Good starter PC for my gaming son?

BenEadir

Hi all,

My 14 year old son wants to sell his xBox One and get a gaming PC. We have a 4 year old Dell Inspiron PC at ATM which is grand for Minecraft etc but doesn't have the graphics capability needed to run the more demanding games he wants to play, their names escape me I'm afraid. Far Cry is one I think?

My lad did CoderDojo for a couple of years, has a good interest in IT and is generally good a figuring things out for himself so I'm happy to encourage and help him if I can.

In principle I'm OK with the idea of him flogging his xBox One and put the money towards replacing our aging Win 7 PC with a gaming machine.

He has identified this machine as the one to get - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vibox-4-0GHz-4-0GHz-Quad-Core-Gaming-PC-Computer-8GB-1600GHz-RAM-Windows-8-1/221127252096?rt=nc

Any thoughts? Is it up to the job and good value? We already have a 21" HD screen so no need for a monitor.

Appreciate your thoughts on this as it's a little outside my comfort zone.

Gbear

That PC has a pretty awful graphics card. Don't think the CPU is up to much either.

If you're handy enough and ever used lego you're more than capable of building your own.

You could fill in this form and head over to the PC building forum.

I think you can quite possibly do a lot better for €500/£400.

mememo

I have to agree here the R9 240 is not a gaming card at the lowest you should go for a 750Ti or the r9 260x . Always build yourself with gaming rigs you will save a lot of money and pain in the long run as most prebuild rigs will have bad mother boards and PSUs . I know its not really you buying the thing so if you want to convince your son here is a very good review if the R9 240 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sph6cjJeRdI

Kiith

Moved to PC Building & Upgrading.

Definitely build it yourself. There are quite a few threads here with good pc's for around your budget. Also, if you order the parts on hardwareversand.de, they'll put the whole thing together for you for €20.

doccy

Even if you don't feel confident building it yourself there are a couple of shops (online/adverts.ie) that would put it together far you as part of the cost.

BenEadir

Hilarious video and point very well made. We are a house which understands the difference between price and value very well hence I'm looking for a steer on what represents good value rather than what's a good price.

I'd say we'd be up for a little bit of modding and plug and play component adding if necessary.

I'll have a look over on the PC Building Forum.

Thanks.

Kimbot

Have a look at this thread mate, near the same price range and a few different builds in there.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057312992

BenEadir

Wow, I'm in the PC Building Forum already, as if by magic. Thanks Kilth

OK, so here's my stab at specifying a starter gaming PC for my 14 year old son:-

1. What is your budget? €500 ish

2. What will be the main purpose of the computer? Gaming + general family Internet + Netflix. Games will be Far Cry 3 and the like

3. Do you need a copy of Windows? Yes

4. Can you use any parts from an old computer? No

5. Do you need a monitor? No

5b. If no, what resolution is your current monitor and do you plan to upgrade in the near future? 1920x1080 & No

6. Do you need any of these peripherals? No

7. Are you willing to try overclocking? No

8. How can you pay? Credit Card

9. When are you purchasing? ASAP

10. If you need help building it, where are you based? South Dublin

I'm happy to go the hardwareversand.de route.

Cheers.

BenEadir

jonny24ie wrote: »

Have a look at this thread mate, near the same price range and a few different builds in there.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057312992

Cheers Jonny, I'll have a look at that.

Kimbot

Ok from the other thread here is the AMD Build:

Case: (You can really choose any case at all) €21.17
http://www.hardwareversand.de/en/Midi/102358/Aerocool+V3X+Evil+Blue+Edition+Midi-Tower+-+schwarz+blau%2C+ohne+Netzteil.article

PSU: €49.90
http://www.hardwareversand.de/en/600+-+700+Watts/150977/Corsair+VS+Serie+V650%2C+Non-Modular%2C+80%2B.article

Mainboard: €48.29
http://www.hardwareversand.de/en/DDR3/101592/ASRock+980DE3+U3S3%2C+AM3%2B%2C+ATX.article

CPU: €72.89
http://www.hardwareversand.de/en/Sockel+AM3/68996/AMD+FX-4300+Prozessor%2C+Boxed%2C+Sockel+AM3%2B.article

DVD Drive: €12.24
http://www.hardwareversand.de/en/S-ATA/101094/Samsung+SH-224DB+schwarz.article

RAM 8GB: €66.33
http://www.hardwareversand.de/en/1600+Low+Voltage/125974/8GB-Kit+Crucial+Ballistix+Sport+Series+DDR3-1600%2C+CL9.article

GPU: €103.99
http://www.hardwareversand.de/en/2048+MB/179072/KFA%C2%B2+GeForce+GTX+750+EX+OC%2C+2GB+GDDR5%2C+2x+DVI%2C+HDMI%2C+DisplayPort.article

HDD: €50.87
http://www.hardwareversand.de/en/7200+RPM/62133/WD+Blue+1TB+6Gb%27s.article

Total: €425.68 (This is without using any discount sites)

All you need is a copy of windows and your good to go.

BenEadir

jonny24ie wrote: »

Have a look at this thread mate, near the same price range and a few different builds in there.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057312992

Hi Jonny,

I looked at that thread and put this together based on the two suggestions in the thread. It was only when I completed the selection I realised there isn't a HDD in the mix as the OP said they could use an old HDD.

I guess I could do the same by whipping the 1TB HDD from the old Dell Inspiron. Would that work? I don't want to put an ineffective/slow HDD into a new machine and end up with the HDD being the performance bottle neck.

Does this look suitable? It's bang on the €500 budget give or take but then it doesn't have a HDD!!




Is it worth spending the extra on the i5 given the purpose of the machine or should I go with more or less your original spec and include a 2TB HDD which also comes in at circa €500?

mememo

AMD FX-4300 Prozessor, Boxed, Sockel AM3+ 72.98
http://www.hardwareversand.de/Sockel+AM3/68996/AMD+FX-4300+Prozessor%2C+Boxed%2C+Sockel+AM3%2B.article

MSI 970A-G43, AMD Sockel AM3+, ATX, DDR3 60.89
http://www.hardwareversand.de/DDR3/72465/MSI+970A-G43%2C+AMD+Sockel+AM3%2B%2C+ATX%2C+DDR3.article

8GB-Kit Crucial Ballistix Sport Series DDR3-1600, CL9 66.33
http://www.hardwareversand.de/1600+Low+Voltage/125974/8GB-Kit+Crucial+Ballistix+Sport+Series+DDR3-1600%2C+CL9.article

Aerocool V3X Evil Green Edition Midi-Tower 21.46
http://www.hardwareversand.de/Midi/102357/Aerocool+V3X+Evil+Green+Edition+Midi-Tower+-+schwarz+gr%C3%BCn%2C+ohne+Netzteil.article

XFX Radeon R7 260X Core Edition, 2GB GDDR5, 2x DVI, HDMI, 108.67
http://www.hardwareversand.de/2048+MB/110103/XFX+Radeon+R7+260X+Core+Edition%2C+2GB+GDDR5%2C+2x+DVI%2C+HDMI%2C+DisplayPort.article

Corsair VS Serie V650, Non-Modular, 80+ 49.90
http://www.hardwareversand.de/600+-+700+Watt/150977/Corsair+VS+Serie+V650%2C+Non-Modular%2C+80%2B.article

WD Blue 1TB 6Gb's 50.69
http://www.hardwareversand.de/7200+U+min/62133/WD+Blue+1TB+6Gb%27s.article

LG GH24NS bare schwarz 12.99
http://www.hardwareversand.de/S-ATA/46257/LG+GH24NS+bare+schwarz.article

That comes to 443.91 + 30 for hardwareversand to build it for you and 18.99 for shipping so call it €490 and you still need a copy of windows which you can pick up for around €40 elsewhere

BloodBath

I'd go for this with your budget. You will still need windows though. You said you had windows 7 on a PC already. You would be able to use the key from that on the new PC.

Prices got using geizhals.de for a discount on HWVS.

No need for an i5 for gaming, the i3 will perform identically in the majority of games and much better than the FX4300. Better off putting the extra money into the GPU and getting the 750ti rather than the standard 750.

You have an old HDD as well. Stick that in with the 256gb SSD and you're sorted. An SSD is a must.


Total build cost: €487.74 + €11.99 shipping
Intel Core i3-4150 in-a-Box €99.48
ASRock H81M-HDS, Sockel 1150, mATX €41.87
8GB-Kit Crucial Ballistix Sport Series DDR3-1600, CL9 €63.10
Gigabyte GeForce GTX 750 Ti OC Windforce 2x, 2GB GDDR5, 2x DVI, 2x HDMI €126.67
Cooler Master N200, mATX-mini-Tower, schwarz, ohne Netzteil €32.89
Corsair VS Serie VS450, Non-Modular, 80+ €32.52
Crucial MX100 SSD 256GB (2,5", 7mm) €91.21

Gbear

If you have a fairly big HDD already it's probably a good idea to throw it in to your new PC.

You can never have too much space. There'd be no harm in getting another one as well.

The other alternative would be to get a 60gb Samsung 840 Evo SSD and just use it to install Windows on. It would make the computer run a bit faster.

BenEadir

Thanks guys, great suggestions which I'll do some homework on and talk to my son about over the weekend, it is going to be his PC after all not mine!!

One question ref SSD's. I have a laptop which runs exclusively off an SSD and it's great but I thought the main benefit of an SSD was quick start up (virtually inatant on) Vs waiting for a traditional HDD to spin up but is there a need for that where the PC will be left on 24/7? (I forgot to mention the PC also act's as a DVR for an IP CCTV camera with the video streaming to a NAS via the PC so it's on 24/7)

BloodBath

Concerning SSD's yes. A single HDD in any PC is going to cause serious performance issues. A HDD can only read/write 1 thing at a time and is terrible for random read requests, which games do a lot of, all of which the SSD excels at.

A HDD will grind to a halt over time on a PC with lots of background programs on it as well as they are all often requesting reads/writes which the HDD has to queue up and do 1 at a time.

This can cause terrible loading times and stuttering in games/programs and just generally terrible windows performance.

The SSD can handle random IO requests thousands of times faster than a HDD and sequential read/writes 4-6 times faster than a HDD as well as being able to handle multiple requests at the same time.

That slowdown you get over time on a PC running off of a HDD does not happen with an SSD.

If you want more storage you could go for a 1TB HDD + 120GB SSD combo for around the same money.

BenEadir

Thanks for explaining BB, appreciate it.

BenEadir

Hi guys,

Was away for the long weekend so just getting back to this now.

My son is looking to sell his Xbox Day One edition with kinect and controller, all original cables and original box etc to fund or part fund this gaming PC.

I was just about to post his Xbox One on Adverts and I spotted this gaming PC which the owner has offered in part exchange to someone else loking to sell a similar day one Xbox One - http://www.adverts.ie/desktops/gaming-pc/6723597

It looks pretty good to me and the graphics card look good but then I'm a complete amateur. Would someone mind giving the gaming PC the once over and let me know what you think? Would it make a decent swap for the Xbox One or is buying 2nd hand custom gaming PC's a No No???

BloodBath

You would build something better new to be honest.

BenEadir

Thanks BB. He'll probably get €350 for the Xbox One. Do you think a swap for the gaming PC at that price would be a good deal or should he add €150 to the €350 and purchase a custom PC like the ones suggested earlier in the thread?

BloodBath

Ah right that's not a terrible deal then but I'd still opt for a new build. That processor is a little dated in that PC. A modern dual core would be much better than that old quad.

BenEadir

BloodBath wrote: »

Ah right that's not a terrible deal then but I'd still opt for a new build. That processor is a little dated in that PC. A modern dual core would be much better than that old quad.

Good advice BB, thanks.

BenEadir

I'm back!!!

My young lad has agreed a sale of his Xbox One so with that cash on board and a bit of a Xmas brucie bonus from me for him doing well in school etc and we're finally ready to rock on getting a gaming PC for him for circa €500 per the Spec in post #8 above.

He says he wants to get this guy's spec but a) I don't know if this guy has a clue what he's doing and b) we'll be ordering from http://www.hardwareversand.de so perhaps the $600 spec will turn into an over budget €800 spec when Euro prices are converted.

Would appreciate your thoughts on what spec we should go with from http://www.hardwareversand.de as we'll likely place the order this Sunday.

Cheers.

starvinm

SSD's are very nice to have, your budget is 500, I would not sacrifice power over getting an SSD. Its not like it takes google chrome, Microsoft office take 10 seconds to load on a standard hard drive, they load straight away! Although a tiny tiny percentage faster on an SSD. I have an SSD on my home computer and a normal hard drive on my computer in work with a new I5 processor and to be honest I can barely notice the difference except for Windows boot times.

Don't sacrifice 20% of your budget on an SSD. Nice to have but not a neccesity. Can always add one add a later time.

Cooler Master N200 33.51
Corsair VS Serie VS550 46.63
8GB-Kit Crucial Ballistix 66.45
Intel Core i5-4460 167.19
ASRock H81M-HDS, Sockel 1150, 41.87
ASUS R9270 143
Total 498 euro.

I don't know why people here skimp on power supplies when its something that can be used over and over. I'd definitly go with the above for longeitivy or if you can spend an extra 50 you could get the r9 280. Add and SSD and an updated hard drive down the line.

TerrorFirmer

starvinm wrote: »

I don't know why people here skimp on power supplies when its something that can be used over and over. I'd definitly go with the above for longeitivy or if you can spend an extra 50 you could get the r9 280. Add and SSD and an updated hard drive down the line.

It's not skimping - it's being economical. These days, a 350-400w psu is sufficient for the vast majority of mid-range cards. GTX970, R9 280, etc all run on a 400w PSU fine. If you're building on a €500 budget, I somehow doubt they're going to turn around and upgrade to a €4-500 euro card that requires a 500-600w PSU. Going forward, cards will only get more power economical as well (GTX970 being an excellent example of the direction high performance cards are heading).

Personally, I would include an SSD, because they make a massive difference to everyday use. I would drop the i5 down to an i3 and make room for an SSD, even if only a 32GB one for the OS (only about €35, or 64GB for the OS and a few programmes/most frequently played game at about €60.)

starvinm

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

It's not skimping - it's being economical. These days, a 350-400w psu is sufficient for the vast majority of mid-range cards. GTX970, R9 280, etc all run on a 400w PSU fine. If you're building on a €500 budget, I somehow doubt they're going to turn around and upgrade to a €4-500 euro card that requires a 500-600w PSU. Going forward, cards will only get more power economical as well (GTX970 being an excellent example of the direction high performance cards are heading).

Personally, I would include an SSD, because they make a massive difference to everyday use. I would drop the i5 down to an i3 and make room for an SSD, even if only a 32GB one for the OS (only about €35, or 64GB for the OS and a few programmes/most frequently played game at about €60.)

They don't really make a massive difference for everyday use. Chrome, xbmc, office, skype all work fine on a normal hard drive and you would barely notice the difference.

I still disagree slightly with the power supplies, its better to have 100-150 watts free on it than it running close its max.

TerrorFirmer

A build with an i5 and an R9 270 would not be running 'close to max' on a 400w supply, not even close. The system you've outlined would draw about 250-ish watts under load. Which leaves that headroom you've mentioned, unless you'd prefer 300w headroom for some reason!

To say that there's no real everyday difference between a standard hard drive and an SSD is absolute nonsense.

Once someone has a budget of over about €350 I throw an SSD in there, even if only 32GB for the OS. It makes a huge difference to everyday use.

starvinm

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

A build with an i5 and an R9 270 would not be running 'close to max' on a 400w supply, not even close. The system you've outlined would draw about 250-ish watts under load. Which leaves that headroom you've mentioned, unless you'd prefer 300w headroom for some reason!

To say that there's no real everyday difference between a standard hard drive and an SSD is absolute nonsense.

Once someone has a budget of over about €350 I throw an SSD in there, even if only 32GB for the OS. It makes a huge difference to everyday use.

How does it make a huge difference. It doesn't take chrome 5 seconds to load on a standard hard drive. Its instant loading. Same as other daily tasks

Yes it might only use 300 watts in my build but what if they upgrade to an overclockable cpu down the line and and an r9 290 and overclock that as well.

Lu Tze

starvinm wrote: »

How does it make a huge difference. It doesn't take chrome 5 seconds to load on a standard hard drive. Its instant loading. Same as other daily tasks

Yes it might only use 300 watts in my build but what if they upgrade to an overclockable cpu down the line and and an r9 290 and overclock that as well.

I stuck an SSD into a really crappy laptop (low powered cpu, which was low end 3 years ago when i got it second hand) and it flies now in all the day to day stuff. Ive noticed a huge difference. Girlfriend bought new laptop a couple of months ago, its nowhere near a snappy

BenEadir

Thanks Lads,

Really appreciate the input.

This machine won't be upgraded down the road. It'll be a build and use until it's retired machine (possible put out to grass in a home office for general MS Office type work) so no need to build in future upgradeability.

If I can stretch to it I'd prefer to go with an i5 (or AMD equivalent) level processor and an SSD as there will be a small number of apps which will be constantly used and having an SSD only laptop myself I do appreciate the benefit of them.