Few questions for experienced breeders

ACD

Hi all, I'm hoping I could pick your brains a bit... My girl Amy is expecting puppies, she's just over 6 weeks pregnant and is expecting 6+ pups (she's been scanned) Before anyone asks, both parents are show champions and health tested for breed specific issues.

1. Amy is raw fed, I've increased her daily intake by approx. 20% so far and I've also started to split her meals into 3 smaller portions. Anyway, I've read about not giving bones for the last 2 weeks, in order for her body to start storing calcium. Is that correct? Also I've read different suggestions about how much to feed. Any thoughts on that? I don't want to put unnecessary weight on her, but want to give her enough to sustain her increasing needs if you know what I mean.

2. Whelping box and kit. What do you find to be the best set up for whelping box? I was thinking vet bed with newspapers under it. Would that be ok? Also would she be better off in a spare bedroom on her own with the pups, or should we keep her in a living room with us? We're a quiet household just myself and OH so no major disturbance and also I don't want her to feel "pushed away". But we have a male as well, so will they need to be separated completely, or just in the situations where we won't be able to keep an eye on them? Also to prevent contraction of some diseases, would let's say using a sanitizer of some sort for paws be any good? Or am I overthinking it?

As for whelping kit, I checked these: http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/whelpingkit.htm Is there anything significant missing? What did you find particularly useful?

3. Puppy contracts. I've contracts for both our dogs, unfortunately they're from different country, so not sure if the same could be used here. Would any of you be willing to share yours? If so, could you PM me, I would be most grateful.

4. Recommendations for a good, sturdy puppy pen, heating pads etc are welcomed.

That's about it for starters, sorry about the length I'm also in regular contact with our vet and both breeders of our dogs, was just hoping to get some advice here as well. If you have anything to add, something I didn't think of, please do say, I'm happy for every bit of info I can get

Thank you

DBB

I'm not going to try to advise, but having had the pleasure of meeting the young couple, I just want to wish Amy and Bandi all the very best with their new family

andreac

I had a huge reply typed out but I closed the fecking page by mistake aaahh.

Firstly, congrats on your due litter. Can I ask what breed they are?

I got a whelping box made by a friend, it was a good sized one made from mdf or whatever you call that wood that is easily wiped. I got it made high enough at the sides and with a little door on the front that she could hop over when open but then was high enough when closed that the pups couldn't jump out when older.
I had to put pig rails in mine too as they you need them with the bigger breeds.

I cant comment on the raw as I don't know enough about that.

Stock up on plenty of vet bed, towels and newspaper as you will go through loads and kitchen roll too. Get yourself a good antibacterial spray for the whelping box to clean it out everyday and use on yourself or people that come to visit.

I also used Goats milk when I weaned my pups, cost a bloody fortune but was worth it as they did so well on it, along with their food.
Some of the dog food companies do Puppy packs for free if you use their weaning food.

With my pups, I sent them off with a goody bag that had the likes of a small bag of food to start them off with, treats, toys, info on the breed etc.

If you send me your email address Ill have a look for my contracts and I can send it to you and see what you think. You can really have anything you want in the contract, but just make sure the new owners read it all and know exactly what they are signing and are happy with all the conditions.

I endorsed all my pups, not to be bred from. I told the owners, that once they are hip scored and they scores are satisfactory, that I would lift the endorsement for them. If I remember it was only €13 to place the endorsement on each pup.

If you have any other queries just shout.

Be prepared for a lot of stress, worry and busy weeks ahead of you. My life was practically on hold for 8 weeks so its not a walk in the park. But I had a wonderful litter of 7 puppies, all healthy and no issues, thank god. The birth was an experience and even though I have lots of experience with animals and that, I found it very stressful and worrying. Thankfully I had a friend on the other end of the phone that was able to talk me through things.

Keep us posted anyway!!

andreac

Oh just to add. I had the whelping box in the kitchen, again like you, my house is quiet with only 2 of us in it so there isn't a huge amount of noise.
If you have another dog, just make sure they keep their distance, esp around whelping time as you want her to feel safe and not threatened.

You will be amazed how instinct kicks in and even though they were best of friends she wont like him or her near her once puppies arrive.

My bitch wasn't happy with Cooper anywhere near the whelping box for the first week or so but gradually she relaxed and wasn't too bad. But just never leave them unsupervised just in case.

I had a box full of diff bits for my whelping items, from latex gloves, to scissors, iodine, KY Jelly, Vaseline, weighing scales (to weigh the pups) Milk replacer and bottles, just in case, thermometer etc.

A heat pad will come in handy too. I borrowed one from a friend and my pups loved it. Always lay on it.

You will need to record her temp on the few days shes due. Once you get a drop in temp she will have her pups within 24 hours.

Have some paper, pen etc so you can record times of birth, weights etc.
Get the puppy collars too, they are great esp if you have a breed like mine where they are all the same colour. You can get them on ebay. Here are the ones I used, they are great as they are Velcro and you can adjust them every few days as they grow.

http://www.ebay.ie/itm/12-WhelpIDcollars-Whelping-Puppy-Kitten-ID-Velcro-Collar-Bands-For-Breeders-/251462571898?pt=UK_Home_Garden_Kitchen_Steamers_Cookers_PP&var=&hash=item3a8c56577a

ACD

Thank you Andreac for all the advice, very grateful. Hope it's ok to mention the breed, they are Australian cattledogs, medium sized breed. We are currently stocking up on everything we could possibly need, so hopefully all will be good. Vet will be on call, should anything go wrong, and he will come out afterwards to check on the bitch and pups.

Our pups will be endorsed as well, with the option to lift it should they prove themselves worthy of breeding.
I'll PM you my email address for the contracts.
Thanks again

andreac

Oh wow, love Cattle dogs, they are fab. I met a few over at Discover Dogs at Crufts and fell in love. Was thinking if I had to choose another breed it could prob be them. But just don't know I could offer them enough exercise that they require, being herding/working dogs.

Well feel free to contact me anytime. Ive only ever bred one litter and don't intend to do it again anytime soon, but it was a great experience.

ACD

Yeah, I love them too, such a fantastic breed they are. In terms of exercise, ours get 2 walks a day, morning for about an hour and afternoon about 1 1/2, plus a game of fetch which they absolutely love and a few mins of training and tricks learning thrown into the mix to keep the mind busy as well. It seems to be enough for them, since they're quiet enough while in the house, they usually spend it sleeping on the couch or assisting with household duties, preferably cooking

muddypaws

If you haven't already read it, I can suggest Book of the Bitch as a fantastic source of info.

Best of luck, I'm not an experienced breeder, but have had a few rescue litters born here, and they were enough for me.

ACD

So an update is due, 8 beautiful puppies were born friday/saturday night, Amy's doing fine, pups are drinking/sleeping I have to say, it is a stressful event for all involved, luckily we had a great support in our vet's assistant Sandy, who was talking to us every couple hours over the phone, so a big thanks goes to her, another one to the vet who saw us in the morning, and another to our own vet, who even though he's out of the country, gave us a call to check how's everybody's doing

Here's a picture of the little ones

jimf

omg im in puppy love again I just cant get enough of pups

ya even the bit when mam decides shes no longer on toilet cleaning duty

she looks so happy and contented

DBB

Woohooooo :pac:
Congratulations Amy, daddy Bandi, and Granny and Grandad ACD
They all look fine and healthy ACD!
Does the ACD colouring develop as they get older, or how does it work?

boomerang

It's lovely to see a pic of a litter of puppies and wholeheartedly enjoy the moment. Usually, it's random-bred litters that should never have been born, or a litter being sold purely for profit, at the expense of the poor bitch. We need more people like you, OP! The pups look absolutely gorgeous and so sparkly clean and comfortable! Mum has beautiful colouring.

ACD

Thanks, everyone, they really are amazing, Amy is soooo good with them... Yes DBB, their coloring will come around 2/3 weeks, it looks like we're gonna have 6 blue ones and 2 are uncertain, but they could be red

boomerang

ACD wrote: »

looks like we're gonna have 6 blue ones and 2 are uncertain, but they could be red

There will be pics, right?

ACD

boomerang wrote: »

There will be pics, right?

Of course, I will flood you all with puppy pics

SillyMangoX

They are just adorable!! When their full colour comes in do the darker patches on their heads still stay? I love to see a happy healthy litter of puppies

ACD

Yes, the markings will stay, it's the only way to know what colour the pups will be, black markings mean blue pups, red markings would be red, we have 2 pups with no markings, so my guess is red, but we'll have to wait a bit to know for sure

Raminahobbin

Annnd I've subscribed to the thread congrats OP!! The pups are stunning, I love Australian Cattle Dogs, although I've never had the pleasure of meeting them in person. You must be chuffed to bits with the little bundles

Can't wait to see pics of them as they progress, and especially as their colouring comes in!

aonb

Lovely pics!
What colour is 'dad'?
When I saw the pic of the first puppy - behind the bitches front legs - I thought the colour was 'odd' - what colour do you think it will be? The bitches colouring is fab.

ACD

Dad is blue, that picture was taken few hours after they were born, he had a tint of the greenish stuff that came out of mum despite her best efforts to clean him, he's much more white today He has black markings, so he'll be blue like daddy,

DBB

Hope this is okay ACD!
Here's a pic of dad posted previously

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=89913903&postcount=8554

And some pics of mam and dad
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=89646638&postcount=8475

ferretone

DBB wrote: »

Hope this is okay ACD!
Here's a pic of dad posted previously

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=89913903&postcount=8554

And some pics of mam and dad
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=89646638&postcount=8475

Oh wow! They are so stunning! Can't wait to see pics of the pups as they grow into those amazing looks, in miniature Although they look gorgeous already, of course, as all happy, healthy pups do

ACD

Thank you all for the lovely comments, pups are doing fine, they're all gaining weight,and all they do is sleep and drink Mum is taking such a good care of them... This morning I've noticed she has a small bald patch just above her nose, which I assume is from licking the pups. So far I'm putting vaseline on it, anything else I could do?

ACD

Sooo, a week has passed and puppies have grown considerably, their feet are starting to get darker and some of them are getting a tiny bit of their colouring around their paws...

Things we have learned so far: trimming nails on wriggly puppies is fun ;D ,
puppy smell is gorgeous, trying to study beside the whelping box is hard- not that the pups would be much of a disturbance, but I just have to keep looking at them

aonb

The little 'green' one is still a bit 'green' I'll have that one please

In the 1st photo, the "Purple" one looks like he is sucking the "Red" ones ear:) Maximum cuteness! Keep the photos coming

ACD

One green puppy coming your way



But have to disappoint you, eventually he's gonna look like his father :P

ABajaninCork

ACD wrote: »

One green puppy coming your way

He's mine!!

Dubl07

I was thinking of Green Puppy today while watching Z Nation with radioactive zombies who glowed from phosphorescent bacteria.

mymo

They are gorgeous dogs, please keep the pics coming, I'd love to see the colouring coming in.

jimf

ACD wrote: »

Sooo, a week has passed and puppies have grown considerably, their feet are starting to get darker and some of them are getting a tiny bit of their colouring around their paws...

Things we have learned so far: trimming nails on wriggly puppies is fun ;D ,
puppy smell is gorgeous, trying to study beside the whelping box is hard- not that the pups would be much of a disturbance, but I just have to keep looking at them

mam is doing a brilliant job they are a picture of health

Raminahobbin

That's exactly what I needed to see this morning - little fat happy wriggly puppies looking forward to seeing the colours coming in OP, and the havoc they create for you after their eyes open and they start moving around

DBB

Raminahobbin wrote: »

That's exactly what I needed to see this morning - little fat happy wriggly puppies looking forward to seeing the colours coming in OP, and the havoc they create for you after their eyes open and they start moving around

Lol, I don't think there's anything that can prepare you for the amount of mess they make :pac::pac::pac:
The mop will become surgically attached to one hand, whilst the roll of kitchen towel will be surgically attached to the other

Dubl07

DBB wrote: »

Lol, I don't think there's anything that can prepare you for the amount of mess they make :pac::pac::pac:
The mop will become surgically attached to one hand, whilst the roll of kitchen towel will be surgically attached to the other

If ever there were an image to encourage folks to spay, that's it.

ACD

So another update, puppies have reached their first milestone, most of them have opened their eyes, some of them are making their first attempts to walk (not very successfully yet ) and they have tripled their birth weight from 350-400g, they are now around 1000-1200g. It's amazing how fast they are growing, they'll be running around in no time

aonb

They are so gorgeous - so fat and sleepy - how could you expect those tiny short legs to lift those fat bodies up to walk?!??!?! They are actually quite big puppies arent they - how much approx do they weigh?

ACD

They're around 1200-1300 grams atm, they are wobbling around, but they are getting steadier on their feet, just yesterday it was like 2 steps and bum, today one of the boys was walking around like a pro You'd be surprised how swiftly they move around the whelping box, especially when mum comes to feed them

Lemlin

Strange that this thread is fairly long and nobody has asked your reason for breeding. It's usually a standard question on this forum. Any particular reason for breeding your dogs?

Best of luck with the pups btw. It's great to see they are thriving. Are you going to try them on raw at all or what puppy food do you plan to use?

Nody

Lemlin wrote: »

Strange that this thread is fairly long and nobody has asked your reason for breeding. It's usually a standard question on this forum.

Because the OP has shown they actually breed properly from suitable dogs that have had the appropriate vet controls and standards while ensuring they are doing it responsibly and with knowledge of what's going on rather then "My dog is soooo special that i need to breed her noaw!" or "And I can sell them for a few bobs to make up the cost of buying them, would 5 weeks be old enough to move them on?"

ACD wrote: »

Hi all, I'm hoping I could pick your brains a bit... My girl Amy is expecting puppies, she's just over 6 weeks pregnant and is expecting 6+ pups (she's been scanned) Before anyone asks, both parents are show champions and health tested for breed specific issues.

3. Puppy contracts. I've contracts for both our dogs, unfortunately they're from different country, so not sure if the same could be used here. Would any of you be willing to share yours? If so, could you PM me, I would be most grateful.

That's about it for starters, sorry about the length I'm also in regular contact with our vet and both breeders of our dogs, was just hoping to get some advice here as well. If you have anything to add, something I didn't think of, please do say, I'm happy for every bit of info I can get

ACD

Lemlin wrote: »

Any particular reason for breeding your dogs?

To answer your question, I have to go back to the reason why we chose Australian Cattledogs as a breed in the first place. They are intelligent, easy to train, loyal and versatile, they excel not only in herding, but in many dogs sports and they're often used in search and rescue, in law enforcement as search dogs, and even in canistherapy.

Now why we chose to breed those 2 particular dogs, we need to start with their ancestry. The father's sire is one of the most successful show dogs of his time (3x world champ, 2x euro champ as well as champ of many countries), the father's dam very successful in showing as well. From the mother's side, the dogs were also shown successfully, but worked around cattle as well. All of them were also health tested.

And finally to the parents themselves- both have proved themselves in the show ring (champs), they passed their health testing (hips, elbows, DNA test for PRA and PLL), they have great temperaments and are good pets and from the few occasions where we had the chance to try them on cattle, they still posses strong herding instinct.

So the reason to breed was to preserve the qualities of the breed and pass the genes of the parents and their ancestors onto a new generation, from which we are keeping a puppy of course.

So, hope this sums it up, the decision to breed wasn't based on a single reason, hence the length of my post, hope it answers your question

Oh and the weaning, they will be weaned on raw and the new owners will be given instructions on raw feeding or how to make a transition to a different food should they prefer it.

aonb

Have you chosen which one you are going to keep yet?

How do you wean puppies on to raw? What age will they be able to chew raw? What will you feed them specifically (having only ever weaned puppies on to pappy scrambled eggs/poached fish/type food, I cant imagine what a tiny fat lump of puppy would do with a bit of raw - better food for them of course)

(some more photos would be lovely )

ABajaninCork

Oh yes please! Especially a piccy of my boy Green Puppy!

aonb

ABajaninCork wrote: »

Oh yes please! Especially a piccy of my boy Green Puppy!

excuse me??!?
YOUR Green Puppy?!?!?!?
Have you bought him? Reserved him?
humphhhhh!!!!! :D:D:D

ACD

We have our eyes set on one of the girls, but a final decision won't be made for another few weeks, so we can see how she develops and also her temperament.
So far the pups are thriving, they are all walking around the box and today I saw a first shy attempts to play, most of them are able to pee and poop without mum's help and they are already making an effort to go on the newspaper that we laid for them at the side of the whelping box.Clean puppies they are I think an expansion to puppy pen will be needed soon

As for the weaning, I have a book on raw feeding for puppies, which I found very helpful and used it for both our dogs when they were little, I've also studied other breeders weaning plans, so have a fair idea on what I'll do. We're gonna start with beef mince for the first meals and to see how they'll manage and then we're gonna try stuff like chicken necks (grounded) and some big bones for them to gnaw on and play with. According to the book, they can also have raw egg yolk, and some easily digested veg and fruit, which will be pureed and maybe cooked a bit.

And here's your green puppy, which is already turning a bit blue and the other is the girl we're looking at for keeping.

jimf

adorable and I must say my little green puppy is looking brill I have a name and all picked

ABajaninCork

That's MY boy!! Come to Mummy - she has a nice basket all ready for you, a big brother for you to annoy and a doting Daddy!!!

ACD

Maybe you could agree on joint custody?

mymo

Can I have pink then?

I love the little spot at the base of the tail, can I see a pic?

ACD

There's your pink one, couldn't get him to show his backside , he was a bit too wriggly. He has that spot at the base of his tail after his father, makes him really cute

jimf

little green puppy is going to cause a riot on boards

ABajaninCork

He ain't. It's MY BOY I tell you!

ACD

One more of the pink guy, he's just fallen asleep still attached to the milk bar