are brought up in other countries in apartments.. and it was a proper community and most importantly it was the area where you want to live as opposed to where you could afforded, would anyone else consider it.

Not me anyway, even the best, most well thought out apartment would never suit my lifestyle. I recently moved, with my nearly 2 year old, from a house with a small concrete garden to one with a great big garden and the difference in our lives is immense. On our very first morning here I opened the backdoor and he ran around squealing with joy while made breakfast. Then after breakfast I washed up while he ran around outside. Then all day I unpacked, painted the kitchen doors, washed floors, etc, while he ran around having great fun.

That would be impossible in an apartment. You can't send a toddler off alone to the complex/nearby playground while you get on with your chores. What happens is they pester you to take them out, they get under your feet while you try to work, you give up as you aren't getting anything done and take them outside. After half an hour you start remembering all you have to do and try to take them home. They cry, which is awful but understandable because of course a small child wants more than a half hour of outside play. Eventually you take them home, you feel guilty for spoiling their fun, you know it wasn't enough for them but you have to get on with things. You go home, they are cranky and still full of energy and every little job you have to do takes longer because your child needs so much of your attention to amuse them.

Sure as things go, that's a first world problem and if an energetic, frustrated toddler getting between you and your housework is the worst of your problems you have it damn good compared to most people to have ever lived. But it is still a problem for both you and the child and it wouldn't be in a house with a garden.

lanos

House for 6 reasons
Pets
Unloading shopping from car
Real open fire
BBQ/shed/kids pool/cutting grass
back yard burning
No rules to observe

fleet_admiral

I currently live in option A, but in a house. We have a tiny front garden thats paved but we have Bushy park and Harolds Cross park within very short walking distance.

RonanP77

When we decided to have a family we bought a house out in the country. The garden is an acre so lots of room to play. Kids need a big garden to run around and play in.

moxin

I live in a detached house with spacious front and back gardens in suburban Dublin, I can only sympathise with families stuck in apartments. Is it really good to raise a kid on the fifth floor? (reminds me of Eric Claptons tragic son)

Donald73

Myself I would probably go for the apartment - just to be different. The commuting time to the suburban area would be my main reason, living in the area you want would presumably mean little or no commute so would give much more time at home.

lanos

donna35 wrote: »

Myself I would probably go for the apartment - just to be different. The commuting time to the suburban area would be my main reason, living in the area you want would presumably mean little or no commute so would give much more time at home.

If I lived in an apartment, I would prefer a long commute, just to spend LESS time at home.

Tarzana2

iguana wrote: »

Not me anyway, even the best, most well thought out apartment would never suit my lifestyle. I recently moved, with my nearly 2 year old, from a house with a small concrete garden to one with a great big garden and the difference in our lives is immense. On our very first morning here I opened the backdoor and he ran around squealing with joy while made breakfast. Then after breakfast I washed up while he ran around outside. Then all day I unpacked, painted the kitchen doors, washed floors, etc, while he ran around having great fun.

That would be impossible in an apartment. You can't send a toddler off alone to the complex/nearby playground while you get on with your chores. What happens is they pester you to take them out, they get under your feet while you try to work, you give up as you aren't getting anything done and take them outside. After half an hour you start remembering all you have to do and try to take them home. They cry, which is awful but understandable because of course a small child wants more than a half hour of outside play. Eventually you take them home, you feel guilty for spoiling their fun, you know it wasn't enough for them but you have to get on with things. You go home, they are cranky and still full of energy and every little job you have to do takes longer because your child needs so much of your attention to amuse them.

Sure as things go, that's a first world problem and if an energetic, frustrated toddler getting between you and your housework is the worst of your problems you have it damn good compared to most people to have ever lived. But it is still a problem for both you and the child and it wouldn't be in a house with a garden.

People in other countries where apartment-dwelling is far more common, have toddlers too. And they seem to manage fine!

boobar

House with garden, I just asked my own kid.

She say's its good.

anncoates

To be honest, our kids rarely elected to play in our back garden (house) and still don't. They like playing out with their friends or going to the park.

People say kids 'need a garden' but I think it's more that the person saying it actually wants a garden.

Lalealea

I think I would prefer Dublin though.

Tarzana2

anncoates wrote: »

To be honest, our kids rarely elected to play in our back garden (house) and still don't. They like playing out with their friends or going to the park.

People say kids 'need a garden' but I think it's more that the person saying it actually wants a garden.

Agree, which is fair enough. But, while people are saying a garden isn't a must but immeasureably improves lifestyle, I'm not at all convinced. Lots of people around the world don't have gardens and raise happy families. In the cities and towns, there are parks, in the countryside, there are abundant fields.

pablo128

The Backwards Man wrote: »

I couldn't live in a house without at least half an acre with it, kids or no kids. Nowhere to grow my spuds and other vegetables, nowhere to put up a turf shed, nowhere to put up a garage to service my cars, nowhere to let my dog run about, nowhere to sink a well and harvest rainwater.

I'd rather be dead.

I would kill for a garage.
I live in an apartment and it is fcuking sh1t. The tramp upstairs with her parties in the early hours and her fella who roars his head off at her during the day, the lack of a back yard, the zero storage, the metal access gate arond the side for upstairs which they slam every fcuking time, I could go on all day. In fairness I do have a front garden with parking for 2 cars, (although I have 3 cars) and a bit of a garden. Unfortunately the little bast@rd upstairs thinks it's his garden and continually runs around it with his friends, until one of us go out and fcuk them out of it. I have 10k worth of tools and a car at my mothers house as I literally have zero space for them.

Now rinse and repeat this scenario every day for 5 years.


Apartment blocks should be burnt to the ground in Ireland.

iguana

Tarzana2 wrote: »

People in other countries where apartment-dwelling is far more common, have toddlers too. And they seem to manage fine!

I know and like I said, it's a first world problem but it is a problem and if you have a toddler, your life will be significantly easier with a garden.

You can also bounce on the trampoline and use their swing when they nap, which is surely the whole point of having kids?!?:p

muddypaws

I think it all depends on what you want, if you are a real inner city person, and enjoy all that goes with it, then a large apartment with the facilities nearby that you describe would suit you perfectly.

I have a friend that lives in London, in a first floor flat, fantastic home, its over 2 floors, and once you're inside, you would think it was a house, except that she doesn't have access to a garden. She now has a 4 year old daughter who is a really busy child, and she would love to have a back garden for her. However, there are a couple of parks very close by, the child is now at playschool 5 mornings a week, so the lack of garden isn't as noticeable as it was. The area they live in is fantastic, great restaurants, pubs, shops, swimming pool, all within walking distance. There are also great schools, she lives in a flat, but it is predominantly houses in the area, that cost a lot of money, hence the good schools. She could move out further and have a house with a garden, but really loves the inner city lifestyle. Parking can be a pain sometimes, having to carry the shopping and all the paraphenalia that goes with having a child also, but everything is a compromise. If she moved further out, there wouldn't be such a wide range of local amenities.

Temper that with my brother who recently moved from a terraced house near a city centre with a very small paved yard to a detached house further out with a huge garden. His 2 year old son is in heaven, and my brother and sis-in-law really enjoyed the BBQs etc during the summer. They have changed from being able to walk into town, to having to drive, find parking etc but are really pleased that they have the garden and extra space, no more parking permits to park outside their own home.

If you move out further OP, you will have the garden, but will you be happy with the suburban lifestyle? Small children are only small for a few years, once they get to a certain age, they'll be going out to play anyway, away from the garden. It really does depend I think on whether you are a city centre person or not, some people are, and can't stand being out in the burbs.

iguana

Tarzana2 wrote: »

Agree, which is fair enough. But, while people are saying a garden isn't a must but immeasureably improves lifestyle, I'm not at all convinced. Lots of people around the world don't have gardens and raise happy families. In the cities and towns, there are parks, in the countryside, there are abundant fields.

Like a large but dwindling number of people, I can't drive. I never learned as I never really needed to. I manage just fine and I'm happy, the same is probably true for most non-drivers. But are you honestly telling me that if learned to drive and bought a car I wouldn't see some improvements to my life? Nothing major, I live in a city suburb so everything I want and need is a few minutes walk away, but in lots of small ways I'm sure my life would benefit from driving. It wouldn't matter too much if it was lashing rain when I planned to go to the shop, for example. That's what having a garden is like. Not absolutely necessary but it improves your life in hundreds of small ways, day by day.

Rasheed

I would lose my sanity if I had to live in an apartment or house that requires me to travel away from my property to see a bit of a communal green.

At the moment I've the sliding doors of the room open and all I can see is green grass, white thorn hedges, smell the turf Fire, hear the cattle muffling in the field and it suits me lovely.

Shenshen

I grew up in an apartment.
I remember when I was very small (4, 5, 6 years old) I would envy my friends who had a garden. Great for playing, and they had so many outdoorsy toys than me and my brothers. We only got to have a garden during the holidays when we would be on my grandparent's old farm.

Fast forward a bit, by the time I was 12 years the situation had reversed completely. I was living in walking distance of the library, the cinema, the swimming pool, the comic book shop, etc. whereas my friends had to constantly pester their parents if they wanted to do anything at all outside the house. And the older we got, the more pronounced that became.

So I think a garden is a great thing to have if you have very small children.
Once they grow up a little, they most likely will prefer living somewhere a bit more interesting.

iguana

Shenshen wrote: »

Fast forward a bit, by the time I was 12 years the situation had reversed completely. I was living in walking distance of the library, the cinema, the swimming pool, the comic book shop, etc. whereas my friends had to constantly pester their parents if they wanted to do anything at all outside the house. And the older we got, the more pronounced that became.

So I think a garden is a great thing to have if you have very small children.
Once they grow up a little, they most likely will prefer living somewhere a bit more interesting.

They aren't mutually exclusive you know. I have a substantial garden within 20 minutes stroll of all of the above and much more. If I had to I'd trade garden size for proximity to amenities as living in the country would drive me as bonkers as living in an apartment but there are happy mediums.

I wouldnt be without my garden, the place space, the vegetable garden, my chickens and geese and stuff, the herbs, and all the things I built on my land. Apartment would not be for me at all.

Shenshen

iguana wrote: »

They aren't mutually exclusive you know. I have a substantial garden within 20 minutes stroll of all of the above and much more. If I had to I'd trade garden size to proximity to amenities as living in the country would drive me as bonkers as living in an apartment but there are happy mediums.

That's lucky indeed, but there wouldn't have been anywhere like this in the town I grew up in. City centre was apartments only, if you wanted a house or even a house with garden it was the suburbs only. Or surrounding villages.
And they were too far away to walk into town.