Roscrea Limousin Sale

old deere

anyone going on Monday ? would there be good value there or should one wait till the spring?

onyerbikepat

139 bulls. Should be easier buy this time of year, but then you have the extra costs of wintering. Buying this time of year does give the bull plenty of time to settle in and get used to less Weetabix in the morning.;)

Dozer1

hope to go, looking for a young enough bull if I can get one for reasonable money.
looks like some of the bulls on donedeal are entered aswell.

rang one or two of them but I think they are asking too much in the current market, Monday will tell me if I'm right or not

onyerbikepat

Last years sale, Oct 2013 -
"140 bulls saw a clearance rate of 62% with an average price of €3453.28. Prices ranged from €1,800 to €9,600".

Reckon you will get a decent bull for €2.5k, no problem.

old deere

ampertaine commander sired bulls look very impressive ( on paper ) anyone have any experience of using one ?

Dozer1

"Reckon you will get a decent bull for €2.5k, no problem."

if I got a good one for 2K I'd even be happier:D

onyerbikepat

old deere wrote: »

ampertaine commander sired bulls look very impressive ( on paper ) anyone have any experience of using one ?

EFZ, the NCBC bull was by Ampertaine Commander (APM). He got hurt apparently. I have a calf by EFZ and I like the look of her. Very muscular. I notice that NCBC have 2 new tests bulls by commander now, so they must think he is the business.

tanko

45% of the bulls are sired by seven bulls, Wilodge Cerberus (10 bulls), Wilodge Fastrac (9), Wilodge Vantastic (6), Fieldson Alfy (10), Ampertaine Commander (9), Haltcliffe Dancer (8) and Sympa (10).

Mac Taylor

tanko wrote: »

45% of the bulls are sired by seven bulls, Wilodge Cerberus (10 bulls), Wilodge Fastrac (9), Wilodge Vantastic (6), Fieldson Alfy (10), Ampertaine Commander (9), Haltcliffe Dancer (8) and Sympa (10).

If you go back again, wilodge tonka is in back breeding of most of the wilodge Bulls and dancer is sired by sympa!!!

Brass Tag

tanko wrote: »

45% of the bulls are sired by seven bulls, Wilodge Cerberus (10 bulls), Wilodge Fastrac (9), Wilodge Vantastic (6), Fieldson Alfy (10), Ampertaine Commander (9), Haltcliffe Dancer (8) and Sympa (10).

Saw 8 commercial heifers recently at a sale in Gort, sired by Cerberus.
Super heifers. He has poor enough figures for docility though.

towzer2010

old deere wrote: »

ampertaine commander sired bulls look very impressive ( on paper ) anyone have any experience of using one ?

Yes I have 4 calves off EFZ and I would definitely have used him again but unfortunately he's gone.

onyerbikepat wrote: »

EFZ, the NCBC bull was by Ampertaine Commander (APM). He got hurt apparently. I have a calf by EFZ and I like the look of her. Very muscular. I notice that NCBC have 2 new tests bulls by commander now, so they must think he is the business.

Pity about EFZ. Those two test bulls OKH and ZAG look the biz alright so APM must be producing the goods.

onyerbikepat

Mac Taylor wrote: »

If you go back again, wilodge tonka is in back breeding of most of the wilodge Bulls and dancer is sired by sympa!!!

APM's dam is also by Sympa.:D
The gene pool in the limousin breed is getting very small.

tanko

onyerbikepat wrote: »

APM's dam is also by Sympa.:D
The gene pool in the limousin breed is getting very small.

No wonder Sympa straws are €185, would ya chance a few pat?:D

onyerbikepat

tanko wrote: »

No wonder Sympa straws are €185, would ya chance a few pat?:D

They wouldn't want to be repeating at that price.
Just looking at the prices there on the twitter feed from Roscrea sale. Not a bad sale by the looks of things.

orm0nd

reports on twitter

onyerbikepat

Report up now on Irish Limousin;
http://www.irishlimousin.com/html/roscrea_premier_nov_14.html

Kovu

Roscrea Feb 15th Bull sale catalogue now available- http://www.irishlimousin.com/Roscrea_Feb_15_-_140_entries_27.01.15.pdf

Wouldn't mind seeing Lot 12.

onyerbikepat

Anyone going to the LIM bull sale today in Roscrea today? I don't see any twitter feed back on their site. I was hoping to go but cow calving.:rolleyes:

onyerbikepat

Found it direct on twitter. Nothing wrong with that trade.
https://twitter.com/irishlimousin

€28,000 Senior Champion - Kilcor Iceman

orm0nd

Mountscott having a good day

tanko

Cerberus is having a better day.

danjoe

onyerbikepat wrote: »

Anyone going to the LIM bull sale today in Roscrea today? I don't see any twitter feed back on their site. I was hoping to go but cow calving.:rolleyes:

Was there for a short while, show champion was sold for 28,000 a Field son alfy bull

Tornbrook

Has anyone used the Castleview Gazzelle? if so what do you think of him. He is an Ampertain Commander son with Ronick Hawk as the MGS.

I be hopeful of a good heifer calf.

onyerbikepat

Ya Castleview Gazelle is Commander x Ronick Hawk from the G7 cow.
Castleview Casino is Otan from the G7 Cow.

Casino is well proven now so I'd be surprised if Gazelle doesnt turn out to be a good one too.

Kovu

onyerbikepat wrote: »

Ya Castleview Gazelle is Commander x Ronick Hawk from the G7 cow.
Castleview Casino is Otan from the G7 Cow.

Casino is well proven now so I'd be surprised if Gazelle doesnt turn out to be a good one too.

Quite disappointed with a CWI heifer out of a Tarot cow this year, quite narrow across the shoulders and down the back, very level topline from the side however. A heifers calf from RHF is making a show of her in the field!

tanko

I've never used CWI but he has poor figures for docility, daughters milk and width of hips which wouldn't tempt me to use him as a maternal bull. Lots of the ICBF figures are pure rubbish in my opinion, maybe they are in this case?

Has anyone kept any cows off him, if so what are they like?

onyerbikepat

Any one go to the Limousin Sale yesterday ???

tanko

onyerbikepat wrote: »

Any one go to the Limousin Sale yesterday ???

I've never been at a sale in Roscrea anyway. Ampertaine Commander sons seem to be very popular, he must be a serious bull.
I'm thinking about getting some Castleview Gazelle (ZAG) straws. Do you know anything about him?

Edit, just seen your post above.

Tornbrook

tanko wrote: »

I've never been at a sale in Roscrea anyway. Ampertaine Commander sons seem to be very popular, he must be a serious bull.
I'm thinking about getting some Castleview Gazelle (ZAG) straws. Do you know anything about him?

Edit, just seen your post above.

I used him on a PB Limo cow this year, supposed to be easy calving, but I'll know more in Sept!!

votuvant

tanko wrote: »

I've never been at a sale in Roscrea anyway. Ampertaine Commander sons seem to be very popular, he must be a serious bull.
I'm thinking about getting some Castleview Gazelle (ZAG) straws. Do you know anything about him?

Edit, just seen your post above.

Not yet but I've three in calf to him in autumn so I'm just waiting for his stars to drop through the floor like the other "new best thing ever" bulls I've used in the last few years.

annubis

mullary intrepid looks like a smasher on the dovea catalogue, doubt there are any calves off him yet on the ground

tanko

votuvant wrote: »

Not yet but I've three in calf to him in autumn so I'm just waiting for his stars to drop through the floor like the other "new best thing ever" bulls I've used in the last few years.

With the breeding he has behind him I'd be surprised if his eurostar figures drop much but I suppose you never know. Can you say which Bulls you have used that the figures have fallen for?
Mulllary intrepid is a fine looking bull but what will his calving difficulty be like?

votuvant

tanko wrote: »

With the breeding he has behind him I'd be surprised if his eurostar figures drop much but I suppose you never know. Can you say which Bulls you have used that the figures have fallen for?
Mulllary intrepid is a fine looking bull but what will his calving difficulty be like?

I'm just joking really and I know he has a great bloodline. Don't want to derail the thread but its just a general annoyance at the big swings the star rating takes. I think it will be really useful in a few years time but its so unreliable at the moment. I breed all my own replacements and I calf 50/50 spring autumn. I have used a few bulls that went up to but these are the annoying ones:

Last spring I used GWO when he was 4.5* and now he's 2.5* and I used EFZ who dropped from 211 to 180 on the index.

Last Autumn I used ZGH when he was 276 and 5* for maternal and now he's 115 and 2* and I used APZ when he was at 181 and 4* and now he's 95 and 1*.

In reality I don't care all that much because there is more to a heifer than what's on paper and the quality of the calf at weaning is the proof I want but with the new scheme putting such emphasis on the star rating it can be frustrating to see your replacement stock index drop.

tanko

Yeah, I agree with you about the icbf figures. I've been at meetings where reps from icbf and Ai companies when questioned about certain Bulls have admitted that eurostar figures cannot be relied upon unless they have reliability over 95%. I used APZ myself a bit last year, he's not a good bull for Lmx cows anyway, ok for heifers maybe.
However farmers are expected to make breeding decisions on Bulls and replacement heifers on figures with very low reliability.
The problem with eurostars for maternal figures is that by the time a bull is proven with high reliability the straws might be gone.
I'd be careful keeping heifers off Vantastic sons like GWO, you'd want lots of milk in the heifer's mother.

Tornbrook

towzer2010 wrote: »

Yes I have 4 calves off EFZ and I would definitely have used him again but unfortunately he's gone.



Pity about EFZ. Those two test bulls OKH and ZAG look the biz alright so APM must be producing the goods.

I have a PB heifer from ZAG born 1st Oct, super shape really nice animal. Docility is questionable!

tanko

Tornbrook wrote: »

I have a PB heifer from ZAG born 1st Oct, super shape really nice animal. Docility is questionable!

Good to hear quality is good, reports so far seem to be good about ZAG. Have seven cows in calf to him, poor docility is never good tho.

Tornbrook

tanko wrote: »

Good to hear quality is good, reports so far seem to be good about ZAG. Have seven cows in calf to him, poor docility is never good tho.

Went with ADX this time, AI man made a visit in December.

tanko

Tornbrook wrote: »

Went with ADX this time, AI man made a visit in December.

Very popular bull and seems to be breeding great cattle but a bit hard calving from what I've heard. His maternal stars are poor so he's no good for lads trying to breed replacements for the BDGP either.

croot

Tornbrook wrote: »

I have a PB heifer from ZAG born 1st Oct, super shape really nice animal. Docility is questionable!

I don't agree. I have six calves off him this Autumn and all are very quite. Some of these same cows have calved to EFZ and GWO in the past and ZAG is the quietest.

tanko

croot wrote: »

I don't agree. I have six calves off him this Autumn and all are very quite. Some of these same cows have calved to EFZ and GWO in the past and ZAG is the quietest.

That's good to hear, are you happy with the quality of ZAG calves, have they much size to them?

croot

tanko wrote: »

That's good to hear, are you happy with the quality of ZAG calves, have they much size to them?

Yes I like him and have used him again on all the same cows. I have 3 bulls and 3 heifers off him this autumn and they are growing well and I find them all very quiet. I have two GJB and one CZB heifers that are wilder and AA and SH are meant to be quiet.

I think GWO has better growth rates but ZAG is not to far behind. My GWO bulls from last year averaged 400kgs at 10 months so I was very happy with them but the problem with GWO is that you lose on the maternal side and 90% of my autumn calving herd is to maternal bulls.

FeelTheBern

croot wrote: »

Yes I like him and have used him again on all the same cows. I have 3 bulls and 3 heifers off him this autumn and they are growing well and I find them all very quiet. I have two GJB and one CZB heifers that are wilder and AA and SH are meant to be quiet.

I think GWO has better growth rates but ZAG is not to far behind. My GWO bulls from last year averaged 400kgs at 10 months so I was very happy with them but the problem with GWO is that you lose on the maternal side and 90% of my autumn calving herd is to maternal bulls.

Anyone have any updates on how ZAG calves are turning out? Just bought stock bull by him but hard to get sense of how good a bull ZAG is from the ICBF figures. Disappointing that no new ICBF figures this April.

patsy_mccabe

FeelTheBern wrote: »

Anyone have any updates on how ZAG calves are turning out? Just bought stock bull by him but hard to get sense of how good a bull ZAG is from the ICBF figures. Disappointing that no new ICBF figures this April.

I'd have the exact same question about APM, the sire of ZAG.:)

tanko

Anyone going to Roscrea on Monday for a look or even bringing an empty trailer with them?

Grueller

tanko wrote: »

Anyone going to Roscrea on Monday for a look or even bringing an empty trailer with them?

Debating going as I want a limo bull to breed for replacement heifers. I hear there are 173 bulls catalogued. Is this the case? If so there will have to be cheap bulls given that sterling's relative weakness will harm the UK buyers and the poor condition of the beef and dairy trade here.

tanko

Supposed to be 167 bulls, have you ever bought a bull there before?

GiantPencil

Link to catalogue is below: 167 males & 42 females entered
http://irishlimousin.com/Oct_2016_Sale_Roscrea.pdf

barnaman

Assume all genotyped? Most say scored etc but look at lot it says score not included in evaluation? Whats that about? Is it seperate scoring along the line of the letter in today's journal?

Grueller

tanko wrote: »

Supposed to be 167 bulls, have you ever bought a bull there before?

Bought at a blue society sale but not a limousin one.

patsy_mccabe

barnaman wrote: »

Assume all genotyped? Most say scored etc but look at lot it says score not included in evaluation? Whats that about? Is it seperate scoring along the line of the letter in today's journal?

Look up the bull on ICBF, it will tell you if it's Genotyped or not. I imagine they are all genotyped.
'Score not included in evaluation' means that the animal is not linear scored, so no data of the animal directly to include.

patsy_mccabe

tanko wrote: »

Anyone going to Roscrea on Monday for a look or even bringing an empty trailer with them?

Half thinking of going. Just looking at the catalogue there. Would be more interested in a cheap heifer.